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Posted: 3/29/2010 10:53:42 PM EDT
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Since this comes up often, bon apetite.
Missouri Bullet Company and Lee FCD. 
Belled case mouth to .473. 
Notice bullet bevel. 
See how nice it fits inside of case mouth. .473 is enough to seat and not over work your case mouth. Have loaded some of my brass 30 - 40 times. 
Seating bullet, at full stroke here. Notice my gap from shell plate to die. I'm seating the bullet to point that crimp " just " starts to close bell on case mouth. 
Cartridge before fcd. Turned upside down in gage, won't fall free. Incidently this is one that was properly tapered crimped. 
Top view of same cartridge. 
This is what it shoud look like in case gage. 
It should drop free when turned upside down. Diameter is now less than .472. I like mine at .471 after moderate to light FCD. FCD set per Lee instructions. 
I clean bullet lube off each bullet. Yep, that's OCD in true AR form. 
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I know it's discussed a lot. I'm just not seeing it. I clean with gun oil and brass brush. Followed with a bore snake. Repeat until clean. 10 minutes maybe on a barrel that' s run 200 to 500. Stubborn lead can be removed with Kroil Oil. As to accuracy. They aren't Zero bullets or .451 jacketed. MOBUCO has consistancy issues with regard to diameter and weight. ($33.00 for 500)
25 yards. I still have issues with thumbing and tightening grip when squeezing trigger. Somehow for cheap bullets they found way to target. 
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| Thanks for that write up. As you know I just got a 45 and will soon be reloading for it. This not only helps me but the other who have asked the same question recently about lead and FCD. I am right there with you, MBC is for cheap plinking and fun. I ordered some PowerBonded plated bullets to load up first for my 45. I got those because I wanted to try some out and they were not that expensive. I havent seen alot of leading in my 9mm that I have used MBC bullets in and it really doesnt take much to clean it out. Kroil and a brass brush usually gets it good then run a few fmj through it and good as new. |
| What kind of powder charge are you using? I find with every lead load I've tried, I have to use fairly light loads. If I go above 3.5gr or so of Bullseye with the 200gr SWCs I get significant leading near the chamber throat. Basically, if I exceed 775 fps or so, I get leading. If I exceed 825, I get *severe* leading. |
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Quoted:
What kind of powder charge are you using? I find with every lead load I've tried, I have to use fairly light loads. If I go above 3.5gr or so of Bullseye with the 200gr SWCs I get significant leading near the chamber throat. Basically, if I exceed 775 fps or so, I get leading. If I exceed 825, I get *severe* leading. Have my pet loads and warm loads. Pictured above in previous post, ^ have 5.2 grains Titegroup @ 1.240. No significant leading issues. Here's a sampling of 45acp I load. 
If your having leading issues, there is of course more bullets in the barn you can load. Pictured are Hornady 185 gr XTP, 200 gr swc "combat" bullets, Berry 185 gr swc, 185 gr hbrn, Ranier 185 gr hp, and of course MOBUCO 200 grain lswc. There are different brands of powder you can try. Pictured loads are loaded with Hodgdon Titegroup, IMR4756, and VihtaVuori N320. There are many good powders for 45acp than mentioned. MOBUCO also makes brinell 12, and 18. Switch if your leading. Point being there are different tools required for different jobs. Such is case with bullets. I said some time back " I would never load lead again. " Too big a pain in the ass and it is compared to plated or jacketed. That is until plated got to be twice the cost of MOBUCO lead. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
What kind of powder charge are you using? I find with every lead load I've tried, I have to use fairly light loads. If I go above 3.5gr or so of Bullseye with the 200gr SWCs I get significant leading near the chamber throat. Basically, if I exceed 775 fps or so, I get leading. If I exceed 825, I get *severe* leading. Have my pet loads and warm loads. Pictured above in previous post, ^ have 5.2 grains Titegroup @ 1.240. No significant leading issues. Here's a sampling of 45acp I load. http://s660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/daclark1911/45sampling001.jpg http://s660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/daclark1911/45sampling002.jpg If your having leading issues, there is of course more bullets in the barn you can load. Pictured are Hornady 185 gr XTP, 200 gr swc "combat" bullets, Berry 185 gr swc, 185 gr hbrn, Ranier 185 gr hp, and of course MOBUCO 200 grain lswc. There are different brands of powder you can try. Pictured loads are loaded with Hodgdon Titegroup, IMR4756, and VihtaVuori N320. There are many good powders for 45acp than mentioned. MOBUCO also makes brinell 12, and 18. Switch if your leading. Point being there are different tools required for different jobs. Such is case with bullets. I said some time back " I would never load lead again. " Too big a pain in the ass and it is compared to plated or jacketed. That is until plated got to be twice the cost of MOBUCO lead. I've used the 18 Brinnell bullets, still get leading with anything but anemic loads. I've tried Bullseye and Universal with lead. Unique is problematic because it will never meter well. My gun also won't reliably feed cartridges loaded with .452" lead bullets. Lee FCD sizes the lead bullets down to .451, but I think this promotes leading. I'm not willing to get my chamber reamed...so lead just doesn't work well for me. I've also had horrible luck loading 38 special with lead bullets in my GP100 with respect to leading. Me and unjacketed, unplated lead bullets do not have a good relationship. |
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Mark IV, Series 80. Colt Combat Elite. It was redone and handed down a generation this year. Roque4 grew up shooting this pistol. With help from my friend Jason of Perkins Custom, we re-worked it before giving to my son. Sights changed, with Heinie in front and Novak rear. Slide had to be dove-tailed for front sight as it was made for staked post sight. Sides re-polished somewhat and re-blued. Rogue wanted the original coco-bola grips. It was my first 1911, the one all the horror stories are based on. Also my first attempt at having a self done semi-custom.
It was smithed for .451 lswc and I didn't under stand that.. All the magazines it came with were wad cutter mags. Feeding ball was trouble some to say the least. Feeding .452 lead was a night mare. Combined with a Loadmaster press and no clue to it's design or theory. No comprehension of how to set up dies.... not sure the FCD had come about yet.... For the life of me I could not figure how to get this pistol to properly feed. Couldn't reload my way out of a paper bag either. It combined with the spin you around until your dizzy and money starts flying out your pockets approach I got from retailers "in the know" and sheisters posed as gun smiths. Both press and pistol were shut away in closet for some years. Pistol saw day light first, press many years later...........................................Your looking at the motivation behind the threads I do here at AR15. 
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Smith - you may not be able to spell all the words right, but you sure do put them together pretty well and I do say - you are one funny SOB - you get me to laugh like hell with the vision of $ flying out of your pockets, being preyeed upon by so called gunsmiths. What makes it funnier is I have been there and know exactly what you mean. If you want an expert you can trust, become one.
Confused as a termite in a yo-yo, but hell - that's the way to learn on the fly. I'm still pissed off I used 6½ primers instead of the 7½ ones. Dumb ass 
Pretty 1911 - and a good story as well. |
| I shoot a ton of Mo bullet comanies bullets. One difference is I never use the LFC die with lead bullets. Only jacketed. See those shiny rings on your loaded brass? That's where your brass and bullet where squeezed down to a reduced diameter. If they shoot good in your gun then good for you, but I have tested lead bullet ammo loaded with and without the LFC die and got increased fouling when using the LFC die. Might not be the case in your pistol but it was in my Kimber. |
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We, we being Arfcom reloading forum have had and will continue to have this debate for infinity. Your point of "shiny" rings is noted as it's obvious bullet swaging is occuring in case. Before FCD our only option for inconsistant.452 diamater lead was chamber reaming. Contrary to what you "believe" there isn't a general consensus on chamber diamater between barrel makers.I want as tight a gas seal as possible for accuracy and I want to run jacketed .451 ammunition through same barrel. Also you stated you were leading ? What velocity ? Because I'm running 850+fps with zero leading issue. Bottom line.. For those of us with tight chambered barrels wanting to load MOBUCO and not enlarge chamber diamater. Lee's FCD is our option and if what your doing works for you don't change a thing. This thread was done for those loading MOBUCO and rounds not fitting their chambers. There is also a debate that case swaging affects accuracy.. Not seeing merit with that arguement either. Your Kimbers chamber diamater obviously works well for you in conjuction with taper crimping. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: I shoot a ton of Mo bullet comanies bullets. One difference is I never use the LFC die with lead bullets. Only jacketed. See those shiny rings on your loaded brass? That's where your brass and bullet where squeezed down to a reduced diameter. If they shoot good in your gun then good for you, but I have tested lead bullet ammo loaded with and without the LFC die and got increased fouling when using the LFC die. Might not be the case in your pistol but it was in my Kimber. Actually, that FCD is what is making all of the cast bullets uniform in diameter without having to run each one through a sizer. I use the FCD and put just enough crimp on it to fit into my barrel, no more, no less. When I pull my cast bullets and measure them, they come out .452... (and many were over that before loading). I do this with my own cast bullets as well as MOBUCO... |
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............. Lee FCD sizes the lead bullets down to .451, ..................... Yep, in many cases it does. If the 45acp brass is .010" thick and the base ring on the Lee Factory Crimp Die is .472" in diameter (like mine is) a .452 bullet will just clear the base ring without being resized. –– .010" x 2 + .452" = .472" However, a lot of 45acp brass measures somewhere between .010" and .0105", and that .0105" brass will cause a .452" lead bullet to get swaged down to .451" –– .0.0105" x 2 + .452" = .473" The 45acp LFCD with .452" lead bullets is an excellent place to use that ultra thin RP nickle brass (.009" - .010") but using any other brass with the 45acp LFCD and .452" lead is a crap shoot. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I shoot a ton of Mo bullet comanies bullets. One difference is I never use the LFC die with lead bullets. Only jacketed. See those shiny rings on your loaded brass? That's where your brass and bullet where squeezed down to a reduced diameter. If they shoot good in your gun then good for you, but I have tested lead bullet ammo loaded with and without the LFC die and got increased fouling when using the LFC die. Might not be the case in your pistol but it was in my Kimber. Actually, that FCD is what is making all of the cast bullets uniform in diameter without having to run each one through a sizer. I use the FCD and put just enough crimp on it to fit into my barrel, no more, no less. When I pull my cast bullets and measure them, they come out .452... (and many were over that before loading). I do this with my own cast bullets as well as MOBUCO... If a box of commercial cast bullets is filled with varying diameters of bullets, I'd buy a different brand. That's poor QC. |
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Quoted: You'll get no argument as to QC. That's kind of the premise of my OP. Everyone who uses MOBUCO likes the accuracy, but more importantly likes the price. For $36.00 a box of 500 (45acp). I think we'll keep suffering with our FCD's. Actually, for me, once the ones I have are gone, they're gone... (I've since started casting my own) |
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Quoted: You'll get no argument as to QC. That's kind of the premise of my OP. Everyone who uses MOBUCO likes the accuracy, but more importantly likes the price. For $36.00 a box of 500 (45acp). I think we'll keep suffering with our FCD's. I'm not sure how accuracy would be possible if there was significant variance in weight or size. As best as I can figure, it's costing me about $4-$5 per 500 bullets(.45 ACP 200 gr HP), all sized to .452" plus or minus a couple of tenths. 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
You'll get no argument as to QC. That's kind of the premise of my OP. Everyone who uses MOBUCO likes the accuracy, but more importantly likes the price. For $36.00 a box of 500 (45acp). I think we'll keep suffering with our FCD's. I'm not sure how accuracy would be possible if there was significant variance in weight or size. As best as I can figure, it's costing me about $4-$5 per 500 bullets(.45 ACP 200 gr HP), all sized to .452" plus or minus a couple of tenths. http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/imakechips/bullets/PIC_0182.jpg I'm certainly not the foremost authority on reloading -or- gunsmithing. I am an authority on what it takes to make my Colt 1911s run and run well. While they are not the best 1911s on the range, they usually gain attention and I never have to make excuses for accuracy or the way they feed. I simply try to share what I have learned from running my guns and the components I use. I don't advocate any particular brand of anything but get frustrated with those that discount what I know to work. I can't say that your points aren't valid, because they are. I will simply state there's more than one way to skin a cat. I keep an open mind to opposing views and suggest to you that's the way we learn. Quoted:
LOL! Still using it! Evidently my cast bullets aren't all that superior to MOBUCO... but they work just as well and are dirt cheap! I knew that to be tha case tbonfie. All the casters I have taken the opportunity to visit with report use of fcd. If I didn't work 80+ hours a week I would take up casting. I'm lucky to have an hour or two to reload these days. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You'll get no argument as to QC. That's kind of the premise of my OP. Everyone who uses MOBUCO likes the accuracy, but more importantly likes the price. For $36.00 a box of 500 (45acp). I think we'll keep suffering with our FCD's. I'm not sure how accuracy would be possible if there was significant variance in weight or size. As best as I can figure, it's costing me about $4-$5 per 500 bullets(.45 ACP 200 gr HP), all sized to .452" plus or minus a couple of tenths. http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/imakechips/bullets/PIC_0182.jpg I'm certainly not the foremost authority on reloading -or- gunsmithing. I am an authority on what it takes to make my Colt 1911s run and run well. While they are not the best 1911s on the range, they usually gain attention and I never have to make excuses for accuracy or the way they feed. I simply try to share what I have learned from running my guns and the components I use. I don't advocate any particular brand of anything but get frustrated with those that discount what I know to work. I can't say that your points aren't valid, because they are. I will simply state there's more than one way to skin a cat. I keep an open mind to opposing views and suggest to you that's the way we learn. Quoted: LOL! Still using it! Evidently my cast bullets aren't all that superior to MOBUCO... but they work just as well and are dirt cheap! I knew that to be tha case tbonfie. All the casters I have taken the opportunity to visit with report use of fcd. If I didn't work 80+ hours a week I would take up casting. I'm lucky to have an hour or two to reload these days. What you're doing evidently works for you. I've never had a failure with any handgun because of an oversize bullet, and that includes all the commercial cast bullets I sent downrange before I took up casting. I look at the FCD as a crutch, because if a cartridge is too big to chamber then it's probably due to some other factor, such as an "oversize" bullet. I'd rather eliminate the problem at the source than introduce another variable. With the FCD, final bullet diameter is determined by brass thickness. If handgun brass is as variable as rifle brass, then you could be seeing one or two thousandths(or more) variance in final bullet size from one brand of case to another. In my case, my 1911 runs fine and shoots well with a .452" bullet using standard dies and whatever brass I pull out of the storage bin. My eighty year old 1917 S&W needs larger bullets(cast). The FCD would absolutely ruin loads for the 1917, and might cause me problems with the 1911 that I don't currently have. If it works for you, keep doing it. I'm simply suggesting that there might be a better way. 
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Your point noted. I would be most curious to know what your chamber diamater is in the 1911 you don't have. If I kept a dedicated 1911 with a chamber reamed for .452 lswc I wouldn't need fdc. I run as much .451 through my 1911s as .452. I've never considered fcd a "crutch". Rather a tool of considerable value. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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