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Posted: 10/20/2003 8:09:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2003 12:21:05 PM EDT by Dolomite]
This topic was originally titled:
A Star is Born: Muhammad's AR Coming to a TV Near You Soon

...but now I'm not so sure that this was the gun used.




Link Posted: 10/20/2003 8:12:29 AM EDT
Do ya think it would've killed them to at least lock the bolt back on that thing - at least try and show a modicum of firearm safety?
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 8:17:18 AM EDT
Dang! I had heard he was using a scope and was curious to know what it was... Its an EoTech!
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 8:30:51 AM EDT
We can clearly see here though, that the AWB is working, as he was forced to use a 10 round mag. Imagine the carnage had he had a 30 rounder. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 8:32:02 AM EDT
So that is the actual AR used? Has a Yankee Hill three rail gas block on it also. But I still swear that I saw a clip, when they were captured, of an AR being removed from the car they were in, that had a thumbhole stock on it.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 10:18:00 AM EDT
Wait till the Wolfmann from CNN gets ahold if this story...
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 10:32:36 AM EDT
I wonder how many threads will get started by people wanting to dress up their next AR like this one... "Where can I get a gas block like that?" "What length barrel for my DC Sniper clone upper?" etc. *sigh*
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 10:34:28 AM EDT
No fewer than say the number of people wanting to build a "Kennedy" gun out of an old Carcano.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 10:54:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dolomite: No fewer than say the number of people wanting to build a "Kennedy" gun out of an old Carcano.
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I want to build a car to drive over the bridges near my house...ohhh, wrong Kennedy. Never mind.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 11:48:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2003 11:51:26 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
Thank god that thing didn't have an evil flash hider! Otherwise we would've never caught them in the middle of firing it.. oh wait, we didn't. Well atleast it only had a 10 round mag so they couldn't shoot more than 10 people at a time.. oh wait, they shot 1 at a time. Well, atleast it didn't have a bayonett lug because I am SURE they would've used it instead of the rifle @ 100+ yards away, right? Wonder why they didn't use a bolt action rifle? Because they're sympathetic with the terrorists. Killing us, yeah they like that. Getting us to ban our own weapons ownership? They love that.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 12:41:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2003 12:50:13 PM EDT by Lockedon]
Has anyone else seen that piece of shit the USA Network has crapped out recently? 23 Days Of Fear? Looks nothing like it does it? Fucking bastards, I hope they both (beltway snipers)burn either in hell or on the chair. Both would be ideal.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 12:55:15 PM EDT
Better get ready, EOtech and Yankee Hill will be next in the round of lawsuits. I heard one of them just fired their lawyers and is representing himself. Morons.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 1:25:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 1:45:21 PM EDT
Excuse me if it has already been discussed, but I recall news accounts stating that there was something improper with the records of the dealer that sold this gun, that maybe it was stolen or otherwise un-accounted for. Does anyone know what happened with the dealer?
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 1:46:52 PM EDT
More bad press for honest gun owners and more ammo for the liberal democrat gun grabers .when they take away all our guns and the killing and robbing is done with a knife how will we eat a steak ?
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 1:52:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2003 1:54:22 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Originally Posted By Hawkeye: Imagine the carnage had he had an [i]Aimpoint[/i]
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Sorry, couldnt resist [;)]
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 1:54:16 PM EDT
So now we know what kind of scope he used. I still want to know what kind of ammo it was.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 2:01:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson: So now we know what kind of scope he used. I still want to know what kind of ammo it was.
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WHY?
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 2:20:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2003 2:27:06 PM EDT by 556Cliff]
Troy, the rifle used in the movie had a flat top upper, the scope was on the A2 mount attached to the detachable carry handle, and it had an STD FSB. Their are some pics of the rifle over at www.AWbansunset.com. 556Cliff
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 2:49:29 PM EDT
Tee hee, sorry to Hijack, but I was looking at a link from AWbansunset.com and found this http://www.banassaultweapons.org/the_problems_and_the_players/ Look at the AK at the bottom. Is it just me, or does the "preban" look like an Armie Jager [sp?] .22?
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 3:47:38 PM EDT
Nah thats a [b]pos[/b]! ARMSCOR ak clone The Armi-Jaeger are much much better quality The armscor is just a pot metal shell over a tubular receiver. Ther Armi-Jaeger is basically just a ak with a different mag well and bolt and barrel.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 5:26:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lockedon: Has anyone else seen that piece of shit the USA Network has crapped out recently? 23 Days Of Fear? Looks nothing like it does it? Fucking bastards, I hope they both (beltway snipers)burn either in hell or on the chair. Both would be ideal.
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That movie was garbage.I turned it off after an hour.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 5:31:28 PM EDT
Just what law abiding gun owners need a bunch of folks who don't know the first thing about firearms or firarms safety flashing around an AR for the press who know even less about firearms. I wonder how many people that lawyer swept with the muzzle when he ws parading around teh courtroom.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 5:44:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By Hawkeye: Imagine the carnage had he had an [i]Aimpoint[/i]
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Sorry, couldnt resist [;)]
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Or worse still a Trijicon ACOG....
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 6:57:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2003 7:07:27 PM EDT by Bang]
I wonder if they even emptied the mag first? DA running around in court with a loaded AR. Too bad it didn't have a pink stock. That would have looked great in court and on TV. Is this the rifle you used to kill all those people? Ya that's it the evil looking pink one.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 8:54:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Redbone:
Originally Posted By Lockedon: Has anyone else seen that piece of shit the USA Network has crapped out recently? 23 Days Of Fear? Looks nothing like it does it? Fucking bastards, I hope they both (beltway snipers)burn either in hell or on the chair. Both would be ideal.
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That movie was garbage.I turned it off after an hour.
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You guys must not have watched the same movie I did. Like Troy said it wasn't even that bad. I think they mentioned the name Bushmaster only twice and there wasn't any one part of the movie that got hung up on how evil the gun they used was. The rifle might not have been an accurate copy of what they used but they didn't portray it in any bad way. They used a Bushmaster and that's what the movie said. I thought it was going to be pure garbage too but all it was really about is how these two faggots struck fear into our communities and the police couldn't really do anything about it. It also helped the anti's obtain more ammunition to destroy our rights but what else is new.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 10:35:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bang: I wonder if they even emptied the mag first? DA running around in court with a loaded AR. Too bad it didn't have a pink stock. That would have looked great in court and on TV. Is this the rifle you used to kill all those people? Ya that's it the evil looking pink one.
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[ROFL2] Pink Stock!
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 10:39:48 PM EDT
That doesn't look like a Bushmaster. Maybe it is a Gunshow special with a Bushy lower. The barrel looks like a DPMS to me.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 10:48:20 PM EDT
Maybe Bushmaster will do a [b]DC Sniper Configuration Group Purchase[/b]. Who's in!?
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 3:38:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2003 3:56:58 AM EDT by blueshockey]
[url]http://www.newsandobserver.com/collections/print/front_pdf/1-A-Tue-October-21-03.pdf[/url] The following is from the News and Observer... Willet is an assistant commonwealth attorney... [i]"To dramatize the importance of the weapon, Willett began his presentation by pulling a similar rifle, a civilian version of the military's M-16, from a bag, assembling it before the jury. For several minutes, the court-room was silent except for the clicking sound of parts snapping together"[/i] So where's the real rifle?? Was that the actual one in the first pic of this thread? Nothing but text in this newspaper.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 4:56:00 AM EDT
Seems I saww something last night in the news about the lawyer "showing a rifle like the one used in the shooting". So, if this is not the actual rifle, who's is it? The lawyers own AR? Or did the state buy one and dress it up for the lawyer? I still say I saw a thumbhole stock on a rifle pulled out of that blue car.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 6:54:42 AM EDT
In an AP story this morning, they printed a photograph from the court room, of Muhhammad handling a "rifle sight telescope". It appears to be a variable scope with target knobs.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 7:07:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2003 7:15:49 AM EDT by stuh505]
he used a Bushmaster XM15-E2S A3 according to these websites and countless others: [url]http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901021111-386925,00.html[/url] [url]http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2712[/url] [url]http://www.columbiapoliticalreview.com/archives/12-02/article005.shtml[/url] [url]http://www.hk94.com/weblog/index.php?cat=1[/url] [url]http://tzaddik.us/lilpoh/archives/000638.html[/url] [url]http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2003/jan/02/world/20030102wor2.html[/url] also, that he used a 55gr cartridge, for whoever that dude was who wanted to know exactly what kind of ammo....why... [img]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/Images/pcwa3s20.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa3s20.asp[/url]
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 7:08:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bang: I wonder if they even emptied the mag first? DA running around in court with a loaded AR.
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Having some personal experience seeing DA's with firearms in court I can say that: 1. The DA's I saw didn't know anything about firearms except what the 'firearm's expert witness' told them. 2. They are smart enough to have the bailiff check the weapon to make sure it's clear before parade-ing the thing around the courtroom. Which they liked to do for maximum dramatic effect. I was somewhat amused that the 'firearm's expert' who testified on the stand didn't know why triggers have some distance of travel before dropping the hammer!!! The guy was all book knowledge.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 7:43:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson: So now we know what kind of scope he used. I still want to know what kind of ammo it was.
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[rumor]I heard that they used Wolf ammo and could only get off one shot at a time because their Bushmaster kept jamming.[/rumor] [peep] CHRIS
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 8:41:17 AM EDT
Is there some kind of problem with wanting to know what kind of ammo he used? When the shootings were going on, there was quite a bit of speculation around here about that. Funny, whenever someone comes back from Iraq or Afghanistan, someone always asks how their weapons performed. Same thing - despite how this assclown used his rifle, he got good performance out of the ammo, so I want to know what he used. Big effin' deal.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 8:45:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By blueshockey: [url]http://www.newsandobserver.com/collections/print/front_pdf/1-A-Tue-October-21-03.pdf[/url] The following is from the News and Observer... Willet is an assistant commonwealth attorney... [i]"To dramatize the importance of the weapon, Willett began his presentation by pulling a similar rifle, a civilian version of the military's M-16, from a bag, assembling it before the jury. For several minutes, the court-room was silent except for the clicking sound of parts snapping together"[/i] So where's the real rifle?? Was that the actual one in the first pic of this thread? Nothing but text in this newspaper.
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That can't be a Bushmaster in the picture, it's not purple! [:D] Dirk
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 9:03:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TopCrest: Maybe Bushmaster will do a [b]DC Sniper Configuration Group Purchase[/b]. Who's in!?
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I love black humor. [image]http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/armed/kill.gif[/image] .
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 9:06:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson: Is there some kind of problem with wanting to know what kind of ammo he used? When the shootings were going on, there was quite a bit of speculation around here about that. Funny, whenever someone comes back from Iraq or Afghanistan, someone always asks how their weapons performed. Same thing - despite how this assclown used his rifle, he got good performance out of the ammo, so I want to know what he used. Big effin' deal.
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If it turned out to be Wolf would you go out and buy a bunch of it for self defence? [:\]
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 9:07:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Feedingcannibal:
Originally Posted By TopCrest: Maybe Bushmaster will do a [b]DC Sniper Configuration Group Purchase[/b]. Who's in!?
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I love black humor. [image]http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/armed/kill.gif[/image] .
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Black humor or dark humor? [>:/]
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 9:49:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:
Originally Posted By eswanson: Is there some kind of problem with wanting to know what kind of ammo he used? When the shootings were going on, there was quite a bit of speculation around here about that. Funny, whenever someone comes back from Iraq or Afghanistan, someone always asks how their weapons performed. Same thing - despite how this assclown used his rifle, he got good performance out of the ammo, so I want to know what he used. Big effin' deal.
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If it turned out to be Wolf would you go out and buy a bunch of it for self defence? [:\]
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[rolleyes] Get all hot and bothered about the optics and the configuration of the rifel, but God forbid you're interested in the ammo. Whatever.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 10:05:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2003 11:54:48 AM EDT by LoginName]
Originally Posted By Delta6: In an AP story this morning, they printed a photograph from the court room, of Muhhammad handling a "rifle sight telescope". It appears to be a variable scope with target knobs.
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This one? [img]http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20031021/i/r296451037.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 10:10:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By blueshockey: [url]http://www.newsandobserver.com/collections/print/front_pdf/1-A-Tue-October-21-03.pdf[/url] The following is from the News and Observer... Willet is an assistant commonwealth attorney... [i]"To dramatize the importance of the weapon, Willett began his presentation by pulling a similar rifle, a civilian version of the military's M-16, from a bag, assembling it before the jury. For several minutes, the court-room was silent except for the clicking sound of parts snapping together"[/i] So where's the real rifle?? Was that the actual one in the first pic of this thread? Nothing but text in this newspaper.
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Conflicting news reports (nahhh, can't be possible). [url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/ts/063003sniper&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=&e=13&a=0&t=&prev=12[/url] "Prince William County Prosecutor James Willett displays the weapon used in the sniper shootings during opening arguments of the trial of sniper suspect John Allen Muhammad at the Virginia Beach Circuit Court."
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 11:25:37 AM EDT
[b]OMG!!! [shock] It's a SEMIAUTOMATIC MACHINEGUN!!![/b]
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 11:49:57 AM EDT
[b]Everybody run!!![/b] DA on the loose, DA on the loose, DA on the loose!! [:(!]
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 11:55:59 AM EDT
I used to be a prosecutor, and I can say with a pretty high degree of confidence that I was the only one of about 40 attorneys in my office that even had a clue about which end of the gun the bullets come out of. At least this guy knew how to put one together. Most of the attorneys I worked with didn't even like touching the guns we used as evidence. I loved it; I used to go hang out in the evidence room at the local PD just to fondle all the guns.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 12:18:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson: Is there some kind of problem with wanting to know what kind of ammo he used? When the shootings were going on, there was quite a bit of speculation around here about that. Same thing - despite how this assclown used his rifle, he got good performance out of the ammo, so I want to know what he used.
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I want to know as well. Granted, a head shot with anything will kill, I want to know for other reasons. How was the forensics capable of determinig all were fired from the same weapon? I've shot hogs in the head with a .30 cal Ballistic tip and there wasn't enough metal to be seen, much less find tool marks. If they used FMJ there would be a good bullet to sample. If soft pointed, less. If a ballistic tip, maybe nothing after striking the skull.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 12:47:51 PM EDT
[rumor]I heard that they used Wolf ammo and could only get off one shot at a time because their Bushmaster kept jamming.[/rumor] [peep] CHRIS [/quote] Thats some funny stuff!
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 1:24:02 PM EDT
OH MY GAWD! In LoginName's post, above his picture is the EVIL BLUE Magellan GPS MAP 330!!! I have one of those! And I have a ghillie suit too! And a gun! I think I'll go hide under my bed.....
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 1:25:15 PM EDT
The attorney put the rifle together in front of the court? Lol. What theatrics. I'm sure it played well on the fears that many people have about these weapons. I'm sure that anyone witnessing this hearing that was undecided on their opinion about Assault weapons has now decided forever against them based on the feeling they had watching that act.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 3:20:12 PM EDT
Now I seriously doubt that the rifle the DA is holding is the real sniper rifle. As dangerous as the real one is, I would think they would have to lace it up in a straight jacket, strap it to a dolly and lock a muzzle across it's......muzzle? After all, AR15's are dangerous and unpredictable and this one has a history.
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