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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Which one? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/31/2015 1:19:20 PM EDT
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I'm sure this (or similar has been asked before)
i am looking to buy (new) an AR. Currenty I have it narrowed down to either the S&W MP15 sport, and the Bush XM15-E2s. Both are around the same price ($600) The Smith doesn't have the forward assist or dust cover, the bush does, and comes with a red-dot. That part I know.....but what would make me pick one over teh other? |
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in the years that i used the M16A2, I never once actually needed the forward assist, so I dont really care one way or the other about that.
The smith comes with iron sites, while the bush just has the front post and dot. The dot is nice, but if it sucks, then its a waste. And I do have a problem with over thinking purchases and what not, hence why I am here. |
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Better option for less money.
Build one.... PSA Freedom Stainless Kit 419 and PSA "Blem" Lower |
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Buy which ever one you like. It is going to be your AR and no one else's. Excellent advice. I have a large selection of firearms so am well covered for SHTF or the Zombie wars. I wanted an AR for hobby/sport shooting so I went against the grain and bought a DPMS Sportical 3 years ago. Been totally impressed with it for that purpose. Shot it steadily for 3 years without a glitch. Don't need the dust cover and wouldn't use the FA anyway. Get what YOU like and you will be GTG. |
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I will 3rd the advice on going with the PSA one above. Better quality, and don't freak out when you hear the word build. The only thing that is left to do in that kit above is put the small parts in the lower receiver and then you can piece it together and shoot it. For your first time it will probably take maybe 45 mins if your a slow learner, 20-30 mins if not. PSA makes a few other rifle kits that are good deals to.
But either way between the 2 you posted I would for sure go with the bushmaster. If they cut corners on the upper receiver so that it doesn't have a forward assist or dust cover then it is hard to tell what other corners are cut with the parts that really do matter. I know the chances of ever needing a forward assist are slim and that is why I have a few A1 smooth sided uppers that I like very well. But the dust cover is a small advantage for keeping crap out of the rifle when not in use. As a range rifle it won't ever matter, but for anything else you will be glad you have it. And really to me the most important thing would be how it looks, I just can't stand the ARs without dust covers they just look so cheap like a .22lr copy or something. Everyone has different tastes so that may not be the case for you. Either way for the same money I would still buy the Bushmaster even if the red dot is junk, a rear sight won't cost you very much money at all. And if you ever decide to sell the rifle it will hold more value then the Smith due to having a milspec receiver. Edited to add - with the PSA or some other build kit you can have the advantage of a mid-length gas system over the carbines the already put together ones would have. A mid-length gas system is just that, it is between a carbine and rifle, so the handguards are a couple inches longer with the gas block/front sight being out a couple more inches as well. This is nice for a couple reasons, one it will shoot much softer then the carbine does. And the thing that I really love about mid-lengths is the extra sight radius. If you are using iron sights it is a nice advantage to have a couple more inches between your front and rear sight. Plus they just look better on the 16" guns, more natural looking instead of a long bare barrel after the front sight like on the carbine. Also the PSA build kits would have a 1/7 twist barrel which would let you shoot the heavier 75-77 grain ammo that the 1/9 from the others probably wouldn't if that ever mattered to you. Not sure what prices you would be getting on the Bushy or Smith, but there are just so many other good options out there. Right now is the time to buy ARs or build them. The parts are more abundant then ever and at an all time low. Hard to tell where we will be next year, but hopefully about the same situation. |
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A couple more good options to look at from PSA. And also it is best to stick with their Freedom line or Premium line. Their P-tac line isn't the same qualtiy. But by getting a rifle kit from PSA and a lower then you would probably have a rifle that is even cheaper then the ones you can buy, plus a better quality.
This one is even $20 cheaper then the SS barrel one linked above - $400 http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-5-56-nato-1-7-socom-melonite-freedom-rifle-kit.html If you don't care to spend a little more then get one of their Premium kits like this one. And also this has the MOE stock and handguard which is a $50-60 value and much nicer then the stock style in my opinion. But not only that, their Premium line is on par with some of the higher dollar companies and is about the best bang for the buck out there. $489 http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-premium-5-56-nato-1-7-a2-profile-moe-rifle-kit.html Here is a Freedom line one like the first one that is $400 but for an extra $50 that has the Magpul MOE handguard and stock. http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-moe-freedom-rifle-kit.html And all you need to complete these kits is a stripped lower like this for $50 http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/10446/ So all together if you go with the cheapest kit here for $400, and get a $50 lower then the total cost of the whole rifle is only $450 and it is still a better quality then the other 2 already put together. But if you want to pay a little more for the Premium kit then it would still only be $540 all together and be on par with some of the $800-1000 rifles out there. I would pay the difference and get the Premium kit for $489 if it was me, it is worth the difference if it is your only AR and you want to keep it for your lifetime and rely on it for any type of defense situation. And to top it off, this one is still cheaper then either of the 2 you would have bought already together but a much higher quality, with a mid-length gas system, plus the MOE stock/handguard. If you don't want to have to put anything together at all, but just pin it and shoot it then you could piece it together from a couple other parts. Like buy this upper for $220 http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-phosphate-moe-blk-freedom-upper-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.html Then this BCG for $100 , usually there is one there without a logo for $80 but it is sold out today. http://palmettostatearmory.com/palmetto-state-armory-5-56-premium-full-auto-bolt-carrier-group-8779.html Charging handle - $20 http://palmettostatearmory.com/palmetto-state-amory-charging-handle-with-tactical-release-latch.html And a lower already put together - $140 http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/14434/ or Magpul MOE one for $180 http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/15072/ That would make it $480-520 depending which lower you went with. This would be the same thing as the rifle kit, but a few more dollars since the lower is already put together. But the good thing about this one is if you are scared to build anything, this doesn't involve anything like that. This is as simple as putting it together - just the same as if you were to clean your rifle. About 15 seconds and you could have it together. |
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Are you feeling okay?  Quoted:
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Why not just save up a little more and buy a Colt 6920? They own the TDP. I heard you can buy one without its furniture for just $200 more than your budget. Are you feeling okay? We were 11 responses in, and no one said it yet. I didn't want the forum to implode. |
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LOL. I figured I do something nice for the fanboys before 2016 kicks in. Quoted:
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You took one for the team. Happy New Year, brother, LOL. I figured I do something nice for the fanboys before 2016 kicks in. I swear to God you need a blog. I will happily subscribe. Lol.  
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If I were to save up anymore and buy a rifle already put together it would be something like a Spikes, that is high quality but cheaper then Colt etc.
But if you are planning to go the first route and put the lower pieces in yourself then you have a lot more options at the moment. The thing is if you are wanting to order any particular deal there, you should do it soon. PSA sells out of stuff all the time, and new deals or uppers come along. I am sure there will always be something similar, but the in and out of stock thing happens quite frequently. I would go with the Premium upper kit for $489 - it is the best deal for a quality AR in my opinion, and is still cheaper then the S&W or Bushy. The premium upper will not only have a better barrel, but probably a better Bolt Carrier Group, and buffer tube/buffer and lower parts kit. The 2 most important things though are the fact that the Premium kits have good barrels on them that are very reliable, and Bolt carrier groups that are known for their quality on a budget. If it was more of a price difference I would say maybe think about the Freedom line, but since you have it in your budget to get the Premium I would go for it. It basically pays for itself with the Magpul MOE stock/grip etc. The Magpul stockset is easily worth $60 or more, and easily costs another $40 or so over the standard stock set. You will really like how they feel too, I put them on any modern type build I do. All together the extra $89 for the Premium kit is well worth it when you add up each individual part that is better. Also if you go with the Premium, you have a rifle that will be on par to some of the higher priced ones out there like Spikes, or even very similar to the regular BCM line. I would not be afraid to take a Premium PSA kit into harms way if need be so that should tell you something. But I would be afraid to take their Ptac line into harms way before it proved itself to me, so I would not go with that one. But their Freedom line is probably a good option too, just not on the same quality as the Premium. The Premium is basically mil-spec parts. I have a Freedom line SS barrel, so I am not biased in anyway I am just giving it to you straight. The Premium is worth it if you have the money to spend. The only way the cheaper ones are really worth it is if you already have multiple ARs that are higher quality, or someone that is saving every penny and can't afford the extra few dollars for the Premium line because it would take them a few extra months of saving etc. If you read reviews on PSA on the forums they are a very popular company, and for good reason. They are one of the cheapest places out there for parts that are reliable enough to trust. But out of the many reviews you will find a few bad ones, but the bad ones are always from their cheaper lines like the P-tac. I haven't heard much bad about the Freedom series, so if you do go with it to save a few dollars you will still be getting a nice rifle. But I don't think I have ever read a bad review on the Premium line, just many praises from others and myself included. I have seen quite a few in person from friends etc, and have some parts myself from their premium line. I am not a PSA fanboy either, I generally go with other companies parts because I piece together everything that I like instead of buying a whole kit already put together. But if I were to buy a whole kit like that then I would probably almost always use PSA. |
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Why not just save up a little more and buy a Colt 6920? They own the TDP. I heard you can buy one without its furniture for just $200 more than your budget. I was wondering how long it would take to get this response. I was telling my wife about this thread today and telling here that it would be a matter of time before someone came along and told the OP to save up and buy a Colt. These threads are so predictable. |
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I was wondering how long it would take to get this response. I was telling my wife about this thread today and telling here that it would be a matter of time before someone came along and told the OP to save up and buy a Colt. These threads are so predictable. Quoted:
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Why not just save up a little more and buy a Colt 6920? They own the TDP. I heard you can buy one without its furniture for just $200 more than your budget. I was wondering how long it would take to get this response. I was telling my wife about this thread today and telling here that it would be a matter of time before someone came along and told the OP to save up and buy a Colt. These threads are so predictable. I was joking, but I'm pretty sure Lionhart is serious. |
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Every Question and Answer on a Gun Forum
I love this video. OP, the PSA is a great option, lowers are not all that hard to put together, plenty of videos and a step by step set of instructions on this site, Link to Build It Yourself. As far as which PSA you might think is right for you, just depends on what you want. Have you handled any of the rifles you have already thought about? Pull up their specs and compare them to the PSA Uppers. ETA: fix link, not smart enough to embed video. |
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I was joking, but I'm pretty sure Lionhart is serious. Quoted:
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Why not just save up a little more and buy a Colt 6920? They own the TDP. I heard you can buy one without its furniture for just $200 more than your budget. I was wondering how long it would take to get this response. I was telling my wife about this thread today and telling here that it would be a matter of time before someone came along and told the OP to save up and buy a Colt. These threads are so predictable. I was joking, but I'm pretty sure Lionhart is serious. Always 
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I don't think most people like paying for a Colt, when they can get the same performance for much less I do like Colt parts, but don't like paying a premium for the parts that make no difference if they say Colt or not. For someone not on a budget and has plenty of money, Colt is for sure a good choice if you just want something you can buy and not have to research and see if it is a good rifle. Same goes for BCM, and DD and many others though.
The sad thing is the OP sent me a PM asking what one I would pick, and it was hard for me to find one right now because almost everything I linked up just a couple hours ago is either sold out right now, or has changed its price. Earlier the Premium rifle kit with MOE stock set for $489 was the best deal by far if you wanted a quality rifle. Now it would be a toss up on the $520 premium kit with regular stockset or $450 for Freedom SS kit with MOE stockset. I would still always pick the Premium one if I had the extra money. From what I have seen stuff at PSA goes in and out of stock every day, so there is a good chance if he waits around and looks for the next couple days he will be able to get the Premium kit a little cheaper then it is now if he keeps an eye on what is in and out of stock and jumps on it when it comes back in. I think it is best to probably have the rifle kit shipped to his door, and have the lower shipped separately to the gunshop unless the gunshop already has their license on file with PSA and is OK with him making the order out and then possibly they could call the gunshop to confirm. Not for sure how to go about that one. But if he has to wait around and give a list of what he wants to the gunshop to order, by the time they order whatever it was that he wanted would probably be out of stock or at a different price by then is my guess. For anyone that has more experience with ordering lowers and parts from PSA feel free to chime in and help our OP out here. I think he is very interested in going the PSA route to save a few dollars and get a better quality rifle while he is at it. |
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My experience with PSA is that they have never sold me anything out of stock, but once you do order it's not as fast as say BCM. I'm sure they're catching up from Blackfriday and Christmas, so hopefully they should have some new stuff back in soon. If I wanted something from them I would be sure to sign up for notifications. Those seem to work as I get them when ammo comes back in stock.
I would also tell him to kill time, maybe jump on the lower, that way he is ready to roll once either the upper or kit is back in stock. Get the serialized part because that will be the hassle with trying to find an FFL to ship to and forward on their information. It's easy if you've done it before, but if not, it could take a little time trying to decide who they might want to use. |
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My experience with PSA is that they have never sold me anything out of stock, but once you do order it's not as fast as say BCM. I'm sure they're catching up from Blackfriday and Christmas, so hopefully they should have some new stuff back in soon. If I wanted something from them I would be sure to sign up for notifications. Those seem to work as I get them when ammo comes back in stock. I would also tell him to kill time, maybe jump on the lower, that way he is ready to roll once either the upper or kit is back in stock. Get the serialized part because that will be the hassle with trying to find an FFL to ship to and forward on their information. It's easy if you've done it before, but if not, it could take a little time trying to decide who they might want to use. A fella on another forum just ordered a complete PSA MOE (blem) lower and had it within a week after ordering. Upper may take a little bit. As you said, they are recovering from the holiday sales. |
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ok, So here is what I am thinking to get..... http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-5-56-nato-1-7-socom-melonite-freedom-rifle-kit.html and http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/10445/ Anything else? You will need a rear sight. MAGPUL MBUS You can always add some sort of optic later on if you like. |
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ok, So here is what I am thinking to get..... http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-5-56-nato-1-7-socom-melonite-freedom-rifle-kit.html and http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/10445/ Anything else? Shotine this morning and it was flawlwss. I have the magpul sight on mine as well. |
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Cant imagine it would be that much difference? how about http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-5-56-nato-1-7-stainless-steel-moe-freedom-rifle-kit.html For $100 more you can get the premium kit with an FN made chrome lined barrel. Add a $50 lower and you're under $600 for a nice AR, much better than either choice in your OP. http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-1-7-premium-rifle-kit.html |
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Ok.....so why is that one better? Not trying to be an ass, its just that I honestly want to know what makes one setup better than the other. Chrome lineds barrels have a higher resistance to heat than non chrome lined, and a higher erosion resistance, and are easier to clean. It will last longer in hard use scenarios that generally do not exist in a majority of civilian applications. |
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Chrome lineds barrels have a higher resistance to heat than non chrome lined, and a higher erosion resistance, and are easier to clean. It will last longer in hard use scenarios that generally do not exist in a majority of civilian applications. Quoted:
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Ok.....so why is that one better? Not trying to be an ass, its just that I honestly want to know what makes one setup better than the other. Chrome lineds barrels have a higher resistance to heat than non chrome lined, and a higher erosion resistance, and are easier to clean. It will last longer in hard use scenarios that generally do not exist in a majority of civilian applications. The barrel is also made by FN which are known for making quality barrels. The kit also include the premium BCG and LPK, but the barrel alone is worth $100 extra IMO. |
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arrrrrgggggghhhhh and just when I was likning the Magpol handguards too. ok, this one says it has the chrome moly barrel http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-moe-freedom-rifle-kit.html I have that upper with the carbine length gas system. It will work fine, but the FN barrel (on PSA Premium and CHF) is worth the money if you want something a little nicer, and comparable with Colt at a lower cost. |
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Quoted: arrrrrgggggghhhhh
and just when I was likning the Magpol handguards too. ok, this one says it has the chrome moly barrel http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-moe-freedom-rifle-kit.html No need for a chrome lined bbl. The military specifies it b/c they expect their bbls to last 10s of thousands of rounds. It's a $100 consumable. Shoot it. If you shoot it enough to wear it out, you have many times the cost of a new bbl in ammo. |
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arrrrrgggggghhhhh and just when I was likning the Magpol handguards too. ok, this one says it has the chrome moly barrel http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-moe-freedom-rifle-kit.html Chrome moly is not the same as chrome lined. Chrome moly is just the standard type of steel barrels are made of. A chrome lined barrel is a standard chrome moly barrel that has had the bore and chamber plated with chromium. If you look at the deets on that upper, it says "Chrome lining: No." The main purposes behind chrome lining are extended barrel life, increased feeding reliability with a fouled chamber, corrosion resistance, and ease of cleaning. Melonite/nitride does the same thing as chrome lining, but is a cheaper process and is easier to maintain high tolerances/accuracy with. The melonite treatment on that SOCOM kit you listed is equivalent to chrome lining. However, the FN barrel will be 4150 chrome moly steel, whereas on the cheaper ones where they don't list the grade of steel, they are going to be 4140 (softer and weaker). A plain unlined/untreated 4140 barrel, like that phosphate kit has, will have the shortest life expectancy of any barrel type. Melonite/nitride treatment, like that SOCOM kit has, will negate this. Either way, as others have said, barrels are cheap. The cost of the ammo it takes to shoot out even a cheap unlined 4140 barrel makes the cost of the barrel pale in comparison. The main reason I favor chrome or melonite/nitride is increased feeding reliability under adverse conditions. How much difference this actually makes is hard to say. I mainly look for lined/treated 4150 barrels for peace of mind and because it is a standard that is heavily tested and proven. These concerns really only apply if you want the rifle for serious use. If it's just going to be a range toy, you don't need to agonize over stuff like this. Hell, even in a Second Amendment type role, i.e. watering the old tree of liberty, it seems to me you're approaching it all wrong if you plan on engaging in many all-out gun battles with the domestic enemies' goons. I think most any AR, even the cheap ones people on here love to rag on, will do most of the work an actual Second Amendment situation would call for just fine, going about things in a smart insurgency-type approach. Stuff like lining, grade of barrel steel, testing, etc. are mostly for peace of mind. |
| I do thank all of you for your help and responses. It has been a real education for me on the various parts and pieces. There are a few of the uppers that I am leaning towrds and once I have the funds, I will move forward. So right now, i am going to see where I can get the lower delivered to, at least that part is easy lol |
| The new M&P Sport II has a chrome lined barrel, forward assist, and dust cover. I've seen them around $600. If you decide to go with PSA might want to wait until they actually get some stuff back in stock. They did have complete lowers with Magpul or Sopmod grips and stocks for $150-$200 and complete uppers with FN barrels and BCG for $350-$420, including some CHF barrels. Out of what they have in stock now I'd get this http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-1-7-premium-rifle-kit.html and a stripped lower of your choice. |
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Agreed with the post above! If you are not in a huge hurry, just wait around and wait for what you want to come in stock. The Premium kit is way worth it. You were going to spend at least $600 on a Bushmaster or S&W to start with, so why not go ahead and spend that or about that same price and have something of a lot better quality? Instead of going with the slightly lower priced kits. If you didn't have the money to get anything but the cheaper one, then I would understand. But it really isn't that much extra money and you will have a rifle that is as reliable as any high dollar one out there if you go with the Premium kit.
And I like the Magpul MOE stocks too. But you can always sell whatever one comes with your rifle kit, and buy a new set. You can sell your existing stockset for probably around $40 or so, and can buy a Magpul MOE stockset for probably around $65-70ish or so. IF you do decide to go with the cheaper Freedom series then my advice would be this - Do NOT get the non lined regular barrels since the Melonited/Nitrited and SS barrels are the same price. I would get the one you linked with the Socom barrel that is Melonited if you didn't care about the heavier weight. But I hate the extra weight myself, and any weight that can be saved is nice. So I would probably get one of the Stainless Steel (SS) barrels if I were to get the Freedom series. I actually have a barrel from their Freedom series, and while I haven't gotten the chance to test it out very much yet it seems to be a decent shooter, and decent quality. With that said, the only reason I picked it up is because I got the barrel very cheap here in the EE and needed one to finish a build I had laying around. But it is not the only barrel or AR upper I have. Some people say that you don't need chrome lining, and they are right. You don't necessarily need it, but at the same time you don't necessarily need the fastest car to win a race either but it is nice to have. The main reason the chrome lining is nice is because of the added reliability it gives the weapon when it is needed the most. The barrel will also last much longer being lined, so if you shoot a lot it makes it worth it just for that. But the biggest thing is having the chamber lined so that it helps with the rifle functioning properly. Some people act like it isn't worth it because you can just go buy a new barrel after you shoot that one out - and while this is true I don't think they calculate in that the chrome lining doesn't cost that much extra to start with. So a barrel that is say $100 but lasts only half as long as a chrome lined barrel that is $135, will need replaced twice as often so actually end up costing more then the chrome lined one does if you plan on shooting it over a longer period of time. If chrome lining was some sort of rare thing and costed another $100 or so then maybe it wouldn't be worth it to most people. But it isn't rare, nor expensive. And as the other poster said above the Melonited/Nitrated/QPQ etc are all the same thing and are just as nice if not nicer then chrome lining, and are generally cheaper. Once you get everything figured out and have the money in hand, keep an eye on their rifle kits at PSA until the one you want pops up. You will be able to find a Premium kit that you like, and stays under the price that the S&W would have been. Heck they have one now at the $520 price, but I think you can do a little better by waiting it out until another comes in stock. When I posted my first reply back on page 1, they had the Premium kit with Magpul MOE stockset for $489. |
| Yes, I think I will get a premium kit, but I will just need to check the site daily until I see one at the price I want. Once I find a FFL holder that I can have the lower sent to, I will get that as soon as I can. That way I will be all set and ready for when the upper is avail. |
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i got a lower yesterday from a local dealer....$89 out the door. i figured had I gotten one from PSA, it would have cost more. $35 transfer and background check, plus the $50 for teh PSA lower, that makes it $85 right there + shipping.....
but anyway.....now the inventory for the rifles kits are empty....... friggen obama...lol |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Which one? (Page 1 of 2)
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