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Posted: 11/13/2002 4:14:38 PM EDT
Do I need to go through an FFl on my end or can I ship direct to the purchasers FFL.

Thanks
in Advance
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 4:27:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By elohim1:
Do I need to go through an FFl on my end or can I ship direct to the purchasers FFL.

Thanks
in Advance




That's like suspenders and a belt///some know the laws. Most don't hence the 2 end FFL swap.

IMHO

You dont need an FFL to sell, only to buy from an owner in a different state (mostly).

Link Posted: 11/13/2002 4:28:07 PM EDT
elohim1 You first need to receive a signed FFL from the dealer you are shipping to. Then obtain a signed FFL from your local transfer dealer and send it to the licensed FFL holder in the other state with the pistol.

THISISME
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 4:28:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2002 6:28:22 PM EDT by ProfGAB101]
direct to the purchasers FFL

But UPS requires handguns to be shipped Red Label (overnite).

Also, sometimes UPS has ask the person to provide a copy of the destination FFL. I don't know if this is Corp policy or just for one area.

edited to add: Was required, Supervisor checked: L.A. County, CA
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 4:32:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By THISISME:
elohim1 You first need to receive a signed FFL from the dealer you are shipping to. Then obtain a signed FFL from your local transfer dealer and send it to the licensed FFL holder in the other state with the pistol.

THISISME



Perhaps...IMHO

You don't need an FFL to sell,(around here)only NOT to buy...Instacheck and all.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 4:43:21 PM EDT
DoubleYouDoubleYou, You don’t need a signed FFL to transfer ownership from a seller in one state to a buyer who lives and is currently out of state?

That’s news to me.

THISISME
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 4:55:42 PM EDT
FFL to FFL looks like the safe way to go.
Thanks all for youre help.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 5:30:39 PM EDT
Good God!! I really wish people would refrain from posting answers to questions they don't understand.

An unlicensed person may ship directly to a valid FFL holder. Further, a valid FFL holder is NOT required to provide a copy of his license to an unlicensed person. An unlicensed person must use a contract carrier (i.e., Federal Express, UPS, etc.) to ship a handgun, vice the Postal Service. AS A MATTER OF POLICY, and their POLICIES are NOT the LAW, UPS and Federal Express require handguns to be shipped overnight (that is, if you declare your contents as such to them). If a UPS employee tries to buffalo you into showing them a copy of an FFL, tell 'em to KISS YOUR ASS. That is NOT required by law, nor is it a policy of theirs. Start getting the appropriate supervisors involved. I've gone head-to-head with those assfaces before and always came out on top. There's no reason to take any shit off of them.

Some FFL holders, however, whether as a matter of policy or ignorance, require that any transfers of firearms come from another FFL holder. This is purely discretionary on their part and you cannot force them to receive and transfer a firearm if they choose not to do so.

Finally, if anyone cares to disagree with me on this matter, back it up with some FACTS. Refrain from posting any BULLSHIT that will unnecessarily cost someone money or cause them hassle. Savvy?
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 6:04:07 PM EDT
Jim_Dandy, A licensed person has always sent me or my transfer dealer a signed copy of their FFL to give to my transfer dealer before I ship the firearm to the buyers FFL along with a copy of my dealers signed FFL. No exceptions ever on out of state purchases and both dealers have always insisted that it be so and I have made dozens of out of state transfers over during past few years.

I can and have sent firearms out of state to a manufacturer for warranty work or to get some custom work done to a firearm and have done so without an FFL.
But that is a different story altogether.

I don’t see you providing any proof and I don’t have any either, just lots of experience.

elohim1, Talk to your local dealer and I’m sure he will back me up on this one and his opinion is the only one that really matters because the pistol has to go through him before it ever gets to you.

Oh and buy the way. I know Elohim and you are no Elohim.

THISISME
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 6:20:22 PM EDT

Jim_Dandy, A licensed person has always sent me or my transfer dealer a signed copy of their FFL to give to my transfer dealer before I ship the firearm to the buyers FFL along with a copy of my dealers signed FFL. No exceptions ever on out of state purchases and both dealers have always insisted that it be so and I have made dozens of out of state transfers over during past few years.

I can and have sent firearms out of state to a manufacturer for warranty work or to get some custom work done to a firearm and have done so without an FFL.
But that is a different story altogether.

I don’t see you providing any proof and I don’t have any either, just lots of experience.


Your experience doesn't mean much. You've only shown a lack of understanding. If a transfer is between licensees, then copies of the license are exchanged. If the transfer is between a licensee and an unlicensed person, then the licensee is NOT REQUIRED to provide you a copy of his license (HINT: NOT REQUIRED DOES NOT MEAN THAT A LICENSEE WON'T PROVIDE A COPY).

From the BATF website:

(F8) In transactions between licensees, how is the seller assured that a purchaser of a firearm is a licensed dealer? [Back]

Verification must be established by the transferee furnishing to the transferor a certified copy of the transferee's license and by any other means the transferor deems necessary. [27 CFR 178.94]




B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]


A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her state, if the buyer is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a licensee in any state. A firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]


Nowhere does it state that a licensee is required to provide an unlicensed person with a copy of his license. If, for instance it was required, you'd have to get a copy of a license EVERYTIME you sent a firearm back for repair (if the shipment went insterstate). Since you seem intent on playing the wiseass, I'll pull up and post the text to the sections of the GCA that have been referred to here. In the mean time, please refrain from posting any BULLSHIT.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 6:46:40 PM EDT

§ 178.94 Sales or deliveries between licensees.
A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer
selling or otherwise disposing of firearms, and a licensed collector
selling or otherwise disposing of curios or relics, to another licensee
shall verify the identity and licensed status of the transferee prior to
making the transaction . Verification shall be established by the
transferee furnishing to the transferor a certified copy of the
transferee's license and by such other means as the transferor deems
necessary: Provided, That it shall not be require d (a) for a transferee
who has furnished a certified copy of its license to a transferor to again
furnish such certified copy to that transferor during the term of the
transferee's current license , (b) for a licensee to furnish a certified
copy of its license to another licensee if a firearm is being returned
either directly or through another licensee to such licensee an d (c) for
licensees o f multilicensed business organizations to furnish certified
copies of their licenses to other licensed locations operated by such
organization : Provided further, That a multilicensed business organization
may furnish to a transferor, in lieu of a certified copy of each license,
a list, certified to be true, correct and complete, containing the name,
address, license number, and the date of license expiration of each
licensed location operated by such organization, and the transferor may
sell or otherwise dispose of firearms as provided by this section to any
licensee appearing on such list without requiring a certified copy of a
license therefrom. A transferor licensee who has the certified
information required by this section may sell or dispose of firearms to a
licensee for not more than 45 days following the expiration date of the
transferee's license.




§ 178.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.
No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in
the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business
entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or
otherwise obtained by such person outside that State : Provided, That the
provisions of this section:
(a) Shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by
bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of
residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that
State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm
in that State,
(b) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a rifle or
shotgun obtained from a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed
dealer, or licensed collector in a State other than the transferee's State
of residence in an over -the -counter transaction at the licensee's premises
obtained in conformity with the provisions of § 178.96(c) and
(c) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm
obtained in conformity with the provisions of §§ 178.30 and 178.97.




§ 922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful -
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State
where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the
State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise
obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall
not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate
succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the
firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to
purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the
transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection
(b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any
firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;




(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport,
or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or
has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a
corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in)
the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not
apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry
out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a
firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the
laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any
person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;




(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver -(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to
believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the
licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not
apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State
other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the
transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the
sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both
such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed,
for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to
have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both
States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person
for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;


Nowhere does it indicate that a licensee is REQUIRED to provide a copy of his license to a nonlicensee. Provide FACTS and not BULLSHIT if you disagree. It is also wholly unnecessary for the shipper to be an FFL holder.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 7:01:11 PM EDT
Jim_Dandy, Go back and read the posts. This is out of state and sold to a none dealer from a none dealer. This is not warranty work. And the signed FFL is for the Lisenced dealer as I said many times

You post makes my point.

B1) would mean he needs a licensed dealer to transfer it to.

F8) And the buyer has to send a signed FFL from his local licensed dealer. In practice no dealer will receive an out of state firearm without receiving an FFL from the licensed dealer he received it from. Read my posts before you post.

Nobody said a licensee is required to provide an unlicensed person with a copy of his license. It can go to my local FFL or to me but when I am selling it usually is accompanied with a Money order so it comes to me and then I bring to my local FFL with the firearm to be transferred. Then he fills out some paper work and gives me a signed copy of his FFL that I take and ship with the rifle or pistol out of state. Understand, I don’t know how I can make it any clearer.

Some should not post when they don’t know what they are talking about. And that person is not me. because sometimes reality is a little different than what we read in books or on the internet.

elohim1, It does not make any difference what I or some Jim_Dandy says. Talk to your local dealer and he will verify what I have said and then please come on back and fill Jim_Dandy in.

THISISME

Link Posted: 11/13/2002 7:13:27 PM EDT

Jim_Dandy, Go back and read the posts. This is out of state and sold to a none dealer from a none dealer. This is not warranty work. And the signed FFL is for the Lisenced dealer as I said many times

No shit.


You post makes my point.

B1) would mean he needs a licensed dealer to transfer it to.

F8) And the buyer has to send a signed FFL from his local licensed dealer. In practice no dealer will receive an out of state firearm without receiving an FFL from the licensed dealer he received it from. Read my posts before you post.

Nobody said a licensee is required to provide an unlicensed person with a copy of his license. It can go to my local FFL or to me but when I am selling it usually is accompanied with a Money order so it comes to me and then I bring to my local FFL with the firearm to be transferred. Then he fills out some paper work and gives me a signed copy of his FFL that I take and ship with the rifle or pistol out of state. Understand, I don’t know how I can make it any clearer.

Some should not post when they don’t know what they are talking about. And that person is not me. because sometimes reality is a little different than what we read in books or on the internet.

elohim1, It does not make any difference what I or some Jim_Dandy says. Talk to your local dealer and he will verify what I have said and then please come on back and fill Jim_Dandy in.

THISISME


I can't even begin to 'cipher any of the rest of this incoherent BULLSHIT.

Here's the deal, slick. I'll type this really, really slow so you can read it.

If shipping a firearm interstate, it must be received by a licensee. If the shipment is for the purposes of a sale, then the receiving FFL holder will conduct a transfer to the buyer.

An unlicensed person is NOT required to ship a firearm via an FFL holder on HIS end. Savvy? An unlicensed person can ship a firearm, handgun or otherwise DIRECTLY to a valid FFL holder.

Here's where it gets complicated, so pay attention. The receiving FFL holder is NOT REQUIRED to provide an unlicensed person with a copy of his FFL. This requirement ONLY applies to transaction between LICENSEES.

Again, cite a regulation if you think you're right. Short of that, please do not post any BULLSHIT.

Oh, and get someone else to type your next response if it's going to be as asinine as your last.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 7:57:16 PM EDT
Heh, how's the caffeine intake today jim??

This is rather simple, as jim has explained it and of course he's 100% correct. Though, many if not most FFL's will not accept a shipment directly from a non-ffl. They are nervous and want them to be shipped through another ffl. I'm sure you can track one down that will take a shipment from a non-ffl, but.. it's not gonna be all that easy. These guys are in the business to make money, for themselves and the rest of their buddies in the (ffl) club.. :)
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:08:19 PM EDT
Jim_Dandy, Boy Jim, you sure do get riled up don’t you when you don’t know what you are talking about.

You are misunderstanding between two private parties and between two dealers and between interstate and with the state and who the sale is actually between and some dumb thing about FFL’s to private parties.

In the real world in which I live and breath. if a dealer is involved on either end of the transaction between two private parties and one lives out of state the buyer will have to send a signed copy of his transfer dealers FFL. This will end up by some means in the hands of an FFL holder on the sellers end because it will not stay with the seller. This makes the sellers FFL holder a party to the transfer. Also the receiving dealer will require a signed copy of an FFL from the licensed dealer who is now involved in the transaction on the sellers end.

This is the real world and this is the way it works regardless of what any laws say.

elohim1, Talk to your local dealer and I’m sure he will back me up on this one and his opinion is the only one that really matters because the pistol has to go through him before it ever gets to you.

END OF STORY

THISISME
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:19:42 PM EDT
Roger that Jim_Dandy!!! Glad I have gotten it right without having to find out the hard way. [>(]

Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:25:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2002 8:29:12 PM EDT by 455SD]
THISISME

I'm sorry but you are wrong and Jim is right.

The buyer does NOT have to ship the firearm through an FFL. He does have to ship it TO an FFL. Any time a gun is shipped through mail, UPS, whatever, it must be shipped TO an FFL, unless it is being shipped from an FFL back to the original owner.

If you buy a handgun from me, I have to ship it to your FFL so he can do the transfer to you. I do not have to use an FFL on my end. Period. You do not have to provide me with a copy of your signed FFL. However, I would want this for my records to show exactly who transfered my pistol. Again it is not required by law.

To make it as simple as possible, the shipper DOES NOT have to use an FFL. The reciever DOES have to use an FFL.

Now your particular FFL may have a policy where they do not recieve guns from non-FFLs, but this is not mandatory.

Does that help clear things up at all??


elohim1

You can legally ship the gun to the purchaser's FFL direct, if they will accept it. I would advise requesting a signed copy of the FFL for your records so you know where the gun went. If you don't feel comfortable shipping direct, send it through your FFL.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:27:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By elohim1:
FFL to FFL looks like the safe way to go.
Thanks all for youre help.



Waste of munny!!!
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:29:13 PM EDT
No FFL to ship from is needed...FFL's required on the buyers side only.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:30:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleYouDoubleYou:
No FFL to ship from is needed...FFL's required on the buyers side only.



Absolutly correct. Only if you feel the need to spend the money and cover your ass do you need to use an FFL.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:31:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
Good God!! I really wish people would refrain from posting answers to questions they don't understand.

An unlicensed person may ship directly to a valid FFL holder. Further, a valid FFL holder is NOT required to provide a copy of his license to an unlicensed person. An unlicensed person must use a contract carrier (i.e., Federal Express, UPS, etc.) to ship a handgun, vice the Postal Service. AS A MATTER OF POLICY, and their POLICIES are NOT the LAW, UPS and Federal Express require handguns to be shipped overnight (that is, if you declare your contents as such to them). If a UPS employee tries to buffalo you into showing them a copy of an FFL, tell 'em to KISS YOUR ASS. That is NOT required by law, nor is it a policy of theirs. Start getting the appropriate supervisors involved. I've gone head-to-head with those assfaces before and always came out on top. There's no reason to take any shit off of them.

Some FFL holders, however, whether as a matter of policy or ignorance, require that any transfers of firearms come from another FFL holder. This is purely discretionary on their part and you cannot force them to receive and transfer a firearm if they choose not to do so.

Finally, if anyone cares to disagree with me on this matter, back it up with some FACTS. Refrain from posting any BULLSHIT that will unnecessarily cost someone money or cause them hassle. Savvy?




yupper!
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:33:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By THISISME:
Jim_Dandy, A licensed person has always sent me or my transfer dealer a signed copy of their FFL to give to my transfer dealer before I ship the firearm to the buyers FFL along with a copy of my dealers signed FFL. No exceptions ever on out of state purchases and both dealers have always insisted that it be so and I have made dozens of out of state transfers over during past few years.

I can and have sent firearms out of state to a manufacturer for warranty work or to get some custom work done to a firearm and have done so without an FFL.
But that is a different story altogether.

I don’t see you providing any proof and I don’t have any either, just lots of experience.

elohim1, Talk to your local dealer and I’m sure he will back me up on this one and his opinion is the only one that really matters because the pistol has to go through him before it ever gets to you.

Oh and buy the way. I know Elohim and you are no Elohim.

THISISME





So you ware suspenders and a belt...Does that make it right?
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:37:39 PM EDT
I still say that elohim1’s buyer will be hard pressed to find a licensed dealer who will complete the transfer in a manner other than the way I have stated regardless of what the laws state. And that it is foolish to send a pistol out of state to someone simply because they claim they are an FFL holder.

And that is what really matters.

THISISME

Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:39:03 PM EDT
So basically you don't care what the law says , only your opinion really matters.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:43:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2002 8:44:35 PM EDT by SHIVAN]
204.254.113.252/

Use this to verify the address you are sending to is an FFL. BTW, the little disclaimer that pops up is for holders of the bound books (read: licensees).

Ed
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:47:16 PM EDT
455SD, If the buyer can’t find a licensed FFL who will handle the transaction according to the law on his end and I want to sell my pistol then the law doesn’t really matter does it?

THISISME
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:49:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2002 8:50:44 PM EDT by SHIVAN]
If you don't confirm that you are shipping to an FFL, then it is on you for knowingly transferring a firearm outside state lines to an individual.

Use the link I provided. Or get the phone number of the shop or individual.

You, as a private citizen, are not required to keep a bound book of records. You don't log a gun in or out. You have no need for the actual license, around here they won't give them out anyway.

Ed
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:51:55 PM EDT
SHIVAN, Great link! Thank you.

That takes care of knowing that the FFL is an FFL.

Now if he will only do the transfer according to the law instead of according to his legal council everything would be cool.

Thanx again for the link.

THISISME
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 9:17:40 PM EDT
I had a FFL for 6 years and bought Hundreds of rifles and pistols from S.O.G., Century International, CDNN and a dozen other out of state dealers. Each and every one of these FFL holders has a copy of my FFL with an original signature on it. I WASN'T REQUIRED TO AND DIDN'T GET A COPY OF THEIR FFL. That's the way it works between dealers. I listed their name and address in my bound record book and their FFL# if it was on their invoice. I did get an FFL from several local dealers that I transferred guns to,they didn't get an FFL from me.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 9:42:53 PM EDT
RELOADER-BOB, Did you ever have a transaction where you where not the purchaser and you received firearms for a non-licensed individual from a person from out of state without an accompanying signed FFL and the individual from out of state or his licensed dealer was never sent a copy of your signed FFL and you transferred the pistol to the person on your end?

Just asking because that is what seams others are recommending elohim1 should do.

I’m not saying it’s legal or illegal I’m just asking if you ever had a transaction like the one described and do you recommend sellers or buyers or other dealers do things the same way?

THISISME
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 10:01:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BuLLet:
Though, many if not most FFL's will not accept a shipment directly from a non-ffl. They are nervous and want them to be shipped through another ffl.



In my expierence, most will accept it directly from anyone, as it is legal.

We accept from anyone.

We do not send our FFL out to anyone but license holders. We point everyone else to the BATF's FFL eZcheck system. Our inspector put us on to that because of the license forgery that has been occurring out there. Any non-licensee and a computer can suddenly cause guns to go anywhere they want... Not a good thing.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 10:09:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By THISISME:
RELOADER-BOB, Did you ever have a transaction where you where not the purchaser and you received firearms for a non-licensed individual from a person from out of state without an accompanying signed FFL and the individual from out of state or his licensed dealer was never sent a copy of your signed FFL and you transferred the pistol to the person on your end?



We do and I know of many others that do. It is very common. Use FFL eZcheck and you can't get it much better.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 10:31:20 PM EDT
Budam, I had never seen the site before today and it works for me. Now if the sellers and FFL’s that sell me stuff from out of state will only abide by the law things would be great.

It would even be better if the people I sell stuff rifles and pistols to in the next few weeks found dealers that I could ship to without involving a dealer on my end. I have lived in N. Ca and Mesa, AZ and so far I have not found any out of state dealers or any out of state buyers/sellers who have not asked me to have a dealer on both ends of the transfer and I have quoted them the same laws in the distant past to no avail.

With any luck elohim1’s buyer will have a good dealer like you near him.

THISISME

Link Posted: 11/14/2002 4:58:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By budam:
In my expierence, most will accept it directly from anyone, as it is legal.

We accept from anyone.





I said it was legal to do, and I'm glad that most dealers "you" know will do it in your neck of the woods. But, where I'm from, Long Island NY, I know of none that will accept shipments from non-ffls. YMMV
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 8:41:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2002 8:42:37 AM EDT by DevL]
In the last year I have sold some 12 or so firearms both pistols and rifles out of state through the mail. The ONLY place that I was required to do FFL to FFL was New York. I told the guy it was too much trouble as I had NEVER had to do a FFL to FFL before and sold the pistol to a guy in Florida.

SOME STATES REQUIRE FFL TO FFL TRANSFERS

Most dont. I have never sold a gun FFL to FFL but one time I WAS required to send a copy of my Driver's License for some particular states laws. (Cant remeber which state it was right now)

IMHO 90% OF THE TIME YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SEND FROM AN FFL. I send rifles from a friendly Mail Boxes ETC via UPS Ground and pistols overnight from FedEx.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 10:32:19 AM EDT

SOME STATES REQUIRE FFL TO FFL TRANSFERS

Untrue.


Most dont. I have never sold a gun FFL to FFL but one time I WAS required to send a copy of my Driver's License for some particular states laws. (Cant remeber which state it was right now)

Not required by any state. That's some FFL holder talking out of his ass.


IMHO 90% OF THE TIME YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SEND FROM AN FFL. I send rifles from a friendly Mail Boxes ETC via UPS Ground and pistols overnight from FedEx.

The subject of this thread is NOT opinions, but what the law states in regards to unlicensed persons shipping firearms to licensees in other states.

Again, if you choose to disagree, please post a valid reference, not something copied and pasted from Cabela's, etc.

I would also admonish you from posting BULLSHIT. Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 10:49:14 AM EDT
FACT: Noone is NY will accept a handgun if its not FFL to FFL. I tried for over a month to find someone and all said no. There are times when you must ship FFL to FFL and NY is a place where you must do this or you will not have an FFL recieve it.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 10:59:00 AM EDT

FACT: Noone is NY will accept a handgun if its not FFL to FFL. I tried for over a month to find someone and all said no. There are times when you must ship FFL to FFL and NY is a place where you must do this or you will not have an FFL recieve it.

As stated earlier, that is a matter of policy and sometimes ignorance of the FFL holder, but not the law. I have shipped an item or two to New York state, but never did anyone require any BS regarding the sender having to hold an FFL. That's a fact as well.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 11:07:00 AM EDT
After perusing this thread, it is painfully obvious that all of these laws only breed confusion.

They are all bullshit! (I know, we must follow them, but they are still BS).

Us law abiding peasants jump through all of the man's hoops while Freddy GangBanger just steals his gat from the poor slob who just had to perform like a trained monkey to get warranty work done on his 1911.

Or, Jose "say hello to my little friend" Lowrider picks his up from the owner of the chop shop in exchange for a set of 17" BMW wheels.

They can blow me with all of these fucked up laws.

Have you seen the United States Code lately?

Down the hall in my firm's library, there are 185 individual books that make up the laws of the United States (Federal laws). That's not including court rules, updates since the publishing of the volume, C.F.R.s, or court cases interpreting those laws. I'd say on average each book has about 800 pages of law. That's over 184,000 pages of law!

Now, if you aren't daunted by the sheer volume of it all, try reading the shit. I spent three years of my life learning to read and interpret it and sometimes it's still indecipherable.

No wonder Joe Sixpack (or even trained lawyers) often have ZERO idea of just what's legal and what's not.

Makes me want to go native and live in a shack in the mountains.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 11:11:35 AM EDT
Its obvious to me that dealers who are members of AR15.COM know the laws better then those who are not.

THISISME
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 11:14:10 AM EDT

They are all bullshit!

The most correct and profound thing I've read yet.


The thing that's bad, is some unscrupulous individuals are taking advantage of most people's ignorance of the law. THAT'S the part that pisses me off most.


*NOTE*
Please don't interpret my earlier posting to mean that all UPS employees should kiss your ass, just the counter help. You can stop breaking my stuff now, 455SD.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 12:21:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2002 12:25:33 PM EDT by Kaliburz]
This was a very interesting post.

I shall bookmark that link.

I guess some dealers just prefer receiving from another FFL. For the reasons of giving another business or just to save their tail if something goes wrong.....

Link Posted: 11/14/2002 4:15:00 PM EDT

*NOTE*
Please don't interpret my earlier posting to mean that all UPS employees should kiss your ass, just the counter help. You can stop breaking my stuff now, 455SD.



Don't worry Jim. I would never take offense to any of your crap.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 5:23:10 PM EDT

Don't worry Jim. I would never take offense to any of your crap.

I've always thought it was a tad more cerebral than crap. However, I'm glad you have a tough hide.
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