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Posted: 9/12/2003 10:18:21 AM EDT
I read a thread awhile back that has distressed me somewhat. The question was something similar to "What would you grab in a SHTF situation?" So many AR Fans responded by saying that they would grab AKs, Garands, M1A's, FAL's etc. Certainly not the responses I expected to read.
so, in a crisis, what would you choose, an AR or an FAL, and why?
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 10:32:35 AM EDT
Having more than one of each, I am tempted to say "both" [:D] but since you seem serious here, I will say the AR hands down IF I have to hump it as well as enough ammo to last awhile. I can carry 1000rd. of 5.56 along with other stuff a ways if I absolutely have to (won't be a picnic, for sure) but have you ever tried to lug 1000rd. of 7.62x51? Having said that, the exact scenario would, of course, have great influence on the choice. In a static position where I was on the defense, my full size FAL "Death Stick" would surely be a comfort.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 10:33:49 AM EDT
Ditto, weight is king! AR
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 10:36:04 AM EDT
AR. It is alot lighter club than the FAL.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 10:42:21 AM EDT
I was going to use my AK-47, but since than, I have decided to go with my AR, for obvious reasons. Fals are nice rifles, but I do think the AR will serve it purpose alot better, lighter recoil, quicker follow up shots, also Mags & ammo doesnt seem to be as heavy. [:D] TG
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 10:47:22 AM EDT
Which is more reliable?
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 10:47:58 AM EDT
I can hit faster and more accurate With my AR m4 than I can with a FN in 7.62 in speed drills.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 10:58:00 AM EDT
[b]
Originally Posted By ikor: FAL "Death Stick" would surely be a comfort.
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[/b] Good description!! [:D]
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 10:59:58 AM EDT
I also consider reloading ammo in a longer term SHTF situation. I can load a pretty potent round in .223 with half the amount of powder. .308 really empties the powder cans fast. I also agree with all the above statements too. ARs for packing. M1A is for defending the homestead.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 11:04:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2003 11:09:45 AM EDT by Lockedon]
Think of it this way: The military is ALWAYS in a SHTF situation! - what do they have? I rest my case. Edited to add: Personally, I've got AR's and AK's...I'd never rely on my AK for my life or the life of others. My AR has been time proven over and over again. and 99.99% of all reported malfuntions are a result of poor maintence, and/or faliure to shut the Ejection Port Cover, when not in use.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 11:27:26 AM EDT
Pick something that you know how to shoot and goes bang every time. If that is your FAL, then take it. If it is your AR, likewise. I'll take the gun I have the most familiarity with and the one I am most confident in. Don't overthink the problem.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 11:38:16 AM EDT
Here in the U.S. of A. parts/mags/ammo would be eaiser to get for the AR15/M16 weapons system. Overseas, I'd have to go with the AK47/AKM family of rifles for the same reason. You have to be able to get parts and ammo or all your rifle will be good for is an expensive club. Also, in a SHTF situtation you could always pick up extra weapons from the enemy dead in your AO. That way you could resupply from the enemy in the need arose. JMHO, talk at ya'll later. TN.Frank
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 11:40:44 AM EDT
AR15
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 11:47:24 AM EDT
If the SHTF, my thin wife, or young daughter might have to "sling lead". There is no way they could handle the recoil of an FAL; so we are 5.56 family. Mr. L.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 12:19:50 PM EDT
if on the move ar, if you hold up in your house start with the fal then move to the ar when it becomes time. john i don't have a fal but i use a scoped remington 700 30-06 for those far away shots. my ar's and ak's are for the close in battle. john
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 2:49:58 PM EDT
AR if I have to walk a long way. FAL? Naw, I like my West German HK 91 for those times when Heavy Metal is the only music that is appropriate.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 3:26:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TomJefferson: Ditto, weight is king! AR
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That is why I would like a Bushmaster R97S.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 4:54:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SMJayman: Pick something that you know how to shoot and goes bang every time. If that is your FAL, then take it. If it is your AR, likewise. I'll take the gun I have the most familiarity with and the one I am most confident in. Don't overthink the problem.
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Amen, brotha!
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 4:55:33 PM EDT
The scenario would dictate which weapon system to grab. After seeing the affect of the M855 rounds against regular vehicles in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the need for .30 cal. or larger weapons to stop them, I would use my Garand or other .30/7.62 cal. rifles, for both obstacle penetration and that reach out touch someone ability. As others above have stated, if movement is required, then one of my AR's. This is because of the weigh to quantity of rounds ratio. My speed factor went away long time ago.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 4:55:34 PM EDT
AR-15, FAL, and whatever else. Here's my SHTF fantasy scenario- 1) Barricade the street. 2) Arm the neighbors and wife. Train quickly. AR-15 is not intimidating like an FAL. Oh, one of the neighbors HAS an FAL. Cool. .22 LR- handy for non-shooters. Whatever, get it in to trustworthy hands. 3) Rain fire down on flesh eating zombies. Doesn't matter what you shoot, if you and the neighbors are defending home turf.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 5:03:19 PM EDT
How about an AK-74 or clone? quick repeatability and light (lighter!) recoil of the AR combined with the reliability and rugged utility of the AK platform. 5.45 isn't as volocity dependant, and for the SHTF stockpiling, you can get good 5.45 for less then really crappy .223. That said, I still can't picture what any of these SHTF situations would be composed of, but that's a different topic I guess.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 5:18:52 PM EDT
AR-15 Because....... 1. you can steal mags and ammo form the people you are fighting. Those AR 15 mags and 5.56 are NATO standards and in use by the US Military and Law Enforcement. 7.62 NATO is mostly used in machine guns except for sniper rifels. 2. It's light, accurate, easy to use....... But mostly because of #1, because if the SHTF it will be our government or the UN coming to take our guns.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 6:13:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lockedon: Think of it this way: The military is ALWAYS in a SHTF situation! - what do they have? I rest my case.
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While I agree with case rested as weapon of choice, a whole lot of soldiers are out and about on patrol in Iraq with AKs. I'm sure everyone's heard about this by now- not enough M16s to go around due to the large number of troops that went in as part of armor units and have had to stay doing other functions. As SisHTF for them, this isn't such a bad choice due to the fact you can kick in the doors of a few houses and will doubtlessly find at least several mags if you are running low in a fire fight.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 6:17:37 PM EDT
AR period!
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 7:58:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Raulin:
Originally Posted By Lockedon: Think of it this way: The military is ALWAYS in a SHTF situation! - what do they have? I rest my case.
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While I agree with case rested as weapon of choice, a whole lot of soldiers are out and about on patrol in Iraq with AKs. I'm sure everyone's heard about this by now- not enough M16s to go around due to the large number of troops that went in as part of armor units and have had to stay doing other functions. As SisHTF for them, this isn't such a bad choice due to the fact you can kick in the doors of a few houses and will doubtlessly find at least several mags if you are running low in a fire fight.
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I respectfully disagree with Raulin. I believe that the use of AKs in Iraq wasn't much of a choice...it was more of a matter of necessity. I do aggree with you about the extreme surplus of AK's/ammo in Iraq, and how that would make it a superior choice, given their scenario. However the topic of this thread assumes that there is a choice. Perhaps a mutual consent is: "it depends on the situation". But assuming that S did HTF (god forbid), and we'd be home in the good ol' US, the AR-15 is a superior choice. Of course this is all IMHO
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 8:12:20 PM EDT
AR.....um I mean [b]AR-50[/b]. [:D]
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 8:18:13 PM EDT
METT-T dependent... Which ever one you have more experience on. I would opt for the Ar15 since I know more about assembly and maintenance of the AR15 than a FAL.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 8:18:43 PM EDT
My wife gets the M4, I'll carry the FAL. I can't carry as much ammo, but I live in a desert area. Longer shots are probably the norm. With a 14.5" barrel on the M4 and 55gr ammo, I have a fragmentation range of what, 100 yds? I want something that is lethal at 3 times that distance, i.e. M4 problems in Afghanistan. Just as the Army turned to the M14, I'll grab my FAL.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 8:19:38 PM EDT
If I had to hump it, the AR/M16, but up here in Alaska I have serious need for the adjustable gas system and penetration of the .308 so the FAL, at least for short term SHTF scenarios. My FAL is pretty handy, it has a folding stock and 14" barrel, but the ammo is heavy.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 2:48:25 AM EDT
ALL of the rifles mentioned are well and truly "battle proven". In fact the modern class of weapons (AR, AK, FAL) Have probably seen a lot more combat in a much wider range of geography than even the venerable M1 rifle that everyone loves. Just pick the one that you like the best and call it a day. It doesnt matter what everyone else wants to use.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 2:53:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2003 2:54:38 AM EDT by Lumpy196]
This kind of topic gets beat to death all the time. If the SHTF, having A GUN of significant caliber and capacity is the best gun... Just make sure its in a fairly common caliber to allow you to scrounge ammo if it goes long term.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 3:33:40 AM EDT
FAL all the way. I have my DSA FAL carbine, lots of mags and ammo, and I am hoping not to have to travel the whole way on foot. My bug out plan involves my truck, my quad and a bicycle lastly if need be----why walk when there are so many other options? I just don't like the AR against a well armed opponenet. I have a few because I use them for work---I like the power and reach of a 308, as well as my FAL being chambered for the same ammo as my sniper rifle. That is why three gun matches require 3 hits from an AR to consider a target down. I think the FAL would be the way to go for me. My wife would probably be humping an AR carbine. Sorry don't want to step on any toes, but I like the good ol' FAL---especially with the adjustable gas system in case you can't properly maintain it at all times
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 3:35:04 AM EDT
[size=6][b]AR![/b][/size=6]
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 5:40:30 AM EDT
My FAL for longer range shooting in an open area, its set up for sniping with a bipod and long range scope. My AR15 for close quarter battles in urban or dense wooded areas,one has a collapsable stock and reddot scope for snap shooting.A 'good' vest to carry your ammo and gear, lots of pockets and pouches,and dont forget water bottles.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 5:56:10 AM EDT
Just one gun? AR carbine... seems to be the best compromise of light weight, ammo availability, plus handy "in close" as well as decent range. Now if you add a pistol into the mix, I'd take my 9mm Hi-Power for close quarters, and the FAL for longer ranges. The only negative to this is the extra weight. Either way, I'm sure I'd be dropping my semi-auto after capturing something a little more "mil-spec". Scot
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 6:32:29 AM EDT
are you all alone or in a group? if i was all alone a fal would be more versatile: long and short range effective, greater penetration against hard targets. if in a group it would be nice to have one heavy hitter amongst a couple ar's.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 6:58:23 AM EDT
You guys are all [b]WRONG![/b] [nono] I would call 9/11 and wait for help to arrive. Then the local government will take care of everything for me. If I need food..they will be there. If I need shelter...they will be there. Oh shit I forgot! I'm a [b]REPUBLICAN![/b]...not a fucking democrat. [LOL] M4 with 1000 rounds of M855. [:D]
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 7:59:24 AM EDT
I would take M4 or its variant with 500 rounds of 77gr OTM.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 9:29:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2003 9:29:17 AM EDT by TAC40]
You guys are all WRONG! I would call 9/11 and wait for help to arrive. Then the local government will take care of everything for me. If I need food..they will be there. If I need shelter...they will be there. Oh shit I forgot! I'm a REPUBLICAN!...not a fucking democrat. M4 with 1000 rounds of M855.
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Damn Spooge, had me worried there for a second.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 11:35:29 AM EDT
AR If the M16 is good for the Army...Then the AR is good for me.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 12:13:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lockedon: Think of it this way: The military is ALWAYS in a SHTF situation! - what do they have?
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artillery and air support
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 1:41:49 PM EDT
FAL, definately. I'd rather take 500 rounds of 7.62x51mm than a 1000 of 5.56mm
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 2:13:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2003 2:14:09 PM EDT by DEERSNIPER]
My AR, because of the aforementioned reasons. If in a skilled group, my Remmy 700PSS .308 that i'm supposed to get from "Santa". Edited for spelling.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 3:40:24 PM EDT
hmmm an M1A would be nice... especially if you have an army of slave midgets to hump ammo and mags : ) LittleJacek
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 4:00:32 PM EDT
As 100% reliability, dependable, and sufficient power are the most important things, I would have to grab... Mosin Nagant 1891. [sniper2]
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 6:54:08 PM EDT
Which ever of my rifles I've had the most trigger time behind, and the one that has been the most reliable.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 8:30:03 PM EDT
the heavier bullets in the ar15 extend the range quite a bit, and at +400 yards who cares? If you hit some guy with 22 bullet at 400 yards, he's not going to be able to hit you back. It kinda all depends on what ammo you want, but don't discount the 223 to only 100 yards.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 12:29:24 PM EDT
Well, probably my SAR 3...all the advantages of an AR, except I won't have to clean it very often [:D].
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 12:46:31 PM EDT
If you hit some guy with 22 bullet at 400 yards, he's not going to be able to hit you back.
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i agree. if you can reasonably expect to carry an extra 500 rounds of .223, do it. if you tag someone at 200 or 300 out, you might not kill them, but i doubt they'll be able to concentrate so well on shooting back for a while. AR.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 1:06:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2003 1:07:30 PM EDT by flash-hider]
Since I don't have an FAL, it's AR-15 by default!
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 2:07:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick: Which ever of my rifles I've had the most trigger time behind, and the one that has been the most reliable.
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Now THAT is wisdom, and the same goes for pistols as well.
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