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Posted: 7/30/2002 2:00:54 PM EDT
Ok, I just bought a back up weapon. A S&W 442 .38. It is really nice. Had to get a S&W because that is all my Armorers will allow in revolver. But that is another story. I am curious though. I have been looking at the different ways of carrying, i.e., ankle, chest rig on vest, etc. I was wonderin what most of us carry, if you have a backup at all, and what is your preference on carry. Is it comfortable, etc. Thank in advance for any input. Aladdin
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 2:08:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2002 2:09:55 PM EDT by Hokie]
I have quite a few back up pieces in many calibers, as do many on this board. Everyone has it's purpose and place in my life. But generally when I leave the house, it's either my Glock 26 (with internal laser and finger extension) or my Kel-Tec P32. I like the compactness. I either carry in a ankle holster, holster inside the waist band, or right in my pocket. Depends on the fashion. All I know is that I can draw that little bastard and fire tight groups in a flash.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 4:19:35 PM EDT
Glock 26 with either a FIST brand IWB kydex holster or FIST brand belt slide holster, usually with a spare mag.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 4:25:57 PM EDT
For duty carry, the only way that ever worked for me was in a vest holster. That was with a Glock 30, so I had to fill my other shirt pocket with notebooks and cards to balance things out. That was probably at the upper size limit for a back-up. Ankle holsters don't seem to work too well; your pants ride up and snag on it everytime you get out of the car (and our new uniforms are cut too tight at the ankles for ankle rigs). Some of the guys had moderate sucess with pants-pocket holsters and the really small autos (like Kel-Tec .32s). You will probably burn through some holsters and go through several configurations before you find something that works for you. Have fun, and any back-up gun, anywhere on your person is better than none.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:24:27 AM EDT
S&W 342PD loaded w/ Federal Hydrashok .38 cal 147gr +p+ Carried in a Renegade Ankle Holster.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:31:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:56:13 PM EDT
Ilike pocket holstersfor small guns like your 38, Andrews Custom Leather out of Fl. makes my current one and it is very good. For larger weapons glock 45 or 40, smith 4513 you can not beet Allesi leather. He makes the best, most comfortable ankle rig on the market...I have tried many and none compare. I have one I carried for over 5 years. It had no thumb strap and you cold still turn it upside down and it would still not fall out. If you carry an ankle rig do what Masad Ayoob told me to do. Put it on for a week and never take it off, except to bath. When you sleep take the gun out. After a week you wont notice you hav it on ... if it is a good holster. satay safe
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 6:07:53 AM EDT
I used to carry a Glock 27 on a vest holster. I prefer the vest holster over an ankle holster. Have you ever tried to run in an ankle holster? It messes me all up! For off duty use it depended on what clothing I had on. If it was cold out and I had on bulky clothing then a simple belt slide holster worked. However, a t-shirt required me to use an IWB holster. Just figure out what works for you. The vest holster in my opinion was very comfortable. If you carry a revolver in this fashion it should also be comfortable. medcop
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 10:14:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2002 10:18:13 AM EDT by Hk45USP]
Brother, congrats on getting a back up gun. I own several S&W J-=frames both with hammers and without. I even own a 6 shot Colt Det. Spl in .38. I've been carrying a backup gun now for 11 years as a cop. I've never gone on duty with out one. 99% of the deputies on my department carry back up guns. We can carry semi autos or various S&W, Colt, Ruger .38's. The semi autos must be 9mm or .45. (Although I've carried a little .32 Beretta at times too...shhhh). After all that is said and done, I always now carry my litte 642 alloy/stainless "Airweight" .38. Loaded with CCI "Gold Dots" in 125gr +P hollow points for my back up gun. I also carry one speedy loader on my belt as well. (You never know). I carry my back up in my front left pants pocket, inside a thin leather pocket holster. The gun is carried opposite side of my primary Hk45 holstered gun. In case my primary gun hand is disabled, I can get my back up out with my other hand. I've carried two back ups before just for shits-n-giggles. The second back up I carried was a model 640 in a vest holster. I only did that a couple of times and quickly discovered that I had too much stuff on me. I must say, in my own opinion, forget an ankle holster. If you have to bend down at the waist, or crounch down, pull up your pants, unsnap your ankle holster, come up with the gun on target, that takes WAY TOO MUCH TIME!!!! The suspect has more time to get on target and shoot you in that case. Forget a vest holster. You generally have to come in from the top around your collar in an awkward position with your hand. OR, you have to unbutton/unzip your shirt, then reach in and pull out your gun. It's a lot harder to get at. I belive that a pocket gun is the fastest way to draw and shoot a back up gun. After a while, you'll get used to the feel of the gun and you won't even know it's there. I've even carried the gun in my rear pocket, but my butt hurts after a while. The key is to get a soft leather holster and put it in your pocket. I also feel that a revolver for a back up gun is the most reliable gun vs. an auto loader as a back up. Think about it. A revolver can be worked with one hand. No slid or magazine to work in case of a malfunction. Just pull the trigger again and the cylinder revolves around for a new/fresh bullet. A semi auto (generally) needs to hand to clear a malfuction in a hurry. Plus, autos collect too much lint/dirt after riding in ones pocket for a long time giving the higher possiblity for a FTF etc...
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 12:13:37 PM EDT
I carry a Taurus .38 in a Galco ankle rig. It's a little heavier than the "airweights" but it fits my hands better. The holster is the molded leather with tension screw. I've never had a problem getting to it in uniform or plainclothes. I've also carried a Beretta .32 in a pocket holster (off duty). Never tried a vest holster. Most of our officers carry the compact Glocks and airweights in ankle rigs. If you get a chance, borrow each and try it to see what's most comfortable and accessible for you.
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 2:11:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hk45USP: ....Forget a vest holster. You generally have to come in from the top around your collar in an awkward position with your hand. OR, you have to unbutton/unzip your shirt, then reach in and pull out your gun. It's a lot harder to get at. ...
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If you have a shirt that has just buttons grabbing your shirt and ripping it open while reaching for the firearm is very fast. If my life or others depended on it I wouldn't worry about trashing a shirt. However, you did make a good point about the zipper. Before I started using a vest holster I had shirts that zipped up and had fake buttons on them. I switched to button ups just for the fact that the zipper took too long while the buttons ripped very easy. medcop
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 2:27:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2002 2:28:33 PM EDT by DarkHelmet]
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 5:09:20 PM EDT
Originally posted by MedCop: "If you have a shirt that has just buttons grabbing your shirt and ripping it open while reaching for the firearm is very fast. If my life or others depended on it I wouldn't worry about trashing a shirt. However, you did make a good point about the zipper. Before I started using a vest holster I had shirts that zipped up and had fake buttons on them. I switched to button ups just for the fact that the zipper took too long while the buttons ripped very easy."
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Not to get into an argument, I only offer this as "food for thought." First, if you carry your gun in a vest as you described above, I agree about the buttons and the "who cares about my shirt" statement. BUT....I ask you this: How many button up shirts have you "destroyed" in training/practice, while getting out your back up gun and shooting it at the range like that??? I'm willing to bet (but I could be wrong), that you have never trained that way to retrieve your weapon by ripping open a button up shirt at the range. REMEMBER THE SAYING: "YOU PERFORM IN REAL LIFE, LIKE YOU TRAINED." Therefore, if you carry your gun under your button up shirt, under stress of a gunfight, you may have a difficult time pulling that back up gun out in a hurry and shooting your target. With a back up gun in my pants, I practice shooting it that way at the range every trimester and/or sooner than that. Usually every other month. It's very quick just to reach into your pocket and get the gun out, sight alignment, squeeze trigger...BANG!!!! No shirts to ruin during practice/training. It's all good to keep a gun holstered a certain way, but if you don't continually practice your weapon handling, we humans are victims to our skills that are "perishable." Even if you got an old shirt once or twice in your career out out the range and ripped open the buttons while trying to withdrawl your back up gun isn't enough. That is a skill that must be continually practiced throughout your "gun totting" career, in my opinion. There has been few documented cases of where cops under stress for their lives, couldn't even get there primary handgun out of their duty holster because they were not familiar with the retention system. Because they never trained with it. Or they trained with it once or twice in their career and then forgot about it. They were slaps. Particularly a Harbor Patrol cop that was killed in the 80's in L.A. County (Marina Del Ray), before the Sheriff's department took over that agency. A Harbor guy was confronted by a gunman and the cop under stress and panick kept pulling up on his gun and it never came out of the holster. The cop was killed. It was later learned that the cop never practiced taking his gun out of the holster under some type of stressful condition (training). Just "food for thought"
Link Posted: 8/4/2002 11:08:52 AM EDT
Hey Guys, thanks for the input. I am now trying out an Akers nylon ankle holster. We will see. The 442 is an airweight, so it is pretty light. I have been wearing it for a week now, and I havent really noticed it while out and about. I have been practicing drawing for the week, with my uniform on, and am so far fairly proficent in getting it out fast. But as you know practice makes perfect... I noticed we talked about retention holsters and having a problem getting them out of the holster. I use a retention holster with the shroud over the top. I have become very proficent with it, although I had a BAD situation yesterday that made me fix a problem with it. I noticed the weapon (226 Sig in .40) was kind of sloppy in the holster. But it was great for qick retrieval. I was on a hairy collision scene yesterday, and was running to a burning vehicle. For some reason, I keep hitting the shroud inadvertently with my arm on occasion, and the shroud was off. My weapon came out of the holster, and hit the ground, skittering across the pavement... OUCH! Needless to say, not a good thing. So I got out the allen wrench today and tightened it up. So everyone, make sure that retention holster is snug. Just my thoughts. Alan P.S. The Sig is ok, just a little scrapage on the mag.
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 8:22:23 PM EDT
S&W Airweight, left front pocket, Uncle Mike's pocket holster. It's got a friction band on it to keep it in your pocket when you draw. I tried an ankle holster. After a few days when you get over your "ankle holster limp" (Those of you who have worn this kind of rig know exactly what I'm talking about), you realize just how close to the ground your firearm is, and after about a week you start to see the accumulation of dirt in and around your secondary ass-saving device. That was enough for me. I wore a vest rig for a while, but found it impractical and I couldn't afford to trash shirts in training. The front-pocket rig, when carried with a 5-shot snubby or thin auto, looks like a wallet. It's low profile. In your offhand pocket (much as has already been mentioned) it is a good option should your primary gun hand be disabled. Also, I've noticed that people, when looking you over for tell-tale backup weapon clues, usually are looking for something you can reach with your strong side. I'm thinking of grabbing a Kel-Tec P32 with the pocket clip and carrying it in my pocket like a Spyderco. It's thinner than my .38 and I think the pocket clip will be handier. Any thoughts on this? Especially since now that I'm out of "the business", my "backup" is, 8 times out of 10, my primary. Panz [bounce]
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 8:47:02 AM EDT
Before I came to the "we don't allow throw-down guns here" dept, I carried a Walther PPK/S in a vest holster under a zipper shirt. The holster was a belly band variety and I loved it. They wear forever and give the added benefit of extending the life of your vests velcro and elastic (plus my vest fit a LOT better). During the winter I carried the Walther in a pants pocket and a Colt Det. Special in a jacket pocket holster. With all of my practice I never noticed that the zipper slowed me down at all. If you keep the zipper well lubricated with the wax-treatment sticks that tailors use then you can pull them open from top down. The pocket carry IS faster but my depts polyester pants "print" everything in them.
Link Posted: 8/20/2002 8:14:00 PM EDT
I carry a Kel-Tec P-32 in my left front pocket, so that I can still use my strong hand to fight or protect my holstered weapon if someone is trying to grab it. I've been in that postion and I didn't enjoy it much. I didn't have a back up at the time and I wish that I did. The one main thing with a back up is that it is no good unless you carry it. Find out what works best for you and use it. Gary
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