Armory Sponsor
Posted: 10/17/2013 1:09:07 PM EDT
| I have been using the super swage 600 for a year now and it has been nothing but a pain in the rear end. Sometimes it will swage a case correctly but 99% of the time it will leave a small part of the crimp. Is it just me or has anyone else had these problems? The more I try to adjust it the worse it gets. As of right now I want to throw the GD thing out the GD window. I would really like to hear your experiences or advice on the POS. |
|
Quoted:
I am sorting by headstamp. I still have to adjust each case and even then I will still get a case with a slight crimp. Don't like the "slight crimp"? As long as my hand priming tool will insert the primer and not stall out or damage the primer, a slight interference is what I am looking for. I am looking to just roll the crimp ring edge back slightly so the cup edge of the new primer does not get caught. I seldom adjust the backup rod for year to year LC 1X cases in 5.56 now. My only complaint with the Dillon 600 now is that you have to practically tear it all apart to change calibers from 5.56 to 7.62. Try wiping off the swaging nib with a little CLP from time to time. It seemed to help my rig run a little smoother. |
|
Quoted: I have been using the super swage 600 for a year now and it has been nothing but a pain in the rear end. Sometimes it will swage a case correctly but 99% of the time it will leave a small part of the crimp. Is it just me or has anyone else had these problems? The more I try to adjust it the worse it gets. As of right now I want to throw the GD thing out the GD window. I would really like to hear your experiences or advice on the POS. |
|
Quoted: The Dillon Super Swage does not remove material from the primer pocket. If the brass was over crimped, you may see (especially with Lake City brass), little rings. But basically the swager just moves the brass around. That's why alot of people use a swager vs a cutter. Much less chance in screwing up the primer pocket. But Yes you can over swage - I've done it. What I try to do is like others have said, after setting up the swage, I test the primer pocket by inserting a primer (Via my hand held priming system). If it goes in easily, we keep swaging, if not I readjust the swage to go a bit deeper into the brass. Then I test it again. Note I do not sort my brass as others have recommended. Yes I know that different brass have different crimps. But over the years I have found that 99% of my primer pockets come out perfect. Instead of sorting, I can live 1% scrap. I test every 200 pieces to verify the swage is still working. Very simple and straight forward. If your getting 99% that have tight pockets, go deeper. But only go deeper if you can't insert a primer via manual insertion. Quoted: Quoted: I have been using the super swage 600 for a year now and it has been nothing but a pain in the rear end. Sometimes it will swage a case correctly but 99% of the time it will leave a small part of the crimp. Is it just me or has anyone else had these problems? The more I try to adjust it the worse it gets. As of right now I want to throw the GD thing out the GD window. I would really like to hear your experiences or advice on the POS. A proper reamer designed for removing primer crimp works quite well. Like the Hornady reamer that has a built in stop so you can't over ream.
|
| I've gave up on my bench mounted swager (RCBS). I now use a cordless drill set on low speed, mounted in a vise with a 1/4" shank 1/2" diameter 60 degree 6-flute countersink bit and it works excellent! way faster than the old RCBS bench mounted swager that I was using. The countersink doesn't remove much material and actually feels like primer seating is smoother now using a Dillon 550. YMMV |
|
It's been exactly one year and two days since I posted a review on RCBS's then brand new bench swager, which everyone assumed was a slightly different, green, Dillon swager. It is certainly similar, but I have to tell you from my year's experience with the tool, that it has one serious advantage......the short sideways mounted swaging handle.
With the Dillon, one has to be especially careful to adjust it depending on headstamp. With this new RCBS tool that's really not true, because you don't have the excessive leverage of that long handle. You can swage by feel, and do it quickly, so there's less adjusting. The other advantage is the quick change between large & small primers, and large and small shafts. Those changes take seconds....you don't "have to practically tear it all apart" to do the same, as was described of the Dillon by an earlier post. I like to use my Trim Mate with my swager so that, other than trimming, case prep is all done in one pass. I keep a button handy from my old RCBS press mounted swager for to test whether or not it is really swaged. I got that idea from dryflash3, and it is a great fail-safe, for brass prepped to be used on my progressive. If the button goes in to the hilt, it will work without a hitch in my Pro 2000 APS primer system. So then using the RCBS bench swager, this is my procedure these days for military 7.62 & 5.56 LC brass (and it's quite fast): 1. I clean them .... dry corncob or wet stainless, depending on my mood. (with spent primers in place...later uniforming shines up primer pockets) 2. I size & deprime on my Rock Chucker, swage, uniform, and deburr pocket/flashholes. Then I touch them to the Trim Mate's military reamer only enough to get a tiny shiny smooth ring to that I can spot a swaged case with a glance) 3. I trim them in a separate batch using a three-way cutter that trims, deburrs, and chamfers the case mouth. 4. Finally the progressive finishes the job starting at station 2 where it primes & charges, station 3 powder cop. That leaves station 4 & 5 to seat and optionally crimp bullets. My primer system has a primer depth adjustment that requires uniforming primer holes if you use it....I do. I've tried lots of ways to prep military brass, and this by far is the simplest most trouble-free method I've found that works every time in a progressive. It's a nice feeling to have all the primer pocket prep work done in one pass and know that it's not going to cause a stoppage once the progressive goes to work. Trimming is another step, but very fast with no operator wear and tear. Could I improve the speed a little more?......I think I could if I sprang for RCBS's new Motorized Trimmer/Trim Mate tool. "Universal" I think they call it. Then trimming would be added to #2 above and only would add another second or two to the #2 step. IOW's #3 would then be part of #2 and I wouldn't have to move from my chair and trim in separate batch. But I probably won't....I like my fast motorized Forster.....so far....at least until I can no longer get up by myself.  (such a state has been brought to my awareness as I provide that very service for my 94 year-old-father.....every 2 hours....I have insurance to prevent that (94 years)....breakfast at McDonalds! 
|
|
I tried the RCBS press mounted swager and it was terrible. The die fit into the primer pocket but the primers were way too tight. Plus it was very slow. I then bought the Dillon 600 and it works terrific. I am not a Dillon fan boy. I buy equipment based on function not color. I do not sort by head stamp. Once adjusted the primers go right in as they should. Some cases you can still see a little bit of the crimp others the crimp ring is gone.
Have you tried to seat a primer? Maybe your expectation is that the crimp ring will go away on every case? If primers are not seating easily or are way too loose call Dillon. If they seat properly then who cares about still seeing the crimp ring? |
|
Quoted: Dryash3, is that tool you are using a left over reamer as GWhis mentioned or a tool specifically made for checking crimp removal? It's the only useful part of the RCBS die swager. It's the swage spud that goes in the press ram instead of a shell holder. On my bench tools for small primers are painted blue, large primers red. Just easy to pick out the correct sized tool. |
|
Quoted: I'm going to track one of those down. Seems ideal for checking range brass too. Thanks. This how you get one. The rest of the parts sit in a box. Maybe GWhis can convince RCBS to sell them as a separate part.
|
|
Quoted:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/235832/rcbs-primer-pocket-swager-combo-2 This how you get one. The rest of the parts sit in a box. Maybe GWhis can convince RCBS to sell them as a separate part. Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm going to track one of those down. Seems ideal for checking range brass too. Thanks. This how you get one. The rest of the parts sit in a box. Maybe GWhis can convince RCBS to sell them as a separate part. Not likely. I've been trying to convince them to sell "quick-caliber-change kits" for powder-actuated Uniflows (like Hornady does with their P.M.) for 2 years now. The only thing I'm convinced of is my influence is zero. It takes emails from lots of people to get their attention.....or create an instant demand for a product all over the web, like Allied Armory did with his $28 bullet feeder. Google that phrase and you'll see what I mean.... RCBS created their copy within 6 months of his original thread. In this case, you'll either have to buy the whole product new, or look for one at a gun show, Craigs list, or Ebay. Whoa check THIS out! That's my bench and my swager some guy in Wisconsin is selling on Ebay!  . Geeze, he couldn't take his own picture.
Be interesting if it goes for only $60. |
|
A friend of mine bought a 650, and called to tell me it was not doing well priming 308 brass he swaged. He had a primer detonation... I loaned him the parts to fix it, and looked at the brass. He was working with LC and one other type brass. All the brass he had problems with was the other type- turns out it had a thinner case head which resulted in insufficient crimp removal.
With regards to the choice of swaging or reaming, it seems that when the outer edge of the pocket is crimped it must distort the sides of the primer pocket as well. I tried various reaming methods, but many times noticed that there seems to be a tight spot as the primer is nearly seated. Swaged pockets seem to be more uniform in resistance throughout the primer transition into the pocket. They are also more consistent from round to round. |
|
Quoted:
I'm going to track one of those down. Seems ideal for checking range brass too. Thanks. Isn't there a guy on here making a gauge like that to check the pocket ? pretty sure if you check the EE you'll find it ETA: link |
|
Quoted:
Isn't there a guy on here making a gauge like that to check the pocket ? pretty sure if you check the EE you'll find it ETA: link Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm going to track one of those down. Seems ideal for checking range brass too. Thanks. Isn't there a guy on here making a gauge like that to check the pocket ? pretty sure if you check the EE you'll find it ETA: link That seems pretty handy. |
|
Quoted:
I have been using the super swage 600 for a year now and it has been nothing but a pain in the rear end. Sometimes it will swage a case correctly but 99% of the time it will leave a small part of the crimp. Is it just me or has anyone else had these problems? The more I try to adjust it the worse it gets. As of right now I want to throw the GD thing out the GD window. I would really like to hear your experiences or advice on the POS. I tried one and sold it. Seperated the brass. Adjusted it. When I used it if the case had a heavy crimp the crimp was not removed enough to consistantly allow primer seating without hanging. Over adjusting it, because of the small tip, would push the inside of the primer pocket toward the rear of the case and primers would not seat fully. I probably should have kept it because I have found for me no method that is 100% consistant without also reaming the pocket with a tool. |
|
Uneven bottom is one good reason to use a uniformer, especially if you shoot a gas gun.
One other gotcha with these swagers (all of them) is old brass that is so hard it doesn't swage....it just shears a tiny ring of brass off and deposits it in the bottom of the pocket. Such will cause high primers. If your uniformer just spins in the hole without removing material, you have a sheared ring in the bottom. That's a good reason to watch the chips fly while you use your Trim Mate tools. I've had one slam fire in my life and it was due to a high primer with a ring under it. Dryflash3.....I'll just ignore the picture....just surprised me....wasn't expecting that. |
Armory Sponsor