Just for reference, here is a pic of the “price list” from Mike Graf’s booth at the 2023 Amateur Trapshooting Association’s Grand:

Attached File


The Grand is obviously a shotgun event, so Mike Graf’s list would be mainly geared toward shotgun powders.  

Somewhere on my phone, I might have  a pic from the price list from my local reloading store (LRS)  that is maybe 4 to 6 months old..

Good point. I"ll probably keep reloading the same brass untill it falls apart.

These days I wont shoot at a range that doesn't let me collect the same amount of brass I walked in with.

While the high prices suck, for those who are serious shooters, just reduce expenses elsewhere, get what you need, and carry on.  No point stopping shooting, but continue to participate in other activities that suck up the money you could reallocate to shooting.  Such as restaurant foods, booze, cigarettes, cable TV you hardly watch, etc.

Yeah that was the situation that put the dust cover on my reloading bench.  More than price it was the: Out, out, out, out.  What's the point of carefully working up a load and trying things when the next time you now need that component it's never to be found again?

I still hang onto my brass because it's habit but I got screwed on timing because just as I started to work out some good loads EVERYTHING dried up and went poof and then it was like a bunch of post-apocalypse zombies fighting over some fresh corpse every time someone had anything in stock.

Here's the point - as a reloader, you are not locked into one recipe or one set of ingredients for anything.

You have brass, so go buy some bullets.  

Buy some primers.  

Buy a new powder advertised to work with your cartridge and bullet.

Open your reloading guide and find a load with your new powder.  

Ask on this forum for guidance with the new powder.  

Load 20 or so rounds of a recipe that seems decent.  <--  You know this part, various charge weights, 0.020" off the lands or mag length.  

Go shooting!  Enjoy it!  Have some fun with your new recipe.

The fun for me is not in the process so much as a great final product.  Each time I found, after a lot of futzing that I didn't really love, a formula that worked well and wanted to stock up on those components they were gone.  Going back to the book and working up another load with new components is the least fun part of the process to me.  So I ended up in a never-ending cycle of working up rather than doing the actual shooting that I enjoyed.  Some of those missing components seemed to be part of what made high-performing ammo for me and so the search felt endless.  So I found the process as it currently exists simply isn't my cup of tea anymore.  I hang onto the equipment because there's no harm in it and maybe someday availability won't feel like haunting garage sales for anything I can actually find again.  I got about 3 years in before it got ugly really so I did get to make some runs of good ammo from it all.  

Problem is I just don't think after this long it really is strictly market forces at play here, i think its deliberate.  That's just my opinion on it.

Lol! It already is!

I use to buy 1# VV to try and was always worried it would outperform everything else because it was so much more expensive. Now it’s the same price as everything else and is much more readily available.

That's about what the junior discount price was in '09.

Well….to Mike Graf’s “defense” you could say, he has to drive from the Ozarks in Missouri with at least 3 trailers of various sizes and weights to the Grand in Sparta, IL.

I think he has like a regular diesel semi-tractor trailer for all the pallets of birdshot he brings.

Then he has an enclosed box trailer for all the wads.

And then he has another trailer for the powder and the primers.

Oh…and I think he has a RV there too, so he camps right next to his trailers.

So if he doesn’t sell out of….wellll…everything at the Grand, then that stuff has to be transported back to the Ozarks.

His CDL drivers have to get paid.

Also, that picture was taken on the second to last day of the Grand, so I would expect the pickin’s to be slim.  He was probably there already for a week to two weeks before I snapped that picture.

Regular Clays powder has been out of stock for everybody since the Ukraine thing started.  The factory up in Canada that was making Clays switched over to making the powder for those 155mm artillery shells.

Here’s his 2022 price list:

Attached File


If you want to compare prices.

Well said and worth repeating sir.


I keep goofy little index cards for each particular round I load with exactly that sort of info on them. Super easy to keep on hand and update as needed and replace when time to keep things neat.

I think the shortest card I have is for my 460 Rowland stuff. Tells me how many bullets (of each type) I have on hand that are suitable for that, number of (suitable) primers on hand, How many and how much in the way of appropriate powders, how many pieces of brass sorted by firings, etc.

Keeping an accurate and easy to look at inventory helps me make darn sure that I don't get stuck in a drought one year with 20k worth of primers and only 3lbs of powder or... 20k in primers, 30lbs of powder and only 200 bullets.  


I 'try' to budget for 'accidents' as well. Those are what I call component purchases that I may not really 'need' any time soon but the price was too good to pass up on.

I have that same perspective on this.  I see no evidence to the contrary.

I went to my local reloading store (LRS)  today.

Here are pics of their price list:

Attached File


Attached File


Attached File

For me it's still the only way to go. I do precision rifle and subs. I have some components for bulk 55g 556 from a trade but reloading ball ammo isn't worth it unless you have a lot of time, components, and no money.

Factory precision ammo usually falls apart at 1k and more yards. 1/2moa factory at 100 has too much vertical at 1000 to consistently hit smaller targets. Not only does it cost less than half almost a third to load precision ammo but it takes less ammo to get hits.

Again with subs you can't buy what I reload. My subs are much more quiet than factory not to mention the 300blk gas reduction from the right powders. So to me reloading isn't about saving money it's about making what can't be bought

As far as cost, it really depends on what you’re loading and when.

.223 and 9mm are about the only calibers that I would say have gotten back to something normal with regard to availability and cost for factory ammo. Everything else I see is at a minimum still over inflated (in part) for availability reasons. Because you can’t necessarily just go pick up a box if you want to. It may or may not be in stock. That situation is improving, but a lot of the calibers that are still fairly popular have zero availability 3 years later. 30-40 Krag is a good example of this. You used to be able to find it just about anywhere that had decent ammo selection. When was the last time you saw .303 British or 6mm Remington in stock?

You can load for most other rifle calibers for considerably less than you can buy it. For example, most 30-06 and 30-30 ammo I see on the shelf somewhere is something like $40 a box. Even online it’s $30 before shipping. Etc. You can load those calibers for less than that, even with the cost increases they’re talking about.

What’s more, you guys remember back in 2020 when people were asking and getting in excess of $1 per round for 9mm ball? It obviously made sense to load it then. Well…..guess what? It’s an election year again. And unlike the other times, ammo hasn’t exactly gotten back to normal from the last go around. The big ammo imports that helped the supply catch back up, and kept the costs down a little, aren’t coming anymore(all that Russian made ammo).

An observation regarding powder along those lines-take a look at where your powder is actually made. Some of those places have started assessing additional restrictions, taxes, and fees on powder exports. As much as I have used, and continue to use Varget, I’m looking for a replacement powder that’s actually made in the US. When I actually started looking, I was a bit surprised at how much of the powder we use is imported.

Something to think about there-all imports of anything fall under complete control of the executive branch of government(the white house). And they can outright ban, restrict, assess tariffs, whatever they want to anything imported into the US.

I am also at the point where I’m trying to develop a few different loads for the calibers I load, so that availability issues with one or two powders won’t put a stop to my loading. I load for a bit of stuff that if you don’t load, you just don’t shoot. Regrettably that list keeps getting longer.

Unfortunately that last thought is expanding beyond what was never factory made to what was available but cannot be found anymore.  I just got in to SR4759 for cast rifle in my milsurps and it got axed.


Powder valley used to be my go to for bulk buys of 4,5, 8 pound canisters.   Their prices are no bargain anymore.   They actually had Varget the other day but it was $50/pound.  The IMR population flavors and the Hodgdon Extreme lines were much much worse.  $69.  

My assessment is we are now in the gouging area as 87% of powder in our nation is owned by just one company.  

I am getting older and frankly I am not all that likely to be doing any major competitive shooting other than a couple random events.  My precision rifle experimentation is just about slowed to a snail’s pace.   Instead of shooting .260 with an extreme powder and Lapua bullets I’ll shoot a .22 hornet and a .32 S&W Long.   $50 for a pound of Bullseye?  lol no. I’ll buy Vihta Vouri first.

Wow, I haven't been in the market for buying powder in any quantities, especially rifle as I haven't been shooting that much. Noticed the price for AR-Comp and decided to take a quick look back in time. Glad I have quite a bit of that on hand, though I need to really build up my TAC inventory even at these prices.

This is an order from 2016.
Attached File

Not even close.  There are calibers that it's not worth the bother, (9mm, 12 gas birdshot etc)  But last month I loaded 200 rounds of .270 for roughly under half what it would have cost commercially.

These prices make me sad.

I’m never going to need to buy powder or primers again in my lifetime, however, I just saw an 8lber of A4350 if buying 48lbs is $54/lb delivered from Grafs and that’s just insane. I spent $35/lb delivered in early 2022 and felt like that was too much.

Most of my TAC stockpile was purchased at $119/8lb shipped. I even sold an 8lber of it and H335 a couple years ago for not much more than that…oops.

I’m a true blue convert.  I wish it came in 8lbs instead 1 and 4 lbs

Looking at my load data, the conversion occurred the beginning of 2012. I also remember selling off all my Titegroup quickly after trialing True Blue and Silhouette. I think I got rid of 6-8 lbs of it.

I really should try powders before going all in on them. I have 34lbs of Titegroup even though I’ve never used it.

Titegroup works well, meters great, has lots of load data, doesn't require much for 9mm, my typical load was 4.2gr for 124 FMJ's, which you've got enough to load 56, 666 rounds worth.


The reason I moved away from it was being a really hot powder.


if you don't like it after trialing it, I am sure with today's current market you could easily make some trades as many people also stick with preferred powders and Titegroup is still very much a popular powder.

I believe that the reason I bought it was for the 10’s of thousands of Zero 124gr bullets I have stashed away so that’s good to know that it works.

I have about the same amount of Universal that I’ve used for 9mm, 40 S&W, and 380ACP for years now so I should be good on handgun powder for a long, long time.

I’ve learned not to sell powder anymore after selling 8lbs of TAC along with 8lbs of H335 plus 5K CCI 400’s for $450 in late 2019…oops.

I'd love to test with True Blue and compare it to HP-38.  I've heard a lot of good things about it from a lot of posters.  

However, its impossible to find it in the past year or so, and I have a TON of HP-38 on hand (over 40lbs at this point).  HP-38 also has worked really good for me over the years.  

I just picked up some Ram Shot Zip for $31.   I will get some more.   Technically speaking, economic rules still apply and the factors that affect economics and prices could change.

There is a world wide shortage of nitrocellulose. It is effecting more than just reloading powders. If you have not seen this BS coming then you have not been paying attention. I am good for another 20 years with the stuff I have been setting back. Only thing I am a little light on is lead. But that is only a trip or two to the range to get it.

Pick up a reloading book or use Hodgon data online for the caliber and bullet weight you have.  
HP-38 or Bullseye can work for 9mm. They’re popular so they might not be available all the time.  

Published data is safest.

I grabbed a 4 pounder of Zip a while back for $100 plus shipping, Haz Mat and tax along with 2 lbs of SW Tactical and a pound of AR Plus for about $28 per). Wish I would have ordered an 8 lb of AR Plus for $203 at the time.  I like the Zip, it is very close to W-231/HP-38.

Which really sucks for me.  Most of all my handgun loads are with Alliant powders.  Guess I'll be doing some workups with alternatives soon...

I think this is their plan.  Our decades-long "discount" for rolling our own washed away most likely through greed.  Of course, they'll cite "supply chain" issues as the reason.

Not for a lot of calibers because factory ammo prices are up as well. Hornady Black in 450B I purchased for $23/20 is now about double.

I had recently sold off an 8LB can of H335 and used another to load up 2K rounds of CQ
m
Ironically I had an 8LB can of H335 in my Bass Pro Christmas special offer cart that had it delivered to store for under $260.00 and cancelled it.
I just got a less than that good a deal from them that gets an 8LB can delivered to store for $275.00 OTD and bought that to be on the safe side.

Not sure if the industry shake down of reloaders will play out like they think. Discounts may negate much of those increases (and a major war eliminate all availability)
But I would rather regret paying too much than regret not having bought what I feel is my minimum safe limit

As for pistols I (being almost 75) and shooting mostly 9MM so V 3N37 has become my preferred powder having 10LBs in reserve and 10 years of 124gr training loaded
I do still shoot 40 (Longshot) and 45 (AA#5-CFE-P). I want all the 3N37 and 350 for my nines

I really like V N140 for 139-150gr 7MM Mauser (again, I am old 8MM getting to be too much and I don't like pussifying a round so prefer strong 7MM I can take than a tone down 8MM)

For accurate, reloaded ammunition, there is still a 50% lower price relative to factory ammo.  

There is also an accuracy advantage for reloading which is sometimes considerable.

In some cases, there is an availability issue.  Many quasi-wildcat cartridges are simply not available or are not readily available in factory ammo.

Just watching several websites I have observed the alternative powder choices with equivalent burn rates of popular powders drying up. AA2460, several shooters world powders, are getting bought up.

One year it’s primers, the next year it’s powder. On the positive side once fired brass will plentiful. Bullets will be easy to find.

I sold an arfcommer a couple packs of rifle powders, then later a brick than another.   He’s great guy but I may be holding on to what I have as I don’t like the replacement costs.  I also didn’t make money on them, He got the price I paid for them a long time ago pre Obama panic.  The old Wolf primers are great for accuracy work.

I can see it working quite well on that scale.

Given the number of Brands and the variety of products found within each, it's a wonder we get what we can.
I didn't notice anyone speaking of "Shooters World" Powders, but of late we've been using their products with excellent results...I really like "Buffalo Rifle" and "Match Rifle"
Decade back there was a shortage that made getting .22's and primers damn near impossible and those that had them wanted insane money, and those that sold for normal prices saw those items flipped for big money...when things came back so to say, I bought a lot more than ever before and now have enough on hand to keep going a long time.

It would be interesting to learn who all the manufacturers there are around the World to see who actually makes what and where it goes:  Lovex makes Shooters World, Hodgdon Powders are mostly made overseas and re-packaged, Alliant "Reloader" Powders are made in Sweden and Switzerland, on and on it goes.

Shortages during covid saw lots of ammunition and supplies come in from places we almost never saw before: Central and South America, Turkey, Asia...

Just came back from Full Circle Reloading with 2 pounds of CFE-Pistol and a pound of H335.  So Hodgson is going up 30% and Alliant 15%.  Varget will now be 67 bucks a pound or thereabouts.  Holy crap.

I picked a horrible time to pick up reloading.  First it was primers were out of stock, now powder is going to go nuts.

I found an old receipt from 1999, 8 pounds of Varget was $117.99

That's what happens when you sell below market.

You would think that after thousands of years humans would have figured this out. But here we are.

The Reloading Center was a great shop.  I used to stop there whenever I needed anything reloading related.  Powder, primers, brass, hulls, wads, presses, dies, scales, gauges, bullets, manuals, scopes,... it was like a candy store for big kids.  I'd either go as I went to or from the shooting ranges or I'd drive up over an extended lunch break.  

I bought my Dillon there.  Really, I bought everything when I first started reloading.  I went in and said, "Tell me what I need?  Then said, "I'll take it." (or something to that effect)



I heard it was either the City or the County of Los Angeles that drove him out of business by changing the regulations pertaining to his business.

That shop was missed, big time, by everyone I knew who was into reloading.  They've been gone a long time but I remember them well.

I've no luck finding either 5744 or Buffalo Rifle for my Savage 10ML. Finally went with V N110 $47/#. That'll last me for my remaining hunting years.

I just bought some AR Comp, N530 and A2520 from Bruno’s. They are running a sale on powders that ends tomorrow before the higher pricing kicks in. I swore I wouldn’t panic buy, but dang it, I can’t help myself.

I'm at the point where I will probably never buy another round of ammo from a store in my lifetime. Probably don't need it and it's been priced out of my comfort range anyways. I'm not worried about 5-10-15 year old carry ammo, it'll go bang just as well as the new stuff if stored properly.

I bought enough Fed HST when it was $400 a K to last me until I croak, it's not ''go to the range and burn it up''  ammo.

If the world gets hotter [and it sure seems like everyone is trying as hard as they can to get it on] it won't get better, legislation makes it even worse.

Based on this thread I started poking around and found a loner at Dillon.

One Powder, One Powder Only

PV sent out their "prices are going up!" email yesterday.

I checked a few places and an 8 lb jug of h335 has already gone from the mid-260s up to the mid 320s.

Insanity.

There's one place I found that hasn't raised the price of h335 yet but if I make an order from them it's going to be very expensive and I'm not sure I want to spend that money right now.