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Posted: 12/15/2005 3:58:27 PM EDT
OK, this is *kind of* a fake out. The question is sincere but I have no idea who has them readily available.

So, the point of this thread is for people who would like to have one and what they would be willing to pay for a stripped lower. Post here. Then we can forward this thread to the many manufacuturers to demonstrate the demand. Let's make this 10+ page thread!

I'll take one and I'd be willing topay up to $300.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 4:07:24 PM EDT
You can buy the real thing it will cost you between $15,000-20,000. For that kind of money I'm sure you can get a builder to fasion you a few! Unfortunately I don't think they will have the happy swithch!
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 4:33:11 PM EDT
Come on over here to the Philippines and you can get an original Colt M16A1 lower for around $300, and it comes with the happy switch.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 4:34:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 4:41:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
17 page thread that started on 04/04/05



I was following that. That whole thing went into the crapper I guess. Hopefully, this board can demonstrate enough demand that someone else will consider it worthwhile.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:36:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By silentweapon338:
You can buy the real thing it will cost you between $15,000-20,000. For that kind of money I'm sure you can get a builder to fasion you a few! Unfortunately I don't think they will have the happy swithch!



They arent that high yet... Mint or unfired Colt factory M16A2 might come close to that..
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:39:21 PM EDT
Ive seen mint A1s for that money.Id love an A1 type lower for a 653 carbine clone build.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:55:31 PM EDT
Poll added.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:26:22 PM EDT
I voted yes, but not for $300....
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:30:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
I voted yes, but not for $300....


Well, what would you be willing to go?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:35:07 AM EDT
around $150-200
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:56:01 AM EDT
And they had better be "authentic" and "mil-spec", too!
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:43:14 AM EDT
I'd settle for any lower as long as it was made before 9/94 and is offered at a reasonable price. That's one unfortunate fact of living on the wrong side of the iron curtain.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:49:32 AM EDT
They must be A1 forgings also, not some reworked A2.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 8:49:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 3:05:03 PM EDT by Stickman]
I would be happy with another of these.....


Link Posted: 12/16/2005 9:00:46 AM EDT
I would definately be interested in one if you could:
A. Make them ACTUALLY TO A1 SPEC and not halfway and then offer the extra machining for $25 extra.
B. A reasonable price that you'll STICK TO and not change by about $15-20 at the end (say..$150-200 as someone else said).
C. Produce M16A1 style, XM16E1 style (with no mag fence, just the front detent recess), and slabside SP1 lowers for around the same price.

And of course not have the money go to some unknown place and then change the place the money goes to...
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:41:32 PM EDT
I would be definately be interested in them. Also, if you want to speed up this process, you might want to send manufactures a link to the ASA pages, that are very very long, and that would also show them the interest in a TRUE TO SPEC M16A1/XM16E1/SP1 style semi auto lower.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:45:00 PM EDT
also, 150-200 would seem reasonable for such a lower reciever. More than that if it was made from an A1 forging...
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:51:40 PM EDT
Another yes vote.

But in the $150 - $200 range. Preferably made from A1 forgings. If not, then a damned close copy without breaking the upper price limit.

If fact, I would like an A1 and a partial rail lower.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:59:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
I owuld be happy wit another of these.....


img511.imageshack.us/img511/2402/pc1507158001af.jpg



Stickman,

May I enquire about the origin of the item in the picture? I am as intrigued by the semi-auto A1 lower as I am by the unusual windage knob.

Thanks,

Greg
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:21:38 PM EDT
I'd like to have a couple.......
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:57:02 PM EDT
I want a A1 Upper! new and black.
And inexpensive!
I can live with modern lowers... it is the upper that I want.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 3:54:12 AM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 4:05:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CB1:
I want a A1 Upper! new and black.
And inexpensive!
I can live with modern lowers... it is the upper that I want.




fulton armory has what you are looking for.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 4:06:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GKielbasa:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
I owuld be happy wit another of these.....


img511.imageshack.us/img511/2402/pc1507158001af.jpg



Stickman,

May I enquire about the origin of the item in the picture? I am as intrigued by the semi-auto A1 lower as I am by the unusual windage knob.

Thanks,

Greg



the windage wheel is a replacement that bushmaster along with others sell that replace the original a1 wind. wheel to ease adjustments
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 4:14:14 AM EDT
Just as long as ASA has nothing to do with it.....
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 6:36:45 AM EDT
Something happened to those A1 lowers that Colt-653 had. We know there were at least two made ;)
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:16:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By CB1:
I want a A1 Upper! new and black.
And inexpensive!
I can live with modern lowers... it is the upper that I want.




fulton armory has what you are looking for.



got one, but they are "A0" or C7.. I want a A1
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:53:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
They must be A1 forgings also, not some reworked A2.




Given that, if the job is done right, you wouldn't have a clue what the raw forging looked like, why would you care what forging hd been used?

I don't think you can use that recent failed experiment at ASA as a true test. They just didn't get the job done right. Using A1 forgings would likely take a multiple thousand order to the forge, and I just don't think there are that many potential customers out there

In the meantime, after the ASA disaster I went ahead w/my early type M16 lower project on a DPMS piece, and it's now at the to be painted stage. The A1 lower on a Rock River loer was finished several montha ago.

Best I can tell, if you want an early lower, buy a current job and either pay someone a months salary to machine it down, or do it yourself.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:58:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CB1:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By CB1:
I want a A1 Upper! new and black.
And inexpensive!
I can live with modern lowers... it is the upper that I want.




fulton armory has what you are looking for.



got one, but they are "A0" or C7.. I want a A1




Sorry brother, but I think you're SOL on an A1 upper, new and black. Mil surp early color is the best you can hope for, with a can of Norrells for coloring.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 1:17:36 PM EDT
I would still like to hear from Colt-653 on what happened to his A1 lower project.

When he returned my payment also included was a note saying the lowers would be ready by mid december.

Well.............Here we are in mid december and nothing!

Does anyone know if his A1 lower project is officially dead?

Link Posted: 12/18/2005 2:02:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shamayim:

Originally Posted By scottryan:
They must be A1 forgings also, not some reworked A2.




Given that, if the job is done right, you wouldn't have a clue what the raw forging looked like, why would you care what forging hd been used?

I don't think you can use that recent failed experiment at ASA as a true test. They just didn't get the job done right. Using A1 forgings would likely take a multiple thousand order to the forge, and I just don't think there are that many potential customers out there

In the meantime, after the ASA disaster I went ahead w/my early type M16 lower project on a DPMS piece, and it's now at the to be painted stage. The A1 lower on a Rock River loer was finished several montha ago.

Best I can tell, if you want an early lower, buy a current job and either pay someone a months salary to machine it down, or do it yourself.



Yeah I would be able to tell. There is no way anybody can mill out the rear reinforement area and have it look smooth with all the contours like an original A1.

Link Posted: 12/18/2005 3:01:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By shamayim:

Originally Posted By scottryan:
They must be A1 forgings also, not some reworked A2.




Given that, if the job is done right, you wouldn't have a clue what the raw forging looked like, why would you care what forging hd been used?

I don't think you can use that recent failed experiment at ASA as a true test. They just didn't get the job done right. Using A1 forgings would likely take a multiple thousand order to the forge, and I just don't think there are that many potential customers out there

In the meantime, after the ASA disaster I went ahead w/my early type M16 lower project on a DPMS piece, and it's now at the to be painted stage. The A1 lower on a Rock River loer was finished several montha ago.

Best I can tell, if you want an early lower, buy a current job and either pay someone a months salary to machine it down, or do it yourself.



Yeah I would be able to tell. There is no way anybody can mill out the rear reinforement area and have it look smooth with all the contours like an original A1.




Wanna bet?

Of course, you have to do it by hand, w/various size files; and it helps to have an SP1 lower to compare---and have the patience to spend a couple of weeks doing a little at a time. But it can be done. When I finish the early piece, get the use of a digital camera, and figure out how to post pics on the internet, I'll put up some pics.

I do agree though, that mass production w/machine tools will be a bear, but that's just another reason why I consider the prospect of anyone putting out early type lowers ranges from slim to none.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 3:09:40 PM EDT
I'd love one or two A1 style lowers. I'd also like a slab side. I had really hoped that Colt-653 would come through.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 3:55:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FlyingLead:
I'd love one or two A1 style lowers. I'd also like a slab side. I had really hoped that Colt-653 would come through.



I would love a slab side. I was thinking of something along the lines of an XM177 with 16'' barrel and slip over flash hider, and an M16A1 or XM16E1 lower would have been more realistic, but I just love the SP1 Carbine look, and would prefer a slab side.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:53:08 AM EDT
Anybody else want to comment?

I don't think this thread demonstrates enough demand (yet) to interest a potential manufacturer.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:00:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Anybody else want to comment?

I don't think this thread demonstrates enough demand (yet) to interest a potential manufacturer.




Nor do I think it will. Too many people want too many different things. No sooner does a thread like this start, than you've got people asking for something different.

It kills any chance of seeing it.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:35:08 AM EDT
let it die... no one cares about us little people
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:23:38 PM EDT
Wow, I missed the whole ASA episode. On the bright side, my life didn't come to crashing end because of it.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:48:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brushdog:
Wow, I missed the whole ASA episode. On the bright side, my life didn't come to crashing end because of it.


Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:59:25 PM EDT
Too bad theres the import ban with china.They make an A1 clone a buddy of mine in canada has one.Also since the A2 lower with improvements is now spec there should be an A1 TDP floating around somewhere.They shouldnt cost any more than an A2 type as it does not have all the reinforcements.If the chineese can figure out how to make an A1 clone Im sure someone in this country can as well.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 2:32:33 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 9:39:22 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:10:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 9:19:13 AM EDT by Essayons]
I would pay $200 for a good A1 lower from A1 forgings, maybe more if it came from a reputable major manufacturer.

IMO there is a market for A1-style rifles out there. Lot's of guys in their peak earning years who served in the '70s and '80s would buy an A1-style rifle for sentimental value. I just wish a major manufacturer would step up to the plate. Volume production of lowers for A1-clones would bring the cost of loers down for use do-it-yourselfers.

I'd love to see an A1-style rifle with an optional chrome-lined 4150 pencil barrel with a 5.56 chamber and 1x9 twist. That would maintain the A1 looks, but give the user more flexibility with respect to ammo.

BTW, Colt-653 replied to one of my emails and said he would be posting something soon. He had sent the lowers back to a machine shop in WA (Gig Harbor, IIRC) for additional machining. IMO that pretty much confirms they were from A2 forgings. As I said, I'd prefer A1 forgings, but I would "settle" for an A1 lower from A2 forgings as long as it met A1 specs and looked like an A1 lower.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 11:42:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 11:44:17 AM EDT by Essayons]

Originally Posted By CB1:
I want a A1 Upper! new and black.
And inexpensive!
I can live with modern lowers... it is the upper that I want.



CB1, I assume you've seen CDNN's unfired M16A1 uppers? I've got one and it is sweet. It would be pretty easy to refinish an A2 lower to match with grayish black Moly Resin.

"GRAYISH-BLACK Flat
Dark gray-black coloration with a flat appearance. This duplicates the appearance of the early original Colt AR-15/M-16 finish. This is the same product that is purchased from us by the U.S. Military to refinish Colt M-16's."
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 11:54:09 AM EDT
10 to 1 that the milspec A1 forgings have been destroyed.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:24:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Essayons:
BTW, Colt-653 replied to one of my emails and said he would be posting something soon. He had sent the lowers back to a machine shop in WA (Gig Harbor, IIRC) for additional machining. IMO that pretty much confirms they were from A2 forgings. As I said, I'd prefer A1 forgings, but I would "settle" for an A1 lower from A2 forgings as long as it met A1 specs and looked like an A1 lower.


Too bad Aimless won't let him post anything unless his machinist pays this site. I guess that's what happens when you tell people it's an A1 when it was an A2 originally.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:35:46 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:32:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Essayons:
I would pay $200 for a good A1 lower from A1 forgings, maybe more if it came from a reputable major manufacturer.

IMO there is a market for A1-style rifles out there. Lot's of guys in their peak earning years who served in the '70s and '80s would buy an A1-style rifle for sentimental value. I just wish a major manufacturer would step up to the plate. Volume production of lowers for A1-clones would bring the cost of loers down for use do-it-yourselfers.




+1
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:07:09 PM EDT
Do *all* the AR "manufacturers" source their lowers from the same plant? Is this why there is such a problem getting a different forging?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:02:35 PM EDT
A new forging die would have to be cut. Big $$$ and possibly not enough demand.
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