Definitely start hitting the gym hard core.  23 mins seems awfully high for a mile time.  I thought I was out of shape with doing 3 miles in 30 mins.  Everyone else I know blows that out of the water -- I'm obviously hanging out with the wrong folks .

23 min was for his 3 mile time...

Quoted: 23 min was for his 3 mile time...

Ah -- there you go.  I thought it was for his 1 mile time.  Well, I was right -- I'm out of shape .  I was going to say -- I think I could walk a mile in 23 minutes.

Quoted:
Definitely start hitting the gym hard core.

That's the last place he needs to be.  He needs to be out running, doing cals, and getting used to manipulating his body weight for getting up and over obstacles.  Physical stamina and endurance are key at OCS, but the gym isn't going to provide what he needs for OCS -  pull ups, tricep dips, push ups, monkey bars, and rope climbs are the majority of the upper body workouts.  The ideal workout is a long cardio session that incorporates some or all of those exercises.  The PT at OCS isn't about how strong you are - it's about how long you can go and if you can effectively handle your body weight.

Quoted: Quoted: Yes, I know I'm gonna have to learn their technique, but I just want an idea of what I'll be aiming at.  I have plenty of room around my house and want to practice shooting a few hundred yards.  So if anyone knows the dimesions please help me out.  THANKS How about this: stop thinking about "getting ideas" and work on your PT.  What's your three mile time? How many people have said "Don't bother?"  Are you sure you're cut out for OCS?  Maybe you should stay in college and finish up your liberal arts degree and join the Army.  Maybe you'll get a unit with a snappy name or a cool patch.

If he wants to learn to shoot he should join the Army, after all there shooting team has been pounding the Marines for the last few years.

I'm surprised to hear that they don't shoot in OCS!  When I was at Quantico last summer I would see the candidates snapping in for hours.  I didn't actually see them shoot because we were using the ranges for the inter-service championships but I would assume that if they are snapping in they will also shoot live rounds.

Does anyone know the dimesions of the targets they use for rifle qualification? I'm heading off to officer school this summer and want to do some shooting with the same stuff.

I think that this tread went of it's original topic loooooooooong way. So the simple question is: how's about posting a links to actual PDF or other targets that are used as official qualificatin targets?

I believe I'm down to standards right now.  I was at MEPS back in January.  They had to go by body fat though.  But, its not a problem I droped 10 more lbs since, and I'll lose another 5-10lbs before I go while I'm working and running the first part of summer.  When I started the application proccess in November, I was 5 ft 10 and 210lbs now I'm down to 186.  I lost a ton of strength will all that weight loss too.  But from what I've heard it really doesnt matter if you can bench or squat a crap load.  I usually lose weight when I leave school, since I dont have a buffet for every meal at home.  So by the time I get there in July I dont think weight will be a problem.

I really glad this topic went the way it did, I want to know more so I'm prepared.  Please fill me with knowledge!

Quoted: I believe I'm down to standards right now.  I was at MEPS back in January.  They had to go by body fat though.  But, its not a problem I droped 10 more lbs since, and I'll lose another 5-10lbs before I go while I'm working and running the first part of summer.  When I started the application proccess in November, I was 5 ft 10 and 210lbs now I'm down to 186.  I usually lose weight when I leave school, since I dont have a buffet for every meal at home.  So by the time I get there in July I dont think weight will be a problem.

Sorry to echo the chior, but you need tons more cardio.  And it's not the fact that you have a buffet style d-fac to eat in every day on campus.  When I lived on campus I was probably eating 10k calories a day, but I ate a BALANCED diet.  Go ahead and eat pizza and fries.  I did every day.  But I also ate tons of lean protien, and tons of carbs and fruits and veggies too.  Running your ass off will keep the weight off.

When I was in highschool I smoked two packs of full flavor Camels EVERYDAY, and I was running a 5k over uneven terrain in just a few shy seconds over 17min.  I showed up to the starting line with smoke coming out of my lungs, and guys at other schools referred to me as "the guy who smokes a lot but still runs fast."  Whoever mentioned the shoes and the miles was right.  Put on lots of miles, and start doing interval training, and hill work.  There is plenty of info online about that, and if you can't find anything good, send me a PM and I'd be happy to give you tips.

You may think heavily on going to a REAL running shoe store in your area (not Footlocker) where they match you to the PROPER shoe for YOUR foot and running style.  This will do wonders for you.  I've worn the same model of shoes for 7-8yrs and have run more miles than I care to remember.  I usually switch the shoes out every 500ish miles, which is a little late, but I'm poor.  

Make yourself a workout plan with goals and dates...that's the best way to motivate yourself.  Don't do what the rest of the football players do-they're lumbering meatheads who don't know dick about what YOU need to be doing.  I know, I have a student job in a varsity atheletic center for a D-1 school.  I also just got out of Army ROTC because I'd rather go enlisted 18-series.  I won't say why or degrade the ROTC unit I was in on a public forum, but suffice to say that setting your own goals is best because often your performance will either stagnate, decrease, or not rise enough unless you are surrounded by exceptionally motivated people-which I'm sure you'll find at USMC OCS.  I went to a bunch of schools by setting my own goals.  

I tip my hat to all those who have served and continue to serve.  The threads in which you post are always full of useful info and I greatly appreciate the chances to learn from you all.

I am in a similar position as the original poster.  I should be hearing back from Annapolis within the week, but my back up plan is reserves/plc/ocs.

I started running 3 miles every other day along with pull ups, push ups, and crunches last august.

My times on the PFT in August 2005 were:
3 mile run: 23:01
Pull ups: 11
Crunches: 84

When I took the test again in February 2006, the scores were:
Run: 21:04
Pull ups: 13
Crunches 124 (scored 100)

You can get surprisingly better in a few months with hard pratice.  At one point 2 months ago, I was able to churn out a 20:19 3 mile.  Unfortunately I got sick and then sprained my ankle and am struggling to get back to my prime.  I can now do 16 pull ups and still as many crunches.

NEVER STOP TRAINING.  But don't neglect rest!  Without rest, you will not gain.

SF, Good luck.

Quoted: In other words, Bittner182, you should not develop any new bad habits you'll have to get rid of in OCS-because if you haven't been trained by the Corps, you're already doing it wrong. Guaranteed. HAHAHAHA SEMPER FI --- Don't bother . The best "Boot" shooters were the guys who had never shot - THEY HAD NO BAD HABITS......... Forget every freakin' thing Daddy and Grandpa ever taught you - you will be assimilated.

HEY!! I have to take exception to that remark!! I was damned near platoon high shooter (2nd or 3rd back) and I have been shooting all my life. Never shot an AR type until boot camp though. I happen to think it is just because I am an old Kentucky country boy. Part of my proof of this is; think about Alvin York. Though not a Marine, he didn't do too badly in the army and he had been shooting all his life before he shipped over to Europe for the first world war. And then there is Carlos Hathcock of North Carolina while in Vietnam.

Cpl, USMC
'77-'81
MOS 7234

Quoted: I'm surprised to hear that they don't shoot in OCS!  When I was at Quantico last summer I would see the candidates snapping in for hours.  I didn't actually see them shoot because we were using the ranges for the inter-service championships but I would assume that if they are snapping in they will also shoot live rounds.

at OCS you shoot blanks for exercises, but at TBS you will actually qual with live rounds. TBS and OCS are both located at MCB Quantico.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, I know I'm gonna have to learn their technique, but I just want an idea of what I'll be aiming at.  I have plenty of room around my house and want to practice shooting a few hundred yards.  So if anyone knows the dimesions please help me out.  THANKS How about this: stop thinking about "getting ideas" and work on your PT.  What's your three mile time? How many people have said "Don't bother?"  Are you sure you're cut out for OCS?  Maybe you should stay in college and finish up your liberal arts degree and join the Army.  Maybe you'll get a unit with a snappy name or a cool patch. If he wants to learn to shoot he should join the Army, after all there shooting team has been pounding the Marines for the last few years.

Easy there dirt pounder...  It's easy to field a hard team when the pool you're choosing from is 3 times the size of the team you're shooting against.   CWO Demille won the NRA HP Championship and GySgt Watson won the NRA Service rifle Championship last year.  Both Marines....  

Go ahead and tell me how Anderson won the CMP service rifle championship.  You always got that.

Football player or not quit thinking small.... remember 3 miles is to only for the PFT (only a USMC standard test).  start setting your goals higher... dont worry right now about running 18 min 3 mile (although it would be nice) but you need to start building up to distances such as 8mi to 10mi runs.  get your endurance up and speed will soon come to your 3 mile pace.

As far as range work... YA you dont want to build bad habits..BUT it is OK to familiarize yourself with the weapons systems you will be using.

But if you have any questions still before you leave.... well then dont worry, your DI's will teach you!

Semper FI and good luck

Yes, Semper Fi and Good Luck.

Quoted: I'm surprised to hear that they don't shoot in OCS!  When I was at Quantico last summer I would see the candidates snapping in for hours.  I didn't actually see them shoot because we were using the ranges for the inter-service championships but I would assume that if they are snapping in they will also shoot live rounds.

Actually those were most likely TBS guys.  OCS doesn't make it to the west side of base(west of 95) for anything.  However, as a TBS lieutenant you are treated at a level only slightly higher than a candidate, so I can understand why you might have confused them with candidates.

As for advice, SIMPLYDYNAMIC was dead center on that one and I'm disappointed that I didn't think to mention that earlier.  I'd recommend at the min running 4 miles, but also run 3 mile days for time, just so you get use to how to pace yourself.  If you get use to running 4-5 miles, running 3 will be a breeze.  Plus, there are hardly any runs at OCS that are only 3 miles, so you may as well try to get use to that too.
On another note, there are probably no more than 5 runs at OCS that are in PT gear(that's including initial and final PFT).  Everything else is in at least boots and utes, so do yourself a favor and run in something more than just PT gear, asuming you don't have boots and utes.
As for pull ups, here's the easiest thing to do.  Jump on the bar, do 2 perfect pull ups, jump down.  Do 10 perfect push ups,  Shake out your arms, catch your breath, then jump on the bar and do 4 perfect pull ups.  Dismount, do 10 push ups, etc etc.  Start off doing a pull up pyramid of 2, 4, 6, 4, 2, with 10 push ups in between each.  If that is becoming easy, bump it up to 2,4,6,8,6,4,2, with 10 push ups in between each.  Once that becomes easy, go to 2,4,6,8,10,8,6,4,2, with 10 push ups between each.  If you get to that point, you'll be to the point of being able to do 25-30 pull ups at once(that's where I was).  If you do those pyramids once a day, 5-6 days a week, you'll notice a difference pretty quickly.  It doesn't take very long to do, and you shouldn't be sweating too much when you do it, so you can do it just about any time you have an extra 15 minutes during the day.

Whats TBS and what are utes?

Boots and BDU trou = Boots and Utes

I'm going summer of 2007 due to a jaw injury, and as far as the running is concerned... 16:32 3 mile...

just gotta work on those darned pullups.

Quoted: Whats TBS and what are utes?

TBS is The Basic School, where new 2nd LTs go for 6 months, comparable to enlisted boot camp. Learn all the basics for being a rifleman, learn MOUT, MCMAP, tactics, weapons, leadership, you get your MOS assigned, and other things. Then after that you go to your MOS school to learn your specific job.

Sorry for the complete hijack, but what is the swimming program at OCS and TBS like?


Thanks
PJ

as far as i know (havent been to OCS yet) there is none. at TBS, you are required to pass a swim qual, im not sure what class you have pass, i think it might be 1st class, or 2nd class swim qual. there are 4 classes i think, i am a 2nd (we dont have a 1st class qualified instructor here) and it wasnt that hard of a qual, i am not THAT strong of a swimmer. you have to swim i think 50 meters 4 times, using 4 different strokes, jump from a 10 foot tower into the water and show the proper form for jumping a ship, make a flotation device from your utlilites, and do back and front floats for 5 minutes. dont quote me tho, thats just from memory and im not sure if thats 100% correct.

I second all the suggestions that you drop everything you can, stop worrying about things you cannot change and become a PT stud.  

Being able to get a 1st class PFT is easy.  You should be able to do it every time.  You are expected to.  

Your Marines, if you make it, will demand that you are able to outdo them in everything that you do.  If you fall out of a run, or can't hang during a hump, you will never ever gain their respect.  Without their respect you will never effectively lead them into harms way.

Marines that respect their leaders will go out of their way to please them.  This pays off a hundred-fold because it will be your responsibility to train them and prepare them for war.

July is right around the corner.  Every day thinking that the weight will drop off after school or I can run extra tomorrow will haunt you.  I'm not suggesting that this is what you are doing - but, it is easy to feel complacent.

Good luck.

There is no swimming at OCS.  There is plenty of crawling through disgusting muddy water with snakes in it, and the ford is about chest deep, but no actual swimming.  You do the standard run of the mill Marine Corps swim qual at TBS, and everyone has to qual at least WS-2.  Those who are going to be pilots/nfo's have to qual WS-1 before they can go to Pensacola.  I don't have the specifics on hand of what each level of swim qual entails, but I didn't find it that particularly difficult.  WS-1 is a whole nother ball game though since that involves the instructors taking you underwater and you have to get out of their grip and rescue them.  Not many people get WS-1, and almost no one gets WSQ.  Basically if you go to TBS as a ground contract, you won't get WS-1 unless you are hellbent on getting it, which means going after hours in your extra time to get it done.  Since swim quals are done early in TBS, your extra/free time is extremely limited.  Swim quals don't really mean much for officers anyway, so as long as you get -2, then you're good.

First question, which program are you going for? Juniors/Seniors/Combined?

I went to Combined last summer, dropped week 7 with a stress fracture and shitty run times.

I contracted with a 23:30; ran a 22:30 on my intermediate PFT and was the slowest candidate in my company.

I'm headed back for the October class. Currently running a 22:30 (fell off the horse a while after my injury).

They switched CO's in December, but the program is still pretty much the same. You will run an assload. If you can't do 20 pullups it's not going to matter a whole lot, but if you can't keep up in the runs you'll be in a world of trouble.

One of the newer innovations is that you do run in sneakers a lot more, for us (10-weekers) up until week 5, in a transition period. This was one of Col Rachal's innovations to reduce injuries (previously, up to half the company would NPQ for stress fractures). However, all your exams are done in boots and utes.

Your goal now (assuming you've been selected), is not to run an 18:00 on your best day(though it's a good indicator of success). Your goal is to run a 22:00 pace on your worst day - tired, sore, sleep-deprived, carrying a rifle and 2 canteens, up and down hills. Start putting more miles on your feet and get to the point where you can run consistently every day.

Oh, and find a hill to work and run that mercilessly. There are some fun hills at OCS. You will curse the name Da Nang.

You won't swim, and the only time you'll shoot is with blanks while assaulting a hill.

OK, I actually have went through OCS so I will give you my advice.

First, it goes without saying you had better start getting in the best shape of your life.  Pretty simple - get off the couch and run.  

More important, you had really better start getting your mental game together.  Fitness is all great and wonderful, but I know plenty of guys who could run like they were from Africa, but they washed out.  All you really need to know about OCS is this: IT IS ALL A MENTAL GAME.  

You really need to start thinking about what you are going to endure. It is no cake walk.  Someone else is going to own you for 24 hours a day.  Someone else will tell you when to eat, shit, shower, shave, and sleep.  This is not something that is easy to adjust to.  Plus, this isn't regualr bootcamp.  You are training to be an Officer, and all Officer jokes aside, this is a huge responsibility.  Leadership is damn hard, and extremely stressfull.  You are going to be put in very tough positions while at OCS to test you as a leader, and it is a lot harder being in front leading a formation that it is to just be marching in one.  

You are going to be sooooo damn far out of your comfort zone it isn't funny.  A lot of guys get all wrapped up in the " I can run 12 miles, in 30 minutes and do 200 pushups non-stop yada yada yda crap" that they don't focus on what is really important.  Everyday you need to take some time and think abut all the challenges you are going to face, and start preparing yourself mentally to handle them.

After OCS, you will still have another wonderfull 6 months of training that all Marine Officers go through.  Again, the fitness will come.  You can't help but gety in shape when you run your ass off morning to night.  Just get ready mentally for the experience.  Prepare yourself now that life is going to be miserable, and thats ok.  Plenty have done it before you, and it could always be worse.  

MMX said somet hings that got my attention.

I'm on the Army side of the house and don't know how USMC OCS is set up, but if you are doing any sorts of runs in boots than feet toughening is one more thing to start asking about.  I'd ask the experts here about that but if you have nice soft civilian feet you need to toughen em up a little.  If I'm off, pls adjust my fire anyone.  

In the 82nd, the expectation was for 90% of an infantry battalion to do 5 milers in 40:00.  An officer to fall out of that - career suicide if it ever happened. Don't think it ever did. But privates on up did it.  

I'd recommend cranking on up to 5 and 6 milers -once a week, do some quarter miles in 1:30 to 1:40 pace, or whatever your goal is, and then crank the rest interval down.  Stuff like that.  Once you get your speed up, then 3-6 miles a day for the next 20 years of your life is about right.

Think endurance. Physical and mental.  If sleep deprivation is part of the game, then if you like caffeine, nicotine, and sugar, STOP.  Get your body used to going without.

I'm heading to Marine OCS this summer too - my OSO told me that the only shooting you do at OCS is shooting blanks from the hip while running up a hill like a bunch of cowboys... For now I'm just concentrating on PT...  weapons training comes later at TBS

Practice HUMPING. Boots, utes, kevlar, rifle, and a 40lb pack in the stinking red flag heat and humidity will absolutely kick your ass unless you're ready for it. The priors (including an E5) in my platoon got the shock of their lives when we geared up for our first hump. Humping is not a walk in the woods, it is fast, fast, fast - as fast as you can move without breaking into a run. If you don't have shin splints now, you will have them after a couple of humps. You also need to toughen up your feet, or the blisters will get you good. And if you have to carry the stretcher - we'll, just be ready for it.

Practice drinking a quart of water, then another quart of water, without throwing up. Start memorizing all the factual crap in your little green book (chain of command, general orders, etc) so you don't have to expend mental energy on this stuff when you get to OCS. Get used to writing everything down in your little notebook and get in the frame of mind that you need to gather things to you (information, names, etc), not wait for it to be fed to you.

+1 about not hitting the gym - work on moving your own weight around. Most of the PT at OCS is strength to weight - there is no weightlifting per se. Get used to activity in heat and humidity.

Just arrive physically fit. mentall sharp, and with a good attitude. Nothing in the program is insurmountable (not even the leadership essays) if you keep your wits about you.

Lot of good advice here I'm just going to parrot, as one who prepared but was medically unfit to go not too long ago.

1. the mental game is the most important.  At the minimum, you need to be thinking Full Metal Jacket.  In reality, it's not really like that, and in some ways it's much tougher.

2. Humps.   Get an Alice Pack and frame (I actually have a pack that I don't need, if you want it), load it/yourself up with 70lbs. of weight, get some boots (my recommendation: a copy of whatever they issue you; do they still issue those gawdawful all-leather black ones?), and start humping in your local national forests.  Go up high mountains.  

Also, ideally you should be able to do a 10 mile roadside hump with all that stuff in no more than 3 hours.  

3. PT: the closer you are to being able to max the PFT on any given day, the better you'll be.   Beyond that, endurance and especially upper body endurance is important.