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Posted: 10/19/2003 2:06:03 PM EDT
I know very little about the high power, but I have a friend whom loves his. I saw one in my gunshop from the 60's hard chrome finish, made in belgium, wood grips. It looks awesome and fits in my hand better than a sig. I think its a much better size than the sig or beretta.

My question is what is wrong with the high power? I almost never hear anything about it, articles etc. the military doesn't use it, they use the beretta, the navy uses the SIG, army spec ops HK. No cops I know carry the high power.

The belgium made high power and The brand new ones also look very nice. How come no one uses them (military, cops, etc) what the hell is wrong with it??
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 2:16:54 PM EDT
I dont know about where you live but around here they are expensive as hell. The Browning and FN models are all around $600.00 and that is for the used ones. The other brands that are a copy just dont seem to be worth the cash they want for them. What I do like is how cheap the Hi-caps ae for them. I plan on getting one as soon as I pay off the other pistols.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 2:22:05 PM EDT
The SAS used them before replacing them with SIGs, and the FBI's HRT used them before going to 1911s.

Id probably say its caliber has made it be eclipsed by more modern designs, which is sad. Its incredibly size efficient for "only" holding 13+1 rounds and fits your hand like no other.

I love my Browning.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 3:52:34 PM EDT
It's a single action gun. No matter how great a gun design it is (and it's really one of the greatest), it is limited in the US police market because it's SA. Most PDs would rather buy a DA capable (or Glock type striker) and many people think that what's good for LE must be good for civillians. That translation results in a small market in the civillian world.

Many people who carry concealed are not comfortable with a single action, so the BHP doesn't get much of a share of that large handgun market.

It was the first hi-cap "wonder-nine", and has been the staple of the 9mm equipped militaries around the world. It was first used in WWII, and adopted by many nations afterwards. It's still the standard sidearm of the UK. The US retained the .45 long after WWII, and once it decided to go 9mm, it also decided to require DA capability, so the BHP was out for US military use. Usually anything Uncle Sam buys gets a huge boost in the civillian market as well.

All the services use both the M9 (Beretta) and the M11 (Sig P228). It just depends on what unit it is. The HK Mk23 is also a joint service gun as well, in fact the Navy is the proponent agency, through the SOCOM, for it. That's why it has a Navy degination (MK) instead of an Army one (M). There are some USMC units still using an .45 M1911A1 variant (MEU/SOC).

There's nothing wrong with the BHP, and many nations still use it. It's just timing that limited it from being more widespread than it is. Single action folks in the US, and the US military kept towards the .45, and cops used revolvers forever. Once those groups made the jump to a 9mm auto, they jumped all the way to a "modern" design with DA capability.

Ross

Link Posted: 10/19/2003 5:09:27 PM EDT


havent shown it off for a while.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 5:51:52 PM EDT
I thought the HP wasn't reliable with hollow points? Am I wrong?

Thanks

CRC
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 6:00:51 PM EDT
I would put the HP up against any 9mm made today. Certainly none balance better or have a better "feel".

As for HP feding problems, probably no more than any other brand/model. There was a time in the 1970s when the HP had tiny sights & quality was less than perfect. For whatever reason they got out of that bit of bad spell & continued to make wonderful guns.

As for popularity, at one time over 35 countries had adopted the HP as its official sidearm. Nazi Germany even used them after they conquered Belgium.

LE didn't like them because of the SA "liability", civilian sales were slow due to its full size & lack of marketing.

I use mine for IDPA & will never part with it.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 7:04:36 PM EDT
The browning HP is possibly the BEST combat pistol of all times. Of course its reputation and collectors status run the prices up but what do you expect?
It would be very difficult to find a better pistol.
Of course now days everyone wants the latest gee-whiz uber pistol and an eighty year old design nary warrants a glance but true afficianados know it for what it is and appreciate it accordingly.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 7:29:13 PM EDT
Nice High Power Lumpy196

High Powers are great. Every one should own one.

Link Posted: 10/19/2003 7:38:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2003 7:43:12 PM EDT by Lumpy196]

Originally Posted By CRC:
I thought the HP wasn't reliable with hollow points? Am I wrong?

Thanks

CRC




Original High Powers werent throated to feed hollowpoints. IIRC, the introduction of the MKII brought about a feed ramp suitable for hollowpoints without the attention of a gunsmith.

Ive put thousands of rounds of JHPs, everything from 147gr to 115gr +P through mine without a single malf.

Is that parked SGB?
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 7:53:30 PM EDT
Thanks for the great info., I didn't realize how much the military and lE depend on DA's. Personally I'm not a big fan of the DA trigger pull, I like my adjustable hairpin trigger on my colt 45.

I may be in the market for a high power in a few months. What is the quality like on the brand new HP's versus the Belgium's, is it more of a collectors thing, or is a Belgium HP worth a 200 dollar premium over a brand new one for the better quality?
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 8:08:43 PM EDT

Is that parked SGB?


Yep, had it stolen in '92. When I got it back the finish was on the shall we say the ruff side. So I had it Parkarized.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 8:17:31 PM EDT
It's one of the very few pistols on my now short list of pistols to buy.

Sweet looking as it is shooting ...
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 8:45:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MurdochsM4:
Thanks for the great info., I didn't realize how much the military and lE depend on DA's. Personally I'm not a big fan of the DA trigger pull, I like my adjustable hairpin trigger on my colt 45.

I may be in the market for a high power in a few months. What is the quality like on the brand new HP's versus the Belgium's, is it more of a collectors thing, or is a Belgium HP worth a 200 dollar premium over a brand new one for the better quality?



The "Browning" was made in Belgium, then later assembled in Portugal with Belgian parts. IIRC manufacture returned to Belgium later. "Browning" itself never made any, they just imported them from FN under a deal that they had with FN to market FN products here in the USA. They were made in the same FN factory, by the same FN factory wrokers that are making them now. The only difference is that FN is importing them now instead of Browning. So quality wise, you're pretty safe with an FN. There was really nothing wrong with the Portugese assembled guns either.

There are others who made them as well. Canada made many begining just pre-WWII and you can find those around. They kinda have goofy looking sights, but I like mine fine.

There are Argentine ones available as well. The military ones are direct copies, whereas some of the commercial ones are truly variations. I like my Argentine military one fine as well.

There are knock-offs like the PJK, etc. and they vary in quality from good to bad. Good if you're on a budget, but you get what you pay form most times.

There are many more details, but the latest offering from FN is probably the best. It is a MK III, which is plenty strong, and has nice things like great sights and better safety levers, etc. If you're going to get one for all around use, and not needing it for a specific collector purpose, I'd get one of those. They're really the best overall version ever made.

Ross

Link Posted: 10/19/2003 8:46:29 PM EDT
Because it's a 9
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 3:30:31 AM EDT
It was the only handgun issued by BOTH sides during WWII.

They are still very popular. And IMHO, will stand comparison with any handgun being made today.

Link Posted: 10/20/2003 4:32:05 AM EDT
The girlfriend loves hers, carries it everywhere.

She started with a Kahr E9, it was a POS. She took a 2 day 1st level women's only course at Firearms Academy of Seattle and shot close to 40 different handguns in those 2 days. I was on the sidelines and she kept coming back to the BHP and was beating hell out of the Pepper Poppers with it. Continuous hammers with it, and her a beginner.

The day after 9/11 I started hunting the shops and shows for a BHP. I found one a week later, used, with 2 factory high caps, all the paperwork, and case in a local shop,didn't even look like it had been fired. It has the best trigger I have ever felt on a BHP. It was even two tone (brushed chrome slide, painted frame) like the one she'd shot in class. It was something like $550.

I stopped at the local LE supply, ordered carry gear, and bought several boxes of Ranger and took it home to her. She's a lefty and noticed it had left handed Pachmayr grips on it already. Hasn't left her side since then. Have never regretted buying it
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 6:08:36 AM EDT
Thanks for the info guys.

So it was omly the first guns that were throated for FMJ.

CRC
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 6:46:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2003 6:47:03 AM EDT by scottfn308]
Here are a few of mine, with the biography of the Master.

Link Posted: 10/20/2003 11:00:16 AM EDT
Sure the BHP is a great gun! Anything made by Browning is sure a masterpeice. I compared the BHP to the CZ75 when I finally bought my 75. To me, the biggest gripe is the grip... short and fat. I like 'em longer and more slender... the CZ75 fit fine. Other than that, the HP is great!.

Link Posted: 10/20/2003 6:32:19 PM EDT
To answer the question as to why they aren't more popular;
*Browning/FN has never marketed this pistol very heavily in the US. When is the last time you saw a full page ad in G&A for them?
*They haven't had much competion from quality clones. Look at how much nicer Colts and Springfields have gotten for the more since Kimber came on the scene.
*No compact version. Debatable whether one's needed but a lot of shooters like a carry gun similar to a full size-Commanders/ baby Glocks, etc..
*No 22lr conversion until recently
*No "Loaded" features-Night sights, decent triggers, front slide serrations, extended controls. Shell out $600+ and it still needs a trip to C&S or Novak.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 6:32:49 PM EDT
To answer the question as to why they aren't more popular;
*Browning/FN has never marketed this pistol very heavily in the US. When is the last time you saw a full page ad in G&A for them?
*They haven't had much competion from quality clones. Look at how much nicer Colts and Springfields have gotten for the money since Kimber came on the scene.
*No compact version. Debatable whether one's needed but a lot of shooters like a carry gun similar to a full size-Commanders/ baby Glocks, etc..
*No 22lr conversion until recently
*No "Loaded" features-Night sights, decent triggers, front slide serrations, extended controls. Shell out $600+ and it still needs a trip to C&S or Novak.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 8:23:27 PM EDT
Iv'e been looking at these on the net for sale. And it seems that their all still listed under the browning name; but in my gun catalog they are made by FN only? And if FN makes them and markets them as brownings, does that mean that these brand new mark threes are made in belgium? Thanks for the info, this is all very interesting.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 3:44:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MurdochsM4:
Iv'e been looking at these on the net for sale. And it seems that their all still listed under the browning name; but in my gun catalog they are made by FN only? And if FN makes them and markets them as brownings, does that mean that these brand new mark threes are made in belgium? Thanks for the info, this is all very interesting.



Browning Arms never made any of them. Browning was only the US distributor and they've always been made by FN. FN owns Browning Arms now and they also have a plant in SC IIRC, but I don't think they are making any of the HPs over here, just the newer models.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 7:45:59 AM EDT
I think all the reasons that folks have mentioned about why they aren't more popular are probably true.

I have had one (mid-70s) since new, and it is a wonderful pistol. Goes bang every time. And, it is the best instinctive shooting gun I have ever fired. Last weekend, I absolutely annihilated the competition at my club's monthly black light shoot. I had 50 points over the closest competitor, and it wasn't because I am some sort of super marksman, because I'm not.

If any of you are even just toying with the idea, go ahead and get one. There is no way that you'll regret it.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 8:56:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=24926&iGalleryUnq=235&iImageUnq=15344

havent shown it off for a while.





God bless you Lumpy. You are assured a noble, and treasured place in heaven just for owning such a beautiful piece of weaponry........wish I had one......sigh! The Hi-Power is one of the few guns that makes me want to commit adultery behind my Glock's back.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 9:08:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2003 9:10:15 AM EDT by Emoto]

Originally Posted By Snark1:
God bless you Lumpy. You are assured a noble, and treasured place in heaven just for owning such a beautiful piece of weaponry........wish I had one......sigh! The Hi-Power is one of the few guns that makes me want to commit adultery behind my Glock's back.



Anton Glock and John Browning decide to go shooting together one day. When they get to the range and set up, Anton picks up one of his G19's and shoots a few rounds and has a pretty decent score. He says, "Ok John, your turn." Browning, who had brought a P35 with him, carefully sets it on the bench and reaches down for a toy plastic sling-shot that a child must have dropped. As he picks it up, Anton shouts: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING???". Mr. Browning turns, smiles, and says: "Well, if you're not going to shoot a real gun, then neither am I."

Link Posted: 10/21/2003 9:14:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Emoto:

Originally Posted By Snark1:
God bless you Lumpy. You are assured a noble, and treasured place in heaven just for owning such a beautiful piece of weaponry........wish I had one......sigh! The Hi-Power is one of the few guns that makes me want to commit adultery behind my Glock's back.



Anton Glock and John Browning decide to go shooting together one day. When they get to the range and set up, Anton picks up one of his G19's and shoots a few rounds and has a pretty decent score. He says, "Ok John, your turn." Browning, who had brought a P35 with him, carefully sets it on the bench and reaches down for a toy plastic sling-shot that a child must have dropped. As he picks it up, Anton shouts: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING???". Mr. Browning turns, smiles, and says: "Well, if you're not going to shoot a real gun, then neither am I."




Aw cmon.......you made that up.....they didn't have plastic slingshots in Brownings day......hyuk....hyuk
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 10:05:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2003 10:06:25 AM EDT by Emoto]
Aw, shucks. Ya got me on the details... I mean, no man, that really happened!!!
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 12:42:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Snark1:
You are assured a noble, and treasured place in heaven just for owning such a beautiful piece of weaponry........



Thank you. In reality, its a box stock Browning imported MKIII with some really nice Craig Spegel grips.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 7:38:32 AM EDT
I know this isn't a "how many HPs do you own" thread; but I currently have a 70's vintage Belgian, a Chinese contract Inglis, and a FEG clone. I did have a FM Argentine commercial variant (the one with the full, heavy slide), but I had to ditch it because I was having too many problems with it.

IMO, the HP could benefit from eliminating the mag safety and offering an alloy frame model.

I do like the HP design, but there are a lot of little things that annoy me about it. The s/n on the frontstrap, the hard-to-work on trigger, the sights are either too tiny to use or too big for a carry gun, the safety lever is poorly designed, and the hammer can really bite your hand. I know most of these issues have been addressed in recent production, but they still constitute strikes against the older HP's that I might otherwise buy to play with.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 7:52:50 AM EDT
Speaking of thread drift, do any of you guys use shock buffs in your hi-powers? I was thinking of trying one...
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 7:55:36 PM EDT
I'm going with the crowd on this one. I have a HiPower and it one of the best handling pistols I own.

Also a very natural pointing pistol.

Simple to field strip too.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 10:43:55 AM EDT
I have a shok-buff in my 1911 but not one in my HP. Might try it out though.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 1:39:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 6:13:17 AM EDT
I was in the market for a Hi-Power and found the CZ-75B features more appealing



Imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 6:28:53 AM EDT
Sweet Photo of the CZ75. Good gun too.

Link Posted: 10/25/2003 7:54:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
I have a shok-buff in my 1911 but not one in my HP. Might try it out though.



And you like it?
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 8:19:35 PM EDT
Here's mine I just bought. I love it!


Link Posted: 10/26/2003 4:11:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Emoto:

Originally Posted By BobCole:
I have a shok-buff in my 1911 but not one in my HP. Might try it out though.



And you like it?



Oh, yeah. From purely a mechanical standpoint, it has to not be good for metal-to-metal slamming together like the slide & frame do.

Some suggest that you should only use a new one on a carry gun, others suggest not using one at all. My 1911 is only a range gun now so that's not a big worry.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 6:19:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2003 6:19:30 AM EDT by sig_230]
Nice looking HP Clean-Cut. Now we need a range report.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 6:35:30 AM EDT
As pretty as a satin nickeled BHP is, a stainless model certainly would be on my "must have" list.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 7:01:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Emoto:

Originally Posted By Snark1:
God bless you Lumpy. You are assured a noble, and treasured place in heaven just for owning such a beautiful piece of weaponry........wish I had one......sigh! The Hi-Power is one of the few guns that makes me want to commit adultery behind my Glock's back.



Anton Glock and John Browning decide to go shooting together one day. When they get to the range and set up, Anton picks up one of his G19's and shoots a few rounds and has a pretty decent score. He says, "Ok John, your turn." Browning, who had brought a P35 with him, carefully sets it on the bench and reaches down for a toy plastic sling-shot that a child must have dropped. As he picks it up, Anton shouts: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING???". Mr. Browning turns, smiles, and says: "Well, if you're not going to shoot a real gun, then neither am I."




Who the f-ck is Anton Glock? Do you mean Gaston Glock?
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 9:15:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QCMGR:

Originally Posted By Emoto:

Originally Posted By Snark1:
God bless you Lumpy. You are assured a noble, and treasured place in heaven just for owning such a beautiful piece of weaponry........wish I had one......sigh! The Hi-Power is one of the few guns that makes me want to commit adultery behind my Glock's back.



Anton Glock and John Browning decide to go shooting together one day. When they get to the range and set up, Anton picks up one of his G19's and shoots a few rounds and has a pretty decent score. He says, "Ok John, your turn." Browning, who had brought a P35 with him, carefully sets it on the bench and reaches down for a toy plastic sling-shot that a child must have dropped. As he picks it up, Anton shouts: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING???". Mr. Browning turns, smiles, and says: "Well, if you're not going to shoot a real gun, then neither am I."




Who the f-ck is Anton Glock? Do you mean Gaston Glock?



Yes. I didn't realize my error until much time after posting, and since it was only a joke anyway (adapted from the one about the heads of Guinness, Bud and Miller having a beer) I didn't think it was worth fixing.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 9:32:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Emoto:

Originally Posted By QCMGR:

Originally Posted By Emoto:

Originally Posted By Snark1:
God bless you Lumpy. You are assured a noble, and treasured place in heaven just for owning such a beautiful piece of weaponry........wish I had one......sigh! The Hi-Power is one of the few guns that makes me want to commit adultery behind my Glock's back.



Anton Glock and John Browning decide to go shooting together one day. When they get to the range and set up, Anton picks up one of his G19's and shoots a few rounds and has a pretty decent score. He says, "Ok John, your turn." Browning, who had brought a P35 with him, carefully sets it on the bench and reaches down for a toy plastic sling-shot that a child must have dropped. As he picks it up, Anton shouts: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING???". Mr. Browning turns, smiles, and says: "Well, if you're not going to shoot a real gun, then neither am I."




Who the f-ck is Anton Glock? Do you mean Gaston Glock?



Yes. I didn't realize my error until much time after posting, and since it was only a joke anyway (adapted from the one about the heads of Guinness, Bud and Miller having a beer) I didn't think it was worth fixing.



Good joke, I was just scratching my head trying to figure out who Anton was.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 10:58:38 AM EDT
Anton Glock. His drunken sodomist brother that lives in Amsterdam that he doesnt like to talk about.....
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 12:01:38 PM EDT
I think the Hi-Power's are wonderful pistols. They point better and fit my hand better than any semi-auto pistol I have ever picked up. They are thin and conceal pretty easily, even though they are full size guns. They are accurate and easy to customize. The MK III's are very reliable. They are just great pistols.

But as many have pointed out, it has a certain market and doesn't appeal to many police agencies because of it's single action operation. And because it has been around so long, it isn't as fancy, flashy or fresh as some modern pistols. The Hi-Power is IMHO as good as any combat pistol ever made (and better than many) but is used most by a select group of individuals who prefer single actions in a caliber other than .45 ACP and the 1911 design.

-CH
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 8:51:09 PM EDT
I too am a big fan of the single action. Also I love the size of the high power, Iv'e been looking for the perfect nine for a while.

I bought a glock 19 9mm hated it and sold it, Ive held a beretta 92F and it felt way too wide and bulky, my 1911 was a better size! And the sig p226 9mm Seems like its top heavy or at least looks that way, the grip is very small and the top half is huge, plus its double action.

I want one, maybee in a few months, those MarkIII's look like a work of art.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 9:20:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
I think the Hi-Power's are wonderful pistols. They point better and fit my hand better than any semi-auto pistol I have ever picked up. They are thin and conceal pretty easily, even though they are full size guns. They are accurate and easy to customize. The MK III's are very reliable. They are just great pistols.

But as many have pointed out, it has a certain market and doesn't appeal to many police agencies because of it's single action operation. And because it has been around so long, it isn't as fancy, flashy or fresh as some modern pistols. The Hi-Power is IMHO as good as any combat pistol ever made (and better than many) but is used most by a select group of individuals who prefer single actions in a caliber other than .45 ACP and the 1911 design.

-CH



I'd buy 1 if they made it in .45
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 12:20:37 PM EDT
As long as it isn't in .45 Anton Glock.

Link Posted: 10/27/2003 12:55:38 PM EDT
The gunshgow actually had a HP this weekend. It was the chrome model, both frame & slide, I forget what they call that one.

It could've been yours for a mere $750.

Several FEG models too but I didn't even bother to look at those.
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