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Posted: 1/4/2014 11:54:03 AM EDT
[#1]
Thinking about trying a .002 shim anyway just for funsies.
I took my 9mm shell plate and a random 9 mm casing and measured from the bottom of the shell plate to the casing. I got about 0.006". That and the .004" I have between the subplate and the shell plate means I have the potential of 0.010" movement possible with the 9mm casings. |
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Posted: 1/5/2014 1:46:45 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm having the station five list and jumping issues as well.
Would somebody tell a timid dummy like me how to remove the subplate so I can get to measuring? Is it just a matter of removing the two allen screws below the subplate on the ram? I bought my LNL three years ago, but was going to be moving soon, so I never set it up until recently. I love this press but it has the common issues. |
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Posted: 1/5/2014 2:13:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigW1stCav:
I'm having the station five list and jumping issues as well. Would somebody tell a timid dummy like me how to remove the subplate so I can get to measuring? Is it just a matter of removing the two allen screws below the subplate on the ram? I bought my LNL three years ago, but was going to be moving soon, so I never set it up until recently. I love this press but it has the common issues. Yes, the two Flat Head Cap Screws in the side of the ram are what hold the sub-plate on the ram. They may be snug so make sure the tool is fully engaged before turning. You may have to wiggle the sub-plate up out of the ram. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/5/2014 2:15:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cisco1]
[#4]
Thanks for the post op. I have the problem with the primers not seating all the way. I hope this helps.
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Posted: 1/5/2014 4:24:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TZ250:
Yes, the two Flat Head Cap Screws in the side of the ram are what hold the sub-plate on the ram. They may be snug so make sure the tool is fully engaged before turning. You may have to wiggle the sub-plate up out of the ram. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TZ250:
Originally Posted By BigW1stCav:
I'm having the station five list and jumping issues as well. Would somebody tell a timid dummy like me how to remove the subplate so I can get to measuring? Is it just a matter of removing the two allen screws below the subplate on the ram? I bought my LNL three years ago, but was going to be moving soon, so I never set it up until recently. I love this press but it has the common issues. Yes, the two Flat Head Cap Screws in the side of the ram are what hold the sub-plate on the ram. They may be snug so make sure the tool is fully engaged before turning. You may have to wiggle the sub-plate up out of the ram. Thank you. I got it off. Snug was quite the understatement on those screws! Getting the spent primer tube off was not a real joy either. Okay, my measurements are somewhat crude, (calipers only) so, give or take a couple of thousandths here. Drive hub: .948 Sub plate: .933 Once off, I mated the hub back up to the sub plate and tried to measure the amount of drive hub that was above the sub plate. It looked to be about .011. Again, my measurements are crude and this is .004 shorter than what I should have gotten; mathematically speaking. I ordered a shim kit and I think I'll start with a .008 shim, put her all back together and load some 9mm. Sound good? Here is a somewhat related issue and fix: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/349532_Hornady_OAL_issue_fixed_.html Any feedback on my methods here would be appreciated. |
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Posted: 1/5/2014 4:26:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TZ250:
Yes, the two Flat Head Cap Screws in the side of the ram are what hold the sub-plate on the ram. They may be snug so make sure the tool is fully engaged before turning. You may have to wiggle the sub-plate up out of the ram. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TZ250:
Originally Posted By BigW1stCav:
I'm having the station five list and jumping issues as well. Would somebody tell a timid dummy like me how to remove the subplate so I can get to measuring? Is it just a matter of removing the two allen screws below the subplate on the ram? I bought my LNL three years ago, but was going to be moving soon, so I never set it up until recently. I love this press but it has the common issues. Yes, the two Flat Head Cap Screws in the side of the ram are what hold the sub-plate on the ram. They may be snug so make sure the tool is fully engaged before turning. You may have to wiggle the sub-plate up out of the ram. Thank you. I got it off. Snug was quite the understatement on those screws! Getting the spent primer tube off was not a real joy either. Okay, my measurements are somewhat crude, (calipers only) so, give or take a couple of thousandths here. Drive hub: .948 Sub plate: .933 Once off, I mated the hub back up to the sub plate and tried to measure the amount of drive hub that was above the sub plate. It looked to be about .011. Again, my measurements are crude and this is .004 shorter than what I should have gotten; mathematically speaking. I ordered a shim kit and I think I'll start with a .008 shim, put her all back together and load some 9mm. Sound good? Here is a somewhat related issue and fix: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/349532_Hornady_OAL_issue_fixed_.html Any feedback on my methods here would be appreciated. |
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Posted: 1/5/2014 5:41:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigW1stCav:
Thank you. I got it off. Snug was quite the understatement on those screws! Getting the spent primer tube off was not a real joy either. Okay, my measurements are somewhat crude, (calipers only) so, give or take a couple of thousandths here. Drive hub: .948 Sub plate: .933 Once off, I mated the hub back up to the sub plate and tried to measure the amount of drive hub that was above the sub plate. It looked to be about .011. Again, my measurements are crude and this is .004 shorter than what I should have gotten; mathematically speaking. I ordered a shim kit and I think I'll start with a .008 shim, put her all back together and load some 9mm. Sound good? Here is a somewhat related issue and fix: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/349532_Hornady_OAL_issue_fixed_.html Any feedback on my methods here would be appreciated. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigW1stCav:
Originally Posted By TZ250:
Originally Posted By BigW1stCav:
I'm having the station five list and jumping issues as well. Would somebody tell a timid dummy like me how to remove the subplate so I can get to measuring? Is it just a matter of removing the two allen screws below the subplate on the ram? I bought my LNL three years ago, but was going to be moving soon, so I never set it up until recently. I love this press but it has the common issues. Yes, the two Flat Head Cap Screws in the side of the ram are what hold the sub-plate on the ram. They may be snug so make sure the tool is fully engaged before turning. You may have to wiggle the sub-plate up out of the ram. Thank you. I got it off. Snug was quite the understatement on those screws! Getting the spent primer tube off was not a real joy either. Okay, my measurements are somewhat crude, (calipers only) so, give or take a couple of thousandths here. Drive hub: .948 Sub plate: .933 Once off, I mated the hub back up to the sub plate and tried to measure the amount of drive hub that was above the sub plate. It looked to be about .011. Again, my measurements are crude and this is .004 shorter than what I should have gotten; mathematically speaking. I ordered a shim kit and I think I'll start with a .008 shim, put her all back together and load some 9mm. Sound good? Here is a somewhat related issue and fix: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/349532_Hornady_OAL_issue_fixed_.html Any feedback on my methods here would be appreciated. You are definitely on the right track. That other thread was interesting. There is even one or more posts where the owners had the issue with too much drive hub clearance. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/6/2014 9:51:03 PM EDT
[#8]
I just did this to my press. This is definitely a "every press is different" kind of project. My press required a .005 shim then needed a slight indexing paw adjustment. Tightening up the sub-plate / top-plate tolerances on my press made it not want to index quite all the way requiring the paw adjustment. The results are night and day!
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Posted: 1/6/2014 10:24:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Foxtrot08]
[#9]
Edit:
Still got some work to do. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 1/16/2014 7:18:01 PM EDT
[#10]
First of all, thankyou for all who contributed to this technical thread!
I ordered shims the same way the OP did and tried my best making the measurements with drop gauges and calipers etc. My measurements indicated I needed a 0.008in shim to get a 0.004in gap between the subplate and drive hub. When trying the 0.008 and tightening the screw all the way down, there was actually an interference and too much friction. I ended up using that as a reference point though and worked my way down to 0.004in shim and it indexes just as well as before but now less case tilt in station 5 and less snappy indexing! Thanks again! |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 1/16/2014 7:39:11 PM EDT
[#11]
I just loaded a little over 200rnd of 9mm on it just now. I forgot to mention that it also helps press the case retention spring down a little more and I am having less cases tilt and catch on it, and it also helps with priming!
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Posted: 1/17/2014 10:33:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bluegrass_uk]
[#12]
Update: I added the 0.0005 shim today to the 0.002 and that did it.
Jerkiness = gone, case tilt = eliminated, primers = seating perfectly. I have to say, this idea really addresses the small issues that I have always wanted to improve on the LNL AP. Unofficial 2013 LNL AP Modification award! 
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IN, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2014 12:41:38 AM EDT
[#13]
How is the sub plate height being measured? I only have calipers here. My drive hub was .942 just like the OP. Now reassembled, the drive hub is .019 below the surface of the subplate. Any help or direction?
I'm mostly having a priming issue. |
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Posted: 1/18/2014 7:51:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bluegrass_uk]
[#14]
You can review the OP. You can see how he measures the sub plate in the fourth picture (I could not really get a good reading with regular calipers either, so I went trial and error with the shims).
You can also see that the drive hub is being pulled below the surface of the shell plate in the seventh picture of the OP. This is what helps to tighten the tolerances. |
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Posted: 1/18/2014 8:01:46 AM EDT
[#15]
So on mine when I screw in the bolt without a plate in place and pull it up, the drive hub pulls up above flush, which would be the same with sub-plate in place correct? I'm wondering if this would help smoothen mine out any further. but in reading it appears that this fix brings it above the shellplate so I assume others must have theirs resting below shellplate. Since mine obviously doesn't rest below.... |
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Posted: 1/18/2014 8:35:26 AM EDT
[#16]
The award is hilarious. Cracked me up!! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scorpius:
So on mine when I screw in the bolt without a plate in place and pull it up, the drive hub pulls up above flush, which would be the same with sub-plate in place correct? I'm wondering if this would help smoothen mine out any further. but in reading it appears that this fix brings it above the shellplate so I assume others must have theirs resting below shellplate. Since mine obviously doesn't rest below.... If you thread a screw into the drive hub without the shellplate in place and pull up on it you may see that it sits well above the sub-plate. If it rises .010" above the sub-plate then you may want to try a .005" shim. The measurements are to get you close. You will likely have to tweak the last .001" or so. |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 2:30:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: johnh57]
[#17]
I had about a 0.004 difference. I used a .002 shim and it seems to working fine - I haven't tried it on 9mm yet which is where my powder jumping issues occur.
I plan on keeping the 4 thinest washers from the set - but I have no use for the rest of them. If anyone wants all of the rest of them PM me and I'll drop them in the mail. -Spoken for. |
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Posted: 1/20/2014 12:45:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Just tried this on mine. It seems to have helped. It seems to like the .0025 best.
I had case tilt issues on 223 resulting in the neck occasionally hitting the decap/sizing die followed by the primer not seating until I manually tilted the case back. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2014 7:42:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bluegrass_uk:
Wow, this is great. I wonder if it would solve a different issue as well: There are a few people (including me) who have experienced "case tilt" in station 5 with tall cartridges such as 357 Mag. I have always wondered if finding a way to pull the shell plate tighter might eliminate the case tilt. Here is how I fixed that. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=464088 I haven't thought of shimming the drive hub. Great idea and an excellent post. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 7:56:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Mine took 0.0075" before it started to get "tight". I don't have quality tools to take the actual measurements, so my method was all trial and error.
Advancement seems noticeably smoother, and "case tilt" in station 5 (with an empty 9mm case) seems to be reduced, but still very evident. I'm afraid the only true remedy for that situation is going to involve removing metal with precision that I don't have. 
All in all, absolutely worth the time and effort. Thanks OP! |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 9:21:46 PM EDT
[#21]
That is the good thing about the shim kit. No matter what you should able to find a setup that will help your press.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 8:12:07 PM EDT
[#22]
OP, thank you very much for posting this. I've had my press for 5 years and have always had the shell plate "jump". I've never been able to seat primers below flush either. Your instructions and a .002" shim helped me resolve both of these issues! Thanks!
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Posted: 1/28/2014 8:16:05 PM EDT
[#23]
I wound up with a 0.003" shim being the most I could use. With a 0.004" the shell plate dragged when fully tightened down, but with 0.003" and some silicone grease on the bottom of the shell plate, there's some resistance but no drag, and it's very, very smooth when it moves.
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Posted: 1/28/2014 9:27:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Glad to hear that positive results are coming from this thread.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/28/2014 9:48:14 PM EDT
[#25]
Good work, TZ.
I plan on playing around with this as soon as the weather warms up. |
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Posted: 2/1/2014 10:04:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigW1stCav]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TZ250:
You are definitely on the right track. That other thread was interesting. There is even one or more posts where the owners had the issue with too much drive hub clearance. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TZ250:
Originally Posted By BigW1stCav:
Originally Posted By TZ250:
Originally Posted By BigW1stCav:
I'm having the station five list and jumping issues as well. Would somebody tell a timid dummy like me how to remove the subplate so I can get to measuring? Is it just a matter of removing the two allen screws below the subplate on the ram? I bought my LNL three years ago, but was going to be moving soon, so I never set it up until recently. I love this press but it has the common issues. Yes, the two Flat Head Cap Screws in the side of the ram are what hold the sub-plate on the ram. They may be snug so make sure the tool is fully engaged before turning. You may have to wiggle the sub-plate up out of the ram. Thank you. I got it off. Snug was quite the understatement on those screws! Getting the spent primer tube off was not a real joy either. Okay, my measurements are somewhat crude, (calipers only) so, give or take a couple of thousandths here. Drive hub: .948 Sub plate: .933 Once off, I mated the hub back up to the sub plate and tried to measure the amount of drive hub that was above the sub plate. It looked to be about .011. Again, my measurements are crude and this is .004 shorter than what I should have gotten; mathematically speaking. I ordered a shim kit and I think I'll start with a .008 shim, put her all back together and load some 9mm. Sound good? Here is a somewhat related issue and fix: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/349532_Hornady_OAL_issue_fixed_.html Any feedback on my methods here would be appreciated. You are definitely on the right track. That other thread was interesting. There is even one or more posts where the owners had the issue with too much drive hub clearance. UPDATE: Well, .008 proved to be too much. I was getting the "grind" of shellplate, and a worsening of the plate jerk when it settled into position. Then, I couldn't remove the ram/subplate set screw on the right side. Apparently shimming it too much drove it too high into the ram. A good buddy, came over and drilled that screw out for me and I started all over. I honestly can not remember which shims I ended up with, but I put two in and I believe it was around .004" total. My press is now much, much smoother and my station five tilt is all but gone. Priming depth is better and lands more centered at that station than before. What I learned: Go lighter than you think on the shims, and work up if necessary. The brilliance and talent of individuals on this board never ceases to amaze me. Thank you so much, TZ250! |
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Posted: 2/2/2014 1:05:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bags533:
Good work, TZ. I plan on playing around with this as soon as the weather warms up. I've still got extra shims that I'll give you to try before you buy some. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/2/2014 2:04:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Might have to try this, but need to find the shims first.
Never really noticed the case tilting and jostling until I started rolling 9mm, then I could see what you guys were talking about. |
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Posted: 2/2/2014 3:34:45 PM EDT
[#29]
I am real close to hitting the order button on this press.
Should this fix be done before setting up the dies? |
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Posted: 2/2/2014 3:54:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StretchMaK:
I am real close to hitting the order button on this press. Should this fix be done before setting up the dies? It can be done at any time, but you will need a shellplate in place to be able to gauge the results. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/3/2014 6:40:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Happy2shoot]
[#31]
Had to post this!
Government price for shims is $19.16 plus shipping! Gov Price Tooldex.com Price $10.10 Plus Shipping |
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Posted: 2/3/2014 2:22:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Happy2shoot: Had to post this! Government price for shims is $19.16 plus shipping! Gov Price Tooldex.com Price $10.10 Plus Shipping Please leave the politics in GD. |
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Posted: 2/3/2014 5:18:50 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By miker84:
I've still got extra shims that I'll give you to try before you buy some. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By miker84:
Originally Posted By bags533:
Good work, TZ. I plan on playing around with this as soon as the weather warms up. I've still got extra shims that I'll give you to try before you buy some. 
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/9/2014 10:39:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Vicious_138]
[#34]
Thanks for doing this research and posting it op!
I had station 5 tilt, very noticeable with 223. The bullet tip would hit the lee FCD mouth a lot. My primers have always seated pretty well tho. I haven't noticed much "jump" with 9mm, but I use titegroup with 9mm so it's not full enough for powder to jump out. I ended up with a .007" shim installed. It helped the case tilt a lot, but did not get rid of it completely. I tried the .008" to see if I could completely get rid of the tilt, but that shim made the shell plate drag. But all in all, the case tilt is better and doesn't hit the mouth of the FCD anymore. So I call it a success! Thanks again! Update: I did this double sticky foam trick just now, worked great. No tilt at all now http://www.ak47.net/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=349419 |
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Posted: 2/9/2014 12:55:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Glad it helped! I just ran a batch of .40 and there wasn't one spilled flake of powder on the press. I just received my order confirmation for my 500 free bullets. 500 180gr XTPs are over $110 at Midway, taking that into account brings the cost of the press down to just over $275. I don't mind a little tweaking when you get this much machine for under $300. Now I'm going to run some .30 carbine across it!
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Posted: 2/17/2014 2:06:24 AM EDT
[#36]
Just did this mod to my LnL AP. I ended up with a .006" shim. Smooth as silk now. Nice positive clicks into the next index.
How in the heck did you guys get the spent primer tube out of the sub plate? Thanks for posting this up TZ 250. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2014 10:09:35 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StretchMaK: How in the heck did you guys get the spent primer tube out of the sub plate? Hah...I spent about 10 minutes trying to figure out the same thing. Just lift the sub plate up and clamp it to the top of the press. |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 10:17:40 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NattyLight:
Hah...I spent about 10 minutes trying to figure out the same thing. Just lift the sub plate up and clamp it to the top of the press. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NattyLight:
Originally Posted By StretchMaK:
How in the heck did you guys get the spent primer tube out of the sub plate? Hah...I spent about 10 minutes trying to figure out the same thing. Just lift the sub plate up and clamp it to the top of the press. LOL, that's what I did. |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 10:19:42 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StretchMaK:
...... LOL, that's what I did. whew. Now I don't feel like a dummy. 
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Posted: 2/17/2014 11:57:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StretchMaK:
How in the heck did you guys get the spent primer tube out of the sub plate? Find a drill bit that just fits inside the spent primer tube. Then, with the drill bit in the tube (the shank end), grab the tube with a pair of pliers, twist, and pull down. |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 8:31:22 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tom488:
Find a drill bit that just fits inside the spent primer tube. Then, with the drill bit in the tube (the shank end), grab the tube with a pair of pliers, twist, and pull down. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tom488:
Originally Posted By StretchMaK:
How in the heck did you guys get the spent primer tube out of the sub plate? Find a drill bit that just fits inside the spent primer tube. Then, with the drill bit in the tube (the shank end), grab the tube with a pair of pliers, twist, and pull down. This, but gently tap the pliers down with a mallet or hammer. |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 1:29:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StretchMaK:
How in the heck did you guys get the spent primer tube out of the sub plate? Attach a 24oz pop bottle to the hose, decap about 2000 rounds and it will come out on its own. 
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LA, USA
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Posted: 2/18/2014 6:34:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Don't have any problems with mine ,but real nice info to have.
Thanks OP |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 9:47:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tom488:
Find a drill bit that just fits inside the spent primer tube. Then, with the drill bit in the tube (the shank end), grab the tube with a pair of pliers, twist, and pull down. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tom488:
Originally Posted By StretchMaK:
How in the heck did you guys get the spent primer tube out of the sub plate? Find a drill bit that just fits inside the spent primer tube. Then, with the drill bit in the tube (the shank end), grab the tube with a pair of pliers, twist, and pull down. When I upgraded to the EZ-ject, the kit came with a gadget to stick in the tube, and instructions to hold it with pliers where it was supported. That's essentially the same as using an appropriate drill bit to support the tube. |
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Posted: 2/18/2014 10:11:01 PM EDT
[#45]
My new LNL AP is on the truck for delivery on Thursday. Nice timing on seeing this thread.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2014 11:22:11 PM EDT
[#46]
My hub measured 0.946"
Sub Plate measured 0.932" Math said 0.010" Shim to get 0.004" clearance, but ended up greasing a 0.008" shim to cut down on some felt friction during indexing. No more shell plate wiggle 
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Posted: 3/28/2014 9:00:02 AM EDT
[#47]
I ordered and installed shims, but installing even the thinnest made my press worse. Don't recall measurements off the top of my head, but
if I installed anything but the thinnest the plate was too tight and would not rotate. I guess I got a good press. FYI the press is about a year old. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 11:14:22 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TXN_Infidel:
I ordered and installed shims, but installing even the thinnest made my press worse. Don't recall measurements off the top of my head, but if I installed anything but the thinnest the plate was too tight and would not rotate. I guess I got a good press. FYI the press is about a year old. Thanks for adding that info. I can say that not all shell plates are created equal. I have a couple that drag in certain spots on the sub-plate. I am working on a fix for this situation. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2014 3:14:24 PM EDT
[#49]
I got the shims from Amazon and installed on Monday I have loaded 9mm 223 and 45 acp and must admit the press is much improved! The shell tilt in station #5 is gone when loading 223 and it no longer shakes the powder out of my 9mm rounds.
Thanks for the post TZ 250 and figuring out how to help this press. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2014 11:18:47 AM EDT
[#50]
I spent a couple of days helping a friend tune a Lock n' Load press. His issue was/is with primer feed slide. The primer feed slide seems to be a few thou in. too thick such that that primer sits just a tad below the top. The next primer in the drop tube thus sits a tad BELOW the top and into the hole on the slide and hangs up on the lip thus preventing it from sliding into seating position. What you get is a completed load with no primer if you don't watch the feed slide to make sure it advances every single time, which is a PITA, of course. I polished everything up on the slide and took any and all small burs off to no avail. I got it working better but there is no fix that I can think of. The slide needs to be thinner so that the primer actually protrudes a few thou in. ABOVE the slide so that the primer above can't hang it up.
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