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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 5/29/2002 1:40:01 PM EDT
Hey all, I thought I'd tap the knowledge here again and ask you all about getting a C&R FFL. Who has one? Still easy to get? Any pitfalls I should be aware of?

Thanks for the help,

Steve
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 2:29:42 PM EDT
Steve,

I got mine a little over a year ago. It's a very worthwhile thing to have. Brownells and Midway (and a few other places) give dealer pricing if you send a copy of your C&R license. So, even if you don't use it to buy very many guns, it'll pay for itself in other ways.

Just follow the regulations, fill out your bound book accurately, and you'll be OK. Collectors aren't dealers, and we don't have anywhere near the same paperwork that dealers have to put up with.
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 2:36:01 PM EDT
Steve, I got one last year. Took 23 days from mailbox to mailbox, but I hear now they run 2-3 months. Still easy to get: A one-page form filled out in duplicate, give one (courtesy) copy to your CLEO, send the other to BATF. $35 for three years.

Big pitfall: Once you get it, you'll be spending a ton of money on "bargains." In addition to guns, you get dealer prices at lots of other places (Brownell's), plus you can buy and sell via USPS (cheaper & safer than UPS or FedEx). You can also buy C&R guns at shows on your license and in most states there's no wait period for C&R handgun bought on your license. Remember, anything over 50 years old is automatically C&R, and that covers a lot of fairly modern guns.

You do need to get a bound log book and enter any C&R purchases made AFTER you get your license. BATF may, if they want to, ask to see your book and check your C&R inventory, but you have the right to deny them access to your house -- you just have to haul the logbook and your guns to BATF offices for the inspection.

One caveat: In New York City, BATF is applying higher standards and is doing home visits to applicants there before issuing C&R licenses. The rest of the country's still a mail-only process.

HTH.
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 2:41:09 PM EDT
You can only buy guns through the mail with a C&R lic that are over 50 years old. Is this correct ?
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 4:15:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan:
You can only buy guns through the mail with a C&R lic that are over 50 years old. Is this correct ?



Not necessarily - 50+ years old covers the "relic" part, but some firearms can be classified as curios. ATF classifies a C&R firearm as:

1)Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but noy including replicas thereof;
2)Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits fireamrs to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
3)Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like fireamrs are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commericial channels is substantially less.

The new Yugo SKS's and algerian SKS's are examples of guns classified as C&R that are less than 50 years old. The Yugo's were made in the late 60's and early 70's I believe - since they are turning out to be not so rare, despite all the hype by the distributors, I'm frankly not sure how they still have C&R status. To give you some more examples:

-Auto-Mag pistols, calibers .44 AMP and .357 AMP, mfd. and/or assembled by Auto-Mag Corporation, TDE, OMC, High Standard, Lee Jurras, or AMT from 1969 to 1985.
-Browning .22 caliber, semiautomatic rifles, Grade II, mfd. by Fabrique National in Belgium from 1956 to 1977.
-Fabrique National 1889-1989 Centenary High Power pistols, cal. 9mm.
-UZI, Model A, semiautomatic carbine, cal. 9mm, having a satin nickel finish applied at the factory, S/Ns SA0001 to SA0100.
-Winchester, Model 70, rifles, .308, .270 Winchester, and 30-06 cal., 19" barrel and Mannlicher type stock, made from 1968 to 1971.

These are just a few examples, but as you can see, they are all more or less "collector's editions" or rare variants, and each one, I believe, needs to be submitted to the ATF for approval - they just don't go looking around for rare guns to add to their list. Because of the nature of these guns, they aren't the type to be plastered all over SGN for sub-$100, like many of the surplus guns classified as Relics.

The ATF can ask (and you need to respond within 24 hours) of the disposition of any firearm that does (or should) show in your bound book "in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation". When there is "reasonable cause" to believe a violation(s) is taking place, they can request a search warrant from a magistrate and search your premises, records, etc. I'm not sure how exactly this differs from a search warrant for a normal criminal investigation, though - perhaps the standards for obtaining one are less, but they still need one, despite what some people may tell you.

Rocko
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 4:29:30 PM EDT
Hey guys thanks for the info. I'm gonna mail the application in to the ATF and go for it. I didn't even think about being able to get dealer pricing from places like Brownells!! Who else gives that pricing to C&R holders?

One response here said that C&R firearms can only be purchased through mail order is that correct? I'd like to hear more regarding making purchases at shows with the C&R license, that's what I was planning on obtaining it for most of all.

Thanks again,

Steve
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 4:33:22 PM EDT
You can buy at shows using your C&R, but that sort of takes away the point - getting guns at wholesale prices. The only money you'd really be saving vs. buying it straight out is the cost of the background check. I guess it may be useful if your state requires a waiting period for normal transfers, though.

Rocko
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 5:14:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tony_k:
Steve, I got one last year. Took 23 days from mailbox to mailbox, but I hear now they run 2-3 months.



Someone recently posted that it took 33 days to get theirs.

I'm at 30 days now, with the check being cashed 27 days ago.
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 6:14:09 PM EDT
Hey guys.....another question. If the license expires and, I forget or some other un-forseen reason,I don't re-new it, am I able to keep the C&R fireamrs I've purchased? The more I know know the better I'll feel when I get licensed.

Thanks once again,

Steve
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 6:39:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteveG:
Hey guys.....another question. If the license expires and, I forget or some other un-forseen reason,I don't re-new it, am I able to keep the C&R fireamrs I've purchased? The more I know know the better I'll feel when I get licensed.

Thanks once again,

Steve



Nope, sorry. If you let your license expire, you'll have to send all your C&R firearms to me. Just kidding.

Yes, you can keep everything you bought using your license if you let it expire. You just won't be able to buy all these cool toys through the mail anymore.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 6:46:20 PM EDT
Two questions:
1. How much of a savings do places like Midway offer to individuals with the license?

2. How do I go about getting one? Do I call the BATF to get a packet sent to me?

Thanks
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 6:49:55 PM EDT
Yankee1911...you'll have to get in line behind all of my other friends that are waiting for me to expire and take my "toys" sorry!

Thanks to everyone for the answers!!

Steve
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 6:57:20 PM EDT
Soasoas,

You can get the application from the BATF here: www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/print2.htm and follow the directions on the form....from what I gathered from the Legal Forum here you also now need this form too www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/f533020.pdf if I am mistaken someone here will hopefully point it out too.

Some more info I found useful was at: www.cruffler.com

HTH,

Steve
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 7:14:30 PM EDT
See the link for all the information you will need.

www.cruffler.com/whatis.html
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 7:49:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2002 7:51:03 PM EDT by JH225]
What can a C&R do for you?

How does a a 8mm Yugo M48 in unissued condition for $100 or a 7.5 French MAS 49/56 Sniper Rifle with 4 mags, bayo, cleaning kit, etc. in 95% condition for $219 sound?

I have had mine for about 5 years, and at $30 for 3 years, it is money very well spent.

PS- The ATF can come and ask you to show them your book and weapons, but I have NEVER heard of it happening unless there were other factors involved. The Gov't could care less about these old weapons.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 1:56:15 PM EDT

What can a C&R do for you?


You can only buy guns through the mail with a C&R lic that are over 50 years old. Is this correct ?


I just received a 95%+ condition H&R M1 Garand that was probably manufactured in the early-mid 50's. Best thing was that it was delivered to my front door by the US Mail.

It don't get no better than that!
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 6:34:40 PM EDT
I received my C&R lic. last Friday. I had applied in early April. Now, what to order first?
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 6:38:40 PM EDT
Try this site. www.milsurpshooter.net
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