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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Titanium BCG (Page 1 of 5)
Posted: 2/1/2014 11:54:48 AM EDT
| Does anybody sell Titanium 5.56 BCG's? |
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Not to much info on where to buy. But these guy makes them.
BOOMFAB |
| I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. As for the carrier, it would make it lighter which would increase cycling rate and decrease dwell time. One could just buy a semi steel carrier and lighter buffer if decreased dwell is what you're looking for. |
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We will be selling Titanium M16 carriers soon. Quoted:
We will be selling Titanium M16 carriers soon. Weight? Quoted:
what does titanium bring to the party? Lighter than steel, more durable than aluminum. Reduces weight of the weapon and the carrier assembly which makes for LESS recoil and faster follow up shots 
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Our new 6AL4V Titanium carrier has some awesome features which we are in the process of getting a patent on. So I can't say much right now, but with this new carrier you don't need to use an adjustable gas system, heavier buffer, or a heavier buffer spring, even with the reduced weight. Just drop it in place and start shooting. Also our carrier has a Tool Steel sleeve inside the bore for added durability. It's done the same exact way that steel sleeves are put into Aluminum race engine blocks. They are also Hard Anodized Grey and infused with Teflon for wear resistance.
Here's the prototypes (made for our shooting team) these don't have the patented features shown. :-) 
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Dammit Tom... http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/52ce606edf828c904ec2eec6da3a868c.jpg I'm working on it man! The Titanium carriers are in production now. |
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That carrier is LIGHTER than my old Progressive Machine &Tool titanium carrier!!! http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/DSC01359.jpg Any chance you will offer Cam Pins out of S7? More durable S7 cam pins are in the works as well. Here's our S7 bolt. 
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I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. Stronger...Tougher...Harder?? Titanium is a very tough material...but personally I don't think it would be well suited for a Bolt material. It's actually not very hard at all. If you have ever cut Ti it cuts similar to Aluminum versus steel(machining-wise). |
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Looks pretty cool. I thought the heavier full auto carriers actually helped with reliability compared to the neutered 1/2 circle carriers of the past? Quoted:
Looks pretty cool. I thought the heavier full auto carriers actually helped with reliability compared to the neutered 1/2 circle carriers of the past? I've ran LIGHTWEIGHT carriers for several DECADES with no reliability issues. Quoted:
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I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. Stronger...Tougher...Harder?? Titanium is a very tough material...but personally I don't think it would be well suited for a Bolt material. It's actually not very hard at all. If you have ever cut Ti it cuts similar to Aluminum versus steel(machining-wise). Keep in mind, there have been ALUMINUM bolt carriers! Titanium wears a hell of a lot better than aluminum. I've ran both.
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Why would you have a problem with a tough material? Or did you mean to say you have no problem with it? Quoted:
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We have to occassionally cut off titanium rings at work. I have problem with a BCG being made from material that detroys my ring cutters. Why would you have a problem with a tough material? Or did you mean to say you have no problem with it? Thanks for catching that. I corrected my statement. I make most of my posts from my cell phone at work, so I frequently have to make corrections. |
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Thanks for catching that. I corrected my statement. I make most of my posts from my cell phone at work, so I frequently have to make corrections. Quoted:
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We have to occassionally cut off titanium rings at work. I have problem with a BCG being made from material that detroys my ring cutters. Why would you have a problem with a tough material? Or did you mean to say you have no problem with it? Thanks for catching that. I corrected my statement. I make most of my posts from my cell phone at work, so I frequently have to make corrections. Me too. Fat finger deluxe |
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Our new 6AL4V Titanium carrier has some awesome features which we are in the process of getting a patent on. So I can't say much right now, but with this new carrier you don't need to use an adjustable gas system, heavier buffer, or a heavier buffer spring, even with the reduced weight. Just drop it in place and start shooting. Also our carrier has a Tool Steel sleeve inside the bore for added durability. It's done the same exact way that steel sleeves are put into Aluminum race engine blocks. They are also Hard Anodized Grey and infused with Teflon for wear resistance. Here's the prototypes (made for our shooting team) these don't have the patented features shown. :-) <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/Intake/0E9F4D25-AFA1-44AB-BD38-78F7AC5239A6_zpsqhzw64p0.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/Intake/0E9F4D25-AFA1-44AB-BD38-78F7AC5239A6_zpsqhzw64p0.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/5F389912-9C1D-4C65-8B02-4CC676555BE4_zpsuyolvsyd.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/5F389912-9C1D-4C65-8B02-4CC676555BE4_zpsuyolvsyd.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/10CE2F10-5A53-4F6A-B109-FE05E8D60237_zpsyac19s6k.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/10CE2F10-5A53-4F6A-B109-FE05E8D60237_zpsyac19s6k.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/D38FC5F9-1A72-4322-9294-F91C97EC0CF5_zpsoqnl5iv0.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/D38FC5F9-1A72-4322-9294-F91C97EC0CF5_zpsoqnl5iv0.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/0309EDBB-BB2B-4314-800B-7F148F6FE4F2_zps3tgfbzwb.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/0309EDBB-BB2B-4314-800B-7F148F6FE4F2_zps3tgfbzwb.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/204004F8-C9A2-4B05-841D-A7A9A2074CAE_zpslgfrhsxu.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/204004F8-C9A2-4B05-841D-A7A9A2074CAE_zpslgfrhsxu.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/B6ACC48D-A976-4107-9199-D2F72DE5DD86_zpsbc46scvr.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/B6ACC48D-A976-4107-9199-D2F72DE5DD86_zpsbc46scvr.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/1FBD3C20-6683-4D9E-AF61-0C57EF24FE96_zps80wi9koo.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/1FBD3C20-6683-4D9E-AF61-0C57EF24FE96_zps80wi9koo.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/AB992B41-9473-4C6F-812E-E430D3EBB2FD_zpsrtjhutig.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/AB992B41-9473-4C6F-812E-E430D3EBB2FD_zpsrtjhutig.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/CC3C72BB-1216-4AD3-BA7A-635F10AEB780_zpsukgvtiii.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/CC3C72BB-1216-4AD3-BA7A-635F10AEB780_zpsukgvtiii.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/9178E091-C84B-47E8-B8A0-5409FBB4EC3F_zpstxgcsdhn.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/9178E091-C84B-47E8-B8A0-5409FBB4EC3F_zpstxgcsdhn.jpg</a> Why all the holes? I understand it makes it lighter, but isn't it already lighter than a standard BCG? |
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I'm working on it man! The Titanium carriers are in production now. Quoted:
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Dammit Tom... http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/52ce606edf828c904ec2eec6da3a868c.jpg I'm working on it man! The Titanium carriers are in production now. I am getting ready to by an additional BCG, that looks sweet! I may have to cough up the extra for that. Nice!! |
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More durable S7 cam pins are in the works as well. Here's our S7 bolt. <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/Intake/C629DE69-CA50-4D64-BA9E-A28FA1086B8F_zpskp6mpcqr.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/Intake/C629DE69-CA50-4D64-BA9E-A28FA1086B8F_zpskp6mpcqr.jpg</a> Quoted:
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That carrier is LIGHTER than my old Progressive Machine &Tool titanium carrier!!! http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/DSC01359.jpg Any chance you will offer Cam Pins out of S7? More durable S7 cam pins are in the works as well. Here's our S7 bolt. <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/Intake/C629DE69-CA50-4D64-BA9E-A28FA1086B8F_zpskp6mpcqr.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/Intake/C629DE69-CA50-4D64-BA9E-A28FA1086B8F_zpskp6mpcqr.jpg</a> What is the reason for the dimpling? Looks like that would make it harder to clean. |
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What is the reason for the dimpling? Looks like that would make it harder to clean. Quoted:
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That carrier is LIGHTER than my old Progressive Machine &Tool titanium carrier!!! http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/DSC01359.jpg Any chance you will offer Cam Pins out of S7? More durable S7 cam pins are in the works as well. Here's our S7 bolt. <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/Intake/C629DE69-CA50-4D64-BA9E-A28FA1086B8F_zpskp6mpcqr.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/Intake/C629DE69-CA50-4D64-BA9E-A28FA1086B8F_zpskp6mpcqr.jpg</a> What is the reason for the dimpling? Looks like that would make it harder to clean. So don't clean it dimpling reduces weight and adds awesomeness
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I could have gone a lot lighter but I wanted to keep the M16 feature. Quoted:
I could have gone a lot lighter but I wanted to keep the M16 feature. Tom, that looks great, but I'm just curious why no holes on the underside of the M16 carrier? If weight reduction is the goal, seems like you could get at least 2 more without interfering with the buffer tube retaining pin channel. I'm really excited aboutt all the new parts. That S- 7 bolt looks awesome as does the Forged FCG and new receivers. Will you be doing any forged M16 FCGs? Quoted:
Weight reduction, more surface area, clean it?? I'm also thinking the dimples will displace debris and carbon build up that may otherwise jam a rifle, like a sand cut FAL bolt carrier |
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So don't clean it dimpling reduces weight and adds awesomenessQuoted:
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That carrier is LIGHTER than my old Progressive Machine &Tool titanium carrier!!! http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/DSC01359.jpg Any chance you will offer Cam Pins out of S7? More durable S7 cam pins are in the works as well. Here's our S7 bolt. <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/Intake/C629DE69-CA50-4D64-BA9E-A28FA1086B8F_zpskp6mpcqr.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/Intake/C629DE69-CA50-4D64-BA9E-A28FA1086B8F_zpskp6mpcqr.jpg</a> What is the reason for the dimpling? Looks like that would make it harder to clean. So don't clean it dimpling reduces weight and adds awesomenessNo, the dimples make it more aerodynamic and gets you longer range for each shot. TRG |
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Quoted: Why does a standard bolt need weight reduction? How much weight reduction can you even get with those shallow dimples? Less than half an ounce? |
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Tom, that looks great, but I'm just curious why no holes on the underside of the M16 carrier? If weight reduction is the goal, seems like you could get at least 2 more without interfering with the buffer tube retaining pin channel. I'm really excited aboutt all the new parts. That S- 7 bolt looks awesome as does the Forged FCG and new receivers. Will you be doing any forged M16 FCGs? I'm also thinking the dimples will displace debris and carbon build up that may otherwise jam a rifle, like a sand cut FAL bolt carrier Quoted:
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I could have gone a lot lighter but I wanted to keep the M16 feature. Tom, that looks great, but I'm just curious why no holes on the underside of the M16 carrier? If weight reduction is the goal, seems like you could get at least 2 more without interfering with the buffer tube retaining pin channel. I'm really excited aboutt all the new parts. That S- 7 bolt looks awesome as does the Forged FCG and new receivers. Will you be doing any forged M16 FCGs? Quoted:
Weight reduction, more surface area, clean it?? I'm also thinking the dimples will displace debris and carbon build up that may otherwise jam a rifle, like a sand cut FAL bolt carrier I'm excited as well, been working on all of this stuff forever. Honestly I didn't feel it needed to be any lighter. Using the Ti material was already a huge weight savings. |
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Why does a standard bolt need weight reduction? How much weight reduction can you even get with those shallow dimples? Less than half an ounce? Our 8620 lightweight carrier is 1 ounce lighter than a standard M16 carrier. This Ti carrier is a 4.5 ounce weight reduction over the standard M16 carrier. |
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What is a ball park price for this Ti goodness? These are the projected retail prices: Sleeved (self tuning) Titanium carrier w/Hard Anodized Grey Teflon infused finish and properly attached carrier key. $275 Complete S7 NiB coated bolt. $124.95 Complete BCG (Ti carrier - S7 bolt). $385 |
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They will be available as soon as all the patent crap is in place. Making them isn't a big deal and won't take long at all. The process is already figured out. Quoted:
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When do you think they will be up for sale? They will be available as soon as all the patent crap is in place. Making them isn't a big deal and won't take long at all. The process is already figured out. Have you compared cyclic rates on FA guns with your design and a standard carrier? TRG |
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Have you compared cyclic rates on FA guns with your design and a standard carrier? TRG Quoted:
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When do you think they will be up for sale? They will be available as soon as all the patent crap is in place. Making them isn't a big deal and won't take long at all. The process is already figured out. Have you compared cyclic rates on FA guns with your design and a standard carrier? TRG Full auto function and durability was my main concern. I tested everything possible. It is awesome! I can't go into detail but with the patented features on this carrier it really is a drop in solution with no adjustable gas system required. |
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Full auto function and durability was my main concern. I tested everything possible. It is awesome! I can't go into detail but with the patented features on this carrier it really is a drop in solution with no adjustable gas system required. Quoted:
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When do you think they will be up for sale? They will be available as soon as all the patent crap is in place. Making them isn't a big deal and won't take long at all. The process is already figured out. Have you compared cyclic rates on FA guns with your design and a standard carrier? TRG Full auto function and durability was my main concern. I tested everything possible. It is awesome! I can't go into detail but with the patented features on this carrier it really is a drop in solution with no adjustable gas system required. This is interesting... Also what do you mean by sleeved, self tuning? |
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I'm interested in what the difference is to the end user?
Obviously a few ounces in weight savings Any noticeable difference to the recoil impulse? Faster cycling? Smoother or sharper feeling? How about when used in combination with a suppressor? Does the extra back pressure hammer it any harder? Does it require the use of a stronger buffer spring?[/li] Reliability? |
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These are the projected retail prices: Sleeved (self tuning) Titanium carrier w/Hard Anodized Grey Teflon infused finish and properly attached carrier key. $275 Complete S7 NiB coated bolt. $124.95 Complete BCG (Ti carrier - S7 bolt). $385 Quoted:
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What is a ball park price for this Ti goodness? These are the projected retail prices: Sleeved (self tuning) Titanium carrier w/Hard Anodized Grey Teflon infused finish and properly attached carrier key. $275 Complete S7 NiB coated bolt. $124.95 Complete BCG (Ti carrier - S7 bolt). $385 DAMN
I expected higher than that considering what I originally paid for my Progressive Machine & Tool Titanium carrier (and it wasn't steel lined). Sounds like I'm going to be broke for a LONG time changing all of my carriers and bolts. (Not to mention how you are getting into my pockets on all of the other cool stuff you are releasing) |
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Here's a little more info about the Titanium carrier, but after this, there probably isn't much more I can tell you about it. We are in the middle of filing about 10 different patents right now. We've come up with some truly innovative products lately. In the past I've always said screw the patent crap but these really are good enough to protect. Plus I want some patents on my wall and I don't wanna see everyone else doing it. Anyways, the bore of the carrier has it's own Melonited and heat treated tool steel sleeve to greatly increase the durability of the carrier. It's a separate piece, it's installed using a properitarty process developed by John Mihovetz of Accufab Racing. Accufab developed this process for putting steel sleeves in aluminum race engine blocks that see well over 2500 HP. Their process is very sound and they have an extremely high success rate and years of experience which I why asked for their help on this project. It's nice having friends in the racing industry, it really helps strengthen the ST product line. Our resources allow us to make cutting edge products. The tool steel sleeves are ground and super precise, they are in place for life after being installed using Accufab's process. Titanium isn't really good with high temperature and high pressure, maybe one or the other, but not both combined. Which is why I choose to use tool steel in the areas where it will see hot pressurized gasses. As far as durability goes, the rest of the carrier is sound, the hard anodize and Teflon helped here big time. The surface hardness wasn't quite high enough with just RAW Titanium. I originally wanted to do them RAW so you could see the crazy oxidized discoloration that Titanium does when it gets hot, but it just wasn't durable enough in my opinion without any finish on the surface. Honestly it probably would have been fine for most users but I wanted to build something that would last forever, not a $300 throw away part. I personally couldn't justify spending this type of money on a part for it to eventually wear out and become useless. That's stupid and doesn't make sense unless your competing and need everything you can get. Not to mention with our Lifetime Warranty it would get expensive for us quickly to be replacing wore out parts. I needed it to be bullet proof and I definitely did my homework and testing on this design. I made some Titanium gas blocks a few years ago and in extreme conditions I noticed that they would erode pretty badly even being hard anodized. The hard anodize finish helped some but it just wasn't enough to fight off the hot pressurized gasses. That is what gave me the idea to use the sleeve inside the bore. If it wasn't for this sleeve idea working out I probably wouldn't have made a Titanium carrier at all. The erosion was a deal breaker for me. I already knew there would be no issues using the stainless gas rings on tool steel, but on Titanium that's a different story, who knows how long it would last before wear or galling. I try to stick to what works and what's proven, so I take that into consideration when I design something. I also like to maintain mil-spec compatibility every where I can because again it's proven and properitarty parts are a pain in the ass. Surprisingly to date I haven't seen any wear issues in the cam pin slot what so ever, even when they were RAW. At first I was concerned but it hasn't been an issue. What I meant by self tuning is this, you can take this carrier and drop in into an existing M4, 14.5" middy, 11.5", ect. and instantly have a huge increase in performance without the need of an adjustable gas system, a heavier buffer, or a heavier spring. You don't need any of that crap, just swap carriers and that's it. If your rifle has a 4:00 ejection pattern with a standard weight M16 carrier it will most likely maintain that same 4:00 ejection pattern after swapping to the Titanium carrier. If it's a 3:00 ejection pattern it will most likely remain 3:00, ect.. If the rifle is over gassed to begin with it will remain over gassed by the same amount. What does the Titanium carrier do anyways? That's what really matters right. Well right off the bat it's a 4.5 ounce weight savings. Doesn't seem like a whole lot but for comparison that's nearly double the weight savings from a Government profile barrel to a lightweight profile barrel. Usually that shaves around 2 ounces off, well this carrier alone shaves 4.5 ounces off of your overall weight. It's a noticeable difference. Remove the heavy buffer from your rifle, that's how it will feel. But some people can deal with the weight, so what's it do for that guy? Well it's also 4.5 ounces less reciprocating mass in the rifle which is a HUGE difference!! It really is an incredible difference, recoil is literally non-existent. It's extremely smooth and extremely fast. You don't even feel the rifle cycling. The first time I even fired one I didn't think the rifle even cycled the next round, sure enough it did. I just didn't even feel it. It's that fast and that smooth. I was shocked. It made our standard M4 LE rifle feel like a competition rig! Throw this carrier in, throw on your favorite brake and go shoot 3 gun with the thing. You can still run adjustable gas systems and flat wire springs to squeeze even more performance out of it, but it's not required.
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Titanium BCG (Page 1 of 5)
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