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Posted: 10/31/2002 12:41:35 PM EDT
First let me say that I don't want any polymer receivers. My project (in my head only right now) is as follows:
1) SP1 lower. I would think that lack of fence around the mag well would save you a couple of ounces.
2) Old Style upper. I mean with no forward assist, and A1 sights. Who ever actually adjusts their sights anyway?
3) 4 Position Stock. I'm actually torn on this one, as I've seen the new (?) Ace Skeleton Stock ([url}http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/buttstocks/skeletonstock.asp,and wonder if that wouldn't be lighter. Anyone know? Of course, the 4-Pos gives you a more compact configuration anyway.
4) Pencil Barrel. Bushmaster is selling a 16" lightweight barrel in pre-ban config (]www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/abbl-16sla.asp). I'm thinking this would fit my needs nicely.

That should about do it. Might put a trijicon front post in just for fun. I figure that should about do it as a go-anywhere do-anything type gun. And its the opposite of the boat anchors I see at most shoots these days! lol
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 1:08:13 PM EDT
I've been considering building the same type of "urban carbine." I have been tweaking one of my other guns for a long time, trying to get it lighter and lighter. I have found that the overwhelming majority of weight savings is in the barrel. I even had an HBAR barrel fluted, but it still weighed more than my M4 barrel. Then I noticed that Bushy thin barrel. Cool idea. I just purchased a preban lower to get the whole project started.

As for stocks, I like the A1 fixed. I find the folding stocks pretty useless. I mean really, I'll probably never fire the gun wearing any body armour and I have no need to try and fold up the gun into a briefcase. The fixed stock doesn't weigh that much more.

Link Posted: 10/31/2002 1:37:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2002 7:25:53 PM EDT by lojack]
hummm i have held a para-ordinance (sp) that was extremely light and compact. Have you looked at those? they come with a ss fluted barrel. sorry it is a Professional Ordanance. they are <cartman voice> hella cool <end cartman voice> 3 lbs is true. if you want light, that is the way to go.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 2:22:58 PM EDT
Sounds like you got it figured out.

How much that Bushy pencil upper go for?
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 2:37:25 PM EDT

hummm i have held a para-ordinance (sp) that was extremely light and compact.
Compared to an AR, it should be.

Para-Ordnance makes pistols.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 3:39:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lojack:
hummm i have held a para-ordinance (sp) that was extremely light and compact. Have you looked at those? they come with a ss fluted barrel.



I think you're referring to the Professional Ordanance Carbon-15. As i recall, it weighs something like 3 pounds and change, loaded.

Carbon fiber reciever, carbon fiber handgaurd, carbon fiber stock... lightweight (optional fluting) stainless steel barrel.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 4:18:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 4:39:59 PM EDT
The ACE Skeleton Stock is significantly lighter then the Collapsible stocks, which are considerably lighter then the full stocks.

Bushmaster has wieghts on their website, its like 1/ pound or so lighter then a full stock...

BTW I eagerly await the results of your build up, I'm considering just such a project myself.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 9:33:02 PM EDT
For the lightest all metal preban AR with optics you would use:

Colt SP1 Lower
Wilson flat top upper with no forward assist
Smith Enterprise skeletonized bolt carrier
Bushmaster pencil barrel cut to 15" and flashhider weled on
Bushmaster Vmatch float tube
Colt 4 pos. collapsable stock with light weight buffer
JP trigger with lightweight hammer
Titanium firing pin
KAC 300m folding rear sight
Aimpoint M2 with railgrabber mount.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 12:04:16 AM EDT
Sounds like you want an SP1 with the 16 inch lightweight barrel.

Collapsable stocks (current Bushmaster and Colt) M4 stocks weigh about the same as an A2 stock.

If you can get an M16 or an A1 stock it will be lighter. CavArms stocks may be lighter yet.

The weights that are used from the Bushmaster website don't include the weight of the buffer tube or the other stock parts.
They all weigh about the same.

Link Posted: 11/1/2002 3:57:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lojack:
hummm i have held a para-ordinance (sp) that was extremely light and compact. Have you looked at those? they come with a ss fluted barrel. sorry it is a Professional Ordanance. they are <cartman voice> hella cool <end cartman voice> 3 lbs is true. if you want light, that is the way to go.



I think you are talking about the Professional Ordinance Carbon 15. If you re-read my original post, I don't want any synthetic receivers. I sold a couple of the Carbon 15's a few years ago, and most had problems.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 4:02:01 AM EDT
As far as optics go, I kind of think they're a waste of time for something like this. I am also trying to finish an AR-15 "scout" project as well, and that would be my shorty with optics model.

If that ace stock really does weigh less than any other stock (anyone know what the lightest functional stock is?) then that would certainly save some $$ as I could just build off of a rifle I already own, and simply swap out upppers.
It looks like Bushmaster only sells that lightweight barrel in pre-ban configuration, I don't know if they'll sell it in post-ban. I think it would be nice if they'd sell it to me without the bayo-lug, and I could have a birdcage-lookalike muzzle break pinned on in place of the flash hider.

I actually thought this platform would also be a cool way to get into suppressors down the line, and it would offset the added weight of the can. Of course, I think it would have to be pre-ban for this to work as I'd need the threaded barrel.

Good suggestions all around though guys, keep them up.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 4:24:24 AM EDT
Sure sounds to me like you are looking for the Colt SP1 carbine.

Slab side upper and lower, collapsible stock, 16" pencil barrel.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 5:02:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By norman74:
It looks like Bushmaster only sells that lightweight barrel in pre-ban configuration, I don't know if they'll sell it in post-ban. I think it would be nice if they'd sell it to me without the bayo-lug, and I could have a birdcage-lookalike muzzle break pinned on in place of the flash hider.



Here's my lightweight rifle. THat's a Bushmaster Superlight 16 upper with one of Kurt's brakes. Jarrod at Bushy said the upper was from the first production run. As it's still not listed on their website I don't know if any more have been made. John at K2 Sports removed the lug. It is an outstanding shooter.

Link Posted: 11/1/2002 5:30:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2002 5:32:23 AM EDT by norman74]
Can anyone provide a link to the barrel weight chart on the Bushmaster website? I'm searching around for it but can't seem to locate it.
Found it, here it is:
www.bushmaster.com/faqs/techdatafaqs.asp

Now, someone said the stock weights are on the web too?
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 8:33:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 9:15:48 AM EDT
I am in the midst of building a Camp/Carry/ Trunk/General Purpose/Child trainer/Fun Rifle.
It consist of a Ss abrrel turned as smallas I can safely get it. A M-4 upper from Rock River. A Calvary Arms Carbine floating Aluminum handguard. A Front site that has been cut down to gas block duties only. I will top it with a Ultra-Dot scope and A1 Stock.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 9:33:59 AM EDT
OK, that brings up a good point, what's the lightest handguard? And do the aluminum ones heat up as bad as the little carbine ones?

This was the one spot I was planning on maybe going a little heavy, and using M4 handguards, just for the added thermal barrier and grip area.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 11:00:42 AM EDT
When I had the free float aluminum handguards on my rifle, i got burned up. It wasn't too bad for a few odd shots here or there, but any volume shooting really turned up the heat.


Link Posted: 11/1/2002 2:24:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2002 2:26:04 PM EDT by Luckystiff]
I had the same thought and then saw a pic. of the Canadian C8. So I scavenged all the parts up and built a copy of the C8. I used a Preban PWA lower, Bushmaster A1 upper, Colt M4 stock, Colt 14.5 inch Lt. weight barrel with a Vortex pined on the end. This rifle is very light and very handy. Most of the SWAT boys around here are in love with the M4. When I pull the mean little bitch out they go nuts over how light it is and how well it balances.

I have an M4 as well but I love this Lt. little rifle.
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community.webshots.com/photo/29311300/41323483vldjFh
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 7:33:21 PM EDT
Wouldn't the lightest barrel setup be one of those 11-11.5" jobs with the 5" fake flash thing attached?

OLY perhaps?
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 8:35:13 PM EDT
No that flash hider is actually as heavy as a light weight barrel inch for inch. I would take the barrel length over flash hider any day.
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