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Posted: 3/1/2002 2:56:37 PM EDT
It's just like I said it was. Here's what Dell sent to the NRA to post on their website regarding the whole recent issue:
Dear Valued Customers and Friends: We appreciate the opportunity to clarify the facts regarding a customer issue reported in the media and Dell’s position on political or social issues that many of you care deeply about. Regarding Handgun Rights/Handgun Control…. Dell is a publicly-traded, customer-focused company with customers, shareholders and employees on both sides of many public, social and political issues. Our place is to serve our customers rather than to endorse or support one position over another in public debates outside the scope of our industry. We do not discriminate against any business, regardless of the products or services they sell, nor do we discriminate against individual customers. We do, however, respect the right of any organization or individual to have their own point of view. We follow all laws, rules and regulations. Regarding allegations that Dell supports Handgun Control organizations through the Dell Affiliates program… Dell as a company remains neutral on handgun rights and handgun control. Dell customers can support causes and organizations, if they choose, through Dell’s affiliates program and charitable websites such as igive.com and progressivefunds.com. These sites feature links to Dell’s website. Dell’s affiliates program provides a way for customers to support the cause or organization of their choice through their Dell purchases. Affiliate participants, such as igive.com and progressivefunds.com, include organizations and causes on different sides of nearly every social issue.
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Link Posted: 3/1/2002 2:57:14 PM EDT
Some of the organizations participating through Dell affiliates such as igive.com and progressivefunds.com., promote handgun rights, others promote handgun control. Handgun Control Inc. (HCI) has been reported as one organization that participates in this program. Others including The Gun Owners Foundation and the Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners Foundation, Inc. also participate through Dell affiliate igive.com. The only organizations prohibited from participating in Dell’s affiliates program are those that promote sexually explicit material; promote violence; promote discrimination based on race, sex, religion, nationality, disability, sexual orientation or age; or promote illegal activities. Regarding the assertion that Dell cancelled Mr. Jack Weigand’s order for a notebook computer because of his firearm association… We made a mistake. Mr. Weigand’s order was improperly cancelled because we did not gather the additional information required by U.S. law to process his order. Dell flagged Mr. Weigand’s order (initiated under his company name Weigand’s Combat Firearms) for additional follow-up (and then we failed to do so) because of the word “combat” in his company name. This internal control is in place to ensure that a domestic purchase is not redirected to an end user for a prohibited use (such as the creation and development of weapons of mass destruction) or to a country that has been restricted from receiving U.S. technology exports (such as Libya, Syria, Iran and Iraq). This due diligence is required by U.S. law. We also review orders for words such as “nuclear,” “missile,” and “plutonium.” Dell’s process excludes reviews for “guns” or “firearms.” The mistake was ours because we failed to follow our process. We failed to call Mr. Weigand for information that would have satisfied legal requirements and ultimately would have resulted in completion of Mr. Weigand’s transaction. We have apologized for this mistake directly to Mr. Weigand. We have tried to make it right with our customer by giving him a free computer for his trouble and inconvenience. Dell has many customers and employees who are handgun owners and enthusiasts. We know that gun owners and advocates, such as Mr. Weigand, are law abiding Americans, and as such, can understand and appreciate our efforts to comply with American export laws, while serving all customers. We have heard from many of you over the last few days, and we appreciate the opportunity to speak with you directly about these issues. Your relationships with us, and your feedback about our products and services are crucial to our success
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Link Posted: 3/1/2002 3:12:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 3:13:47 PM EDT by thedave1164]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 3:12:27 PM EDT
Jesvs, would you guys chill? Dell "tried to make it right," and you're P.O.'d because they didn't make it clear that Weigand turned it down? What difference does it make that he turned it down - [i]they tried to make it right[/i]. Cut them some fvcking slack already! My next computer purchase [b][i][size=3]WILL BE A DELL[/size=3][/i][/b] and I intend to tell them so. They screwed up. They responded rapidly. They have addressed every concern. We've heard from a spokesperson. We've heard from the President. We've heard from the Legal Department. WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT THEM TO DO?!?! The sell COMPUTERS! THEY AREN'T IN THE FIREARMS BUSINESS!
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 3:23:59 PM EDT
I'll repost my comment on this here, and maybe we can get one thread going (and tacked, Moderator?) That is the most even-handed and well formulated corporate response I've ever seen. But, for some, it will never be good enough. I don't think some gun-owners will EVER be satisfied... they just gotta have an enemy, real or imagined. This paranoid behavior does more harm, and makes more enemies for our cause, than *anything* Dell has done. Think about it.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 3:35:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: I'll repost my comment on this here, and maybe we can get one thread going (and tacked, Moderator?) That is the most even-handed and well formulated corporate response I've ever seen. But, for some, it will never be good enough. I don't think some gun-owners will EVER be satisfied... they just gotta have an enemy, real or imagined. This paranoid behavior does more harm, and makes more enemies for our cause, than *anything* Dell has done. Think about it.
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Sorry BUT that is why your guns in Kali is being banned because too many gun owners are imagening things.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 4:01:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IAM_NAKID:
Originally Posted By DScott: I'll repost my comment on this here, and maybe we can get one thread going (and tacked, Moderator?) That is the most even-handed and well formulated corporate response I've ever seen. But, for some, it will never be good enough. I don't think some gun-owners will EVER be satisfied... they just gotta have an enemy, real or imagined. This paranoid behavior does more harm, and makes more enemies for our cause, than *anything* Dell has done. Think about it.
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Sorry BUT that is why your guns in Kali is being banned because too many gun owners are imagening things.
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Huh?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 6:28:01 PM EDT
How Rare! An apology? I will try to make Dell my next purchase! I already swore never again with HP.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 6:51:07 PM EDT
I would like to know exactly which U.S. Code they are referring to when they say their 'due diligence' is required by law. If anyone here knows. If the law in question is regarding items for export, rather than domestic sales, I would say their response is less than it should be. They should not be applying export rules to domestic sales, if that is in fact what took place. In other words, I'd like to know what actually required them, in their mind, to collect additional information from him. And was that 'reguirement' based on a misunderstanding of whether of the law in the first place - did it REALLY apply to his transaction? This issue has not been put to rest. And as someone else pointed out, do we really think Libyans are so dumb that they would try to buy through a company they set up with a "hot-button" name? They might be crazy, but I give them more credit for intelligence than that.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 7:06:14 PM EDT
Again, I would like to also ask who in the heck would buy with a name like "Terriorists R-Us"?? Or maybe "Death to the US Satan"??? Just like the local "homeland security" BS here, these bozos have lost their GD minds. Does anyone have an e-mail address that we can send them mail to?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 7:28:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 7:29:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2002 7:31:20 PM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 10:28:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BobCole: Again, I would like to also ask who in the heck would buy with a name like "Terriorists R-Us"?? Or maybe "Death to the US Satan"??? Just like the local "homeland security" BS here, these bozos have lost their GD minds. Does anyone have an e-mail address that we can send them mail to?
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Whose e-mail address? Again, this is an issue with federal regulations. If you want to complain, complain to the government--not Dell. They are just complying with (idiotic) law.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 11:27:52 PM EDT
I'm an IT director for a very large technology company in Silicon Valley. One thing that I've noticed is that IT people, for the most part, seem to like guns as much as they like their computers (i.e. www.geekswithguns.com). I know I do. I have final approval for millions of dollars worth of equipment. About 40% is network equipment, and the rest is primarily servers (Sun/solaris, x86, etc). A growing proportion of our server purchases are x86/Linux servers (one of Dell's core target markets). IBM has been trying very hard to get our organization to purchase some of their servers. Thus far we have pretty much settled on Dell servers, and we were planning on standardizing on Dell. BUT, after this whole thing, I'm having second thoughts. Perhaps I'll give IBM a try. The servers and prices are comprable...
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 9:53:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 9:57:53 AM EDT by prk]
Originally Posted By thedave1164: PRK, I don't remember the US code, but on my search that I made concerning a computer sale on ebay, I found the part that they were refering to. It has been there for over a year. I had a person trying to buy a laptop from a US address, their e-mail account was through an Iranian ISP, and the request was to ship to an address in the UAE. Needless to say, I wasn't that interested in selling said laptop. So as explained I don't find their explanation so unreasonable. JMO dave
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Your case seems to be quite a bit different than this one. There was absolutely no indication that he was foreign, that the computer would be exported, and no foreign ISP involved. So the only possible keys were the words "combat" and "firearms". Now since they're not going to hand over their list of key words (that is, if it was THEIR list that triggered this), we'll have to imagine what [b]other[/b] two words might get you in trouble: Fred's[b] Gun [/b]Shop in[b] Battle[/b] Creek, Michigan [b]Fertilizer[/b], 10 pound bag for $7.50 at your local [b]Target[/b] store. [b]Surplus[/b][b] Fuel Tank[/b] Sales (a triple), 945 Old Highway 40, Ft. Collins. (made-up address) Now that's assuming that it's only Dell, and their own internally generated list. How are we to knowe that this was not sparked by a call from Ft.Meade? And that they're only looking at the customer names? Carnivore has a pretty narrow focus, compared to some of the other technology in government hands. Pretty easy to snag & reassemble packets based on key words, too. Their real challenge is traffic management, which they can use algorithms for. I'm actually very glad that this incident happened, to put some sunshine on things. We needed to know that they are doing this.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 4:12:00 PM EDT
Sales Filter Software Helps U.S. Companies Avoid Selling to Terrorists http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/TechTV/techtv_softwarescreen020301.html "Companies that use Vastera's product include [b]Dell Computer[/b], Microsoft, Lucent Technologies, and Novell." The headline was a sidebar to another ABCNews article lined in another thread about the pissy French and their opinion of the US (can you say "As IF?) Now THIS is AR15.com [blue][i]synergy[/i][/blue]
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:20:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: personaly i say BULLSHIT!! There is no reason for any type of screening for pc sales in the US. there are ZERO laws regulating the sale of computer equipment inside the US. Only regarding exportation outside the country. Any terrorist thats wants one could buy all he wanted off the shelf at walmart no questiones asked. THIS IS PERSECUTION of fiearms owners and companies. Dell blows and so does their response. mike
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I must say I agree 100%. What more could this software be than a word search anyway. Besides if Mohammed Rasheed Atah wants access to a computer, beleieve me some BS software that Dell or Gateway's sales department has is not gonna stop him. I say we must immediately petion congress for a 5 day waiting period on computer purchases, and we must ban all high capacity assault computers immediately. Remember it's for the children.
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