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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Titanium BCG (Page 2 of 5)
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No it won't. You will still need to address that how ever you normally would, smaller gas port in the barrel, adjustable gas system, ect. Quoted:
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Do you believe this will compensate for a suppressor? No it won't. You will still need to address that how ever you normally would, smaller gas port in the barrel, adjustable gas system, ect. Okay. I'm really looking forward to this. Great work! 
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| How about the one from http://amalgamatedti.com/bcg.pdf ? Their BCG is 6.75 oz or 191 grams not as light as the one shown in the beginning of this thread but never the less the price is very reasonable. It looks like even the gas key is titanium too. I first read about them at www.thefirearmblog.com . I am not sure they are shipping yet. |
| Another thing I noticed when testing these Titanium carriers (that's definitely worth mentioning) is how much cooler they run, I didn't put a temp gun on it, but I was very surprised at the difference. I honestly didn't know they were going to run cooler like that, if anything I figured they would run a little hotter, but they actually run much cooler. We used the ST Compressor as our test bed because it generates so much heat so quickly shooting full auto suppressed with an 8.1" barrel. It's about as abusive as you can get, that rifle melted a lot of parts during early stages of development. That's why it's a great test bed, if it won't hold up to the Compressor then I have no use for it. We are also extremely familiar with the functionality of that rifle because we spent so much time with it. But yeah I was surprised, the Titanium is doing an amazing job of dissipating heat. Lower operating temps just mean longer life on the parts. Heat kills parts, eliminating as much heat as possible will definitely increase the life of the weapon. |
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Have you considered sleeving an Al carrier, and possibly some sort of coating or inserted rail for the bottom track that the hammer rides along? I personally think that the main problem with an aluminum carrier is going to be the cam pin slot and the hammer ramp on the bottom. I think it would destroy itself over time, I don't think they will hold up for very long even with hard anodized finish. Even 7075 aluminum is just to soft. It would basically be a throw away, even with the tool steel sleeve in it. I don't know if the carrier face would hold up either beating into the 8620 tool steel barrel extension over and over again. Honestly in this application I think aluminum is a very bad idea. They would be even lighter than Ti and much cheaper to produce though. |
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Also need to deiced what to do with my 3 gun rifle it currently has a JP Low mass ( 6.6oz ) And this one is coming in around 5oz and that boomfab was @ 4.7 But I want one with the M16 cut for my M16 I the cyclic rate with this lol cant wait.
Will you guys offer a pre order or anything? I had started a thread on LTW full auto rated carriers but it ended up getting archived some good info in it. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/628130_Lightest_BCG_also_what_ones_are_full_auto_rated_.html |
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Also need to deiced what to do with my 3 gun rifle it currently has a JP Low mass ( 6.6oz ) And this one is coming in around 5oz and that boomfab was @ 4.7 But I want one with the M16 cut for my M16 I the cyclic rate with this lol cant wait. Will you guys offer a pre order or anything? I had started a thread on LTW full auto rated carriers but it ended up getting archived some good info in it. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/628130_Lightest_BCG_also_what_ones_are_full_auto_rated_.html Thanks for the link. We will probably be taking preorders soon. |
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Here's a little more info about the Titanium carrier, but after this, there probably isn't much more I can tell you about it. We are in the middle of filing about 10 different patents right now. We've come up with some truly innovative products lately. In the past I've always said screw the patent crap but these really are good enough to protect. Plus I want some patents on my wall and I don't wanna see everyone else doing it. Anyways, the bore of the carrier has it's own Melonited and heat treated tool steel sleeve to greatly increase the durability of the carrier. It's a separate piece, it's installed using a properitarty process developed by John Mihovetz of Accufab Racing. Accufab developed this process for putting steel sleeves in aluminum race engine blocks that see well over 2500 HP. Their process is very sound and they have an extremely high success rate and years of experience which I why asked for their help on this project. It's nice having friends in the racing industry, it really helps strengthen the ST product line. Our resources allow us to make cutting edge products. The tool steel sleeves are ground and super precise, they are in place for life after being installed using Accufab's process. Titanium isn't really good with high temperature and high pressure, maybe one or the other, but not both combined. Which is why I choose to use tool steel in the areas where it will see hot pressurized gasses. As far as durability goes, the rest of the carrier is sound, the hard anodize and Teflon helped here big time. The surface hardness wasn't quite high enough with just RAW Titanium. I originally wanted to do them RAW so you could see the crazy oxidized discoloration that Titanium does when it gets hot, but it just wasn't durable enough in my opinion without any finish on the surface. Honestly it probably would have been fine for most users but I wanted to build something that would last forever, not a $300 throw away part. I personally couldn't justify spending this type of money on a part for it to eventually wear out and become useless. That's stupid and doesn't make sense unless your competing and need everything you can get. Not to mention with our Lifetime Warranty it would get expensive for us quickly to be replacing wore out parts. I needed it to be bullet proof and I definitely did my homework and testing on this design. I made some Titanium gas blocks a few years ago and in extreme conditions I noticed that they would erode pretty badly even being hard anodized. The hard anodize finish helped some but it just wasn't enough to fight off the hot pressurized gasses. That is what gave me the idea to use the sleeve inside the bore. If it wasn't for this sleeve idea working out I probably wouldn't have made a Titanium carrier at all. The erosion was a deal breaker for me. I already knew there would be no issues using the stainless gas rings on tool steel, but on Titanium that's a different story, who knows how long it would last before wear or galling. I try to stick to what works and what's proven, so I take that into consideration when I design something. I also like to maintain mil-spec compatibility every where I can because again it's proven and properitarty parts are a pain in the ass. Surprisingly to date I haven't seen any wear issues in the cam pin slot what so ever, even when they were RAW. At first I was concerned but it hasn't been an issue. What I meant by self tuning is this, you can take this carrier and drop in into an existing M4, 14.5" middy, 11.5", ect. and instantly have a huge increase in performance without the need of an adjustable gas system, a heavier buffer, or a heavier spring. You don't need any of that crap, just swap carriers and that's it. If your rifle has a 4:00 ejection pattern with a standard weight M16 carrier it will most likely maintain that same 4:00 ejection pattern after swapping to the Titanium carrier. If it's a 3:00 ejection pattern it will most likely remain 3:00, ect.. If the rifle is over gassed to begin with it will remain over gassed by the same amount. What does the Titanium carrier do anyways? That's what really matters right. Well right off the bat it's a 4.5 ounce weight savings. Doesn't seem like a whole lot but for comparison that's nearly double the weight savings from a Government profile barrel to a lightweight profile barrel. Usually that shaves around 2 ounces off, well this carrier alone shaves 4.5 ounces off of your overall weight. It's a noticeable difference. Remove the heavy buffer from your rifle, that's how it will feel. But some people can deal with the weight, so what's it do for that guy? Well it's also 4.5 ounces less reciprocating mass in the rifle which is a HUGE difference!! It really is an incredible difference, recoil is literally non-existent. It's extremely smooth and extremely fast. You don't even feel the rifle cycling. The first time I even fired one I didn't think the rifle even cycled the next round, sure enough it did. I just didn't even feel it. It's that fast and that smooth. I was shocked. It made our standard M4 LE rifle feel like a competition rig! Throw this carrier in, throw on your favorite brake and go shoot 3 gun with the thing. You can still run adjustable gas systems and flat wire springs to squeeze even more performance out of it, but it's not required. The amount of research and development you guys do is awesome, Spike's tactical is certainly one of the most, if not the most innovative company out there. You guys are certainly the quickest to bring bad ass products to market and one of the few that do it on a regular basis. Please make a forged M16 LPK and convince Battle Arms Development to make a 0-45-90 selector! |
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Thanks for the kind words! I actually made the hammer and trigger Forgings to M16 specs, we just machine those features off when we are machining everything else. That way one Forgong does both. Of course you did, that makes too much since 
Ok, while I'm dreaming how about a side charging upper with a FAL style charging handle 
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Of course you did, that makes too much since
Ok, while I'm dreaming how about a side charging upper with a FAL style charging handle Quoted:
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Thanks for the kind words! I actually made the hammer and trigger Forgings to M16 specs, we just machine those features off when we are machining everything else. That way one Forgong does both. Of course you did, that makes too much since
Ok, while I'm dreaming how about a side charging upper with a FAL style charging handle I think there are patents out there for side chargers. We would have to do a patent search. |
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Being a machinist for 15 years and a design engineer for many of them....all I am going to say...
RESPECT! Not too often we can say that in the manufacturing world to each other... 
Mike in MN Quoted:
Here's a little more info about the Titanium carrier, but after this, there probably isn't much more I can tell you about it. We are in the middle of filing about 10 different patents right now. We've come up with some truly innovative products lately. In the past I've always said screw the patent crap but these really are good enough to protect. Plus I want some patents on my wall and I don't wanna see everyone else doing it. Anyways, the bore of the carrier has it's own Melonited and heat treated tool steel sleeve to greatly increase the durability of the carrier. It's a separate piece, it's installed using a properitarty process developed by John Mihovetz of Accufab Racing. Accufab developed this process for putting steel sleeves in aluminum race engine blocks that see well over 2500 HP. Their process is very sound and they have an extremely high success rate and years of experience which I why asked for their help on this project. It's nice having friends in the racing industry, it really helps strengthen the ST product line. Our resources allow us to make cutting edge products. The tool steel sleeves are ground and super precise, they are in place for life after being installed using Accufab's process. Titanium isn't really good with high temperature and high pressure, maybe one or the other, but not both combined. Which is why I choose to use tool steel in the areas where it will see hot pressurized gasses. As far as durability goes, the rest of the carrier is sound, the hard anodize and Teflon helped here big time. The surface hardness wasn't quite high enough with just RAW Titanium. I originally wanted to do them RAW so you could see the crazy oxidized discoloration that Titanium does when it gets hot, but it just wasn't durable enough in my opinion without any finish on the surface. Honestly it probably would have been fine for most users but I wanted to build something that would last forever, not a $300 throw away part. I personally couldn't justify spending this type of money on a part for it to eventually wear out and become useless. That's stupid and doesn't make sense unless your competing and need everything you can get. Not to mention with our Lifetime Warranty it would get expensive for us quickly to be replacing wore out parts. I needed it to be bullet proof and I definitely did my homework and testing on this design. I made some Titanium gas blocks a few years ago and in extreme conditions I noticed that they would erode pretty badly even being hard anodized. The hard anodize finish helped some but it just wasn't enough to fight off the hot pressurized gasses. That is what gave me the idea to use the sleeve inside the bore. If it wasn't for this sleeve idea working out I probably wouldn't have made a Titanium carrier at all. The erosion was a deal breaker for me. I already knew there would be no issues using the stainless gas rings on tool steel, but on Titanium that's a different story, who knows how long it would last before wear or galling. I try to stick to what works and what's proven, so I take that into consideration when I design something. I also like to maintain mil-spec compatibility every where I can because again it's proven and properitarty parts are a pain in the ass. Surprisingly to date I haven't seen any wear issues in the cam pin slot what so ever, even when they were RAW. At first I was concerned but it hasn't been an issue. What I meant by self tuning is this, you can take this carrier and drop in into an existing M4, 14.5" middy, 11.5", ect. and instantly have a huge increase in performance without the need of an adjustable gas system, a heavier buffer, or a heavier spring. You don't need any of that crap, just swap carriers and that's it. If your rifle has a 4:00 ejection pattern with a standard weight M16 carrier it will most likely maintain that same 4:00 ejection pattern after swapping to the Titanium carrier. If it's a 3:00 ejection pattern it will most likely remain 3:00, ect.. If the rifle is over gassed to begin with it will remain over gassed by the same amount. What does the Titanium carrier do anyways? That's what really matters right. Well right off the bat it's a 4.5 ounce weight savings. Doesn't seem like a whole lot but for comparison that's nearly double the weight savings from a Government profile barrel to a lightweight profile barrel. Usually that shaves around 2 ounces off, well this carrier alone shaves 4.5 ounces off of your overall weight. It's a noticeable difference. Remove the heavy buffer from your rifle, that's how it will feel. But some people can deal with the weight, so what's it do for that guy? Well it's also 4.5 ounces less reciprocating mass in the rifle which is a HUGE difference!! It really is an incredible difference, recoil is literally non-existent. It's extremely smooth and extremely fast. You don't even feel the rifle cycling. The first time I even fired one I didn't think the rifle even cycled the next round, sure enough it did. I just didn't even feel it. It's that fast and that smooth. I was shocked. It made our standard M4 LE rifle feel like a competition rig! Throw this carrier in, throw on your favorite brake and go shoot 3 gun with the thing. You can still run adjustable gas systems and flat wire springs to squeeze even more performance out of it, but it's not required. |
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Tom, on the aluminum carriers I've used (Smith Enterprises) they develop "chatter" dents where the hammer rides under the carrier. Smith DID consider them throwaways. Did the cam slot wear? The tool steel sleeve could reinforce that. Tricky to do, I would guess, but possible. Based on that, and the hammer chatter, how many rounds till the carrier would be unserviceable, in your estimation? |
Who is your target market for these? Guys seeking to build the lightest rifle they can, and competition shooters looking to lighten the cyclic action for faster split times. Price in not really an object for these shooters. Do comp shooter's have forward assists on them? I know most folks who want the lightest rifle will opt for an upper with no forward assist. I have always wondered why carriers have FA notches for several inches down the side of the carrier. And in every thread about FA use, the vast majority that do use them, use it to complete the closure of the bolt. In that case, the bolt face is already against the breech, and at most, the carrier travel they need to accomplish is the length of the cam slot minus the diameter of the cam pin. If the bolt carrier is any farther than that out of battery, you have some obstruction in the chamber and you really don't want to jam the cartridge into the chamber. So what am I getting at? How many FA notches on the carrier does that represent? 5? 6? So where are the lightening holes covering where the rest of the notches are? You can lighten it further (3 holes?), and still retain sane FA use. Why stop there? Joining the dimples on the left side of the front half, widening the door catch relief cut, and removing material from the underside at the rear, thus leaving a full auto bridge would reduce the weight still further. Would any of those changes inhibit function or longevity? |
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how does having such a lightweight carrier not require an adjustable gas symptom or heavy buffer/spring? I can't see how this would not exhibit overgas type symptoms. Keep in mind, lightweight carriers predate adjustable gas systems by YEARS! I purchased my first aluminum carrier in around 1982. |
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Our new 6AL4V Titanium carrier has some awesome features which we are in the process of getting a patent on. So I can't say much right now, but with this new carrier you don't need to use an adjustable gas system, heavier buffer, or a heavier buffer spring, even with the reduced weight. Just drop it in place and start shooting. Also our carrier has a Tool Steel sleeve inside the bore for added durability. It's done the same exact way that steel sleeves are put into Aluminum race engine blocks. They are also Hard Anodized Grey and infused with Teflon for wear resistance. Here's the prototypes (made for our shooting team) these don't have the patented features shown. :-) <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/Intake/0E9F4D25-AFA1-44AB-BD38-78F7AC5239A6_zpsqhzw64p0.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/Intake/0E9F4D25-AFA1-44AB-BD38-78F7AC5239A6_zpsqhzw64p0.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/5F389912-9C1D-4C65-8B02-4CC676555BE4_zpsuyolvsyd.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/5F389912-9C1D-4C65-8B02-4CC676555BE4_zpsuyolvsyd.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/10CE2F10-5A53-4F6A-B109-FE05E8D60237_zpsyac19s6k.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/10CE2F10-5A53-4F6A-B109-FE05E8D60237_zpsyac19s6k.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/D38FC5F9-1A72-4322-9294-F91C97EC0CF5_zpsoqnl5iv0.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/D38FC5F9-1A72-4322-9294-F91C97EC0CF5_zpsoqnl5iv0.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/0309EDBB-BB2B-4314-800B-7F148F6FE4F2_zps3tgfbzwb.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/0309EDBB-BB2B-4314-800B-7F148F6FE4F2_zps3tgfbzwb.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/204004F8-C9A2-4B05-841D-A7A9A2074CAE_zpslgfrhsxu.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/204004F8-C9A2-4B05-841D-A7A9A2074CAE_zpslgfrhsxu.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/B6ACC48D-A976-4107-9199-D2F72DE5DD86_zpsbc46scvr.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/B6ACC48D-A976-4107-9199-D2F72DE5DD86_zpsbc46scvr.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/1FBD3C20-6683-4D9E-AF61-0C57EF24FE96_zps80wi9koo.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/1FBD3C20-6683-4D9E-AF61-0C57EF24FE96_zps80wi9koo.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/AB992B41-9473-4C6F-812E-E430D3EBB2FD_zpsrtjhutig.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/AB992B41-9473-4C6F-812E-E430D3EBB2FD_zpsrtjhutig.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/CC3C72BB-1216-4AD3-BA7A-635F10AEB780_zpsukgvtiii.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/CC3C72BB-1216-4AD3-BA7A-635F10AEB780_zpsukgvtiii.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/9178E091-C84B-47E8-B8A0-5409FBB4EC3F_zpstxgcsdhn.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/9178E091-C84B-47E8-B8A0-5409FBB4EC3F_zpstxgcsdhn.jpg</a> Christ, when I saw all these a little bit of jizz leaked out... lol, where's the sign up sheet? |
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These changes that you talk about in your new Ti BC, would it also allow me to accommodate a ultra-light buffer system as well? There is a .5 oz delrin buffer out there. Normally it is ran with lightened steel BCGs. Not knowing the magic behind your Ti BCG, curious if I could run it in combination with this super light buffer as well - perhaps using an adjustable gas block?
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I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. As for the carrier, it would make it lighter which would increase cycling rate and decrease dwell time. One could just buy a semi steel carrier and lighter buffer if decreased dwell is what you're looking for. Steel is stronger than Titanium. Titanium is stronger than Aluminum. Titanium is lighter than steel. It falls inbetween AL and Steel. |
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These changes that you talk about in your new Ti BC, would it also allow me to accommodate a ultra-light buffer system as well? There is a .5 oz delrin buffer out there. Normally it is ran with lightened steel BCGs. Not knowing the magic behind your Ti BCG, curious if I could run it in combination with this super light buffer as well - perhaps using an adjustable gas block? With a buffer that light you may need an adjustable gas block to reduce the gas. |
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Steel is stronger than Titanium. Titanium is stronger than Aluminum. Titanium is lighter than steel. It falls inbetween AL and Steel. Quoted:
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I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. As for the carrier, it would make it lighter which would increase cycling rate and decrease dwell time. One could just buy a semi steel carrier and lighter buffer if decreased dwell is what you're looking for. Steel is stronger than Titanium. Titanium is stronger than Aluminum. Titanium is lighter than steel. It falls inbetween AL and Steel. I'd never use Titanium for a bolt. |
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I'd never use Titanium for a bolt. Quoted:
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I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. As for the carrier, it would make it lighter which would increase cycling rate and decrease dwell time. One could just buy a semi steel carrier and lighter buffer if decreased dwell is what you're looking for. Steel is stronger than Titanium. Titanium is stronger than Aluminum. Titanium is lighter than steel. It falls inbetween AL and Steel. I'd never use Titanium for a bolt. You are a smart man. Each different material has differing properties for differing uses. Some excel at some and are lousy at others so choose wisely. Tools in the toolbox. |
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Does anyone know the weight of the old Colt half moon carrier? I ask because that is what's in my light weight build now and want to know if this Ti carrier will be worth it in weight savings. 8.8 oz. on my postal scale. Just the carrier. 
Assembled with a colt bolt. 10.9oz Spikes carrier is 5.008 oz. Quite a bit lighter than the old half circle colt carrier. 
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Seriously I cant wait for this BCG it what I have been looking for in a couple of my builds. Do you guys have any sort of ETA?
I actually have to send a barrel back to you guys ( spikes) got missed bagged  was supposed to be a 14.5 LTW profile ( that what the outside bag label even said) but the barrel inside was a 16inch I think M4 profile..
Anyways if you want to slip a BCG in my return box that would be fine with me.
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Steel is stronger than Titanium. Titanium is stronger than Aluminum. Titanium is lighter than steel. It falls inbetween AL and Steel. Quoted:
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I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. As for the carrier, it would make it lighter which would increase cycling rate and decrease dwell time. One could just buy a semi steel carrier and lighter buffer if decreased dwell is what you're looking for. Steel is stronger than Titanium. Titanium is stronger than Aluminum. Titanium is lighter than steel. It falls inbetween AL and Steel. Pound for pound titanium is much stronger than steel, that's why it's used in aerospace construction. |
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Does anyone know the weight of the old Colt half moon carrier? I ask because that is what's in my light weight build now and want to know if this Ti carrier will be worth it in weight savings. Could half moon the top instead of the bottom to retain FA compatibility. |
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I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. As for the carrier, it would make it lighter which would increase cycling rate and decrease dwell time. One could just buy a semi steel carrier and lighter buffer if decreased dwell is what you're looking for. Steel is stronger than Titanium. Titanium is stronger than Aluminum. Titanium is lighter than steel. It falls inbetween AL and Steel. Pound for pound titanium is much stronger than steel, that's why it's used in aerospace construction. "Pound for pound" aluminum is stronger than steel. If you had a 6x6 plate of steel that weighed 2 lbs and a 6x6 plate of aluminum that also weighed 2 lbs, the aluminum plate would be much thicker and therefore, "stronger." If you take an object with set dimensions and change the material from steel to aluminum, it is the opposite. You shed the weight and keep the dimensions. Therefore, a bolt carrier of the same dimensions and a lighter material weighs less, but is not as "strong." Since the forces in a bolt carrier are not in bending but directed through the carrier's length, this is fine. If you did a charpy impact test with the carrier vertical, it wouldn't fair so well. The main concern with going to different materials for things like the bolt carrier or bolt is galling or wearing in an unexpected manner. |
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I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. As for the carrier, it would make it lighter which would increase cycling rate and decrease dwell time. One could just buy a semi steel carrier and lighter buffer if decreased dwell is what you're looking for. Reducing the mass of the cycling bolt greatly reduces felt recoil, aiding in quick follow up shots. Very important when tenths of a second count in competitions such as 3gun. |
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Reducing the mass of the cycling bolt greatly reduces felt recoil, aiding in quick follow up shots. Very important when tenths of a second count in competitions such as 3gun. Quoted:
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I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. As for the carrier, it would make it lighter which would increase cycling rate and decrease dwell time. One could just buy a semi steel carrier and lighter buffer if decreased dwell is what you're looking for. Reducing the mass of the cycling bolt greatly reduces felt recoil, aiding in quick follow up shots. Very important when tenths of a second count in competitions such as 3gun. Paired with a adjustable gas block so you can tune it. |
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Paired with a adjustable gas block so you can tune it. Quoted:
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I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. As for the carrier, it would make it lighter which would increase cycling rate and decrease dwell time. One could just buy a semi steel carrier and lighter buffer if decreased dwell is what you're looking for. Reducing the mass of the cycling bolt greatly reduces felt recoil, aiding in quick follow up shots. Very important when tenths of a second count in competitions such as 3gun. Paired with a adjustable gas block so you can tune it. Better to just buy a gas port that is already the right size. |
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Pound for pound titanium is much stronger than steel, that's why it's used in aerospace construction. Quoted:
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I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. As for the carrier, it would make it lighter which would increase cycling rate and decrease dwell time. One could just buy a semi steel carrier and lighter buffer if decreased dwell is what you're looking for. Steel is stronger than Titanium. Titanium is stronger than Aluminum. Titanium is lighter than steel. It falls inbetween AL and Steel. Pound for pound titanium is much stronger than steel, that's why it's used in aerospace construction. It is used in Aerospace because it is more heat resistant than aluminum and still relatively light. Volume-wise, Steel is much stronger. |
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Here's a little more info about the Titanium carrier, but after this, there probably isn't much more I can tell you about it. We are in the middle of filing about 10 different patents right now. We've come up with some truly innovative products lately. In the past I've always said screw the patent crap but these really are good enough to protect. Plus I want some patents on my wall and I don't wanna see everyone else doing it. Anyways, the bore of the carrier has it's own Melonited and heat treated tool steel sleeve to greatly increase the durability of the carrier. It's a separate piece, it's installed using a properitarty process developed by John Mihovetz of Accufab Racing. Accufab developed this process for putting steel sleeves in aluminum race engine blocks that see well over 2500 HP. Their process is very sound and they have an extremely high success rate and years of experience which I why asked for their help on this project. It's nice having friends in the racing industry, it really helps strengthen the ST product line. Our resources allow us to make cutting edge products. The tool steel sleeves are ground and super precise, they are in place for life after being installed using Accufab's process. Titanium isn't really good with high temperature and high pressure, maybe one or the other, but not both combined. Which is why I choose to use tool steel in the areas where it will see hot pressurized gasses. As far as durability goes, the rest of the carrier is sound, the hard anodize and Teflon helped here big time. The surface hardness wasn't quite high enough with just RAW Titanium. I originally wanted to do them RAW so you could see the crazy oxidized discoloration that Titanium does when it gets hot, but it just wasn't durable enough in my opinion without any finish on the surface. Honestly it probably would have been fine for most users but I wanted to build something that would last forever, not a $300 throw away part. I personally couldn't justify spending this type of money on a part for it to eventually wear out and become useless. That's stupid and doesn't make sense unless your competing and need everything you can get. Not to mention with our Lifetime Warranty it would get expensive for us quickly to be replacing wore out parts. I needed it to be bullet proof and I definitely did my homework and testing on this design. I made some Titanium gas blocks a few years ago and in extreme conditions I noticed that they would erode pretty badly even being hard anodized. The hard anodize finish helped some but it just wasn't enough to fight off the hot pressurized gasses. That is what gave me the idea to use the sleeve inside the bore. If it wasn't for this sleeve idea working out I probably wouldn't have made a Titanium carrier at all. The erosion was a deal breaker for me. I already knew there would be no issues using the stainless gas rings on tool steel, but on Titanium that's a different story, who knows how long it would last before wear or galling. I try to stick to what works and what's proven, so I take that into consideration when I design something. I also like to maintain mil-spec compatibility every where I can because again it's proven and properitarty parts are a pain in the ass. Surprisingly to date I haven't seen any wear issues in the cam pin slot what so ever, even when they were RAW. At first I was concerned but it hasn't been an issue. What I meant by self tuning is this, you can take this carrier and drop in into an existing M4, 14.5" middy, 11.5", ect. and instantly have a huge increase in performance without the need of an adjustable gas system, a heavier buffer, or a heavier spring. You don't need any of that crap, just swap carriers and that's it. If your rifle has a 4:00 ejection pattern with a standard weight M16 carrier it will most likely maintain that same 4:00 ejection pattern after swapping to the Titanium carrier. If it's a 3:00 ejection pattern it will most likely remain 3:00, ect.. If the rifle is over gassed to begin with it will remain over gassed by the same amount. What does the Titanium carrier do anyways? That's what really matters right. Well right off the bat it's a 4.5 ounce weight savings. Doesn't seem like a whole lot but for comparison that's nearly double the weight savings from a Government profile barrel to a lightweight profile barrel. Usually that shaves around 2 ounces off, well this carrier alone shaves 4.5 ounces off of your overall weight. It's a noticeable difference. Remove the heavy buffer from your rifle, that's how it will feel. But some people can deal with the weight, so what's it do for that guy? Well it's also 4.5 ounces less reciprocating mass in the rifle which is a HUGE difference!! It really is an incredible difference, recoil is literally non-existent. It's extremely smooth and extremely fast. You don't even feel the rifle cycling. The first time I even fired one I didn't think the rifle even cycled the next round, sure enough it did. I just didn't even feel it. It's that fast and that smooth. I was shocked. It made our standard M4 LE rifle feel like a competition rig! Throw this carrier in, throw on your favorite brake and go shoot 3 gun with the thing. You can still run adjustable gas systems and flat wire springs to squeeze even more performance out of it, but it's not required. What are your thoughts on Inconel for a carrier or bolt? |
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The main concern with going to different materials for things like the bolt carrier or bolt is galling or wearing in an unexpected manner. Funny that the Titanium carrier I ran didn't gall or my Aluminum carrier after 30 years hasn't galled. At one time a stainless steel semi auto pistol was the Holy Grail, unobtainable. Even when AMT released the Hardballer 1911 you had to use special lubes to try and minimize galling. |
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Looks like this will be a real winner. I hope it isn't a part that is built in extremely limited supplies and everyone is left fighting over them.
The reduced reciprocating mass is a great benefit for keeping the barrel on target. My main plan is for my super lightweight build. Imagine this carrier coupled with a extremely lightweight barrel, magnesium upper and lower, Aimpoint T1, JP Silent Buffer and a BCM KMR13. This should push the rifle weight down to the low 5 pound range easily. |
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Better to just buy a gas port that is already the right size. Quoted:
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I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. As for the carrier, it would make it lighter which would increase cycling rate and decrease dwell time. One could just buy a semi steel carrier and lighter buffer if decreased dwell is what you're looking for. Reducing the mass of the cycling bolt greatly reduces felt recoil, aiding in quick follow up shots. Very important when tenths of a second count in competitions such as 3gun. Paired with a adjustable gas block so you can tune it. Better to just buy a gas port that is already the right size. It'd be a thing to see a company sell barrels with no port in it, but I can see that causing more of a problem than solving one. |
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It'd be a thing to see a company sell barrels with no port in it, but I can see that causing more of a problem than solving one. Quoted:
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I would imagine titanium would benifet a bolt more than carrier since titanium should be a stronger steel than C-158. As for the carrier, it would make it lighter which would increase cycling rate and decrease dwell time. One could just buy a semi steel carrier and lighter buffer if decreased dwell is what you're looking for. Reducing the mass of the cycling bolt greatly reduces felt recoil, aiding in quick follow up shots. Very important when tenths of a second count in competitions such as 3gun. Paired with a adjustable gas block so you can tune it. Better to just buy a gas port that is already the right size. It'd be a thing to see a company sell barrels with no port in it, but I can see that causing more of a problem than solving one. Probably half of them would be returned for warranty, the others just wouldn't be fired. |
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How about a drill your own low pro gas block?
Baby Govnah I thought this was one hell of an idea. |
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How about a drill your own low pro gas block? Baby Govnah I thought this was one hell of an idea. Hey, there ya go. 
I drilled one of my gas blocks for a set screw and then drilled the set screw out in kind of the same way. Like a jet in a carbeurator. |
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Looks like this will be a real winner. I hope it isn't a part that is built in extremely limited supplies and everyone is left fighting over them. The reduced reciprocating mass is a great benefit for keeping the barrel on target. My main plan is for my super lightweight build. Imagine this carrier coupled with a extremely lightweight barrel, magnesium upper and lower, Aimpoint T1, JP Silent Buffer and a BCM KMR13. This should push the rifle weight down to the low 5 pound range easily. My goal is to offer a 14.5" middy rifle on our new billet receivers, that's under 6lbs. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Titanium BCG (Page 2 of 5)
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