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10/25/2010 7:14:30 PM EDT
Just curious what the best .22lr conversion kit is for the AR and why.  I was told that Ciener makes the best kit.  However, I have heard of a few other kits that are high quality as well?  I am interested in a kit that is reliable, can stand up to rugged use, and has 30+ round mags available for it.  IS Ciener the best, or are there other kits that can give Ciener a run for its money?
10/25/2010 7:27:57 PM EDT
[#1]


They're all based off the same basic design but from everything I've read here and elsewhere (so take it for what it's worth) Ceiner's "customer service" would preclude me from ever owning one.



I bought the CMMG stainless unit and it's been damned near perfect for me out of a bushy upper. Easy to clean, relatively accurate, etc etc.



On the other hand a friend of mine bought the CMMG parkerized unit and had nothing but problems, on top of that CMMG treated him like shit when he complained about it. So obviously YMMV.



They're so cheap now ($150?) it's hard to pass one up. Be warned though, the "30 round" magazines take some coaxing to load and hold a full 30 rounds.



10/25/2010 7:32:59 PM EDT
[#2]
How does Blackdog compare?
10/25/2010 7:33:36 PM EDT
[#3]
The only 30rd mags are the genuine Ciener skinny steel units and the out of production Gen I  skinny Black Dogs.
Depending on which follower, the BDM and CMMG  mags with the same profile as .223 30rd mags hold 26 or 27 rounds.
Parkerized conversion bolts require breaking in or polishing before full efficiency is reached.
10/25/2010 9:34:14 PM EDT
[#4]
I have a Spike's conversion kit that runs like an absolute champ.  However, I think they've stopped selling them directly and are focusing on the dedicated uppers, which are more accurate.  I bought my Spike's kit from Palmetto State Armory and got free shipping when I ordered some extra mags for it.  Palmetto is also selling the CMMG conversion bolts at a good price.

HTH, YMMV, GL
10/26/2010 4:25:02 AM EDT
[#5]
Read through the threads. You will find your answer.
10/26/2010 4:42:00 AM EDT
[#6]
I've shot many Ciener's, Spike's, CMMG's and Target Master's. Both as conversions and as dedicated bolts.
All have done extremely well. Ciener has no CS. The others are normally Stellar in CS. TacSol only makes a
dedicated upper but they're great too.

Spec
10/26/2010 5:25:42 PM EDT
[#7]
The Tactical Innovations SARCK is a relatively unknown gem - stainless steel unit plus they carry all the necessary replacement parts via their website.
10/26/2010 8:41:19 PM EDT
[#8]
So no real difference between Ceiner, spikes, black dog, etc?  I just want the best possible unit, I could care less about CS.
10/27/2010 2:21:31 AM EDT
[#9]
You'll care if it doesn't work, or if it breaks.
That said, my Ciener conversions (2)work fine, as does my Spike's, M-261, and lefty Christy & Christy.
10/27/2010 4:24:53 AM EDT
[#10]
There are big differences between kits. They were built on the original Atchinson design but have went beyond that.
CMMG is cutting edge at this point. It's the most reliable kit I've tried. And many updates, options are available that you won't find with the others.
Live round extraction, forward assist, cotter pin holding the firing pin, roll pin holding the extractor, recoil springs you don't need to cut, tweak.
Now the BHOA has been released that drops in the lower to full function of the bolt catch.
Full auto trip is being perfected at this moment.
It's as close as you will get to a full functioning AR15, while shooting .22.
My 2 kits have run in 5 different AR's. 7.5", 10.5", 11.5", 16" M4, 16" bull barrel. 3 fte's out of the first mag and thats it.

Small design differences make the difference that you probably won't see at a glance.
All the info on these different kits is in these threads.
10/27/2010 5:34:59 AM EDT
[#11]
shadowcops 100% right. There are so many options available at CMMG
that no one else has. It's worth looking into. I was involved with the prototype
testing and the Kits work so good with BHO, Forward Assist, Live Round
Extraction and the Magazines designed to operate the Bolt Release. One
thing I would suggest is that the Stainless Steel Kit is Primo and worth the
few dollars extra that it costs .
10/29/2010 5:59:00 AM EDT
[#12]
I just ordered the stainless steal CMMG kit from CDNN for $160 shipped. Comes with one mag. Should I buy more CMMG mags or go with the blackdogs? Any better or worse?
10/29/2010 7:36:02 AM EDT
[#13]
If you plan on getting a BHOA, get a CMMG. If not, it doesn't matter.
10/29/2010 9:48:34 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I just ordered the stainless steal CMMG kit from CDNN for $160 shipped. Comes with one mag. Should I buy more CMMG mags or go with the blackdogs? Any better or worse?


The CMMG 10 or 15 round "Straight Body" USGI  replica mags are Sturdy & sexy .
10/29/2010 11:02:56 AM EDT
[#15]
Wow I ordered my conversion kit wednesday and it showed up at my door today! That's some speedy shipping. Two thumbs up to CDNN.
10/29/2010 12:11:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Wow I ordered my conversion kit wednesday and it showed up at my door today! That's some speedy shipping. Two thumbs up to CDNN.


Imagine being able to use your Bolt Catch with it (Get The BHOA & some mags & a Retrofit BHOA kit for your mag you have ,if its CMMG)
10/29/2010 2:21:06 PM EDT
[#17]
I believe the CMMG BHOA will work with any Atchisson bolt.
It certainly works with my lid's Christy & Christy LH bolt, after the rear bolt chamfer.
10/29/2010 3:10:00 PM EDT
[#18]
FYI CDNN is having a great sale on these right now. Now comes with two mags, stainless version for 149.99. shipping is 9.99. http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ar22stcokitw.html
More props for their customer service. I saw this and called and they are sending me a free mag since I just placed my order on tuesday.  Two thumbs way up!
10/29/2010 3:35:34 PM EDT
[#19]
FYI CDNN is having a great sale on these right now. Now comes with two mags, stainless version for 149.99. shipping is 9.99. http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ar22stcokitw.html
More props for their customer service. I saw this and called and they are sending me a free mag since I just placed my order on tuesday.  Two thumbs way up!
10/31/2010 8:34:43 AM EDT
[#20]
CDNN

$5 weekend shipping

One free extra mag w/ purchase

$154.99 shipped
10/31/2010 9:08:25 AM EDT
[#21]
Took the CMMG kit to the range this weekend. Fired around 100 rounds with ZERO failures. I wasn't trying for accuracy as much as I was testing the kit for problems. Passed with flying colors. Once I get some good glass on my AR I plan on shooting for accuracy. I hope for 2" groups or better out of my 1x9.
10/31/2010 9:49:11 AM EDT
[#22]
i've had excellent results with the CMMG conversion kit.  Probably got 4000-5000 rounds through it with only couple misfires, which may have been ammo related.  Still using the two original CMMG magazines that I got with the kit and no problems out of them either.  I did buy a Black Dog Easy Loader that makes reloading magzines much easier.  I clean and lube the kit every 500 rounds+/-.  CMMG recommends 36 grain ammo with the kit, I've been using Federal Bulk with good results.
12/21/2010 3:59:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Question on the CDNN kits: Looks as though they come with the newer BHOA mags but do they have the forward assist notches in them meaning are they the evolution kits?

 
12/22/2010 5:31:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Question on the CDNN kits: Looks as though they come with the newer BHOA mags but do they have the forward assist notches in them meaning are they the evolution kits?  


The forward assist is an option. I don't know that you can get it from CDNN.
The BHOA mags always have black followers. The mags CDNN is showing are standard mags. It does have a bolt hold follower(green) but will not operate the BHOA for bolt hold open after the mag is removed.

So there is no mistake, these kits are not the Evolution Kit. They will work great, but are the older stainless kits.

12/23/2010 3:16:13 PM EDT
[#25]
How hard is it to clean the gas tube and stuff?  I've always heard that the conversion kits were bad about fouling up the gun, which is why I wanted a dedicated upper; however, I just can't afford one.  
I'm getting a gun-range membership for x-mas, so I'd like to shoot .22 to save money.
EDITED TO ADD:
I see most people recommending shooting copper plated/non-exposed lead ammo, and shooting 20rds of 5.56mm to "blow" the crud out.
Just got the stainless CMMG from CDNN for $150 with free shipping.
May get the non-jam charging handle after I do more research.
12/23/2010 3:30:47 PM EDT
[#26]
I shoot 300 rounds of .22, then run a Boresnake through the barrel a couple times while it's still war, put the 5.56 bolt in and fire 3-5 rounds of full powered 5.56.
That will blow the gunk out of the tube.
When I get home, I give the rifle a proper cleaning.
Been shooting them a long time now and I've had no issues.
Use copper wash ammo like Winchester 333 or 555 bulk, Fed bulk 550, or CCI. It stays cleaner longer.
Remington anything will fould it up in a hurry.
Dave
12/24/2010 8:31:02 AM EDT
[#27]
Is running a 22lr conversion thru a piston upper a no-no?  
12/24/2010 10:39:09 AM EDT
[#28]
A conversion kit will work in a 5.56 piston upper if you can remove the piston so the conversion bolt will clear.  Conversions don't use gas tube but most are relieved for gas tube clearance.  DPMS 22 conversion has a hole for the gas tube to slide.
12/24/2010 5:44:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Is running a 22lr conversion thru a piston upper a no-no?  


CMMG kit is made to work with a piston upper.
Dave

1/1/2011 9:00:54 AM EDT
[#30]
Shadow, you seem to know about these .22 kits, I have a Colt LE AR-15 and interested in shooting .22lr however know little about  kits etc..
I saw in the the threads mention of a "dedicated upper"..is this the way to go over say the CDNN SS converison kit...for peak performance?
Ofishl1
1/1/2011 9:13:56 AM EDT
[#31]
For the best performance, definetely go with the dedicated upper. You will get much better accuracy out of it. About double what you will get with a conversion.
My conversions in a 1/9 get about 2" at 50 yards, depending on ammo.
My CMMG M4 LE .22 gets 1" or less depending on ammo. That is with a stock barrel and 4 x scope.
Eley XSP gave me .807 @ 50 yards.
The dedicated upper has the proper 1/16 twist for .22LR. You also have no concern with lead or gunk in the gas tube.
I've never had a problem with gas tube problems shooting .22 through a 5.56 but I run a Boresnake through the warm barrel after shooting .22, then fire 3-5 rounds of 5.56. It will blow the gunk out.
Dave North
1/1/2011 9:29:43 AM EDT
[#32]
Observer, I have a Colt LE AR-15, and interested in shooting .22, I see everyone is talking about conversions here, and I looked at the pic on CDNN of the SS part they sell and you mention...also I see a note about a "dedicated upper",...I am new to this stuff, but I assume the dedicated upper is for peak performance and eliminates any fouling issues?
1/1/2011 9:31:21 AM EDT
[#33]
Thanks Shadow, I am guessing these "dedicated uppers" are high priced compared to the "converions"? Yea..?
1/1/2011 9:34:54 AM EDT
[#34]
Hmm...I just processed the comment about the twist,...my Colt is 1:7,..I imagine in a "converison" that would be even less effective in accuracy if std .22 rifling is 1:16,...pretty good spread there...sounds like a full upper makes sense for longer range shooting.
1/1/2011 12:26:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Cmmg complete dedicated uppers start at $349 Pays for itself in a short time.
I have the M4 LE .22 which is $365
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/M4LEP-.22-LR-Evolution-Upper-w-Receiver-Height-Railed-GB-1646
1/1/2011 1:53:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Looks good, thanks for the link...do you recommend any of the upgrades on their page, ie; bolt, receiver, adapter, SS collar...?
1/1/2011 2:07:15 PM EDT
[#37]
I always recommend the stainless up grade. Both run fine but the stainless is easier to clean, easier to keep clean, needs less lube. I also like the stainless collar but the parkerized one runs fine.

It really is the most reliable .22 semi auto rifle I've ever used, including 10/22's.
If you are trying to match the finish to a mil spec lower you already have, you might go with the anodized.
Dave

Here's another link that will give you more info on options and features.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=145&t=188909
1/1/2011 3:04:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Thanks Dave, a fair amount of info to absorb on their site for options and models..will need to research and ask them some questions.
Appreciate the input,..
Eric
1/3/2011 9:12:29 AM EDT
[#39]
How important are the non jamming charging handles supplied by CMMG?  Do the standard charging handles cause this many issues with conversion kits?
1/3/2011 11:21:52 AM EDT
[#40]
The charging handles are insurance. Out of the several CMMG kit's I've tested, I've only had one that had issues such as FTE's. It was prototype that was not released because of the issues we found.
Another nice feature to the Anti Jam CH is the ability to drop the kit in and remove it without pulling the charging handle.

Is it necessary with a CMMG kit? No, but it's nice to have.
Will it help with other kits that throw empties into the charging handle? Yes it will help.
Dave
1/3/2011 11:40:18 AM EDT
[#41]
Well I was ready to get a SS CMMG kit until I saw all the new Evolution stuff.
1/3/2011 12:28:29 PM EDT
[#42]
The Evolution is the CMMG kit. Depends on where you are buying it. Some dealers have the kits that do not contain the cotter key. Not sure on the live extraction.
What were you looking at exactly?
Dave
1/3/2011 2:33:27 PM EDT
[#43]
tag
1/3/2011 2:53:51 PM EDT
[#44]



Quoted:


The Evolution is the CMMG kit. Depends on where you are buying it. Some dealers have the kits that do not contain the cotter key. Not sure on the live extraction.

What were you looking at exactly?

Dave


Honestly initially I was thinking of a complete upper but the cost difference between a kit and upper were just too much to justify a whole new upper.  But that was comparing to the plain jane cmmg or Spikes conversion kits.  With the updated "Evolution" stuff it makes buying the cheaper kits hard to justify but at the same time if buying the new cmmg stuff, especially in SS, and adding a few mags you just paid for a complete upper!  ;-)  It's hard not to buy the bolt hold back equipped stuff.



 
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