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Posted: 1/1/2005 8:04:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2005 5:42:40 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 1/1/2005 8:08:03 PM EDT
Thanks for the heads up.


At least this ammo shortage has a good reason behind it, and not something stupid / pointless like import laws.
Link Posted: 1/1/2005 8:31:38 PM EDT
News like this makes me glad that I stocked up over the last two years. I have almost 6000 rounds of XM193, most of it on strippers. Guess I'll be looking for a decently loaded practice ammunition so I don't have to shoot my good stuff.
Link Posted: 1/1/2005 8:59:44 PM EDT
I recently purchased a case of Federal American Eagle. The headstamp was mixed LC 02, 03, and 04.
The quality of this ammo is very good. How will this affect the American Eagle brand?
Link Posted: 1/1/2005 9:11:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 8:42:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HBAR16:
News like this makes me glad that I stocked up over the last two years. I have almost 6000 rounds of XM193, most of it on strippers. Guess I'll be looking for a decently loaded practice ammunition so I don't have to shoot my good stuff.



If/when I get my shrike I was planning on blowing through that amount the first weekend. Guess I'll have to lower the amount or yikes.... try out wolf. Please don't let VA-gunnut see this.

Thanks for the headsup Troy.
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 8:56:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 9:26:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2005 9:27:04 AM EDT by Tack]

Originally Posted By HBAR16:
News like this makes me glad that I stocked up over the last two years. I have almost 6000 rounds of XM193, most of it on strippers. Guess I'll be looking for a decently loaded practice ammunition so I don't have to shoot my good stuff.



Regarding cheap practice loads....

I'm sure most of you by now realize that Military 5.56 brass is tough to get from people like Scharch Manufacturing who have really done a great job in providing re-processed (cleaned, primer pockets swaged, trimmed and full length sized) Mil. brass to the public. I talked to them the other day, and it's pretty grim. So grim in fact that they have all but gotten out of the Mil. Re-process business, and started there own "New Brass" manufacturing.

It appears that the Gov't is either shreading or melting the used 5.56 brass versus selling it to private contractors. I'm sure Troy or others of you know more about this policy than I do, but clearly it sucks!

I used to use the "3 shots and you're out" rule for reloading my 5.56mm brass. I am now going to shoot it 3 times and trim/ de-burr it and shoot it again 3 time for a total of 6 shots. I may run into loose primer pockets by shooting it this much, but it's better than running out before I die, which should be in about 30 more years.

I too am glad I have invested in my "Sealed Ammo Cans" for any SHTF activities.

Tack
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 3:26:21 PM EDT
I've been shooting a lot of Winchester USA223R1VP, which I understood to NOT be the IMI made stuff. How might the shortage affect this?

Link Posted: 1/2/2005 3:27:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 4:18:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 7:56:26 AM EDT
Thanks Troy. I have been debating about buying Q3131A for $5 per box but know I'll be going at lunch and get all the boxes I can at the local sporting goods store. Hopefully they are still on the shelf.
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 9:27:42 AM EDT
I just called the local BassPro and had them place their last 10 boxes of Q3131a aside for me. I think this is the same 10 boxes that has been sitting on their shelf for about the last 2 weeks or so.

They also told me that what is on the shelf is all they have.
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 10:07:46 AM EDT
Thanks for the heads up, Troy. Just ordered another 1000 rds of XM193 (boxed) "just in case". Maybe before this is all over with I might have to break out a case of C77...
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 3:51:48 PM EDT
Delta 9, I ordered five boxes from their last night. I guess there was 15 before you called. Dang, I should've ordered more. My next round of choice is black hills blue box 52 bthp. Hopefully they won't run out. Plus, please don't flame me, but I believe it'd work in a pinch.
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 4:41:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JJREA:
Delta 9, I ordered five boxes from their last night. I guess there was 15 before you called.



This was a local store, not the main mail order place. And when I got there they only had 7 boxes, so I guess the guy was mistaken on how many they had. At least I got those 7.

This was the new BassPro in Harrisburg, PA.
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 5:30:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 3:29:41 AM EDT
I was going to ask this in a new thread, but this looks like a good place:

I was under the impression that the military had switched to M855 some time back.
Why is M193 in short supply?
Are we still issuing both?

From what I've read, it looks like our troops would be better served with 55gr ammo, but I thought the heavier stuff was all they could get.

Anybody know the straight poop on this?
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 3:36:20 PM EDT
Yea, I am also wondering why m193 is scarce, maybe troops train with it but use m855 for combat?
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 4:43:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dacat:
Yea, I am also wondering why m193 is scarce, maybe troops train with it but use m855 for combat?



Could it be there's still some Guard/Reserve units issued A1s, combined with M855 constituting the majority of production?
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 5:39:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dacat:
Yea, I am also wondering why m193 is scarce, maybe troops train with it but use m855 for combat?



My guess would be that the brass, primers, etc. are going into M855 production.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 5:39:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dacat:
Yea, I am also wondering why m193 is scarce, maybe troops train with it but use m855 for combat?



My guess is that both types are made on the same equipment, and that equipment capacity is now being used exclusively for M855 production for the military.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 5:44:25 PM EDT
I just spent $465 on 5.56 yesterday. I got 10 boxes Q3131a, 80 boxes of federal XM-193, and 70 boxes of Natec PCA .223. Iam tempted to go back and pick up the 2.5 cases of S&B [mixed 55 & 62] and even the wolf .223... my inventory is pretty mixed anyway, so more different stuff shouldn't matter... Best guess, I only have roughly 6k rounds stored up, maybe I should hit my next few gunshows...
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 12:45:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:

The worst part is that, due to the UN's "Small Arms Proliferation" treaty, the sources for a lot of good imported surplus is now gone, due to local interpretations of how to comply with that treaty.

It doesn't look good.

-Troy



UN: What a bunch of bastages!
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 1:36:32 AM EDT
Well with the shortge going on as it is getting tough to even find FAE or UMC even maybe the black rifle makers will start dropping the price on these rifles,As i was at several dealers this week and saw several sales go sour as when they wanted to buy the rifle and the dealers told them they had no ammo to sell them and didnt know when they would get any,Well the guys would not drop down $800-$1000 for a riflehock.gif
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 3:43:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2005 3:44:01 AM EDT by mini14jac]

I was under the impression that the military had switched to M855 some time back.
Why is M193 in short supply?
Are we still issuing both?



Hey Troy, any information on this?
(You seem to have good sources.)
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 8:14:59 AM EDT
I am just gonna fire up the RCBS press as i wont pay $5 a box for the stuff as i got enough once fired brass to keep me going for a long time now.
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 11:48:54 AM EDT
I really hate to respond to one of these self-fulfilling prophecies......but...... I went out this morning and cleaned out the local Walmart of the 11 (40 round) boxes of Q34131A. Next stop was my friendly local FFL. He's been out of LC XM193 for months. He did have Wolf and Federal American Eagle. I've previously decided against Wolf because of a bad experience with Wolf polymer in a pistol caliber so I got a 500 round case of the American Eagle. This puts me over 2000 total rounds of .223 blasting ammo. Based on how often and how much I shoot the Bushy, this should last me close to a year and if there really is a long term shortage, I can make it last a lot longer.

I do have a set of reloading dies and some components for reloading (including a bucket of once fired brass). Maybe the shortage will prompt me to try reloading 223.

Alan
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 11:55:09 AM EDT
Looks like we'll be going on a (exclusive) Wolf diet around the Gloftoe household. No big deal really. The guns eat it up. Of course, I'm sitting on a stash of good ammo. I just won't shoot IT up.
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 1:09:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 1:44:20 PM EDT
O.K. that sound reasonable. But no .223 around is ridiculous. Is Black Hills not making ammo anymore???? Is UMC gone??? I don't usually buy american eagle but gander mountain usually has a bunch of it. Let alone the other white box. If you ask me, black hills is your other best bet and if you want a fighting bullet, use a bthp or a soft point or something. I know that m193 is supposed to be way better but I don't see .223 just drying up completely. Saying people aren't going to buy ar's because they can't buy m193 is like saying people aren't going to buy cars if they got rid of 93 octane gas. In my humble opinion.
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 5:52:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 8:16:35 PM EDT
Crap, I just orderd a case of 193 from ammo man for not much less than I was buying TUBS of SA from sportsmans guide a couple years ago. Without causing too much thread drift what the chance of some SA showing up again? Do they still make it?
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 8:42:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 3:54:35 AM EDT
I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to sound like YOU suggested ALL the .223 ammo was drying up. There we're a couple posts that made it seem like it. Like moshooter said guys weren't buying ar's because they couldn't buy ammo (I'm assuming 5.56) with them right away at a gun show. Seems silly.

So I do thank you for the heads up. I just got 100 rounds of Q last night and I'm going to put in an order for another 100 or 200 if they still have it. I'll probably just keep buying it in smaller quantities until they tell me it's out. I'm on a budget.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:08:33 AM EDT
Iit is at gun shows and gun shops as a man wants ammo to gun with his new gun purchase but when all he is offered is Wolf they most of the time say no,As the dealer tells them they cant even get FAE-UMC-Winchester of any kind as it is bought up over the internet to fast and the Distributors are having a very hard time getting any,Not just XM-193 or Q3131 or any other military round i mean even just plain old $3.50 a box FAE - UMC or Winchester so yes they are not selling alot of ARs as most guys say hell with it just give me a cheap Romanian AK and 1000 rnds of Wolf for that junker and we will just wait,

But if you look at what is gonna happen the AR will go down hill and Ammo will dry up as the War overseas is suppose to be atleast a 15 year war and it is only going on its 4th year.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 12:59:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By moshooter:
Iit is at gun shows and gun shops as a man wants ammo to gun with his new gun purchase but when all he is offered is Wolf they most of the time say no,As the dealer tells them they cant even get FAE-UMC-Winchester of any kind as it is bought up over the internet to fast and the Distributors are having a very hard time getting any,Not just XM-193 or Q3131 or any other military round i mean even just plain old $3.50 a box FAE - UMC or Winchester so yes they are not selling alot of ARs as most guys say hell with it just give me a cheap Romanian AK and 1000 rnds of Wolf for that junker and we will just wait,



Wow that 'paragraph' just gave my brain an aneurysm.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 1:29:57 PM EDT
Better go see a Doctor
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 4:19:00 PM EDT
If you can't get umc, the other white box, black hills, american eagle, and numerous other brands and types, you've got problems because you're not even looking. I'm still getting m193 and that's what they're talking about when they say it's drying up. 5.56 military spec ammo. Not run of the mill, commerciall .223. If guys selling guns are saying you can't get ammo, they're what I said, being silly. In my opinion. Now if it all goes away real quick, I'll stand corrected but that is definitely not the case right now.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 4:43:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Delta-9:

Originally Posted By moshooter:
Iit is at gun shows and gun shops as a man wants ammo to gun with his new gun purchase but when all he is offered is Wolf they most of the time say no,As the dealer tells them they cant even get FAE-UMC-Winchester of any kind as it is bought up over the internet to fast and the Distributors are having a very hard time getting any,Not just XM-193 or Q3131 or any other military round i mean even just plain old $3.50 a box FAE - UMC or Winchester so yes they are not selling alot of ARs as most guys say hell with it just give me a cheap Romanian AK and 1000 rnds of Wolf for that junker and we will just wait,



Wow that 'paragraph' just gave my brain an aneurysm.



No shit, my eyes hurt.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 5:04:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By T56:

Originally Posted By Delta-9:

Originally Posted By moshooter:
Iit is at gun shows and gun shops as a man wants ammo to gun with his new gun purchase but when all he is offered is Wolf they most of the time say no,As the dealer tells them they cant even get FAE-UMC-Winchester of any kind as it is bought up over the internet to fast and the Distributors are having a very hard time getting any,Not just XM-193 or Q3131 or any other military round i mean even just plain old $3.50 a box FAE - UMC or Winchester so yes they are not selling alot of ARs as most guys say hell with it just give me a cheap Romanian AK and 1000 rnds of Wolf for that junker and we will just wait,



Wow that 'paragraph' just gave my brain an aneurysm.



No shit, my eyes hurt.



+1


i gave up halfway.

like stated above, if you cant find other 5.56/.223 ammo than maybe you shouldnt own an ar

there ar numerous of other brand ammo out there to not have to worry about shortages. the only problem is trying to get what the milatary uses and even then i havent seen any real crisis
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 10:49:49 AM EDT
What i need to own a AR in order to get .223 ammo?Your a tool as i got other rifles in this caliber as well for Predator shooting,But you guys just go over board thinking if you dont have what the military uses in there weapons you wont be able to save the US from and invasionhock.gif
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:28:09 AM EDT
Looks like I need to ramp up production of my 69gr match reloads. 21cents a round, thereabouts. I got plenty of time to load this winter...

I'm sooo glad I have decent stocks in reserve, but this makes me want to sit on my .223 LC ammo, while I find an acceptable practice load. Reloading is starting to look more attractive again.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:10:27 PM EDT
One of my favorite Iowa dealers has 500 rd cases of Federal XM193 for $90 out the door. I picked up 2-500 round cases this weekend at the local gunshow. It was lot 69 and headstamped 2004. He will be at the show tommorrow and next week, at the farigrounds. He still has several cases left and told me that there has not been a run on this ammo(for him). BTW, he is B&B Enterprise(from Waterloo).
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:55:40 PM EDT
$90??? 25x20 nets you $129 here in Illinois... $109 in bulk...

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:57:23 PM EDT
Actually moshooter, we're saying just the opposite of that, but the whole conversation is going right over your head. There's no reason to call him a tool if you don't understand the point. And I'll spell it out real clear for you and after that I'm done. There's plenty of ammo of the .223 variety. There may be shortages in 5.56 military spec. (if you don't know the difference go to www.ammo-oracle.com) Some say you have to say something 7 times before someone hears you, but for everyones benefit, this was my last.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 7:57:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By moshooter:
I am just gonna fire up the RCBS press as i wont pay $5 a box for the stuff as i got enough once fired brass to keep me going for a long time now.hr


Dillon here if I can get it to work he
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 11:40:55 AM EDT
Thanks for the heads up, wondered why I am having trouble feeding my birthday/Christmas present.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 3:45:06 PM EDT
I do believe there is going to be a shortage, but it seems that notice of this shortage was called a little early, at least as far as Ammoman is concerned; over the weekend, Ammoman had boxed XM193, then on Sunday he went out of stock, now he's back in stock, also the "combo" pack XM193/tracer went out of stock then came back in stock...roller coaster ride leading to the end? I will say that all internet retailers that I have checked are out of boxed XM193 (except Ammoman), probably some retailers who don't do business on the 'net may be faring better depending on local demand...
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:23:38 PM EDT
My local shops are out of XM193 and Q3131A. Even the plain WWB 223 is getting scarce.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:43:30 PM EDT
Ammoman just found 200 more cases of XM193 boxed Lot #87 and when I was at Bass Pro over the weekend, they had plenty of Winchester Q3131A. Yes, I did scoop up several boxes!

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