I'm heading off to officer school this summer and want to know what to expect.

qual targets are freaking huge.  are you planning on shooting these at the 2, 3 and 500 yard lines?

Quoted: Does anyone know the dimesions of the targets they use for rifle qualification?  I'm heading off to officer school this summer and want to do some shooting with the same stuff.

If you're going to OCS, don't bother.  whatever stupid shit you fuck yourself up with will need to get unfucked by professionals when you get there.

Quoted: Quoted: Does anyone know the dimesions of the targets they use for rifle qualification?  I'm heading off to officer school this summer and want to do some shooting with the same stuff. If you're going to OCS, don't bother.  whatever stupid shit you fuck yourself up with will need to get unfucked by professionals when you get there.

Delicately put.

In other words, Bittner182, you should not develop any new bad habits you'll have to get rid of in OCS-because if you haven't been trained by the Corps, you're already doing it wrong.  Guaranteed.

In other words, Bittner182, you should not develop any new bad habits you'll have to get rid of in OCS-because if you haven't been trained by the Corps, you're already doing it wrong. Guaranteed.

HAHAHAHA

SEMPER FI ---

Don't bother .

The best "Boot" shooters were the guys who had never shot - THEY HAD NO BAD HABITS.........

Forget every freakin' thing Daddy and Grandpa ever taught you - you will be assimilated.

Yes, I know I'm gonna have to learn their technique, but I just want an idea of what I'll be aiming at.  I have plenty of room around my house and want to practice shooting a few hundred yards.  So if anyone knows the dimesions please help me out.  THANKS

dont when you get their they will sit you straight, cause if you start practicing now you will get bad habits and then you will be in a world of shit when you start shooting down their.

Quoted: Yes, I know I'm gonna have to learn their technique, but I just want an idea of what I'll be aiming at.  I have plenty of room around my house and want to practice shooting a few hundred yards.  So if anyone knows the dimesions please help me out.  THANKS

How about this: stop thinking about "getting ideas" and work on your PT.  What's your three mile time?

How many people have said "Don't bother?"  Are you sure you're cut out for OCS?  Maybe you should stay in college and finish up your liberal arts degree and join the Army.  Maybe you'll get a unit with a snappy name or a cool patch.

Well before I got mono 4 weeks ago, I was down to a 23 min mi after 3 weeks of running.  17 pullups, and 92 situps in the 2 min.  Hopefully my losing 15 lbs will help out the running a little.  Its not too hard to stay in shape at school with football.

Quoted: Well before I got mono 4 weeks ago, I was down to a 23 min mi after 3 weeks of running.  17 pullups, and 92 situps in the 2 min.  Hopefully my losing 15 lbs will help out the running a little.  Its not too hard to stay in shape at school with football.

Run more.  23min isn't a bad time, but it's not good either.  You know how many points you'll need, and the more running you do now the better.  Concentrate on PT, let the Corp teach you how to shoot.  It's just a matter of discipline.

you don't shoot at OCS period (except for blanks)
You'll do your shooting at TBS
No offense but at 23 minutes you'll be at the rear of the pack at OCS and you will really struggle with the PT. I went with a 285  20:00 run time and PT still sucked for me at OCS

Quoted: you don't shoot at OCS period (except for blanks) You'll do your shooting at TBS No offense but at 23 minutes you'll be at the rear of the pack at OCS and you will really struggle with the PT. I went with a 285  20:00 run time and PT still sucked for me at OCS

+1  Buddy of mine rocked out with a 22...  

Yeah PT there is no joke. Not that it's that hard, it's just non stop everyday, sometimes twice a day. You get burned out by about the 3rd week. You need to go in tip-top shape.

Agree that a 23+ three minute mile will be weak....and it will be noticed from the initial PFT.  Also, summer in Quantico is hot and humid as I'm sure you've been told.  You won't shoot a round at OCS and the tactics training you receive is minimal.  Spend the next few months PTing instead.  

PT

i dont mean to hi-jack your thread but:
you need much, MUCH more PT.  those are really weak scores for OCS. your pull-ups are good but you need to shave at least 2min off of that run and 100 sit-ups are mandatory. unless of course you actually want to go to admin school or supply school.

for what its worth...i have 2 close friends from active duty days who went to OCS. they both showed up at quantico with 285 PFTs and both of them said the PT was a ball buster. ive been told many many times that the PT at quantico is much harder than Parris Island. maybe some mustang members can chime in

Well first off, if by "officer school" you mean Marine Corps Officer Candidate School in Quantico, don't worry about shooting accuracy.  You will not touch a live round while in OCS.
Second, if you're pre-OCS, this is the last thing you need to be thinking about.  Work on that PT, because your numbers are not that great at the moment.  23 minutes is considered a little slow, and if I remember correctly, you have to run better than 24 on the initial PFT or run the risk of being dropped.  Additionally, the vast majority of people get their 100 crunches.  If you are one of the guys who does not get 100 crunches, that is a big red flag to the instructors that you are not physically prepared for OCS.  17 pull ups is not bad, but they better be perfect form, meaning no lower body movement and arms fully extended.  Chances are, the instructors wont care for some of your pull ups, so you may very well do 17 but not all of them will count.  Since you're going through in the summer, practice cramming water down your throat and avoiding the silver bullet.  Finally, grab an ALICE pack, cram as much as you possibly can into it, then cram some more in, and then some more, and then go practice for humps.

Now, after all this if you are really wrapped around the axle about your shooting ability and you're hellbent on qualifying expert(assuming you make it through OCS and make it to TBS to qual), go do grouping exercises.  If you can shoot good groups, you should have no trouble with the qual course.  If you can't group, it's impossible to make good sight adjustments, and you won't know whether you screwed up the shot or if the wind took it.  If you can group consistently, you can adjust your sights accordingly and be in the black all day.  If not, you'll just be chasing the bullseye and getting frustrated.

ETA
1)I'm too slow in typing responses.
2)PT at OCS is by all accounts more difficult than MCRD.
3)At OCS, PT ability is often directly associated with leadership ability, whether that is warranted or not.  You may be a shit hot leader, but about all you're leading is shit if you're in the back of the pack.
4)OCS will probably trim your run time significantly.  I ran a 19:06 on the initial, and ran a 17:30 on the final.  Also, most graded physical events are run based, meaning that there is no graded weight lifting competition at OCS.

I F-ing hated running but you do need to work on that run time. 4 years in and all 284 PFTs. 20:30 run times and I think that I suck at running.Good start on the 20/80 though...

Slug-O-matic

I am enlisted went throught MCRD San Diego
OCS PT is much more challenging. And I found OCS to suck about twice as much as recruit training.

Yea I've heard the running is a bitch, it totally takes a little while to get used to it.  I'll be there in july so it will be hotter than shit.  I know I have to work on my times, but that was the fist time I ran 3 miles ever so I can drop some time.   Plus i was alomst 15lbs heavier at the time.  Its a pain in the ass running in northern ohio.  

Quoted: Quoted: Yes, I know I'm gonna have to learn their technique, but I just want an idea of what I'll be aiming at.  I have plenty of room around my house and want to practice shooting a few hundred yards.  So if anyone knows the dimesions please help me out.  THANKS How about this: stop thinking about "getting ideas" and work on your PT.  What's your three mile time? How many people have said "Don't bother?"  Are you sure you're cut out for OCS?  Maybe you should stay in college and finish up your liberal arts degree and join the Army.  Maybe you'll get a unit with a snappy name or a cool patch.

This is how I identify people that have never been in direct combat.  They are still wasting breaths fighting between the Corps and the Army.

Having been in both, I can say that as far as the infantry, we're all the same so get over yourself.

Quoted: Yea I've heard the running is a bitch, it totally takes a little while to get used to it.  I'll be there in july so it will be hotter than shit.  I know I have to work on my times, but that was the fist time I ran 3 miles ever so I can drop some time.

In addition to normal runs, you'll also do fartlek courses where you'll have stations along the way to do all sorts of fun exercises.  The longest runs you'll probably do will be around 6-7 miles, so you want to be sure to at least be able to knock that out at a 8 min mile pace.  Yeah, it may be cold and hard to run this time of year in OH, but get out and do it.  It will take time to build up, but the longer you wait the more it will bite you this summer.

I tend to see logic in the guy's post who has the CIB Avatar...

Sorry if I went oftopic with my little rant earlier, folks.  That kind of thing just pisses me off to no end.  Right now I'm Army infantry attached to the II Marine Expeditionary Force.  We can work togther!  Heck, my company right now is made up of three Army platoons and two Marine platoons.  How's that for crazy.

Let me actually say something topical now.  +1 to all the people  who say worry about PT, not marksmanship.  PT is the make-or-break in the Corps.  IMHO, they probably focus on it a little too much, caring more for a guy who's 100% in PT and 50% in leadership than a guy who is 90% in PT and 90% in leadership, but hey, that's just how it is.  So worry about the PT, compared to it shooting the qual is a cinch.

Here are the targets from the KD portion of the new order....

Old timers will remember that these are the same targets we use to have to annually qualify on . Everything old is new again.

Quoted: In other words, Bittner182, you should not develop any new bad habits you'll have to get rid of in OCS-because if you haven't been trained by the Corps, you're already doing it wrong. Guaranteed. HAHAHAHA SEMPER FI --- Don't bother . The best "Boot" shooters were the guys who had never shot - THEY HAD NO BAD HABITS......... Forget every freakin' thing Daddy and Grandpa ever taught you - you will be assimilated.

Absolutely true they will teach you from scratch.

thanks for the info and ill keep stepping up the PT as soon as spring ball is done!

I qualified expert on the KD at PI, but out at the Fleet met some Hollywood Marines who grew up as country boys shooting long range who imparted secrets of the bullseye and to this day I still factor in temperature, weather esp. wind, and range estimation, KD is easy, field firing is much more difficult. I had only fired handguns in Brooklyn basements growing up in NYC and had never fired a rifle but after PI consider myself a rifleman even at my old age.

Quoted: Well before I got mono 4 weeks ago, I was down to a 23 min mi after 3 weeks of running.  17 pullups, and 92 situps in the 2 min.  Hopefully my losing 15 lbs will help out the running a little.  Its not too hard to stay in shape at school with football.

I used to run the 3 miles in 16 minutes.  Once in boot camp (Paris Island) I was on 100 setups at 1:30.  In a rare show of kindness the DI got me to stop at that point.  Then he made me a Squad Leader.  I didn't want that.  I wanted to stay under the radar.  I regularly scored 300 on my PFT's.  Back then I was motivated.  You can't tell that by looking at me now.  Maybe it's time to get back in shape.

How many people have said "Don't bother?"  Are you sure you're cut out for OCS?  Maybe you should stay in college and finish up your liberal arts degree and join the Army.  Maybe you'll get a unit with a snappy name or a cool patch.

NOW THAT IS SOME FUNNY ASS SHIT RIGHT THERE...

Quoted: Well before I got mono 4 weeks ago, I was down to a 23 min 3 miles........

SON -- You had better pick up the pace.

The guys in the WEEKEND REMEDIAL GROUPS "THE FAT BOYS"  run faster than that once you get to the fleet.

you want to get through OCs without BEING SINGLED OUT FOR PROBLEMS.

PT is the largest factor I remember of any part of training.

Quoted: Quoted: you don't shoot at OCS period (except for blanks) You'll do your shooting at TBS No offense but at 23 minutes you'll be at the rear of the pack at OCS and you will really struggle with the PT. I went with a 285  20:00 run time and PT still sucked for me at OCS +1  Buddy of mine rocked out with a 22...

HAHAHAHAHAHA
I probably could not make 3 miles now, period  - but my best time while in was 17:50  
I still came in 6th.
I was pissed.
Ran so hard I puked when I was done.
Still remember it just like it was yesterday -  BUT many yesterdays ago...

Quoted: How many people have said "Don't bother?"  Are you sure you're cut out for OCS?  Maybe you should stay in college and finish up your liberal arts degree and join the Army.  Maybe you'll get a unit with a snappy name or a cool patch. NOW THAT IS SOME FUNNY ASS SHIT RIGHT THERE...

*sigh*

i dont mean to keep whipping the dead horse but i have talked to a couple friends since i posted last. the general concensus is that if you show up with those scores you probably wont make it. youd be in the lower 1/3 of recruits at PI with that run. hit 20min and 100 sit ups and you should be ok.

Quoted: i dont mean to hi-jack your thread but: you need much, MUCH more PT.  those are really weak scores for OCS. your pull-ups are good but you need to shave at least 2min off of that run and 100 sit-ups are mandatory. unless of course you actually want to go to admin school or supply school. for what its worth...i have 2 close friends from active duty days who went to OCS. they both showed up at quantico with 285 PFTs and both of them said the PT was a ball buster. ive been told many many times that the PT at quantico is much harder than Parris Island. maybe some mustang members can chime in

NOT a MUSTANG - but know a few and have a bunch of Officer pals.

Officers are held to and SHOULD BE EXPECTED to be held to a higher standard and expecation level - thus will be pushed harder and more expected out of due to the fact that they have to LEAD by EXAMPLE from the FRONT in the CORPS.

Something that many do not truely understand until they get into the FLEET , especially once they , if they get into a LINE UNIT.

How many people have said "Don't bother?"  Are you sure you're cut out for OCS?  Maybe you should stay in college and finish up your liberal arts degree and join the Army.  Maybe you'll get a unit with a snappy name or a cool patch.

PHOEBUS WROTE ---
This is how I identify people that have never been in direct combat.  They are still wasting breaths fighting between the Corps and the Army.

Having been in both, I can say that as far as the infantry, we're all the same so get over yourself.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Cool your JETS BROTHER ...
We Men back stateside truly appreciate what you and all our BROTHERS from all forces are doing for US right now.
As a VET of the prior GULF engagement and Somalia I and many of my friends---  still crack jokes on my Army Friends who ALSO has been in COMBAT.  
They Rip on us JARHEADS the same way.
IT IS ALL IN GOOD FUN.

I believe his statement was not meant as an insult  in any fashion.
It was in fact a way of adding a little humor to the post.

He in no way is trying to degrade anyone in the ARMY, but making a - CROSS-MILITARY JOKE -that has been around and used by MANY MANY MANY MANY    ------------
SOLDIERS, SAILORS, AIRMEN, MARINES  far tooo numerous times  throughout the history of the UNITED STATES.

HECK - AUDIE MURPHY - the most decorated soldier in the US MILITARY  used to rag on Marines. ----------------------It was all in fun.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE - We appreciate our freedom  that you are currently providing for us - however you know nothing about anyone on this board.

 
That was uncalled for.


Sleep Safe and Cover your 6---------------------  
You are truly -- LIVING LIFE ON THE TIP OF THE SPEAR .
We are praying for you and the rest of our brothers to return home safely.

Quoted: Here are the targets from the KD portion of the new order.... mysite.verizon.net/vze6rgrq/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/slide20.jpg Old timers will remember that these are the same targets we use to have to annually qualify on . Everything old is new again.

DOG TARGETS,
DOG TARGETS
-  WAIT TILL YOUR DOG TARGETS APPEAR..

I GOT CHILL BUMPS GUNNY G.

OOORRRAHHHH

If I was not OLD and FAT I would think about reinlisting.

Wait a minute - With my degrees I would probably go to OCS - become a MUSTANG and run a 20:00 PT..

AWWWWWW  - The Easy Life...

JUST A JOKE ME -  

I dont want to sound disrespectful, but I think you guys missed where I said it was my first recored 3 mi, and not my best time.  I ran a week of 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, then 3.0.  Those 4 weeks were my first time running distance ever.  So I will be better than that for sure.

Quoted: I dont want to sound disrespectful, but I think you guys missed where I said it was my first recored 3 mi, and not my best time.  I ran a week of 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, then 3.0.  Those 4 weeks were my first time running distance ever.  So I will be better than that for sure.

Just keep up the good hard training..
We are just giving you a hard time.

I used to run and repeat over and over in my mind ---

"THE MORE YOU SWEAT IN PEACE THE LESS YOU BLEED IN WAR"

That will motivate you to pick up your knees a little faster if anything will.

Semper Fi
 Hope your time gets better or only platoon you'll be in charge of is a remedial platoon.

Quoted: How many people have said "Don't bother?"  Are you sure you're cut out for OCS?  Maybe you should stay in college and finish up your liberal arts degree and join the Army.  Maybe you'll get a unit with a snappy name or a cool patch. PHOEBUS WROTE --- This is how I identify people that have never been in direct combat.  They are still wasting breaths fighting between the Corps and the Army. Having been in both, I can say that as far as the infantry, we're all the same so get over yourself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cool your JETS BROTHER ... We Men back stateside truly appreciate what you and all our BROTHERS from all forces are doing for US right now. As a VET of the prior GULF engagement and Somalia I and many of my friends---  still crack jokes on my Army Friends who ALSO has been in COMBAT.   They Rip on us JARHEADS the same way. IT IS ALL IN GOOD FUN. I believe his statement was not meant as an insult  in any fashion. It was in fact a way of adding a little humor to the post. He in no way is trying to degrade anyone in the ARMY, but making a - CROSS-MILITARY JOKE -that has been around and used by MANY MANY MANY MANY    ------------ SOLDIERS, SAILORS, AIRMEN, MARINES  far tooo numerous times  throughout the history of the UNITED STATES. HECK - AUDIE MURPHY - the most decorated soldier in the US MILITARY  used to rag on Marines. ----------------------It was all in fun. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE - We appreciate our freedom  that you are currently providing for us - however you know nothing about anyone on this board.   That was uncalled for. Sleep Safe and Cover your 6---------------------   You are truly -- LIVING LIFE ON THE TIP OF THE SPEAR . We are praying for you and the rest of our brothers to return home safely.

Quoted: I dont want to sound disrespectful, but I think you guys missed where I said it was my first recored 3 mi, and not my best time.  I ran a week of 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, then 3.0.  Those 4 weeks were my first time running distance ever.  So I will be better than that for sure.

Three miles isn't distance.

It is for most football players

pardon my ignorance but whats a mustang?  Just a nickname for an officer in the corps?  I was a week away from leaving for Parris Island and I got a DUI and went on ARD, so i have another year before i can leave.  Ironically i got the DUI leaving a party from a friend who just graduated boot camp.  

pardon my ignorance but whats a mustang? Just a nickname for an officer in the corps? I was a week away from leaving for Parris Island and I got a DUI and went on ARD, so i have another year before i can leave. Ironically i got the DUI leaving a party from a friend who just graduated boot camp.

Mustang is term that references a United States Marine Corps Officer who was a prior United States Marine Corps Enlisted person.


Bittner182,
No offense but, your Fu is weak.  You will be in a world of shit at OCS if can't run like a fucking deer.  Thats a fact.  You must get to the point in your training that you don't just finish the timed run, you finish the timed run strong with gusto.  You better be able to turn around at the finish and go back the other way just as strong.  This is an Alpha Dogs only club.  Good Luck Grasshopper.

I say this because you want to be an officer, and as such you might be leading some of my friends so don't take this harshly but if I do offend you than all I can say is grow a thicker skin.

You are WAY behind the power curve if you've only ran 3 miles a few times...you should have shoes with more miles on them then your weight.

You stated you would wait till after spring ball and it is hard for a football player to do some of these things. How bad do you really want this...you see in Boot the mission is to make everyone pass with few exceptions.

In OCS, attrition is the mission. We have quality officers we don't need you, if you can't hack being a leader of Marines they will find out and you'll be doing the seabag drag home.

We are not telling you this to be hard asses, we are telling you because it's the truth.

Quoted: How many people have said "Don't bother?"  Are you sure you're cut out for OCS?  Maybe you should stay in college and finish up your liberal arts degree and join the Army.  Maybe you'll get a unit with a snappy name or a cool patch. PHOEBUS WROTE --- This is how I identify people that have never been in direct combat.  They are still wasting breaths fighting between the Corps and the Army. Having been in both, I can say that as far as the infantry, we're all the same so get over yourself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cool your JETS BROTHER ... We Men back stateside truly appreciate what you and all our BROTHERS from all forces are doing for US right now. As a VET of the prior GULF engagement and Somalia I and many of my friends---  still crack jokes on my Army Friends who ALSO has been in COMBAT.   They Rip on us JARHEADS the same way. IT IS ALL IN GOOD FUN. I believe his statement was not meant as an insult  in any fashion. It was in fact a way of adding a little humor to the post. He in no way is trying to degrade anyone in the ARMY, but making a - CROSS-MILITARY JOKE -that has been around and used by MANY MANY MANY MANY    ------------ SOLDIERS, SAILORS, AIRMEN, MARINES  far tooo numerous times  throughout the history of the UNITED STATES. HECK - AUDIE MURPHY - the most decorated soldier in the US MILITARY  used to rag on Marines. ----------------------It was all in fun. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE - We appreciate our freedom  that you are currently providing for us - however you know nothing about anyone on this board.   That was uncalled for. Sleep Safe and Cover your 6---------------------   You are truly -- LIVING LIFE ON THE TIP OF THE SPEAR . We are praying for you and the rest of our brothers to return home safely.

You're right, I'm sorry everyone.  Just having a bad day.  Our date of return was pushed back yet again  Please accept  my apologies, it's no excuse.

Is it common for guys who were Enlisted Men to switch to Commisioned Officers?  I've heard of warrant officers and my uncle was asked to become an commisioned officer but his dad beat into his mind that you have to earn respect so he never did.  

Quoted: Is it common for guys who were Enlisted Men to switch to Commisioned Officers?  I've heard of warrant officers and my uncle was asked to become an commisioned officer but his dad beat into his mind that you have to earn respect so he never did.

Common?  Depends on your definition of common.  There are official numbers out there as to % of officers who are prior E, but I don't know the number off the top of my head.  If I were to GUESS, based on what I have seen, I would say that 10-20% of officers are Mustangs.

@Bittner
You really need to start running, now.  We all understand that this is your first time running 3 miles for time, and we're telling you where you need to be before you start OCS.  I would say that you need to be down to at least a 22 when you arrive, but even then you'll be slow.  I'd say that the vast majority of candidates run a 285+ on the initial, so assuming you can get your pull ups and your crunches to the max, then you need to run a 20:30.  Even if you don't get faster than 22, be damn sure that you max pull ups and crunches.  1 pull up = 50 seconds of run time, and those 8 crunches that you're missing right now equate to 80 seconds of run time.  Right now you're running a 246.  If you max the pull ups and crunches, that puts you at 269, which is still weak by OCS standards.
My next question is, are you within the height/weight standards?

Quoted: Is it common for guys who were Enlisted Men to switch to Commisioned Officers?  I've heard of warrant officers and my uncle was asked to become an commisioned officer but his dad beat into his mind that you have to earn respect so he never did.

It's not uncommon; I've served with a fairly large number of such officers.  My last Deputy Commander was enlisted Army, got a degree and a commission in the Army, then moved to the Air Force-and changed specialties there.  I've had a number of truly outstanding commanders who were prior enlisted.  I'd also add that a couple other commanders were top notch because, though never enlisted, they actually knew the value of the enlisted force; we enlisted pukes do the work.

In a recent conversation with a fellow VA-sponsored student, I learned something I'd like to pass on.  This guy was an Army maintenance officer who felt lost because he didn't understand what his troops did.  Whatever you do in any service, you should know what people who work under you do.  Fight to learn this, even if it takes lots of after-hours time, because it will help you learn who the real workers are and who just sounds good on paper.  It also helps a leader figure out where best to provide which resources.  While this doesn' t sound particularly tactically oriented, I assure you it truly is; a platoon leader NEEDS to know each soldier's strengths and weaknesses in detail so he'll know how hard every soldier can push and when he'll need what sort of help.  Know what your troops do, in detail, and you will be a much better leader.

In recent years the corps has made an effort to get more enlisted guys in commissioning programs, that is what I'm doing now.....it's not uncommon but yeah I'd say 10%-20% sounds about right...