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Posted: 3/26/2006 12:38:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 12:38:43 AM EDT by Variablebinary]
I have a $1000 line of credit at my dealer (That isnt the entire budget) and I'm going to put it all toward a precision AR15 of some kind. I just need visual aids for ideas, so post em if you got em please and list the specs

Parts I've decided to use thus far:

Vltor Carbine/collapsible clubfoot Modstock, or Magpul Precision Rifle Stock
Magpul MIAD

Everything else is up for grabs.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:40:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:56:31 AM EDT
Look in the Indutsry forum under some of the company threads pictures galore there.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:58:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 5:10:34 AM EDT by Timanator]
Grendel GCS 20"

From:
www.competitionshooting.com/

10.5 lbs with scope.
1.1 - 1.3" groups at 200 yards all day.
Sub MOA tested all the way past 600 yards.



Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:03:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:37:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:47:10 AM EDT
Here's my Recce'ish build:

Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:55:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 7:04:41 AM EDT by Lawman734]
Here's my Mk12 Mod0 SPR



-LMT M4 upper
-Douglas Premium 1:7 twist barrel, contoured and chambered by Compass Lake
-PRI Flip Up front sight w/ MI rail mounted sling stud
-Ops Inc brake and collar
-ARMS rail
-ARMS #40 flip up rear sight
-ARMS #22 medium rings
-Leupold VariXIII 3.5-10 w/ M3 knobs
-old PWA lower (A1 style, since he original SPR's were built using old M16A1's)
-KAC 2 stage trigger
-A1 stock w/ KNS precision sling stud
-TPS Quick Cuff sling
-Sierra Precision SPR grip
-Harris Swivel bipod w/ Pod Loc mounted w/ a KAC bipod mount
Here's my SAM/R, it'll be back this week with a GG&G flip up front sight, since it's about the closest looking to the KAC sight.



-LMT M4 Upper
-KAC rifle length FF RAS
-Krieger SAM/R barrel chambered and contoured by Compass Lake (1:7 twist)
-A2 flash suppressor-hand tightened
-GG&G Flip Up front sight/gas block
-ARMS #22H rings
-KAC 600m flip up rear sight
-Leupold MR/T 3-9x36 (illuminated)
-Harris Swivel Bipod w/ Pod Loc mounted with ARMS bipod mount
-KNS rear sling stud/MI rail mounted sling stud w/ Tactical Intervention Quick Cuff sling
-Norgon Ambi-Catch
-RRA lower w/ KAC 2 stage trigger
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 7:31:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 8:37:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lawman734:
Here's my Mk12 Mod0 SPR

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/Lawdog734/000_0080.jpg

-LMT M4 upper
-Douglas Premium 1:7 twist barrel, contoured and chambered by Compass Lake
-PRI Flip Up front sight w/ MI rail mounted sling stud
-Ops Inc brake and collar
-ARMS rail
-ARMS #40 flip up rear sight
-ARMS #22 medium rings
-Leupold VariXIII 3.5-10 w/ M3 knobs
-old PWA lower (A1 style, since he original SPR's were built using old M16A1's)
-KAC 2 stage trigger
-A1 stock w/ KNS precision sling stud
-TPS Quick Cuff sling
-Sierra Precision SPR grip
-Harris Swivel bipod w/ Pod Loc mounted w/ a KAC bipod mount
Here's my SAM/R, it'll be back this week with a GG&G flip up front sight, since it's about the closest looking to the KAC sight.

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/Lawdog734/000_0081.jpg

-LMT M4 Upper
-KAC rifle length FF RAS
-Krieger SAM/R barrel chambered and contoured by Compass Lake (1:7 twist)
-A2 flash suppressor-hand tightened
-GG&G Flip Up front sight/gas block
-ARMS #22H rings
-KAC 600m flip up rear sight
-Leupold MR/T 3-9x36 (illuminated)
-Harris Swivel Bipod w/ Pod Loc mounted with ARMS bipod mount
-KNS rear sling stud/MI rail mounted sling stud w/ Tactical Intervention Quick Cuff sling
-Norgon Ambi-Catch
-RRA lower w/ KAC 2 stage trigger



I've always liked the look of the SPR but it is by far the most expensive congifuration when I priced it out.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 9:02:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
I've always liked the look of the SPR but it is by far the most expensive congifuration when I priced it out.



No doubt about that!

However, this Krieger barreled SPR type rifle shoots very accurately, day (MR/T 3-9 M3 TMR) and night (D-760 6X Gen III).



Link Posted: 3/26/2006 9:13:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 9:36:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
I've always liked the look of the SPR but it is by far the most expensive congifuration when I priced it out.



Like Edwin, I totally agree with your statement. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the SPR (specifically the Mod0) is so unique looking. There really isn't much you can do to get the look of a Mod0 without having a Mod0-anything else is just a precision AR (nothing wrong with that). The parts to make a Mod0 are expensive and there isn't really anything out there that looks close for less money.
On the other hand, with a SAM/R, Army DMR, or Mk12 Mod1 you can get pretty damned close to it by substituting certain parts, save money and still have the look. For instance, instead of using the DD forend of the Army DMR or the KAC FF RAS of the Mod1 or SAM/R-you could use a Yankee Hill FF railed tube and easily save $150-$200. The rifle would be close enough to look like the real thing but save you money. For instance, here's a parts list for a SAM/R upper on a budget.

SAM/R on a budget

-RRA 20" NM barrel vs. Krieger SAM/R barrel $250vs. $450-$500 (depending on options)
The RRA barrels with their Wylde chambers and 1:8 twist that I have seen have been accurate as hell.
-Yankee Hill FF Railed tube vs. DD/KAC FF Tube $140vs. $285-$300+
-Yankee Hill flip up front sight/gas block vs. GG&G (the closest looking to the unavailable KAC sight) $90vs. $180
-complete flat top upper $90
-gas tube,pin,A2 flash suppressor $25


Look at the totals-$595 for the budget SAM/R vs. $1030 for the real thing (using the low figures). By substituting a few parts, you can easily turn a SAM/R into a Mk12 Mod1 and still be in the $600 range.

Link Posted: 3/26/2006 9:41:37 AM EDT
Damn--- Lawman that Mk12 Mod0 SPR totally rocks--- just what I want. Time to break the piggy bank and build. Then I'll have 3 of these black babies. Why did I have to find this site.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 9:45:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildTurkey:
Damn--- Lawman that Mk12 Mod0 SPR totally rocks--- just what I want. Time to break the piggy bank and build. Then I'll have 3 of these black babies. Why did I have to find this site.



Thanks, the pic isn't nearly as good as Edwin's but they are essentially the same. I use mine out to 700yds and my SAM/R out to 1000yds w/ 90grn. SMK's.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 10:09:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lawman734:

Thanks, the pic isn't nearly as good as Edwin's but they are essentially the same. I use mine out to 700yds and my SAM/R out to 1000yds w/ 90grn. SMK's.



Lawman, in contrast to me, you have built a very accurate representation of the SPR Mk12 Mod0, mine was designed from the outset for use with NV equipment hence the Vortex and now the PRS stock along with the very desireable ARMS rail.
An LMT Defender 2000 lower, KAC 2-stage trigger, ambi mag & safety, now a ARMS 40L SP rear sight (so I could move the MR/T back for proper eye relif with the PRS stock), go with the CMT upper & Krieger SPR profile1/7 barrel and the other obvious parts.

I've got an OPS brake and collar, but it's unlikely I'll get an OPS suppressor so I'm sticking with the Vortex (at least for now).
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 10:15:30 AM EDT
Edwin, where in Ga are you located?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 11:31:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 11:45:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 12:07:32 PM EDT by chapperjoe]
I dunno about a grand. unless you put it together yourself.
But if you want precision for those parts, I'd have someone professional put it together.
that's what I did. Mine was done by ameetec with almost all off hte shelf parts except for the barrel which was a precision prototype.
Came out to about 1600$ with optic.
You could probably lop off some bucks by skipping the buis and just using high rings without the QD riser. but a grand??? I dunno

specs:
18 inch 1:8 fluted barrel midlegnth gas system with PRI low gas block
Vortex FH
Samson HG
Ameetec Upper and Lower
Ameetec Chrome Bolt Group
RRA Match Two Stage trigger
Magpul Trigger guard
SPR grip
Vltor A1 clubfoot stock with SOG pad Magpul PRS
dpms mangonel front and troy rear BUIS
Super Sniper 10x in QRW rings on a larue 5/8" QD riser base
Harris bipod on yhm base.

NOT included in price:
10 colt 10 round mags
400 rounds of mk262
200 rounds of BH 75 Gr BTHP
200 rounds of BH 77 Gr BTHP
400 rounds of BH 68 Gr BTHP







recently traded for a PRS. I liek teh LOP adjustments more than teh short cheekpiece, but be warned: she weighs a FREAKING ton. I'm thinking about going back to the VLTOR. I kinda wanted to stay as light as possible on this build without sacrificing precision, so the PRS kinda screwed that up!






Link Posted: 3/26/2006 11:59:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 12:17:56 PM EDT by ian187]
A grand will only get you started.

-Northern Comp custom 18" 1/8 twist chromoly barrel (heavy fluted, Cryo'd, Hand Lapped, Wylde chamber, shot peened, deep blued, w/ windage flats)
-Ameetec Upper and Lower receivers
-DD 12.0 Rail
-Colt bolt
-RRA carrier
-PRI gas block
-CMC Single stage trigger
-LMT SOPMOD
-LaRue SPR scope mount
-Leupold 3.5X10 M1 MilDot
-MagPul grip
-and all the other odds and ends including a lower parts, pelican case, mags, cleaning kit, blah blah blah.

This is probably $3.5K:


Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:11:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 12:22:39 PM EDT by Lawman734]
Chapperjoe, that's a nice looking rifle you have there. I'll disagree though and say that a precision AR can definetely be done for about a grand, not necessarily with top shelf parts (Daniel Defense, KAC, Larue, etc) but it can be done and still be an easy 3/4MOA or less. Now, if you do want to build it up using all top shelf parts, $2k is a better starting point and it can go way up from there.
For AR's it's all in the barrel(Free Floated) and trigger, as long as you do good with both of those, everything else is just icing on the cake. It doesn't need to be a custom barrel as long as it's a good quality target barrel and can be assembled if your proficient in the assemby of AR's.

Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:11:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ian187:
A grand will only get you started.

-Northern Comp custom 18" 1/8 twist chromoly barrel (heavy fluted, Cryo'd, Hand Lapped, Wylde chamber, shot peened, deep blued, w/ windage flats)
-Ameetec Upper and Lower receivers
-DD 12.0 Rail
-Colt bolt
-RRA carrier
-PRI gas block
-LMT SOPMOD
-LaRue SPR scope mount
-Leupold 3.5X10 M1 MilDot
-MagPul grip
-and all the other odds and ends including a lower parts, pelican case, mags, cleaning kit, blah blah blah.

This is probably $3.5K:

www.gotbeltfed.com/images/SPR/DSC_0068r.jpg
www.gotbeltfed.com/images/SPR/DSC_0038r.jpg



that's true too. I haven't ordered a case yet, but she's getting something more than the std eagle discreet case! I did get my custom dewey rod measured JUST for this length, and a bore guide too. normally I don't care, but for this build I thought it proper.

Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:18:42 PM EDT
It can never end, so just keep saving money.

another SPR Variant..

Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:21:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lawman734:
Chapperjoe, that's a nice looking rifle you have there. I'll disagree though and say that a precision AR can definetely be done for about a grand, not necessarily with top shelf parts (Daniel Defense, KAC, Larue, etc) but it can be done and still be an easy 3/4MOA or less.
For AR's it's all in the barrel(Free Floated) and trigger, as long as you do good with both of those, everything else is just icing on the cake. It doesn't need to be a custom barrel as long as it's a good quality target barrel and can be assembled if your proficient in the assemby of AR's.




A Wilson barrel on a bone stock AR with a POS scope is still probably good for 3/4 MOA @ 100 yards. The challenge is making an AR shoot less than 3/4 MOA out to 600 yards for 1500 rounds in all conditions.

Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:34:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ian187:
A Wilson barrel on a bone stock AR with a POS scope is still probably good for 3/4 MOA @ 100 yards. The challenge is making an AR shoot less than 3/4 MOA out to 600 yards for 1500 rounds in all conditions.




I know it and thats not necessarily a problem either, it's all in how you assemble it and in the barrel you use. I have seen several RRA rifles with their 1:8 NM barrel shoot sub 1/2MOA at 650 and maintain it with nothing special but an aluminum FF tube and a 2 stage trigger. Now, the military and shooters with shoot tactical type comp's, etc. have different requirements which is why all the top shelf stuff is used to very good effect.
My point is not that the top shelf items are wasted money-because they certainly aren't and that's why I buy them. My point is that a precision AR can be built for about a grand using parts off the shelf that cost a lot less and still be consistently accurate.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:34:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ian187:

Originally Posted By Lawman734:
Chapperjoe, that's a nice looking rifle you have there. I'll disagree though and say that a precision AR can definetely be done for about a grand, not necessarily with top shelf parts (Daniel Defense, KAC, Larue, etc) but it can be done and still be an easy 3/4MOA or less.
For AR's it's all in the barrel(Free Floated) and trigger, as long as you do good with both of those, everything else is just icing on the cake. It doesn't need to be a custom barrel as long as it's a good quality target barrel and can be assembled if your proficient in the assemby of AR's.




A Wilson barrel on a bone stock AR with a POS scope is still probably good for 3/4 MOA @ 100 yards. The challenge is making an AR shoot less than 3/4 MOA out to 600 yards for 1500 rounds in all conditions.




I agree with both of above posters. AR as a platform is already accurate, match trigger's affordable, not expensive to just plain free float. But the barrel is key to getting it 'out there'. The barrel should be (sure was for me!) most expensive component on your rifle. (NV, LR/T's and Nightforce's are GRRRRRRRRRRREAT, but on a budget, the Super Sniper is more than fine.)

and yeah, you can save alot of money by skipping the rails, but this IS arfkom and there are rules!
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 1:07:02 PM EDT
The barrel selection is the most important component of an AR build.

It is typically the most expensive part of the build. If it's not, it's probably not a barrel you want.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 1:15:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:18:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By comp1911:

It is typically the most expensive part of the build. If it's not, it's probably not a barrel you want.



Glass is usually by far the most expensive single component on any rifle. If you spent more on your barrel than on your scope you should rethink what you intend to do with the rifle and probably buy a cheaper barrel.



Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:26:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 3:28:22 PM EDT by THellURider]
Noveske Afghan.... have a US Optics 1-4 Illum on the way though.

Shoots 0.5 - 0.75 MOA....



ETA: Fing Photo Bucket....
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:28:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 3:28:51 PM EDT by Variablebinary]
Like I said the $1K isnt my entire budget, I'll probably use my credit toward the upper, BCG, stock and trigger. And determine what Glass, barrel, BUIS, bipod, and what FF rail I want over time.

Middy RECCE-ish seems to be the most cost effective approach


Originally Posted By THellURider:
Noveske Afghan.... have a US Optics 1-4 Illum on the way though.

Shoots 0.5 - 0.75 MOA....

i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/THellURider/DSC_0147.jpg

ETA: Fing Photo Bucket....



Any chance you have a larger pic
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:30:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dubb-1:
My interpretation of the precision AR...

72.240.1.103/dubb-1/dubb-spr1.jpg



don't even want to know what that cost!
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:32:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
Like I said the $1K isnt my entire budget, I'll probably use my credit toward the upper, BCG, stock and trigger. And determine what Glass, barrel, BUIS, bipod, and what FF rail I want over time.

Middy RECCE-ish seems to be the most cost effective approach


Originally Posted By THellURider:
Noveske Afghan.... have a US Optics 1-4 Illum on the way though.

Shoots 0.5 - 0.75 MOA....

i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/THellURider/DSC_0147.jpg

ETA: Fing Photo Bucket....



Any chance you have a larger pic



Email me and I'll hit you with a couple.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:50:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 3:55:10 PM EDT by hispeedal2]
My interpretation of a Recce. The way it was meant originally. There seems to be all sorts of things called Recces today, but this is what I belive the original concept was more like:






I chose a Stag upper b/c of the value. I stuck with chrome lined bore b/c it needs to do everything that a normal carbine does including take the weather. I went with a MI freefloat tube b/c of the quality and fit. The picatinny rail also helps with mounting the bipod. I chose the ACOG b/c it is built like a tank. Larger magnification is simply not needed to make kill shots at 600M. I don't shoot heavy bullets (nothing over 69grns). If I need more reach than 600M (longer than I can accurately identify targets in time to be effective anyways), I will move up to the M1A with a 10x and 40mm OBJ. That 168 HPBT will take anything else much easier and without an issue bucking wind. If I need anything further- the 700 in an AICS with a M118. There is no one tool for everything. If you need to hit a consistent dime group at 100M (either a bench rest shooter or LE sniper) then get SS barrels and larger optics. If you are concerned about center of mass at 600M and being able to clear a room with the same weapon- try my configuration.

JMHO

Edited b/c I can't spell.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:55:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hispeedal2:
My interpretation of a Recce. The way it was meant originally. There seems to be all sorts of things called Recces today, but this is what I belive the original concept was more like:

i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/hispeedal1/Side2.jpg
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/hispeedal1/Side1.jpg
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/hispeedal1/MIrail.jpg
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/hispeedal1/TA31F.jpg

I chose a Stag upper b/c of the value. I stuck with chrome lined bore b/c it needs to do everything that a normal carbine does including take the weather. I went with a MI freefloat tube b/c of the quality and fit. The picatinny rail also helps with mounting the bipod. I chose the ACOG b/c it is built like a tank. Larger magnification is simply not needed to make kill shots at 600M. I don't shoot heavy bullets (nothing over 69grns). If I need more reach than 600M (longer than I can accurately identify targets in time to be effective anyways), I will move up to the M1A with a 10x and 40mm OBJ. That 168 HPBT will take anything else much easier and without an issue bucking wind. If I need anything further- the 700 in an AICS with a M118. There is no one tool for everything. If you need to hit a consistent dime group at 100M (either a bench rest shooter or LE sniper) then get SS barrels and larger optics. If you are concerned about center of mass at 600M and being able to clear a room with the same weapon- try my configuration.

JMHO

Edited b/c I can't spell.



What kind of rail is that?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:58:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:

Originally Posted By hispeedal2:
My interpretation of a Recce. The way it was meant originally. There seems to be all sorts of things called Recces today, but this is what I belive the original concept was more like:

i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/hispeedal1/Side2.jpg
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/hispeedal1/Side1.jpg
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/hispeedal1/MIrail.jpg
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/hispeedal1/TA31F.jpg

I chose a Stag upper b/c of the value. I stuck with chrome lined bore b/c it needs to do everything that a normal carbine does including take the weather. I went with a MI freefloat tube b/c of the quality and fit. The picatinny rail also helps with mounting the bipod. I chose the ACOG b/c it is built like a tank. Larger magnification is simply not needed to make kill shots at 600M. I don't shoot heavy bullets (nothing over 69grns). If I need more reach than 600M (longer than I can accurately identify targets in time to be effective anyways), I will move up to the M1A with a 10x and 40mm OBJ. That 168 HPBT will take anything else much easier and without an issue bucking wind. If I need anything further- the 700 in an AICS with a M118. There is no one tool for everything. If you need to hit a consistent dime group at 100M (either a bench rest shooter or LE sniper) then get SS barrels and larger optics. If you are concerned about center of mass at 600M and being able to clear a room with the same weapon- try my configuration.

JMHO

Edited b/c I can't spell.



What kind of rail is that?



It's a Midwest Industries two piece FF.

Great rail. I am really happy with it.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:02:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:38:12 PM EDT
http://photobucket.com/albums/h101/30rdmag/?action=view¤t=shotgun004.jpg
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:45:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 4:46:20 PM EDT by Lawman734]
.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:22:28 PM EDT
Pics of the Army SDM-R, if I remember correctly, previously posted on this forum. SEXY! ARKAR




Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:43:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By THellURider:

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
Like I said the $1K isnt my entire budget, I'll probably use my credit toward the upper, BCG, stock and trigger. And determine what Glass, barrel, BUIS, bipod, and what FF rail I want over time.

Middy RECCE-ish seems to be the most cost effective approach


Originally Posted By THellURider:
Noveske Afghan.... have a US Optics 1-4 Illum on the way though.

Shoots 0.5 - 0.75 MOA....

i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/THellURider/DSC_0147.jpg

ETA: Fing Photo Bucket....



Any chance you have a larger pic



Email me and I'll hit you with a couple.



email sent, thanks
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:10:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 6:12:02 PM EDT by comp1911]

Originally Posted By ian187:

Originally Posted By comp1911:

It is typically the most expensive part of the build. If it's not, it's probably not a barrel you want.



Glass is usually by far the most expensive single component on any rifle. If you spent more on your barrel than on your scope you should rethink what you intend to do with the rifle and probably buy a cheaper barrel.






Thanks for pointing that out. I did not take optics into consideraton. I was only speaking to the mechanical components of the rifle. Top quality optics would cost as much as the entire rifle in some cases.

Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:12:15 PM EDT
Agreed on the idea of glass. I planned on around $1800 on the scope. Found what I wanted for $2300 with the mount.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:54:01 PM EDT
Hey guys,

I'm in the same boat (wanting to build a precision AR without breaking the bank) so this thread is timely.

Question - a few of you mentioned that you feel it's worth the extra $ to have the upper "professionally built" for best accuracy. I'm curious to read why you guys feel that way? We are talking about AR's here not M700's. I can't think of anything a "pro" could possibly do differently then the average shade tree AR mechanic that would increase the upper's accuracy potential but maybe I'm missing something? If I am, please enlighten me?

Thanks
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:58:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cgv69:
Hey guys,

I'm in the same boat (wanting to build a precision AR without breaking the bank) so this thread is timely.

Question - a few of you mentioned that you feel it's worth the extra $ to have the upper "professionally built" for best accuracy. I'm curious to read why you guys feel that way? We are talking about AR's here not M700's. I can't think of anything a "pro" could possibly do differently then the average shade tree AR mechanic that would increase the upper's accuracy potential but maybe I'm missing something? If I am, please enlighten me?

Thanks



2 things that come to mind real quick is proper barrel tightening/assembly and if you spend the money and have a fitted bolt for your upper..
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 7:04:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 7:07:55 PM EDT by Lawman734]

Originally Posted By cgv69:

Question - a few of you mentioned that you feel it's worth the extra $ to have the upper "professionally built" for best accuracy. I'm curious to read why you guys feel that way? We are talking about AR's here not M700's. I can't think of anything a "pro" could possibly do differently then the average shade tree AR mechanic that would increase the upper's accuracy potential but maybe I'm missing something? If I am, please enlighten me?

Thanks



There are a few reasons why. I think the biggest reason is simply because of the better availability of barrels. If you have it built, you can specify what barrel blank used, profile, most importantly-how you want it chambered and for what bullet you'll most likely be shooting (lead length).
With a good smith (I prefer George Gardner and crew at G.A.Precision), you have available barrels from Mike Rock, Broughton, Schneider, Krieger and Obermeyer. None of these barrels are available ready to install as they are sold as blanks and need to be chambered by a competent 'smith. If you call George, you can tell him what twist you want, and what you plan on doing with the rifle so that he can set up your chamber accordingly. George will sell you a barrel, with a matching bolt but he really prefers that you send him the parts for assembly. He doesn't charge anything for assembly and it gives him overall control into how things are assembled so that nobody blows themselves up-I know, difficult with an AR but I understand the smith's point of view. This overall control ensures that you have a properly assembled upper that will perform as it should.
A custom barrel usually is tighter than your run of the mill barrels giving you higher velocity and are a breeze to clean with very little copper fouling.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 9:43:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 9:43:52 PM EDT by Variablebinary]
What is a better precision scope for a RECCE, ACOG or Leupold?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:55:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 12:56:33 AM EDT by Rob96]

Originally Posted By hispeedal2:
My interpretation of a Recce. The way it was meant originally. There seems to be all sorts of things called Recces today, but this is what I belive the original concept was more like:

i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/hispeedal1/Side2.jpg
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/hispeedal1/Side1.jpg
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/hispeedal1/MIrail.jpg
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/hispeedal1/TA31F.jpg

I chose a Stag upper b/c of the value. I stuck with chrome lined bore b/c it needs to do everything that a normal carbine does including take the weather. I went with a MI freefloat tube b/c of the quality and fit. The picatinny rail also helps with mounting the bipod. I chose the ACOG b/c it is built like a tank. Larger magnification is simply not needed to make kill shots at 600M. I don't shoot heavy bullets (nothing over 69grns). If I need more reach than 600M (longer than I can accurately identify targets in time to be effective anyways), I will move up to the M1A with a 10x and 40mm OBJ. That 168 HPBT will take anything else much easier and without an issue bucking wind. If I need anything further- the 700 in an AICS with a M118. There is no one tool for everything. If you need to hit a consistent dime group at 100M (either a bench rest shooter or LE sniper) then get SS barrels and larger optics. If you are concerned about center of mass at 600M and being able to clear a room with the same weapon- try my configuration.

JMHO

Edited b/c I can't spell.




Ding ding ding ing, we have a winner.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:57:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
What is a better precision scope for a RECCE, ACOG or Leupold?



I would say some type of 1x - 4x scope, as the RECCE is meant to do everything from close in fighting to farther out "sniping".
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:59:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
What is a better precision scope for a RECCE, ACOG or Leupold?



really depends on what the use of rifle will be. I think (one again I. me. just me!) that here on arfkom, those who haven't read the sticky's assume that a SPR is a 16 inch accuriszed rig, a Recce is a 18 incher and a SDM/DMR is a 20 incher. As their names suggest, they all have different purposes. SPR's, especially here, seem to get the 1-4's more than anything else, maybe cause of the short barrel, folks thin cqb is an option, which orf course it is. the recce can really get ANYTHING. a good one is capable of almost anything. I popped a 10x super sniper on mine, but I've seen acogs, 3-9 loopy's, 5-15 NF's, etc. the SDM/DMR's are generally seen with acogs probably cause that's what the mil puts on most of them.

Since we're all civvies here, you can mix and match scopes and rifles.

I say super sniper.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:54:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lawman734:

Originally Posted By cgv69:

Question - a few of you mentioned that you feel it's worth the extra $ to have the upper "professionally built" for best accuracy. I'm curious to read why you guys feel that way? We are talking about AR's here not M700's. I can't think of anything a "pro" could possibly do differently then the average shade tree AR mechanic that would increase the upper's accuracy potential but maybe I'm missing something? If I am, please enlighten me?

Thanks



There are a few reasons why. I think the biggest reason is simply because of the better availability of barrels. If you have it built, you can specify what barrel blank used, profile, most importantly-how you want it chambered and for what bullet you'll most likely be shooting (lead length).
With a good smith (I prefer George Gardner and crew at G.A.Precision), you have available barrels from Mike Rock, Broughton, Schneider, Krieger and Obermeyer. None of these barrels are available ready to install as they are sold as blanks and need to be chambered by a competent 'smith. If you call George, you can tell him what twist you want, and what you plan on doing with the rifle so that he can set up your chamber accordingly. George will sell you a barrel, with a matching bolt but he really prefers that you send him the parts for assembly. He doesn't charge anything for assembly and it gives him overall control into how things are assembled so that nobody blows themselves up-I know, difficult with an AR but I understand the smith's point of view. This overall control ensures that you have a properly assembled upper that will perform as it should.
A custom barrel usually is tighter than your run of the mill barrels giving you higher velocity and are a breeze to clean with very little copper fouling.



Thanks for the reply. I could see your point if you are looking to get something truly custom and the builder in that case, by building it out himself, can test fire it to make sure all is well. In my case, I'm looking at semi-custom. Barrels by WOA, (or maybe Noveske, etc). that are made in batches in a desired twist rate\barrel profile.

I guess everybody needs to evaluate their own needs\situations. In my case, I doubt I could out shoot a WOA barrel and they can be had for under $300 so I really can't justify a ~$500 barrel. I don't doubt that some of the custom barrels you mentioned are worth the extra money in the right hands, I just know I don't have the "right hands" to justify them. In my case, I think the extra money would be better spent on practice ammo.
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