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Posted: 10/14/2002 4:17:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2002 4:18:29 AM EDT by H3At]
What are anyones Opinions on these kinds of ammunition?

Reliable?

Gets your gun dirty?

Good for Home defense?

Winchester good for 5.56 AR-15's?

which 1 of these would u pick?


And yes iv read http://www.ammo-oracle.com/

i juss wanna pick 1 kind of ammo that i can use on the range and for home defense..and that is readily available at my local gun store

www.winchester.com/law/catalog/cfrlist.eye?cartlist=NS41Nm1t&typelist=none&image=on&summary=on&velocity=on&energy=on&shortrange=on&longrange=on


www.winchester.com/ammunition/store/cfrlist.eye?cartlist=NS41Nm1t&uselist=none&brandlist=none&image=on&summary=on&velocity=on&energy=on&shortrange=on&longrange=on
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 6:24:32 AM EDT
I would use Q3131A for defense purposes. It is new, it stores pretty well, it seems to be nearly M193 spec.

It doesn't seem to be any dirtier than any other ammo.

I wouldn't waste my money on any of that Super clean stuff.

Q3131A is easy to find, I haven't seen their M855 in stores.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 6:46:22 AM EDT
My AR's like Q3131A, and I do too.
MM419
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 7:49:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2002 8:24:12 AM EDT by H3At]
By the way i will be getting a Bushmaster 16" barrel 1:9 twist..And the Q3131A u guys are talkin about is this right?

www.winchester.com/ammunition/store/cfrproductsheet.eye?symbol=Q3131A&qrystr=Y2FydGxpc3Q9TlM0MU5tMXQmdXNlbGlzdD1ub25lJmJyY­W5kbGlzdD1ub25lJmltYWdlPW9uJnN1bW1hcnk9b24mdm­Vsb2NpdHk9b24mZW5lcmd5PW9uJnNob3J0cmFuZ2U9b24­mbG9uZ3JhbmdlPW9u

and how well does it shoot from your experiences?

iv read that the Q3131A blew primers

is Winchester Q3131A 55gr FMJ brass or steel cased?
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 9:04:57 AM EDT
White box, USA, Q3131A on end flap. Most local shops have for fair price. Goes "BANG" when fire pin hits. Goes where I point it, I've never "blew" a primer. The ammo is plain brass case, and bullet is a STD 55gr FMJ.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 10:57:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By H3At:
By the way i will be getting a Bushmaster 16" barrel 1:9 twist..And the Q3131A u guys are talkin about is this right?

www.winchester.com/ammunition/store/cfrproductsheet.eye?symbol=Q3131A&qrystr=Y2FydGxpc3Q9TlM0MU5tMXQmdXNlbGlzdD1ub25lJmJyY­W5kbGlzdD1ub25lJmltYWdlPW9uJnN1bW1hcnk9b24mdm­Vsb2NpdHk9b24mZW5lcmd5PW9uJnNob3J0cmFuZ2U9b24­mbG9uZ3JhbmdlPW9u




Yes, that is the ammo they are referring to. www.ammoman.com has it much cheaper (delivered to your door) than $275. Give Eric a call.



and how well does it shoot from your experiences?



It shoots well. Never had a misfire, ammo caused feeding problem, or trouble of any sort.



iv read that the Q3131A blew primers



I have not see/hear of troubles with Q3131A. There were reported troubles with Q3131 from a couple years ago.



is Winchester Q3131A 55gr FMJ brass or steel cased?



Boxer primed reloadable brass case. 55gr FMJBT M193 bullet.

Link Posted: 10/14/2002 7:35:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By H3At:
What are anyones Opinions on these kinds of ammunition?

Reliable?

Gets your gun dirty?

Good for Home defense?

Winchester good for 5.56 AR-15's?

which 1 of these would u pick?


And yes iv read http://www.ammo-oracle.com/

i juss wanna pick 1 kind of ammo that i can use on the range and for home defense..and that is readily available at my local gun store

www.winchester.com/law/catalog/cfrlist.eye?cartlist=NS41Nm1t&typelist=none&image=on&summary=on&velocity=on&energy=on&shortrange=on&longrange=on


www.winchester.com/ammunition/store/cfrlist.eye?cartlist=NS41Nm1t&uselist=none&brandlist=none&image=on&summary=on&velocity=on&energy=on&shortrange=on&longrange=on





This one!

www.winchester.com/ammunition/store/cfrlist.eye?cartlist=NS41Nm1t&uselist=none&brandlist=none&image=on&summary=on&velocity=on&energy=on&shortrange=on&longrange=on

Be sure to get product code Q3131A.

There used to be primer issues with Q3131 out of some rifles with some lots (but never Q3131A. It was a big deal here a couple of years ago but I believe even the Q3131 issues are resolved now.

Q3131A is manufacturer to NATO specs by IMI for Winchester. It's been very reliable for the Israelis as you can see if you have been watching TV lately.

It's as clean as any.

It's the legendary M193 cartridge.

It's available at most sporting goods stores by the box.

It's reasonably accurate out of a standard barrel 1/7, 1/12 (It is not finiky about twist rates)or anything in between you should expect 2 MOA.

It is a great self defense round.

It is manufactured for long storage.

If your Bushmaster won't satidfactorily firw this ammo, get the rifle fixed.

Just so that you are not confused, I have answered as I understood your question.This is not what you would want for long range competition target shooting......I believe a heavier (longer)bulley would be more accurate there but you would have to give up somethnig and for self defense you don't need that kind of accuracy.

Hope this helps.

PigPen
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 8:11:07 PM EDT
thanks u guys

u guys really explained it and helped me out a bunch.

And yes pigpen im not doing long range shooting with my bushy 16" A2..I was jus trying to figure out what kind of ammo i should use for target practice and home defense and that would be accurate..

Im gonna get the Q3131A ammo for my rifle but i read ammoman.com is out of Q3131A =( www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=141115
Link Posted: 10/15/2002 8:29:25 AM EDT
Try botach if you dare. I had good luck with 2 cases I ordered from there. Price was $125/case.
Link Posted: 10/15/2002 11:34:45 AM EDT
H3AT,

Try the "223 LAKE CITY XM193 55GR FULL METAL JACKET U.S.G.I. LAKE CITY AMMO, BRAND NEW BOXER PRIMED, U.S. MILITARY AMMO PACKAGED BY FEDERAL MANUFACTURED IN 2002 USING 2000 AND 2001 DATED BRASS" from Ammoman. It is $199 delivered which is still a pretty good price.

You can try Botach, but they have an iffy reputation. Look through the posts for info on them since SEARCH is down.
Link Posted: 10/15/2002 12:00:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2002 9:17:32 AM EDT by Forest]

Originally Posted By H3At:
and how well does it shoot from your experiences?


Shoots very well



iv read that the Q3131A blew primers


No you haven't. It was 1999 production Q3131 that blew the primers (I have some and posted the chrono results of one of the bad batches). Q3131A is quality stuff made by IMI for Winchester.



is Winchester Q3131A 55gr FMJ brass or steel cased?


As its a M193 clone it is brass cased.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 7:39:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrP:
H3AT,

Try the "223 LAKE CITY XM193 55GR FULL METAL JACKET U.S.G.I. LAKE CITY AMMO, BRAND NEW BOXER PRIMED, U.S. MILITARY AMMO PACKAGED BY FEDERAL MANUFACTURED IN 2002 USING 2000 AND 2001 DATED BRASS" from Ammoman. It is $199 delivered which is still a pretty good price.

You can try Botach, but they have an iffy reputation. Look through the posts for info on them since SEARCH is down.



Is lake city made in the USA..I ask this question cuz the bushy im gonna buy from my local gun store says You must use factory loaded and boxed American made ammunition to keep the warranty valid. Reloads, loose bulk gun show ammo and foreign made ammunition will void the warranty. www.goldcoastguns.com/ar15.htm

And i need your opinion on this one where it says We assemble the rifles and lower receivers from 100% Bushmaster factory parts. (These are not Bushmaster factory guns.)Should i be worried? Or should i buy a Upper reciever assembly from Bushmaster directly?
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 9:38:05 AM EDT
This is great ammo. It's loaded very hot compared to standard .223. The only negative that I have seen is that it has a huge fireball out the muzzle. I have shot Q3131A out of a post ban 16" barrel. The muzzle flash is too much for me to use as a defensive round IMO. Still is great ammo though.
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 9:16:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2002 9:18:13 AM EDT by MrP]

Originally Posted By H3At:

Originally Posted By MrP:
H3AT,

Try the "223 LAKE CITY XM193 55GR FULL METAL JACKET U.S.G.I. LAKE CITY AMMO, BRAND NEW BOXER PRIMED, U.S. MILITARY AMMO PACKAGED BY FEDERAL MANUFACTURED IN 2002 USING 2000 AND 2001 DATED BRASS" from Ammoman. It is $199 delivered which is still a pretty good price.

You can try Botach, but they have an iffy reputation. Look through the posts for info on them since SEARCH is down.



Is lake city made in the USA..I ask this question cuz the bushy im gonna buy from my local gun store says You must use factory loaded and boxed American made ammunition to keep the warranty valid. Reloads, loose bulk gun show ammo and foreign made ammunition will void the warranty. www.goldcoastguns.com/ar15.htm

And i need your opinion on this one where it says We assemble the rifles and lower receivers from 100% Bushmaster factory parts. (These are not Bushmaster factory guns.)Should i be worried? Or should i buy a Upper reciever assembly from Bushmaster directly?



H3AT,

Yes, the Federal XM193 is American made factory ammo. It should be fine. Good stuff.

As to the rifle, it looks like they build them themselves. I would suggest spending a couple more bucks to buy a factory AR15 from Bushmaster or Armalite. If you want to save a few bucks, DMPSs are generally well regarded.

Edited: I see your in CA. I don't know if Bushmaster, Armalite or DPMS make a CA legal rifle. You may be stuck paying the extra bucks.
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 3:23:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrP:

H3AT,

Yes, the Federal XM193 is American made factory ammo. It should be fine. Good stuff.

As to the rifle, it looks like they build them themselves. I would suggest spending a couple more bucks to buy a factory AR15 from Bushmaster or Armalite. If you want to save a few bucks, DMPSs are generally well regarded.

Edited: I see your in CA. I don't know if Bushmaster, Armalite or DPMS make a CA legal rifle. You may be stuck paying the extra bucks.



yeahh i think i will be buying a upper reciver assembly from Bushmaster directly

If u look at gold coasts websites the pictures of the stores look pretty professional but im juss being cautious to buy from them..Its the worse buying from somewhere and when u go out to shoot it it fails.i juss need to find people that actually bough an Ar from gold coast..

As for the California laws i will be buying a Upper assembly from BM and will have to get a FAB-10 lower reciever www.redstarmuseum.com/fab10.shtml
im stuck with a 10 round mag and i have to open up the rifle to load it [=(]
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 4:07:37 AM EDT
by the way does anyone have pictures of target shooting with Federal XM193 and or Q3131A.

I wanna see how accurate it will be in a 16" 1:9

-thnx
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 8:09:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By H3At:
by the way does anyone have pictures of target shooting with Federal XM193 and or Q3131A.

I wanna see how accurate it will be in a 16" 1:9



Both are 'accurate enough' for the rifle you specified. However get a box of each and test fire it in YOUR rifle. Each rifle has suble variations. While Q3131 may be the better in MY rifle, it may not be in yours.
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