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Link Posted: 9/15/2003 2:49:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Which ever of my rifles I've had the most trigger time behind, and the one that has been the most reliable.
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Now THAT is wisdom, and the same goes for pistols as well.
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In that case it is Mosin Nagant and a Browning High-Power.
It really depends somewhat on terrain and scenario, though.


Link Posted: 9/15/2003 4:44:40 PM EDT
[#2]
I always love these threads!

Those that responded with "whatever your good with, or whatever is closest" understand.

Some of the posters should stop and think about what they may see happening in their lil fantasy. In all likely hood, you will either be alone or in small groups - who are you fighten? What have they got? You got air? Artey? If not, and esp if they do - you may wanna consider that it will be more shoot and scoot.


Weight will be a factor. Every shot must count. Target selection, mobility, gear caches, stealth / camo and hidy holes will be key.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 5:08:40 PM EDT
[#3]
If the $h*t hit the fan, I would:

1) Turn it off so I don't stink up the whole house

2) Determine its value, and if its under $100 I'll throw out the $h*t-covered fan! I saw a new table fan @ Wally World for $10 last night!
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 5:53:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
FAL, definately.  I'd rather take 500 rounds of 7.62x51mm than a 1000 of 5.56mm
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Must be something in IL me, Jack and DSA. My vote is for the FAL. Never ever jams and like Jack, I'd rather have 20 rounds of .308 than 1000 rounds of .223. But I too will dial 911 and wait patiently planting pinecones and trying to reason with the bad guys until the local and extremely competant LEO's arrive on the scene.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 6:56:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
FAL, definately.  I'd rather take 500 rounds of 7.62x51mm than a 1000 of 5.56mm
View Quote


Must be something in IL me, ...  But I too will dial 911 and wait patiently planting pinecones and trying to reason with the bad guys until the[red] local and extremely competant LEO's arrive on the scene.
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[/red]

I hate the Illinois Nazis.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 1:35:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:

I'd rather have 20 rounds of .308 than 1000 rounds of .223.
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really?!!  well i've got a box of 308 that i'll send you if you send me a case of 223!!![:E]
please??   jk

but seriously  [beathorse]
Link Posted: 9/17/2003 12:34:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
I always love these threads!

Those that responded with "whatever your good with, or whatever is closest" understand.

Some of the posters should stop and think about what they may see happening in their lil fantasy. In all likely hood, you will either be alone or in small groups - who are you fighten? What have they got? You got air? Artey? If not, and esp if they do - you may wanna consider that it will be more shoot and scoot.


Weight will be a factor. Every shot must count. Target selection, mobility, gear caches, stealth / camo and hidy holes will be key.
View Quote


I guess I'll chime in. If we were under attack by another country and had to deal with air/artillery (Red Dawn), I'd have signed up for the Marines already. The only SHTF scenario I see is a riot due to extended blackout, court decision, outcome of some sporting event, or any other reason for the "underpriveledged" malcontents to start breaking stuff. I figure I'd be using the FAL simply because the AR seems to be easier for a newbie friend of mine to learn to handle. Basically, if it really got so bad that it became commonplace for me to be shooting at people, I'd probably just switch off and keep score with the different rifles (AR,AK,FAL) to keep things interesting - I know mobs are generally mindless, but don't you think they'd learn pretty quick to stay away from the house with all the "death sticks" poking out?
Link Posted: 9/17/2003 4:49:59 PM EDT
[#8]
AK47: You never have to clean it.
1911 45 ACP
Link Posted: 9/18/2003 9:03:10 AM EDT
[#9]
I like stinkeypete's answer.  
In most SHTF scenarios I can think of, my best bet is to stay home.  Most of us in my neighborhood have food storage to last at least a few months for our families, and water for at least a few weeks.  At least a fourth of us have 1+ guns in the house.  There aren't too many "black guns", but lots of hunting rifles and even more .22 rifles.  If things got bad, we'd barricade the neighborhood.  The husbands would patrol and secure the perimeter.  We know eachother pretty well for several blocks in any direction, so identification shouldn't be a big issue.  Anybody looking for trouble would first have to survive long distance hunting rifle fire (or in my next door neighbor's case, a springfield 30.06 from WWI), and then all sorts of fire at close range.  The neighborhoods nearby are just like mine, so I doubt we'd really have much trouble.
Link Posted: 9/18/2003 10:44:38 AM EDT
[#10]
I love my FAL 100% reliable but I just cant shoot it anywhere near as fast as the AR and my reasoning is at SA's urban distances everything is going to be taking place at 20 to 50 meters so the speed gained with the AR would have to make it my first choice
Link Posted: 9/18/2003 12:11:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Well I'll toss in my 2 cents.  if weight is an issue affecting how much ammo I can carry, I would rather have 1000 rnds of .223 than 500 of .308.  why?  I'd rather take out 1000 bad guys (take out meaning incapacitate to the point of not being a threat) than 500 badguys when the hordes of zombies are storming my way.  dead or seriously injured does not matter to me as long as they can't fire back.
Link Posted: 9/18/2003 1:39:50 PM EDT
[#12]
What is the SHTF? or a better question, what is YOUR interpretation of the SHTF? 3 months of hide and seek over the frozen tundra, living on MREs? Here's a stoy from a buddy of mine, who was in Compton, CA during post-OJ. The most notable stories he told me about the 8 days of chaos were:

1. going to the grocery store. A friend of his had a suburban, and they would literally ride shotgun to the market, and park right at the door. Guns were tucked in their waistbands, and extremely visible. Rifleman at the truck.

2. they were stuck on the freeway. He remembers seeing a group of thugs running from car to car in the bumper to bumper traffic, sticking a pistol in the window, and demanding valuables.  He and his friends displayed their firearms; the perps ran away.

3. gangs were going up and down his street, kicking in doors. He had his only black rifle, a SAR48, on a bipod pointing out his front door, with 5 mags at the ready, SIG 220 on his hip. They saw him, and skipped to the next house.

Things somewhat normalized in a week.

I don't plan on leaving home unless the most dire of circumstances arise. If i had to vacate, i have a wife and small daughter, travel other than vehicle would be damn difficult (but the Landcruiser would be stocked and ready to roll in a minute's notice).



Link Posted: 9/18/2003 1:56:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 9/18/2003 2:20:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Which ever of my rifles I've had the most trigger time behind, and the one that has been the most reliable.
View Quote


Now THAT is wisdom, and the same goes for pistols as well.
View Quote


Makes sense doesnt it?
Link Posted: 9/18/2003 10:27:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Second, your terrain can make a difference, because the primary difference between a 7.62-based weapon and a 5.56-based weapon is effective range.  Those in the Plains states may be better off with a 7.62-based rifle, but if you’re in a heavily urban/suburban area, or one that’s heavily forested, 5.56 will be sufficient.  Certainly, you can argue the superior penetration from 7.62 in many mediums, but that’s more of an issue for offensive missions than for defensive ones.

Third, the number of people in your group can be a factor.  In the military, even down at the squad level, you have several different types of weapons that are designed to work together.  If I had 3 or more people, I’d prefer one of them to have a 7.62 weapon and the others to have 5.56.  If necessary, the 5.56 shooters could create a volume of fire, while the 7.62 shooter takes aimed shots or shots at enemies behind cover.  For a lone actor, I would default to 5.56 unless you have specific reasons which require 7.62, which might be terrain or other considerations in your local area.

-Troy
View Quote


I surmise that a 5.56 round is more than capable of incapacitating a foe at longer ranges....maybe not permanently put down but definitely put out of commission.  I tend to think that many of us think in terms of sniper requirements rather than just plain survival requirements.  Which is more important in a survival situation, more ammo which is more than capable of incapacitating a foe or less ammo to ensure a clean kill when faced with limited ammo and an undetermined time of conflict resolution?
Link Posted: 9/18/2003 11:11:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 9/18/2003 11:13:44 PM EDT
[#17]
AR15 of course...

1) Weight...
leaves room for beer... [booze] urp!
2) Rounds would be plentiful in SHTF scenario...
3) That's all I own right now - a 20" and an 16" M4...
The 20" is bipod with scope for range, and the M4 for CQB...
4) Because it is the American thing to do...

[sniper2]
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 2:18:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Every one says: I'll grab this gun or that gun and this ammo or that ammo.

SO WHO'S TO SAY YOUR GONNA BE AT YOUR HOUSE WHEN SHTF!!!??? DO YOU CARRY 1000RNDS OF AMMO A RIFLE AND PISTOL EVERY WHERE YOU GO?

Think about it...where were you during 9/11?
Most people were at work.


BTW i'd pick the FAL.
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 6:52:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Think of it this way: The military is ALWAYS in a SHTF situation! - what do they have?

Items provided by the lowest bidder!

1. I am too old and tired to run, plus I have a grandson who lives with me. If the SHTF it will have to come to me.
2. I wear a ParaOrdnance P-14 stoked with 15 230gr Federal HydraShoks and a spare standard capacity mag at all times. To fight my way back to the heavy hardware.
3. Franchi SPAS 12 alternating 00Buck and Slug for up close and personal.
4. Ruger Mini 14 alternating FMJ and HP for my wife/daughter/daughter-in-law.
5. L1A1 with 20 loaded 20 rnd mags FMJ for use against vehicular targets. M-1 Garand for backup.
6. Several reliable, similarly equipped neighbors
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 3:40:31 PM EDT
[#20]
 My Dissipator. with my 24" AR across my back.
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 4:11:30 PM EDT
[#21]
You can't say that though cause, I would take either an Ak or AR. The AK has the track record for reliabilty. I love my AR and wouldnt give it up but if I had to survive in, well anywhere, I'd prefer the Ak. Hands down.
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 4:13:33 PM EDT
[#22]
OK, but what if its not the cops or the military?
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 6:42:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Phased-Plasma rifle in the 40-kilowatt range

(took 3 pages before someone thought this one up?)

In the alternative, an M1A.
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