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Posted: 7/1/2006 5:29:00 PM EDT
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I see that J&T Distributing has "H" , "H2", and "H3" Buffers for sale. I also recall something about different color recoil-springs. This brings up the below listed questions for the experts when trying to "up-date" the inside/non-visable parts in an XM177 series/Carbine "Retro-Build" for reliability and non-breakage of expensive parts ($$$): What are the different Buffers used for and when (ammo, rifle vs. carbine length barrel, or ?) and same on different color recoil-springs? Last...what would be the new NSN Numbers/Part-Numbers for the upgraded parts? Regards, RichardS. [email protected] |
Can't answer you questions directly, but I can tell you this. If your piece has an 11 1/2 inch barrel, do not go any heavier than an H buffer, and even that might give you problems. The bullet is out the end of the barrel so soon after going by the gas port, that you lose operating pressure very quickly. I had the same idea that you do, and put a 9mm buffer in my own 177 clone. Fired and ejected (barely) but the bolt/carrier assy didn't go back far enough to even cock the hammer. The heavy buffer works just fine in the 16" barrelled M4gery, but the factory stock piece is back in the 177. 
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Hi Richard, The Colt buffers in the pic represent what I understand to be the evolution of buffers in the 11.5" Colt carbine. All Colt carbines up to the M4 used the unmarked 84.5 gr. buffer on the left. Early CAR buffers have darker bodies with pressed in plastic bumpers as pictured below. Later CAR buffers have aluminum colored bodies with pinned plastic bumpers. I don't have one of these to show you. The next 11.5" Colt buffer was the 157.4 gr. "C" marked Commando 3 pc. steel buffer. It is identical to the unmarked 157.4 gr. Colt 9mm SMG steel buffer next to it except for the "C" on the head. Current Colt Commandos are coming from the factory with the 107.9 gr. "H" marked buffer on the right. Note the early buffers have a full round head where as "H" and later buffers have 3 flats on the head. AFAIK, Colt carbine recoil springs are all the same, then you have Colt rifle length recoil springs, and a green Colt LMG recoil spring which slows the ROF down. The 157.4 gr. 3 pc. Colt 9mm SMG buffer works just fine in SA & FA in 10" & 11.5" Colt M4 uppers using any ammo I have tried from the lower powered Wolf 55gr. to USGI M855/M856. The Colt "C" buffer was superceeded by the Colt "H3" buffer, which is approximately the same weight. I am not an expert on these things & can't help you with NSN numbers. But SAW & Dennis Todd carry these parts. BAR collecting has really slowed down. Not seeing much out there anymore. Hope you got everything you needed. I have a question on M1918A2 stock hardware you probably know the answer to, so will send you an email. HTH, Carey  |
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I don't have the answer to all the question either. But, I did run an H buffer on full auto this weekend with three 733 uppers, a 727 upper, and a 723 upper and all ran fine, even though the old "CAR-15" buffer is the correct one for all of these. Hey Carey, never seen one of those "C" buffers before, is that part covered in BRII? Is that a 1990's 900 series part? Can I use that pic in the Carbine guide?: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=283545 |
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Hi Ekie, Sure. The Colt "C" marked Commando buffer is covered in BRII on p322. It apparently was the first Colt 3 pc steel buffer and was used in the earliest factory Colt M16A2 Commando rifle(not the early select fire AR15 Commando) and early 9mm SMGs. It apparently dates prior to 1986 because some of the Colt 9mm SMGs that entered the NFA registry prior to the 1986 ban will have one from the factory. SAW is sold out but still lists them in their parts section as p/n SA07007. Their price on it used to be $75. Most of the Colt parts vendors referred to them as a "2 pc. "C" buffer". But that gets confusing with the 2 pc steel 9mm SMG/Carbine buffer shown on p323 of BRII, which uses the internal weights & rubber discs. Happy 4th! Carey |
The 733 buttstock groups I got from CMMG came with regular "CAR-15" buffers. Must have been an option of some sort? Hmm, guess I need to study up over lunch. And a good 4th to you too. |
The one on the left is what I have in mine... I know that does not help out at all but hey, I tried... 
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Good info Scott! Unless I missed reading it, this is info not yet found in the reference books. Black tip & white tip buffers have been found in the earliest AR15 XM177s with the 10" barrel and 3.5" moderator. I have confirmed this with an advanced XM collector who has owned 7 different XMs over the years. He still has an XM177E2 with factory serialized 4.5" moderator in his collection. It has the same orange tip buffer as pictured above. This collector says that most XM177E2s he has seen and owned had orange tip buffers, but some early 11.5" with 4.5" moderator AR15 roll marked XM177E2s had the rare black or white tip buffers. If anyone can come up with a pic of a black or white tip buffer, by all means throw it up on this board. Carey |
That is interesting, in that the M16A1 started with a pinned on buffer pad, that was latter dropped. Then picked up again on the M16A2. Looks like the "CAR-15" started with a pinned on, then dropped, then pinned on again with the M4 series. Is buffer original to the Carbine? Am asking because the Carbine is 1970's vintage. |
I don't know if it is original. That is some picture someone sent me two years ago and I forgot who it was. Now that you pointed it out, I noticed it is 1970s vintage with the C on the carrier. I do have more pics of it. |
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