Winchester white box factory 230 grain ball. 1.269 oal, .470 case mouth diam.
This round is designed to feed in short recoil (all of today's) hand guns chambered for 45acp. Is what I consider to be base spec for 45acp. For that reason it's my go to round in case I'm having feed issues with gun or reloads. If your pistol won't feed this.... most likely you have a gun smith issue.

Barry 185 grain Hollow base round nose. oal, 1.264 oal .470 at case mouth

Ranier 200 grain flat point 1.195oal, .471 case mouth diam. - There's your round Maryland.

Hornady 200 grain combat bullet 1.240, .470 at case mouth.Not a good bullet for push feed pistols.

Missouri Bullet Co. 200 grain lswc.
Missouri Bullet Co.pictured is 1.230 .471 case mouth diam. 1.230 is minimum oal I found for this bullet. Note bullet shoulder (ogive) where straight wall of bullet curves. That curve is called ogive.Straight wall is seated into case leaving just the top of ogive exposed above case mouth. That curve is necessary in a controlled feed pistol like the 1911. Usually I seat this bullet between 1.240 to 1.245 for maximum feed ability. This is not a feed able bullet in push feed pistols like Springfield's XD. Don't recommend for push feed pistols at all.

Ranier 185 grain hp 1.243 oal .470 diam.

Hornady 185 grain XTP 1.235 oal .471 case diam. I seat this bullet anywhere from1.235 to 1.240.

Nosler 185 grain hp * competition 1.20 oal .472 diam.

Barry 185 grain bnswc. 1.205 oal .472 diam.


Meet my little friends. They are the  reason 45acp isn't like reloading for 9mm. No other caliber is sold in as many feed variants as sold in 45acp. Controlled feed 1911s in 3 ,4, 5, and 6" slides. Barrels ramped and unramped. Various degree and cuts in ramps. Short ramp vs long ramp 1911s. Fully supported and partially unsupported barrels. Push feed pistols like the plastic fantastics. Short chambered pistols like Sigs, Long chambered pistols like the 1911.

There are more variants of feed styles in pistols made for 45acp than any hand gun in the world. It's truly America's cartridge.

For this reason so many different bullets are made. Try telling a guy to load his lswc to your bnswc oal. They're both commonly referred to in this forum as swc. Not the same bullet, are they ? Don't laugh because it happens in this forum more times than you'd think and that MOBUCO bullet looks retarded when sunk to a depth of 1.205. It's a bomb waiting to explode when sunk that deep.

In as far as the crank of your press handle is concerned. 45acp loads the same as 9mm. One's a tapered case and the other a straight wall as we all know. But advice given for 45acp reloading needs to be given with much greater considerations to hand gun and bullet used. Anticipate the reloaders problem before his problem arises and you will be thanked many times.

For the reloader who's crafted his loads carefully over the years and has them down to a science. Never a deviation to his formula. There is no difference in the way he sets up his press for 9mm vs 45acp. He's loading for specific guns and has his pet loads. Press handle pulls the same in either caliber.

How many feed issue posts do we have in this forum,  45acp to 9mm. Guess ? My conservative guess..... 5 to 1...... They usually are the result of someone new to 45acp asking a question one way and interpreted another because of the variances in hand guns and bullets........ Or as often the skill full advice of an older reloader being construed completely different than the advice given.

Then there are new reloaders that ask for advice and gleaning only what they want to hear from various posters. Then return again stating the advice given isn't working only to glean what they want to hear, again........................ don't laugh.  Because at one time or the other we've all been stuck on stupid. These are the moments in life when very precise, crystal clear information needs to be given. In a reloading forum, especially when giving solicited advice you need to anticipate some one's problem with a new caliber before it happens. With 45acp it's important to know your bullet heights before offering oal advice. Call it preventative reloading.



Anyway. That's the end of my soap box. If the tone's a little harsh,  I can simply explain that it summizes my passion for 45acp and reflects the troubled experiences I had when new to reloading it.

Interesting! I have 200gr Laser Cast SWC's loaded to 1.225 and .470-.471 on the case mouth.



These are just my test loads for now until I get to the range and see how they actually work.



EDIT: I see you updated the info on the Missouri Bullet Company 200gr SWC. Quite interesting that your minimum oal is 1.230, when I found that 1.235 and above didn't want to feed with my Laser Cast 200gr SWC's in my 1911. Everything from 1.99-1.235 worked well, but not above. This crap is fun trying to figure out how to make them work. I shot my very first reloads today and it felt freaking awesome and I learned a ton!

Excellent post and thanks for posting.

For me I rarely use any bullet other then a 230 lead RN or FMJ in any of the various .45 handguns I own. I use Unique & Bullseye powder and have never had any feed problems.

However I can see where using some of those SWC bullets would not work so well in my XD.

btt/thread work done.

I don't think it was harsh at all. Just the facts. I load 200 grain SWC (H&G#68 or it's clone) at 1.250". Always have. I picked it up as "the OAL" for those bullets twenty some years ago. It works, so why change?

There were theorys that the thumbnail width of lead riding on the feed ramp helped reliability. Who knows? I know lots of people that have had trouble with those bullets until they seated them according to legend.

I never have loaded a 230 grain round nose. I never liked the design of them. It seems obvious that they should feed and function just fine, but I get that with the H&G #68's and a nice flat nose for self defense. They also shoot nice round holes in paper too.

Having just purchased another 1000 Nosler 185 grain HP's I'll try your seating depth. I've been using 1.135" with those, obtained good accuracy and haven't experienced any bobbles yet.

If it works and your pleased with accuracy, why change ? Why fix it if it ain't broke..... right ?

Your 1.135 is extreemely short if loading for 1911. I can see that being a good oal in a short chambered, short slide stroked push feed gun. With the right geometry in your controlled feed set up shorter oal can work. Usually any thing shorter than 1.200 is problematic in 1911s. I'm out of push feed 45acp hand guns for now. Nothing has caught my attention, yet..... That's why my oal isn't below 1.20 on any thing except the flat point. It was made for Marylandshooters XD45c that he bought a while back. If I was still reloading for that weapon both the Nosler HP and Barrys bnswc would be closer to 1.10 than 1.20. Some pistols have a shorter slide stroke than others, requiring shorter cartridge oal or ' coal ".

Main point of this post was to point out differences in both bullets and feed types in weapons. Slide stroke will vary from makes in weapons so oal is adjusted accordingly. My oal settings are for my 1911s. Your weapons requirements for coal may require 1.135. You never specified your weapon. If it's accurate enough, stay with it. Every weapons oal needs vary from slide length to recoil spring weight.

Thanks for bringing your oal to attention. It's important as you know to tailor make the round to your weapon. Thanks for making the point.

A Kimber can jam up on regular 230 gr ball ammo easily if not broken in properly...

A good friend would help develop a round that cycles well in his friends Kimber and help him tune his extractor if needed.  Tho, I hold Kimber to be in the over rated and over priced niche'. There isn't  a pistol made if functioning properly that a reloader with some under standing of principles can't make run like a well oiled machine gun with the proper bullet type, case mouth diameter, and adjustment to OAL. This is a heart felt belief of mine and I encourage all to have the same confidence in themselves.

yep a well tuned 1911 should run everything off the shelf ,,, personal I run 185 lswc because I get 7 more per pound then when I cast 230 lrn plus they cut a nice hole

and.... right you are Angus... ..right you are. There is how ever a non - gun smith approach to making an un tuned 1911 feed your tuned custom made ammunition. Provided it's in perfect operable condition... meaning all the parts are in operable condition. Two things a 1911 needs to run. A tuned and running extractor and work able feed geometry. The gun smith approach is to alter feed geometry.... .. The non gun smith approach is to manufacture ammunition that is suited to your 1911s geometry. That's the reason I make the distinction between push feed and control feed oal. I've also called the difference to be hi - bore axis and lo - bore axis ammunition. Control feed being low bore axis and push feed being hi - bore. Although my distinctions are for most weapons correct. It caused an out burst from a well known gun smith. His doctor has told him to lay off the bacon for some time now. Blood pressure.......

Control feed weapons chambered for 45acp as a rule require oal above 1.20. Push feed weapons will feed all ammunition but work best with ammunition under 1.260, especially compacts and sub compacts. Both requiring a hefty charge to feed 1.260 and above ball. In order to reduce felt recoil in the short stroked heavy recoil push feed weapons it's imperative to reduce oal below 1.30. My 1.195 oal flat point fed well in my XD45c without hammering the hell out of myself or pistol,  but had a tendacy to stick in my 1911s barrel hood. Too short oal.

Tuning your ammunition to your weapon is a secret that most gun smiths will not explain, rather start with.... I'm no fan of reloads..... imagine that.

Almost all feed problems are ammunition related. *

well personal I'm not going to own a weapon that i can't walk in to the store and buy ammo and not have it run right thats nuts , And I could guess the kind of response  my buddy would get if the 3 or 4 K pistol he shipped wouldn't run the ammo his costumer bought at the local  shop , I'm thinking it's going on and overnight flight to his house , that you need to tune your ammo to the pistol isn't going to fly

I also load Nosler 185 to 1.19-1.20   with great results using V V N 310.

Exactly.  They work.  Bullets and powder.  Unique or Bullseye is all I've ever used for my various .45's (except for some AA5 or something my brother left me - I used it up, shot up the rounds and then went back to my Unique and Bullseye.)

Never had an issue with 230 grain bullets either.  Lead or jacketed.  There's something satisfying about casting your own bullets, sizing/lubing/reloading and then shooting them.

Angus, I hear ya... but take a pill for a moment would ya. I think your talking from a defensive posture. Your carry side arm. My carries all can feed anything pulled off the shelf. There's also a class of shooters that are collectors and do not want the integrety of their collectables diminished. This is what I'm addressing when I suggest tuning your ammunition to your gun.......

Thanks for the input 1911smith...I am still having problems with anything other then round nose in my XDm...the last ones i tryed some Rainier FP 185 gr
same powder load as before but at a longer 1.210 OAL and they feed now but don't eject, get case mouth hung up at top of breech.
The 1.207's would not feed and hang up in the breech cocked towards upper inner.
Now my Kimber Ultra Carry eats everyting so far.I ran out of brass so need to try someting else next on the XDm besides RN slugs.

Not enough slide velocity to cycle. That's why case mouth is hanging. Slide isn't blown back far enough, result is slide short cycling and that's why your case is hanging up. One school of thought is to up your powder load.

I don't often share my loads because everyone should do their own work. You shouldn't trust others load advice. especially mine because I tend to transpose numbers. Turn numbers around, sometimes upside down and occasionally backwards. It can happen when your meds mis fire, trust me..... I think you get my point.

The Ranier 200 grain flat point shown at 1.195  has a 5.2 grain charge of Titegroup. It cycled just fine in my XD45c.

Loading for my XD was not the same as loading for my 1911s.......

Now that said. Several have chimed in to say they have one load that works in all of their guns...... and I commend them for it. But, thats a one size fits all approach. I don't like pounding my wrists or my pistols if I don't have to. I could have made a hot 230 grain ball load at 1.260 that would have fed in all my push feed and control feed 45s.

If thats what you want, fine. Your saving money and have the same stuff you can buy off the shelf. Me,  I like to custom load for each gun, each task, and minimize wear on both myself and my weapon when ever possible.

Let me know if you try that load and how you like it. very accurate.

Thanks

I have been shooting XD9s for almost 5 years but I wouldn't buy an XD45 because of it's sensitivity to what it likes to eat.

My TRP has been great so I stick with that for 45.

What is your experience with Speer Gold Dots for loading?

I wonder if Springfield modified anything in their new XDm 45s?

Gold Dots when they were called " Flying Ash trays " were problematic for 1911s. CoSteve has a picture of one. They seated short and the ogive was boxy. Ammunition manufacturers departed from manufacture for control feed back in the 80's and haven't come back to manufacture for control feed until mid - 2000. Speer changing the design of their Gold Dot is the example I use to make the case. Push feed set ups such as Sig took over and most just thought the 1911 would go away. Well as we know it didn't and ammo manufactures have come back to it.

A gun smith's dream come true. So now you have those that don't differentiate the two types of feed systems and respective ammunition and make statements like, " I won't own a gun that won't feed anything." To make an extremely long story short. A crafty, shifty eyed, ill-tempered gunsmith got to work studying 1911 design and it's feed evolution from beginning to end and as a result summized a feed angle combination that would feed any workable oal.
 
The 1911 isn't any where near the pistol today in context of feed angles as it was in 1911. Feed angles  were much more forgiving and deeper. You can thank trial lawyers for today's fully suppoorted 1911 barrels. This gunsmith's approach tho' different than original 1911 angles is a more forgiving angle and keeps barrel supported more than original 1911 barrel.

So, yes Gold Dots are fine. For your 1911 it's important to keep your oal above 1.20. I went on a measuring spree a while back at the fun store and only found one brand under 1.20. It was 1.195 oal. A stock Colt 1911 has a short feed ramp and doesn't really like anything under about 1.230 and needs a generous ogive to aid in the controlled transition from magazine to feed ramp.



As for the trusty XD(m).No change to feed is made. Keep your shorter oal bullets around the 1.20 mark with lighter charges or powder charges in the upper scale for longer coal and the XD(M) hasn't a care in the world for feed. Keep in mind recoil springs in the XD (m) line up are rated for +P loads. So when reloading for the short slide variations you have to power up. 5" tactical models have lighter recoil springs available from Springer Precision.

Xd(m)s departure from the XD is the fact you no longer have to engage trigger to release slide and they made a change to ensure the barrel could not climb on top locking block like the XD could.

I have a 2008 or older XD45 and have no problems with it running any type of ammo. My departments issued 230gr gold dot ammo to us as duty ammo I never had a problem with that ammo. I have also used most ammo out there on the market with this pistol and so far have has less problems with the XD then I did with my Glock. My Glock hated magtec ammo or any type of cheap JHP.  XD has ran off of what ever I gave it even rounds that $2,000 1911 that was a combat pistol would that would make the gun go click I'd pick that round up and it would go bang in my XD45.

Thanks for posting

Tayou1,

Why do you think your XD fed ammunition your Glocks didn't feed ? Could it have been the difference in bore axis ? XD has a high bore axis where Glock has a low bore axis. While a low bore axis absorbs recoil better. Hi bore axis feeds easier.


\sent to gateway

My XD45 does not like the Rainier FP 185 gr bullets.

But works fine with any JHP bullet we have used so far....

Well said (and TRUE)...

A quality gun will not puke if fed common, store bought ammo.

This isn't about a well built gun feeding common store bought ammunition. This thread is about custom tuning your ammunition to your well built gun so PLEASE DON"T TROLL the thread. Thank You.


<eta> this isn't the store bought ammunition forum. This is called Reloading Forum. Please save your antics for General Discussion.


IM inbound.


I did about a year ago a series on tuning your 1911. It covered feed ramp angle adjustment. I can clearly see I need to post those again and gateway them to perhaps the gunsmithing forum here in the Armory. My threads were never tacked and allowed to archive because there is no moderator to that forum and a suitable replacement has not been found due to his departure from this life. For any one wanting to turn this into my guns, better than your gun. TROLL SOME PLACE ELSE. Thank You.

I'd be interested in seeing that again

hey 1911 smith

Push/pull type of feeds.  Looked pretty hard and found nada.

Up for a brief intoro?

Control feed vs Push feed
as explained by Larry Potterfield of MidwayUSA

Larry Potterfield video stream

Great, thought-provoking post.  I started re-loading at the same time I switched from 1911s to a SIG P220... so far, no problems but maybe the SIG is just making my re-loading look good?

You can whine and cry all you wish but it does not change the fact that a 'well built' and proper gun WILL feed and function properly with common store bought ammo. If it does not - The gun needs to be sent off for repair / adjustment.

I can just see some poor guy trying to 'tune' a case of brand new, winchester 230grain ball to work correctly in his 1911 with a tight chamber! LOL!

The correct solution is to send the gun off for repair if the gun does not function with common 'in-spec' ammo.  

Almost always, I can lead a horse to water and it will drink. Then..... there is the occasional that just doesn't get the walk is about water, not  design or shape of the trough. I just would rather shoot the damn thing than try and explain any further.

So, maybe the horse can lead the rider to water this time. Please humor me and explain what common, in spec ammo is ?

If you can explain in spec ammunition, then would you try and explain what an "in spec" 1911 is ?

Thank You in advance. I'd been awaiting your response since my email to you.


<eta> Would you also mind explaining tolerance stack too ? Need some help understanding what effect tolerence stacking has on some types of defensive hand gun ammunition. If you could help me in all these things...I could quit my whining and crying......................

Didnt you already answer that in your OP?

I am confused. It seems you defined common, in spec as a 1911 that shoots WWB.  And if it doesn't, it is a gun problem.

What does a video of push feed vs controlled round feeding bolt action rifles have to do with  1911 feeding issues?

I  have never really looked at the XD, but are you saying the XD has a Mauser-type non-rotating claw extractorr?????

I guess because I sent him an IM asking what the difference was, and Smith - good guy that he is - was kind enough to post it.

His spellin ain't real good, but he sure can cipher and reload

Well...

All I got to say about all this is:

THANK-YOU 1911, I found the info you provided to be interesting & thought provoking.
I shoot 200g LSWC's & they do give me headaches from time to time.
Next time I load a batch, I'll play around with the OAL a bit.  

Since the feed issues for me are most of the time in on 1911, and rarely in another,
I (perhaps mistakenly) attributed it to a "tight match chamber".  Maybe... the length needs adjusting.

I am just starting to peak into  the idea of lead instead of jacketed bullets for my 1911 kimber tactical II full size. I am curious do you change out springs to accomadate different loads or do you always use a certain recoil spring? I had a problem with the original recoil spring it was so weak that it would not even extract a round out of the wilson combat mags so I bought a 16lb wilson spring bingo no more problems. I have seen many different weights in the springs so curious do you switch out to load different? love the bullet info you posted thanks for that info!

Originally posted by NA_Wreckdiver


Just remember your go to spec is WWB, Winchester White Ball. It is the definition of in spec 45acp ammunition.
Height being between 1.260 and 1.265 with a case mouth diameter of .470 to .471

Your shooting 200 grain lswc. I'm going to guess a bullet diameter of .452 as most lswc is. That's going to give a case mouth diameter of .472 at least. Easy solution. Make some rounds your next batch. Remove barrel from 1911, hold barrel chamber up and drop a bullet in. If it goes plunk your good. If it hangs or drags in any way you have two choices. Ream your chamber. Or, FCD. I've done both and suggest FCD route. Here's a link.
lswc and fcd

Originally posted by Bubbatheredneck


Why, yes. Thank You for pointing out. We talked about the definition of in spec ammunition and using it to determine if your 1911 may have a feed problem. Meaning, if your 1911 won't feed this.... Chances are your 1911 is out of spec.
But, hey. I'll be fair to AR15tech-guy.... He didn't read the opinion piece through from beginning and subsequently his rear end went through the door before his mouth had time to catch up...... I most certainly am guilty of this at times. No big deal

Originally posted by Bubbatheredneck


That's the only good demo I could find and really doesn't pertain to what we are doing with 1911s and 45acp at all...... Except......
The video relates in theory of where we are going next.....This is one of those threads that's snowballed as we go. Requiring more information than I quite frankly can explain. My gift has never been with words.... as Maryland_Shooter points to spelling.... Thanks brother.....

I bought a Glock 34 last week and since sometimes I can't put theory to words. I can show in pictures. So get ready for a picture heavy explanation of feed variances and what each requires in OAL. Hopefully done and up this week end.

What's in your range bag ??


Pictured is Wilson spring caddy along with various Wolff springs. Changing recoil weight to match your load is necessary when running reduced loads. When you experience cycling problems on your reduced charges that's a sure sign to switch to lower spring. However.... your over looking a spring. Your main spring will most often need to be reduced as well. Derek45 is an action shooter. See his post in this thread. On real wimpy light loads I have run as light a set up as 17lb main spring with 14lb recoil spring. 17lb and 14lb set up runs like a five gaited Anerican Saddlebred with charges on bottom of recommended load scale.

<eta> wrong, Derek45's post is not in thread..... Some where I remember him saying he was running a 12 or 14 with one of his action shooting loads. Maybe he'll confirm.

Thank you, I have a set of springs in several weights that was given to me in a roll out bag similar to yours some are wolf and also wilson Now I need to find where oh where did I put it? I will read into this more thanks for all the info.

I think.........

Never took you for a Glock man. I have nothing against them, but I bought a few "plastic" guns from the SA XD line.  One of my favs is a 45 XD compact I overpaid for from a self-described "cow-hauler" out West somewhere

+1

You remind us all of an excelent point and some of us tend to forget that the gun is as important to reloading as the powder and the bullet used.

I load 45 acp, I only use jacketed bullets mostly hornady and have had no problems with feeding in 1911 models from various manufacturers.

I dont think i have shot any of mine through a glock or an xd as of yet.  But if I do I will start over with my loads to make sure theywork properly.

Great info.

Beware of the WWB ammo out now.  It is not nearly as consistent as the WWB of two years ago.

Some good info here, thanks for all the input.

Looks like you posted exactly what I would have.

thanks for all the information, I'm just getting into reloading (for 9mm and .45 oddly enough) and stuff like this helps alot.

cheers.  

No, he is saying the 1911 has a Mauser style extractor that isn't supposed to "snap" over the rim of the case like the push feed Remmy. This is why the ammo COL and other factors play such a huge roll in reloading for the 1911.
Correct me if I'm wrong 1911smith, but wasn't the 1911 designed around the 230g ball ammo? This is why the WWB ammo is the "standard" to go by. Today, we use many different bullet styles and profiles that require some tinkering to conform to the feed ramp angles.
1911smith, please re-post the artical for us. I read it when you posted it originally but need to re-read it.
KB

KB, I did an in detail photo op some time ago showing each stage of feed process in 9mm 1911 -vs- 9mm Glock. But, I think it was posted in an OP piece belonging to someone. I'll see if I can find article again. In no way was I comparing extractors from rifle to pistol. It was the feed principle that needed to be shown. Push Pull -vs- Control Feed. Photos of pistol were perfect for showing difference and why reloading for both is a bit different. Give me a week or so and I'll post on this thread.

Dude - are you up that early every day!??