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Posted: 1/13/2016 8:22:35 PM EDT
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So, today I went out and shot some steel cases I reloaded. I was told that these could not be reloaded, so I thought I'd give it a try.
The goal was to see if the loads would shoot without any issues. Trying to get good groups at 100 is another issue for another day. These cases had boxer primers, so I was able to resize them the same as the brass cases. A little more downward force was needed to resize, but they all gaged perfect in my LE Wilson case gage. I then primed them with CCI 500 primers, loaded with 22.6 grains of TAC, 55gr bullet, ~2.22" OAL. Didn't trim, but had to chamfer mouth when I discovered the first bullet was hard going in and got shaved as shown below 
Zeroed my Mueller Speed Shot 1-4x24 red dot with some Wolf gold. Then set up a target at 50 and 100yds. Shot first batch at 50, was pleased with grouping. However, when moving to 100, the dot nearly covered the entire target and things went to hell after that as shown in the pic. 50yds 
100yds....crap! had to be me since I have eye floaters in the left eye and was trying to shoot both eyes open. Went single eye as well and nothing improved. I just don't know what happened. 
Here are the casings. Didn't have any problems with FTF or FTE's and primers look good to me. 
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Wow, Boxer Tula.. all I find here is Berdan..
I started the WOLF thing some 10+ yr ago.. Tacked thread buried somewhere amongst the tacked stuff at top of page.. For most part, straight forward loading, just have to chamfer mouth and touch primer pocket on WOLF, as the red paint make for sharp edge that goof with primer seat.. ned to use quality bullets, not FMJ.. see where it goes |
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Quoted:
Wow, Boxer Tula.. all I find here is Berdan.. I started the WOLF thing some 10+ yr ago.. Tacked thread buried somewhere amongst the tacked stuff at top of page.. For most part, straight forward loading, just have to chamfer mouth and touch primer pocket on WOLF, as the red paint make for sharp edge that goof with primer seat.. ned to use quality bullets, not FMJ.. see where it goes Since you've been doing it for awhile, can you recommend a good bullet that might work with these cases? Not that I'm going to load a ton of them but it would be nice to know what works well. These were bulk 55 grain FMJ from Xtreme bullets. I think I might need to get a different scope as well. My eyes are crap and red dots don't work too well anymore. Minimum 3 by 9 crosshair |
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My mainstay was blasting ammo for our local ARFCOM shoots back then.. the kids was buying WOLF locally at AIM on the cheap, then I gather the empties.. I was just loading them with pulled 55's and 62's on the cheap back then..
Use what bullet you want,, key is to clean case mouth and chamfer the mouth so bullet go in without burr scraping bullet as it go into case.. |
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Dryflash reloads steel on a regular basis I believe. Yes, but he is doing WOLF 7.62x39, which is a BERDAN prime... and using cast lead bullets.. plenty of x39 to found at range, but need to be fairly fresh as in no moisture to start rust from laying out in the yard.. and he has a line on BERDAN primers, and more patience than myself to do that kind of job |
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I load them pretty much like a brass case, same charge of 335-24.5 which is over the top in new hornady manual but not in older ones with a hornady 55 fmj and fed 205 primer, great shooting groups all hover around an 1 - 1 1/2', watch the case necks for cracks, they will crack before anything else happens to the case. Quoted:
Since you've been doing it for awhile, can you recommend a good bullet that might work with these cases? Not that I'm going to load a ton of them but it would be nice to know what works well. These were bulk 55 grain FMJ from Xtreme bullets. I think I might need to get a different scope as well. My eyes are crap and red dots don't work too well anymore. Minimum 3 by 9 crosshair Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow, Boxer Tula.. all I find here is Berdan.. I started the WOLF thing some 10+ yr ago.. Tacked thread buried somewhere amongst the tacked stuff at top of page.. For most part, straight forward loading, just have to chamfer mouth and touch primer pocket on WOLF, as the red paint make for sharp edge that goof with primer seat.. ned to use quality bullets, not FMJ.. see where it goes Since you've been doing it for awhile, can you recommend a good bullet that might work with these cases? Not that I'm going to load a ton of them but it would be nice to know what works well. These were bulk 55 grain FMJ from Xtreme bullets. I think I might need to get a different scope as well. My eyes are crap and red dots don't work too well anymore. Minimum 3 by 9 crosshair |
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<a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Ammo/P6050140.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Ammo/P6050140.jpg</a> <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Ammo/P1290771.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Ammo/P1290771.jpg</a> <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Berdan%20primed/PC020317.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Berdan%20primed/PC020317.jpg</a> Steel case Berdan too. <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Powder%20Coat/P1010905_zpsr3uylezi.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Powder%20Coat/P1010905_zpsr3uylezi.jpg</a> Far right, aluminum cases also. Normal dies, normal lube, "brass" you pick up with a magnet, what's not to love. Quoted:
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Dryflash reloads steel on a regular basis I believe. <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Ammo/P6050140.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Ammo/P6050140.jpg</a> <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Ammo/P1290771.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Ammo/P1290771.jpg</a> <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Berdan%20primed/PC020317.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Berdan%20primed/PC020317.jpg</a> Steel case Berdan too. <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Powder%20Coat/P1010905_zpsr3uylezi.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Powder%20Coat/P1010905_zpsr3uylezi.jpg</a> Far right, aluminum cases also. Normal dies, normal lube, "brass" you pick up with a magnet, what's not to love. I too reload steel cases. I use them at "lost brass matches." I don't feel so bad leaving those lay on the ground when I leave. However, I've tried a few times to load aluminum cases with little success. My case split ratio was really high. I'd say 45-50% of my aluminum cases ended up splitting somewhere in the reloading process. Ended up not being worth it to reload them in my opinion. It can be done, but way too time consuming to pull apart 50% of my reloads when I found split mouths after seating and crimping. |
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I used to reload the steel .45 ACP cases but my P220 just doesn't like them, so considering I have more than enough brass cases I'll just use them from here on out.
I was saddened to see Tula went to the Berdan primers in the .223 cases. I really liked loading .223 "single pass" on my turret press with no trimming. |
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Is there a brass shortage that I was unaware of or are you just climbing mountains because they are there? Climbing mountains implies greater difficulty. Since steel cases do not grow when fired or resized, they do not need to be trimmed. This makes them easier and faster to reload. They can be reloaded like pistol ammo - sized / deprimed, primed, charged, and seat / crimp all in one trip around the press. It's the guys insisting on only brass who are climbing mountains. |
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Quoted:
Climbing mountains implies greater difficulty. Since steel cases do not grow when fired or resized, they do not need to be trimmed. This makes them easier and faster to reload. They can be reloaded like pistol ammo - sized / deprimed, primed, charged, and seat / crimp all in one trip around the press. It's the guys insisting on only brass who are climbing mountains. Quoted:
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Is there a brass shortage that I was unaware of or are you just climbing mountains because they are there? Climbing mountains implies greater difficulty. Since steel cases do not grow when fired or resized, they do not need to be trimmed. This makes them easier and faster to reload. They can be reloaded like pistol ammo - sized / deprimed, primed, charged, and seat / crimp all in one trip around the press. It's the guys insisting on only brass who are climbing mountains. Since I have had poly cases seize in a couple 5.56 AR chambers, and have never had brass do this, I would suggest you are standing so close to your mountain that you can't see it, and it will rock slide on you. Hopefully it won't be that day when you have 8 shooters, two rifles, 45 miles from your house, and no other ammo with you...................BTDT. OP said he had to chamfer. I trim, chamfer, and deburr in one operation, so that really isn't any additional labor to me at all, other than the steel cases are harder and take more time to cut. Dillon has already stated that they void your warranty if you load steel. Others may be soon to follow. Sure, this is a fun thread, but if the day came where I had to reload steel, that would be the day my used reloading equipment hit the EE. 
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The steel 45 ACP loads fine too!
I used load the old USGI steel cases we used to get; gotta watch out though cause the plating on them is supposedly Cadmium and when it gets into your tumbling medium, it's not good to breath! Don't see many of those around these days. The Ruskie stuffs no different (except no toxic plating). Mind tend to split on the 3rd or 4th reload though. |
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Anyone track the effect of running steel cases through your sizers? It seems to be elementary physics that steel on steel should wear dies exponentially faster. I
would rather buy reputable brass and avoid buying expensive dies more often. I look at brass as free, since I don't push the pressure envelope, if I get 8-10 reloads on a case, which is easy for my loads, I end up paying $0.0005 a case. Since I shoot about 5000 rounds of 223 a year, I average about $2.50 a year on 223, brass. I consider my dies an investment and run Redding S-type...they aren't cheap. Dies seems to be one of the keys to accuracy, so I actively protect them from unnecessary wear and tear, minimal shoulder bumping, keeping them rust free and lubed, never running contaminated dirty cases through them...etc. I've read that resizing lube lacks Teflon and silicon due to the extreme pressures from reloading, which can cause the lube to degrade and lose its lubricity. I doubt the Ruskies are using advanced polymers to coat their crappy steel cased crapola. Neat to know it CAN be done, hopefully I never get so hard up that I HAVE to do it. |
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I like to reload steel cases because people think you can't or shouldn't. If you don't want to reload them, then don't. My reasoning as well. I didn't do a cost or cube analysis on the process either relevant to die wear et al. Just wanted to see if it could be done. It's a plan B if brass becomes short in a scare. Would like to try it on berdan 7.62x39 if I can find primers and bullets. |
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Quoted: What setup do you use to prime 7.62 berdan cases? Hand or press? Pics? Do .217 berdan primers work normally?  I started with a RCBS hand primer that I installed a stop to limit primer seating. Very important with a Berdan primer as you are seating it just above the anvil built into the case. Primers are seated .002 to .003 below flush. I have never had a misfire with a berdan case I loaded.
The primer feed tray would hang up with the larger diameter Berdan primers, so I looked for a better way to prime.  Now I use this RCBS (the original) bench primer. Notice the stop I placed on the bottom, the bolt and locknut. More here, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/325383_Loading_Berdan_primed_brass__7_62_x_39_Update_on_where_to_get_Berdan_primers__pg_2_.html |
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Quoted: Since you've been doing it for awhile, can you recommend a good bullet that might work with these cases? Not that I'm going to load a ton of them but it would be nice to know what works well. These were bulk 55 grain FMJ from Xtreme bullets. I think I might need to get a different scope as well. My eyes are crap and red dots don't work too well anymore. Minimum 3 by 9 crosshair Hornady Steel Match is loaded with a 55gr HP and 75gr HPBT. I'd try the 50gr VMAX. |
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Quoted:
<a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Berdan%20primed/P2170512_zpsbdb69597.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Berdan%20primed/P2170512_zpsbdb69597.jpg</a> I started with a RCBS hand primer that I installed a stop to limit primer seating. Very important with a Berdan primer as you are seating it just above the anvil built into the case. Primers are seated .002 to .003 below flush. I have never had a misfire with a berdan case I loaded. The primer feed tray would hang up with the larger diameter Berdan primers, so I looked for a better way to prime. <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Tools/P1010848_zpscd96399e.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Tools/P1010848_zpscd96399e.jpg</a> Now I use this RCBS (the original) bench primer. Notice the stop I placed on the bottom, the bolt and locknut. More here, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/325383_Loading_Berdan_primed_brass__7_62_x_39_Update_on_where_to_get_Berdan_primers__pg_2_.html Quoted:
Quoted:
What setup do you use to prime 7.62 berdan cases? Hand or press? Pics? Do .217 berdan primers work normally? <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Berdan%20primed/P2170512_zpsbdb69597.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Berdan%20primed/P2170512_zpsbdb69597.jpg</a> I started with a RCBS hand primer that I installed a stop to limit primer seating. Very important with a Berdan primer as you are seating it just above the anvil built into the case. Primers are seated .002 to .003 below flush. I have never had a misfire with a berdan case I loaded. The primer feed tray would hang up with the larger diameter Berdan primers, so I looked for a better way to prime. <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Tools/P1010848_zpscd96399e.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Tools/P1010848_zpscd96399e.jpg</a> Now I use this RCBS (the original) bench primer. Notice the stop I placed on the bottom, the bolt and locknut. More here, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/325383_Loading_Berdan_primed_brass__7_62_x_39_Update_on_where_to_get_Berdan_primers__pg_2_.html Dryflash, All I have is the RCBS hand priming tool. I'm not totally tracking on what the mod is doing to limit how far the seating rod is allowed to travel. What does the bolt tighten against , if anything, to limit the rod travel? From what I can tell looking at mine, the screw will stop the cylinder that the seating rod sits on at the 3/4" mark, right? If that's the case, does the seating rod extend at all above the hole in the shell holder? Doesn't appear the rod travels high enough to seat, but I could be wrong since I don't have any berdan primers to work with unless using an old primer will mimic a new primer. Thoughts? BTW, I'll probably use the hydraulic method to deprime 7.62 cases. Appreciate your patience on this. |
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Quoted: Dryflash, All I have is the RCBS hand priming tool. I'm not totally tracking on what the mod is doing to limit how far the seating rod is allowed to travel. What does the bolt tighten against , if anything, to limit the rod travel? From what I can tell looking at mine, the screw will stop the cylinder that the seating rod sits on at the 3/4" mark, right? If that's the case, does the seating rod extend at all above the hole in the shell holder? Doesn't appear the rod travels high enough to seat, but I could be wrong since I don't have any berdan primers to work with unless using an old primer will mimic a new primer. Thoughts? BTW, I'll probably use the hydraulic method to deprime 7.62 cases. Appreciate your patience on this. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What setup do you use to prime 7.62 berdan cases? Hand or press? Pics? Do .217 berdan primers work normally? <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Berdan%20primed/P2170512_zpsbdb69597.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Berdan%20primed/P2170512_zpsbdb69597.jpg</a> I started with a RCBS hand primer that I installed a stop to limit primer seating. Very important with a Berdan primer as you are seating it just above the anvil built into the case. Primers are seated .002 to .003 below flush. I have never had a misfire with a berdan case I loaded. The primer feed tray would hang up with the larger diameter Berdan primers, so I looked for a better way to prime. <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Tools/P1010848_zpscd96399e.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Tools/P1010848_zpscd96399e.jpg</a> Now I use this RCBS (the original) bench primer. Notice the stop I placed on the bottom, the bolt and locknut. More here, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/325383_Loading_Berdan_primed_brass__7_62_x_39_Update_on_where_to_get_Berdan_primers__pg_2_.html Dryflash, All I have is the RCBS hand priming tool. I'm not totally tracking on what the mod is doing to limit how far the seating rod is allowed to travel. What does the bolt tighten against , if anything, to limit the rod travel? From what I can tell looking at mine, the screw will stop the cylinder that the seating rod sits on at the 3/4" mark, right? If that's the case, does the seating rod extend at all above the hole in the shell holder? Doesn't appear the rod travels high enough to seat, but I could be wrong since I don't have any berdan primers to work with unless using an old primer will mimic a new primer. Thoughts? BTW, I'll probably use the hydraulic method to deprime 7.62 cases. Appreciate your patience on this. Looking at it, the added screw doesn't interface with the internals of the priming tool at all (the plunger and rod), rather it acts as a stop that the priming handle runs into preventing it from being pushed fully against the body of the tool, and thus limiting the primer seating ability to that fixed depth. |
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Quoted: Dryflash, All I have is the RCBS hand priming tool. I'm not totally tracking on what the mod is doing to limit how far the seating rod is allowed to travel. What does the bolt tighten against , if anything, to limit the rod travel? From what I can tell looking at mine, the screw will stop the cylinder that the seating rod sits on at the 3/4" mark, right? If that's the case, does the seating rod extend at all above the hole in the shell holder? Doesn't appear the rod travels high enough to seat, but I could be wrong since I don't have any berdan primers to work with unless using an old primer will mimic a new primer. Thoughts? BTW, I'll probably use the hydraulic method to deprime 7.62 cases. Appreciate your patience on this. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What setup do you use to prime 7.62 berdan cases? Hand or press? Pics? Do .217 berdan primers work normally? <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Berdan%20primed/P2170512_zpsbdb69597.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Berdan%20primed/P2170512_zpsbdb69597.jpg</a> I started with a RCBS hand primer that I installed a stop to limit primer seating. Very important with a Berdan primer as you are seating it just above the anvil built into the case. Primers are seated .002 to .003 below flush. I have never had a misfire with a berdan case I loaded. The primer feed tray would hang up with the larger diameter Berdan primers, so I looked for a better way to prime. <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Tools/P1010848_zpscd96399e.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Tools/P1010848_zpscd96399e.jpg</a> Now I use this RCBS (the original) bench primer. Notice the stop I placed on the bottom, the bolt and locknut. More here, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/325383_Loading_Berdan_primed_brass__7_62_x_39_Update_on_where_to_get_Berdan_primers__pg_2_.html Dryflash, All I have is the RCBS hand priming tool. I'm not totally tracking on what the mod is doing to limit how far the seating rod is allowed to travel. What does the bolt tighten against , if anything, to limit the rod travel? From what I can tell looking at mine, the screw will stop the cylinder that the seating rod sits on at the 3/4" mark, right? If that's the case, does the seating rod extend at all above the hole in the shell holder? Doesn't appear the rod travels high enough to seat, but I could be wrong since I don't have any berdan primers to work with unless using an old primer will mimic a new primer. Thoughts? BTW, I'll probably use the hydraulic method to deprime 7.62 cases. Appreciate your patience on this. That's because you didn't read the thread I linked to. |
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Quoted:
That's because you didn't read the thread I linked to. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What setup do you use to prime 7.62 berdan cases? Hand or press? Pics? Do .217 berdan primers work normally? <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Berdan%20primed/P2170512_zpsbdb69597.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Berdan%20primed/P2170512_zpsbdb69597.jpg</a> I started with a RCBS hand primer that I installed a stop to limit primer seating. Very important with a Berdan primer as you are seating it just above the anvil built into the case. Primers are seated .002 to .003 below flush. I have never had a misfire with a berdan case I loaded. The primer feed tray would hang up with the larger diameter Berdan primers, so I looked for a better way to prime. <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Tools/P1010848_zpscd96399e.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Tools/P1010848_zpscd96399e.jpg</a> Now I use this RCBS (the original) bench primer. Notice the stop I placed on the bottom, the bolt and locknut. More here, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/325383_Loading_Berdan_primed_brass__7_62_x_39_Update_on_where_to_get_Berdan_primers__pg_2_.html Dryflash, All I have is the RCBS hand priming tool. I'm not totally tracking on what the mod is doing to limit how far the seating rod is allowed to travel. What does the bolt tighten against , if anything, to limit the rod travel? From what I can tell looking at mine, the screw will stop the cylinder that the seating rod sits on at the 3/4" mark, right? If that's the case, does the seating rod extend at all above the hole in the shell holder? Doesn't appear the rod travels high enough to seat, but I could be wrong since I don't have any berdan primers to work with unless using an old primer will mimic a new primer. Thoughts? BTW, I'll probably use the hydraulic method to deprime 7.62 cases. Appreciate your patience on this. That's because you didn't read the thread I linked to. Now I see. Thanks. |
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Count me as another shooter who's been reloading boxer primed steel and aluminum cases for years. I try not to repeat what other users have said, so here's some other info from my experience:
Steel cases don't seem to stretch as much as brass, so when they finally need trimming, I toss them as steel is harder to trim than brass. I check all .223 steel cases to make sure they are boxer primed; ruining a decapping rod/pin negates savings. Reload a steel .223 case enough, and it starts turning shiny as the factory coating has been removed...I store the reloads in a dehumidified room. Because the reloads are slicker, they function perfectly in one of my AR's in which steel cased Factory ammo will stick in the chamber and not extract when fired. I have a few cases that almost look like they're made from stainless steel they've been reloaded so many times, but the vast majority will split the case neck in around 4-5 reloads. I've not worn out my sizing die (Lee) yet while reloading steel .223 cases. I periodically check the sized cases in a case gage. I feel that the case lube, being between the case and the die, protects the die. I tumble clean all cases prior to sizing. I do not reload any steel cases showing any signs of rust, as I feel that could scratch or wear the sizing die. I use regular 55 or 62gr fmj bullets for reloading steel .223, making sure to inside chamfer the case mouth like others do. I use the same powder charges as for brass cases, but the charge seems to fill up the steel case a touch more...no experienced problems in reloading LOTS of steel cases. Reloading steel and aluminum sure seems to bother some folks. Enjoy and shoot lots! |
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I enjoy reloading steel.
I dry tumble for a short time to preserve any polymer coating. Wet tumbling for a short time is ok but you have to actively dry it or it will rust inside pretty quickly. They do split more quickly than brass. Nice looking bling... I think I tumbled these a bit too much... 
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