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Posted: 4/5/2014 6:54:33 AM EDT
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After doing some contour work on the barrel and a awesome rail from MI. The only thing I'm waiting for is my new flash hider.
Starting rifle weight 8.25lb's rifle weight with barrel work and new rail 6.69lb's (no flash hider) I'm guessing it will come in at 6.95lb's finished. (my goal was under 7lb's) This is one of my favorite rifles. Will have a range report as soon as my flash hider comes in. Gun on top is my .223 ar-15 mega build Lower is the GII. Just to show size!!!! 
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I'll measure my AP4 profile and post it. The biggest difference between the Recon vs AP4 if one were to go with something like the MI tube and low pro block is going to be barrel profile, car vs mid gas, and stainless vs chrome lined. Cost savings would be determined by what you could pick up the stock rifle for.
1.0 for approx 1.5" after the barrel nut/collar Tapers to .750 under the handguard Steps up to .980 at the gas block junction .750 at gas block Steps down to .600 from gas block to muzzle .720 at muzzle threads I'll try to load some pics tomorrow. |
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sir, thank you so very much for the pics and info.
is that a flute or someting half under hte barrel nut??? Are there mor eon the other side??? Looks like AP4 the barrel could be stepped down to .750 a little sooner, 
also the gas block journal could be stepped down to .600 sooner for use w/ a short low pro gas bloc, & both the gas block and muzzle device shoulders are way longer than they needs to be. Jeesus, might be able to get it below 6.5lbs w/o sights!! If you have a scale, can you throw the short handguards that AP4 came w/? Perhaps along w/ the barrel nut and the rest of the hardware too? I know the colt 15 double shield guars w/ nut, spring, cap etc gross at ca 9oz actually. So, I am pretty sure you could put the MI rifle rail on the AP4 w/ no weight added. I would prefer the chrome bore barrel probably since I would make it light weight anyway, more for CQB. |
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nothing thing I got to know is whether one could put a 9" HG MI Keymod HG on there?
Is the barrel nut the only part that is proper to their DPMS GII HG or is the HG itself also proprietary to the G2? Seems that only the nut needed to be redesigned since you can put AR15 HGs on the gun that mount to a normal 15 HG nut... I poseted up in industry forum, we will see if htey reply... ETA: the g2 HG part of the system is NOT interchangible per a posted question in the ind section. |
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MN Hunter, you planning on doing any barrel work on that gun? Getting it turned a little?
Do you ahve a scale to weigh it? I'd send you $30 bucks to help w/ cost to have adco turn it down here and there a little to see how light we could get the gun. I am awfully curious... What HG are you going to put on there? |
| No plans to turn the barrel down. I have the A2 front sight shaved and ready to pin back on after my MI SSK tube arrives. I have swapped out the commerical receiver extension and stock with a mil-spec one and CTR stock, added a Tango Down grip, and replaced the muzzle device with a thread protector. Once I get the tube installed, I'll get some weights. I have a B5 Sopmod stock I may swap out with the CTR, but I want to see how it balances after getting the tube installed and optics mounted. I feel it's light enough where I don't see any value in messing with the barrel profile. |
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No plans to turn the barrel down. I have the A2 front sight shaved and ready to pin back on after my MI SSK tube arrives. I have swapped out the commerical receiver extension and stock with a mil-spec one and CTR stock, added a Tango Down grip, and replaced the muzzle device with a thread protector. Once I get the tube installed, I'll get some weights. I have a B5 Sopmod stock I may swap out with the CTR, but I want to see how it balances after getting the tube installed and optics mounted. I feel it's light enough where I don't see any value in messing with the barrel profile. well please check back in after you get the HG and let us know how she weigs and balances. |
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Quoted: That's crazy small. One of my first thoughts was that this makes the SCAR 17 pointless when I held the GII at SHOT, unless you're really hung up about having a folding stock. Damn. Might be enough to convince me to put my Mega MATen receiver set up for sale... |
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if your talking about between the gas block and flash hider. .73 Quoted:
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OP, what was the od of the barrel in front of the gas block journal? if your talking about between the gas block and flash hider. .73 Wow, i wonder how light it could be if it was .600 there. Ill do some figures... You sure your scale is right? With a few v7 parts and a skeletanized gas block and some more barrel work and skelatanizing the mag well and bolt carrier tail.... prolly get near 6lbs... |
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So the 5.56 MI SSK rail fits the DPMS GII 308 upper/barrel without any mods? NO. I asked them this specific question. First of the SS and SSK do not fit on a standard barrel nut, the nut is proprietary. Second, they said that the nut they made for the GII is proprietary to it and that it will not hold a SSK or SS handguards made for AR15s. The GII HG will only fit on the peculiar GII nut. |
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<a href="http://s4.photobucket.com/user/astross89/media/IMAG0055.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/astross89/IMAG0055.jpg</a> also haven't decided on optics Quoted:
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how about a pic with just the mi bareel nut installed? <a href="http://s4.photobucket.com/user/astross89/media/IMAG0055.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/astross89/IMAG0055.jpg</a> also haven't decided on optics OP, what is that gas block and its weight if you know it?? |
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Nope... The rail you're seeing on the OP's rifle is a G2-specific model being made by MI. Quoted:
Nope... The rail you're seeing on the OP's rifle is a G2-specific model being made by MI. Quoted:
NO. I asked them this specific question. First of the SS and SSK do not fit on a standard barrel nut, the nut is proprietary. Second, they said that the nut they made for the GII is proprietary to it and that it will not hold a SSK or SS handguards made for AR15s. The GII HG will only fit on the peculiar GII nut. I was curious to what AR15 rails would fit the G2 DPMS. Didn't know MI had a specific SS rail for the G2 DPMS. Thanks guys. |
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honestly, I wish the recon had a carbine gas system, then I could cut it to ca 14" and permattach a suppressor mount. I have reason to belive a middy needs a 16" barrel to be reliable in 308. I can't shorten the AP4 b/c the barrel is too skinny to make a new shoulder...
ETA: starting w/ the OP's 6.69 lbs, if I cut ca 2" off the barrel and turned down about 4" of barrel in front of the gas block from .73" to .60", that is about 2 cu" of steel or about 9 oz or savings, or .563 lbs. The add 3 oz for a permattached muzzle accessory, or about .1875 lbs and you end up w/ 6.31 lbs w/o trimming down the gas blcok area or cutting the carrier or mag well or using special LW small parts or anyting. A below 6lb 308 rifle, sans sigts but w/ sight bases, seems feasible w/ a few extra measures. Hell, even just throwing a pair of Troy flips on that woudl only bring you to 6.513 lbs by just shorting and turning OP's barrel a little... |
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14.5 middy. should be no problem with a 308 it has plenty of gas. or you could always change it to carbine if needed. adco does it all the time. I actually took a carvine gas 16 and had it moved to intermediate gas. best money I ever spent on mods. There was a guy on here who tried to cut an armalite middy to like 14" but never could get it to run right. Didn't noveskie have a TWO proprietary gas tube lengths for their short AR10s? I know the Leonidas used one of about an inch longer than carbine for its 12.5" barrel. But they also sold an AR10 w/ 14.5 or so inch barrel and I think it may have had a proprietary gas tube length as well, not sure if it was longer or shorter than middy though.. The leonidas tube is about right in the middle of carbine and middy... What is this "intermediate gas" you speak of? I did have a 14.5 middy AR15 and it worked great. True that a 308 has lots more gas to make up for the reduced dwell time... Stands to reason it might work, if the leonidas w/ a 12.5" barrel had an "8 inch" system, a 14" barrel should work w/ a "9 inch" gas system.... I do like a chome bore, but probably the recon would be a better starting point for my use I guess... |
| the intermediate gas tube came from noveski. its between mid and rifle length. the only number in my head is its 3/8" longer than a kac tube in the sr15. and it gets into the front sight on a urx3 that I was planing to use on that barrel. so it got a nsr on it instead. it took a hard kicking, over gassed, case shredding carbine gas barrel and turned it into a soft shooting gun. im planing to move my rifle gas 20" 308 to a rifle +2" soon as I figure out a gas block. now you have me thinking about moving the gas on my recon out to intermediat length. I am going to install a adjustable gas block first. as it is hard on case rims already as a mid with stout factory loads. if I do I'll have to chronograph a few loads and see if moving the gas tube has an effect. I think it should. |
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yeah, I suppose it could have an impact on MV, longer gas tubes... course maybe it could go etiher way.
Anyway, the application for an intermediate tube is for like an 18" barrel? Dunno about moving the recon port out more... If you dont' have enough dwell time, it can require a stiffer gas pulse sometimes to get the BCG going good enough before the bullet exits the muzzle. An adjustable gas block is probably better place to start. |
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OP, one more questio. What is OAL of your gun from back of receiver extention to the muzzle w/o muzzle device?
Thx ETA: did some figures... one could take OPs gun, w/ the furniture there, add a 3.46 oz muzzle accessory (surefire socom brake), cut 2.25" off the barrel and do permmattach, and reprofile ahead of the gas block to .600" and the gun would weigh 6.52 lbs/6 lbs 7.36 oz empty w/o sights. You could easily loose another 5 oz by switching to a lighter grip and putting an ACE UL stock assembly on it. Loose another 1 oz by removing te F/A assembly, and using a V7 castle nut and end plate in place of steel ones would get you at below 6 lbs empty! (w/o sights). Still, even the G2 won't be able to get down at or below 6 or even 5 lbs the way an AR15 can. Pretty good for a battle rifle but not going to be like a 30 carbine or an M4. Not too shabby. I have a 16" AR15 w/ 15" FF tube at 7.2 lbs w/ a set of flip up on it. 
how light was glock slaps 308 again? |
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OP, one more questio. What is OAL of your gun from back of receiver extention to the muzzle w/o muzzle device? Thx ETA: did some figures... one could take OPs gun, w/ the furniture there, add a 3.46 oz muzzle accessory (surefire socom brake), cut 2.25" off the barrel and do permmattach, and reprofile ahead of the gas block to .600" and the gun would weigh 6.52 lbs/6 lbs 7.36 oz empty w/o sights. You could easily loose another 5 oz by switching to a lighter grip and putting an ACE UL stock assembly on it. Loose another 1 oz by removing te F/A assembly, and using a V7 castle nut and end plate in place of steel ones would get you at below 7 lbs empty! (w/o sights). Not too shabby. I have a 16" AR15 w/ 15" FF tube at 7.2 lbs w/ a set of flip up on it.
how light was glock slaps 308 again? 32.25 without the muzzle |
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Still, even the G2 won't be able to get down at or below 6 or even 5 lbs the way an AR15 can. Pretty good for a battle rifle but not going to be like a 30 carbine or an M4. Was able to throw my modified G2 AP4 on a scale last night, along with a stock G2 AP4 that a buddy picked up. Stock G2 AP4 w/ rear sight removed = 7.1lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/CTR stock = 6.5lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/B5 Sopmod = 6.6lb My Modified G2 AP4 with optics/CTR = 7.7lb Overall length collapsed/CTR = 32 1/4" Overall length fully extended/CTR = 35 1/2" There is still ample room for additional weight savings if one were to look at reprofiling/shortening the barrel, shorter carbon tube, lighter stock, etc. I'm happy where I'm at with the platform. 
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Was able to throw my modified G2 AP4 on a scale last night, along with a stock G2 AP4 that a buddy picked up. Stock G2 AP4 w/ rear sight removed = 7.1lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/CTR stock = 6.5lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/B5 Sopmod = 6.6lb My Modified G2 AP4 with optics/CTR = 7.7lb Overall length collapsed/CTR = 32 1/4" Overall length fully extended/CTR = 35 1/2" There is still ample room for additional weight savings if one were to look at reprofiling/shortening the barrel, shorter carbon tube, lighter stock, etc. I'm happy where I'm at with the platform. <a href="http://s1346.photobucket.com/user/churchilljason/media/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p689/churchilljason/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg</a> Quoted:
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Still, even the G2 won't be able to get down at or below 6 or even 5 lbs the way an AR15 can. Pretty good for a battle rifle but not going to be like a 30 carbine or an M4. Was able to throw my modified G2 AP4 on a scale last night, along with a stock G2 AP4 that a buddy picked up. Stock G2 AP4 w/ rear sight removed = 7.1lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/CTR stock = 6.5lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/B5 Sopmod = 6.6lb My Modified G2 AP4 with optics/CTR = 7.7lb Overall length collapsed/CTR = 32 1/4" Overall length fully extended/CTR = 35 1/2" There is still ample room for additional weight savings if one were to look at reprofiling/shortening the barrel, shorter carbon tube, lighter stock, etc. I'm happy where I'm at with the platform. <a href="http://s1346.photobucket.com/user/churchilljason/media/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p689/churchilljason/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg</a> Considering most of my freefloated 16" 5.56 ARs have been in the 9-10lb range with optics, that final weight is very impressive. I would not be unhappy at all with a 7.7lb .308. |
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Was able to throw my modified G2 AP4 on a scale last night, along with a stock G2 AP4 that a buddy picked up. Stock G2 AP4 w/ rear sight removed = 7.1lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/CTR stock = 6.5lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/B5 Sopmod = 6.6lb My Modified G2 AP4 with optics/CTR = 7.7lb Overall length collapsed/CTR = 32 1/4" Overall length fully extended/CTR = 35 1/2" There is still ample room for additional weight savings if one were to look at reprofiling/shortening the barrel, shorter carbon tube, lighter stock, etc. I'm happy where I'm at with the platform. <a href="http://s1346.photobucket.com/user/churchilljason/media/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p689/churchilljason/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg</a> Quoted:
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Still, even the G2 won't be able to get down at or below 6 or even 5 lbs the way an AR15 can. Pretty good for a battle rifle but not going to be like a 30 carbine or an M4. Was able to throw my modified G2 AP4 on a scale last night, along with a stock G2 AP4 that a buddy picked up. Stock G2 AP4 w/ rear sight removed = 7.1lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/CTR stock = 6.5lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/B5 Sopmod = 6.6lb My Modified G2 AP4 with optics/CTR = 7.7lb Overall length collapsed/CTR = 32 1/4" Overall length fully extended/CTR = 35 1/2" There is still ample room for additional weight savings if one were to look at reprofiling/shortening the barrel, shorter carbon tube, lighter stock, etc. I'm happy where I'm at with the platform. <a href="http://s1346.photobucket.com/user/churchilljason/media/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p689/churchilljason/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg</a> Sweet... Next question, is it a bit of a handful to shoot? 
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Was able to throw my modified G2 AP4 on a scale last night, along with a stock G2 AP4 that a buddy picked up. Stock G2 AP4 w/ rear sight removed = 7.1lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/CTR stock = 6.5lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/B5 Sopmod = 6.6lb My Modified G2 AP4 with optics/CTR = 7.7lb Overall length collapsed/CTR = 32 1/4" Overall length fully extended/CTR = 35 1/2" There is still ample room for additional weight savings if one were to look at reprofiling/shortening the barrel, shorter carbon tube, lighter stock, etc. I'm happy where I'm at with the platform. <a href="http://s1346.photobucket.com/user/churchilljason/media/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p689/churchilljason/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg</a> Quoted:
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Still, even the G2 won't be able to get down at or below 6 or even 5 lbs the way an AR15 can. Pretty good for a battle rifle but not going to be like a 30 carbine or an M4. Was able to throw my modified G2 AP4 on a scale last night, along with a stock G2 AP4 that a buddy picked up. Stock G2 AP4 w/ rear sight removed = 7.1lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/CTR stock = 6.5lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/B5 Sopmod = 6.6lb My Modified G2 AP4 with optics/CTR = 7.7lb Overall length collapsed/CTR = 32 1/4" Overall length fully extended/CTR = 35 1/2" There is still ample room for additional weight savings if one were to look at reprofiling/shortening the barrel, shorter carbon tube, lighter stock, etc. I'm happy where I'm at with the platform. <a href="http://s1346.photobucket.com/user/churchilljason/media/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p689/churchilljason/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg</a> What mods besides the fsb chop, HG, and new grip/stock? |
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What mods besides the fsb chop, HG, and new grip/stock? Quoted:
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Still, even the G2 won't be able to get down at or below 6 or even 5 lbs the way an AR15 can. Pretty good for a battle rifle but not going to be like a 30 carbine or an M4. Was able to throw my modified G2 AP4 on a scale last night, along with a stock G2 AP4 that a buddy picked up. Stock G2 AP4 w/ rear sight removed = 7.1lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/CTR stock = 6.5lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/B5 Sopmod = 6.6lb My Modified G2 AP4 with optics/CTR = 7.7lb Overall length collapsed/CTR = 32 1/4" Overall length fully extended/CTR = 35 1/2" There is still ample room for additional weight savings if one were to look at reprofiling/shortening the barrel, shorter carbon tube, lighter stock, etc. I'm happy where I'm at with the platform. <a href="http://s1346.photobucket.com/user/churchilljason/media/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p689/churchilljason/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg</a> What mods besides the fsb chop, HG, and new grip/stock? Mods include the following: removed muzzle break and installed thread protector shaved down A2 front sight delta pack/end cap removal MI SSK 12" freefloat with nut modified Noveske TRX bipod/sling stud Tango Down grip removed rear backup sight mil-spec receiver extension Noveske QD end plate Magpul CTR stock Nikon Monarch 2-8x in a no name mount |
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Thx for that.
Dang, i am struggling with a spread sheet doing figures to see how light i might can get my 12.5 armalite. With a CTR, a custom carbon f hablndguard and a reprofilong the barrel and changing gas block and even skeletonizing the mag well the closest i can get is 7.02 lbs without sights, light or muzzle accessory but with sling sockets and two little rail sections to mount a front sight and a light. That would br the functional equivalent to what you have. The only other place i can take from would be sleletonizing the bolt carrier. And i do not have a F/A at all on this upper. W/o going to such extremes, i think the G2 is about 3/4 lb less than a similarly equipped Armalite. |
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Op and mn hunter have convinced me to start sellin some of my armalites.
Im going to ty an AP4 out but ill lighten the barrel a wee bit, put adj gas block on it and the MI HG. The combination of the weight and the narrow diameter handguard sells it. Ill probablybskeletanize the mag well and bolt carrier too just to take it to the limit. |
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Op and mn hunter have convinced me to start sellin some of my armalites. Im going to ty an AP4 out but ill lighten the barrel a wee bit, put adj gas block on it and the MI HG. The combination of the weight and the narrow diameter handguard sells it. Ill probablybskeletanize the mag well and bolt carrier too just to take it to the limit. I am goint to try to take this build to the limit. Can someone please mic the OD and length of ejecton port cover pin? I am going to try try and get an aluminum pin. Also, does this thing use a standard AR15 receiver and buffers? Does is the rear take down pin a standard AR15? What about the front? Thx |
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I am goint to try to take this build to the limit. Can someone please mic the OD and length of ejecton port cover pin? I am going to try try and get an aluminum pin. Also, does this thing use a standard AR15 receiver and buffers? Does is the rear take down pin a standard AR15? What about the front? Thx Quoted:
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Op and mn hunter have convinced me to start sellin some of my armalites. Im going to ty an AP4 out but ill lighten the barrel a wee bit, put adj gas block on it and the MI HG. The combination of the weight and the narrow diameter handguard sells it. Ill probablybskeletanize the mag well and bolt carrier too just to take it to the limit. I am goint to try to take this build to the limit. Can someone please mic the OD and length of ejecton port cover pin? I am going to try try and get an aluminum pin. Also, does this thing use a standard AR15 receiver and buffers? Does is the rear take down pin a standard AR15? What about the front? Thx Looks like the takedown pin is standard AR15, the pivot pin is unique to the G2 http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_627/247573_GII_Cross_Compatibility_Chart.html Receiver extension is standard AR15, but the buffer and spring are uniques to the G2 I can probably get you the od of the ejection port cover pin, but the length can not be obtained without disassembly |
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Mods include the following: removed muzzle break and installed thread protector shaved down A2 front sight delta pack/end cap removal MI SSK 12" freefloat with nut modified Noveske TRX bipod/sling stud Tango Down grip removed rear backup sight mil-spec receiver extension Noveske QD end plate Magpul CTR stock Nikon Monarch 2-8x in a no name mount Quoted:
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Still, even the G2 won't be able to get down at or below 6 or even 5 lbs the way an AR15 can. Pretty good for a battle rifle but not going to be like a 30 carbine or an M4. Was able to throw my modified G2 AP4 on a scale last night, along with a stock G2 AP4 that a buddy picked up. Stock G2 AP4 w/ rear sight removed = 7.1lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/CTR stock = 6.5lb My modified G2 AP4 without optics/B5 Sopmod = 6.6lb My Modified G2 AP4 with optics/CTR = 7.7lb Overall length collapsed/CTR = 32 1/4" Overall length fully extended/CTR = 35 1/2" There is still ample room for additional weight savings if one were to look at reprofiling/shortening the barrel, shorter carbon tube, lighter stock, etc. I'm happy where I'm at with the platform. <a href="http://s1346.photobucket.com/user/churchilljason/media/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p689/churchilljason/308g_zps2b87998d.jpg</a> What mods besides the fsb chop, HG, and new grip/stock? Mods include the following: removed muzzle break and installed thread protector shaved down A2 front sight delta pack/end cap removal MI SSK 12" freefloat with nut modified Noveske TRX bipod/sling stud Tango Down grip removed rear backup sight mil-spec receiver extension Noveske QD end plate Magpul CTR stock Nikon Monarch 2-8x in a no name mount Tell me this, how does one place a Mil-Spec receiver extension into the Commercial diameter receiver? Serious question. |
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