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Posted: 11/6/2001 8:46:09 PM EDT
Guys...Please don't bring your weapons to church. Do you really feel good partaking of the sacrament and having that weapon hit your bicep while you're doing it? You can leave it out in the vehicle. Church is supposed to be where you leave the earthly stuff behind for the day and get spiritually recharged. Just my thoughts hope, I've helped some. Non Mormons please don't flame this post.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 8:54:54 PM EDT
I am not a Mormon nor do I wish to flame. However, I think worshippers deserve to be safe from evil people that would harm them. I base that on what I consider high authority. I believe Christ said "he who does not own a sword should sell his cloak and buy one". A sword in His time was roughly equivalent to a gun now. I have always considered His advice sound and choose to be armed.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 9:01:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: I am not a Mormon nor do I wish to flame. However, I think worshippers deserve to be safe from evil people that would harm them. I base that on what I consider high authority. I believe Christ said "he who does not own a sword should sell his cloak and buy one". A sword in His time was roughly equivalent to a gun now. I have always considered His advice sound and choose to be armed.
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Since I asked for no flame..well..I think your church is false, in fact I think it's worse than false.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 9:03:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By crowTrobot:
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: I am not a Mormon nor do I wish to flame. However, I think worshippers deserve to be safe from evil people that would harm them. I base that on what I consider high authority. I believe Christ said "he who does not own a sword should sell his cloak and buy one". A sword in His time was roughly equivalent to a gun now. I have always considered His advice sound and choose to be armed.
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Since I asked for no flame..well..I think your church is false, in fact I think it's worse than false.
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LMAO. Typical.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 9:08:46 PM EDT
ct - in your case, remove the second "m"......
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 9:11:20 PM EDT
Let the games begin. You ask for no flame, get a civil response, then throw out an unnecessary attack. You reap what you sow. As far as I am concerned, Moronisim, I mean Mormonism is a CULT and not a religion.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 9:25:21 PM EDT
Here we go again...well I'll stay out of this war.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 9:33:51 PM EDT
Guys...Please don't bring your weapons to church
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Tell that to the sixteen Christians gunned down in church in Pakistan.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 10:44:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 11:00:38 PM EDT
Who cares? If a gun is concealed, only you and the Good Lord know about it. Maybe you have a problem controlling your own behavior and wish to control others as well. I haven't been to church for years, but I am a "Mormon", so I guess I can flame away. Crowrobot, you are the typical idiot that chases people away from church. "If you don't conform, you can't participate". You're such a narrow minded dumb ass, that you couldn't even acknowledge someone's contribution with out thinking it was an attack on your faith. You are the reason that people think Mormons are freaks.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 11:21:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2001 11:16:29 PM EDT by kpel308]
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 1:07:51 AM EDT
I don't get it Crow, MM just stated his opinion on your statement, did not flame in any way that I could find, yet you flame the guy back? Whats up with that? You're bolstering the belief that the LDS Church is an intolerant entity...which I know is not the case. I would advise you to re-think your response to him, maybe even offer an apology. He didn't deserve that type of response. If you post a topic, no matter what it is on the internet, expect people to respond, especially when it concerns religion or politics. Yes, I am Morman, even go to church, married in the Temple even. So there ya go..oh yes, If my stake says not to carry within the church area, I will not, but until then...since I'm allowed by the State Of California to carry a concealed weapon, I'll do so.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 1:33:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 1:44:11 AM EDT by patsue]
crowTrobot, What kind of a stupid response was that to Mickey Mouse? There's more I want to say but I am going to bite my tongue. You turned this into a religious flame war thread with your comment. Talk about destroying the credibility of your religion and yourself. You just did both in one quick stupid comment. Man, it is hard to bite my tongue, it is bleeding. All we need is some nut case on the hunt looking for a bunch of sheep in the corral to go shoot. It will be next, in fact its already happened. Remember that youth rally down in Texas that that nut broke into and shot several people? I pack when I go to church for that reason. Patsue
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 3:47:58 AM EDT
Who can remember the name of the book about the Mormon church buying forged docs from one of their own? The documents supposedly debunked the church, the real story isnt that they were fake it is that the church was buying and hiding them in order to keep the church alive. Ropes
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 3:52:31 AM EDT
I love stirring up evangelical christians.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 3:57:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 3:51:02 AM EDT by garandman]
Originally Posted By crowTrobot: I love stirring up evangelical christians.
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[rolleyes] [:K]
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:00:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 4:13:56 AM EDT by Ponyboy]
Originally Posted By crowTrobot: I love stirring up evangelical christians.
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This has absolutely nothing to do with mormonism. No where does it say anything in the mormon faith about carrying firearms in church. A lot of people would carry here in Texas if it wasn't against the law. No I'm not a mormon, I have relatives that are. Why do you love stirring up Christians? We out number you about 1000 to 1. Sounds like a Taliban mentality to me.... Michael
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:04:52 AM EDT
crowTrobot: And what if our minister has asked us to carry, due to the collection having been stolen after the service has concluded in the past? Kharn
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:11:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By crowTrobot: Guys...Please don't bring your weapons to church. Do you really feel good partaking of the sacrament and having that weapon hit your bicep while you're doing it? You can leave it out in the vehicle. Church is supposed to be where you leave the earthly stuff behind for the day and get spiritually recharged. Just my thoughts hope, I've helped some. Non Mormons please don't flame this post.
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What you do and what others do is everyones own business. Why do people who profess to be religious always try to tell others how to live their lives? If you don't want YOUR gun in church, fine, but let others decide for themselves. It takes a small person, insecure in his/her own convictions, to stand up in the name of religion spouting what a person should and should not do. Do us a favor and leave your sermons in church not posted in a gun related forum.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:17:37 AM EDT
Seems like a lot of non LDS wanna chime in on a question not directed their way? I find it odd so many LDS are packin to church. I really don't care what happens in evangelical churches. I see a lot of justifying is what I see.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:18:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SexualChocolate: As far as I am concerned, Moronisim, I mean Mormonism is a CULT and not a religion.
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Why?
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:19:58 AM EDT
You know what the funniest part about this whole guns and church thing is? Well, it goes like this. Since GOD created everything on this planet then that meens he is everywhere, as in everywere you would normally care a gun. The "amount" of GOD does not increase once you step inside a church, and his laws of self protection do not change either, they remain constant regardless of were one is. Yes a church is sacred and holy, but the main difference is the concintrated amount of [i]believers[/i] whorshiping GOD, not a higher concintrated amount [i]of[/i] GOD. Sgtar15 PS. And yes, this guy is an obviously a troll
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:21:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 4:17:22 AM EDT by garandman]
Originally Posted By crowTrobot: Seems like a lot of non LDS wanna chime in on a question not directed their way?I really don't care what happens in evangelical churches .
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Originally Posted By crowTrobot: I love stirring up evangelical christians.
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Don't feed the [:K] 's.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:23:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By crowTrobot: Seems like a lot of non LDS wanna chime in on a question not directed their way?
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Because in the third post you attacked our faith you f*cking idiot. Are you really that dense? Michael
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:23:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: You know what the funniest part about this whole guns and church thing is? Well, it goes like this. Since GOD created everything on this planet then that meens he is everywhere, as in everywere you would normally care a gun. The "amount" of GOD does not increase once you step inside a church, and his laws of self protection do not change either, they remain constant regardless of were one is. Yes a church is sacred and holy, but the main difference is the concintrated amount of [i]believers[/i] whorshiping GOD, not a higher concintrated amount [i]of[/i] GOD. Sgtar15 PS. And yes, this guy is an obviously a troll
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I don't recall you being a "holy roller" like myself, but that is a pretty good summation of Biblical truth on the subject matter. Well said.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:43:00 AM EDT
I am not a Mormon, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but any time I go to church my gun is with me...my rod comforts me. [;)] I am not a big believer in God, but even when I was I knew that God helps those who help themselves.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:51:39 AM EDT
ALL EXTREMISM IS THE ROOT OF HUMAN CONFLICT. CHRISTIAN EXTREMISTS ARE AS BAD AS THE TALEBAN.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:51:59 AM EDT
[flame]Leave your weapons in the car....would'nt want the Guns/rounds destroyed in the explosion[;)]
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:59:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BenDover: ALL EXTREMISM IS THE ROOT OF HUMAN CONFLICT. CHRISTIAN EXTREMISTS ARE AS BAD AS THE TALEBAN.
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If by that you mean any "christian Extremists" who fly planes into buildings killing 5K people, I agree wholeheartedly. Other than that, I'm NOT taking the bait.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:04:10 AM EDT
Garandman, No, I would not necessarily (sp?) call myself a holy roller per se. However I have been in a life long journey evaluating my roll in GOD's great world. That it it's just common sense IMHO. If GOD is than he is, and if GOD isn't than what would mean man is the greatest creature of all time. That type of thinking is rather vain to me. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:14:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By crowTrobot: ...Church is supposed to be where you leave the earthly stuff behind for the day and get spiritually recharged....
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Not a flame but a serious question: You feel a gun is an Earthly thing and therefore doesn't belong in church. Shouldn't you leave all of your other Earthly stuff like money, jewelry, and clothing in your cars when you go to church?
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:17:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: I am not a Mormon nor do I wish to flame. However, I think worshippers deserve to be safe from evil people that would harm them. I base that on what I consider high authority. I believe Christ said "he who does not own a sword should sell his cloak and buy one". A sword in His time was roughly equivalent to a gun now. I have always considered His advice sound and choose to be armed.
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Well, I [i]am[/i] a Mormon, and I [b]really[/b] like the way that you think, MickeyMouse. To all others, I promise not to judge you by those who attend your church if you promise not to judge me by those who proclaim to attend mine. I believe that each of us has a choice as to how we live our lives and how we worship. I'll not cast stones at others beliefs, as long as those beliefs do not infringe on anyone else's God-given rights. Be safe, Bud P.S. My e-mail address is in my profile. Any rock throwers can drop me a line there. [:)]
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:20:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Originally Posted By crowTrobot: ...Church is supposed to be where you leave the earthly stuff behind for the day and get spiritually recharged....
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Not a flame but a serious question: You feel a gun is an Earthly thing and therefore doesn't belong in church. Shouldn't you leave all of your other Earthly stuff like money, jewelry, and clothing in your cars when you go to church?
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EEEEEEEWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!! Nekkid church people. What a revolting thought. Please, God, no!!!!!!!!!!! However, solid logic Cal_Kid. Something anathema to TROLLS. Don't waste your time. He's here to stir things up, NOT to discuss.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:22:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bud: P.S. My e-mail address is in my profile. Any rock throwers can drop me a line there. [:)]
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Well damn Bud!!! How do you expect me to throw rocks at you if you post things that make sense? [^] sgtar15
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:35:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 5:31:45 AM EDT by I_am_Sancho]
Originally Posted By crowTrobot: I love stirring up evangelical christians.
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So do I, but you're all the same to me. I don't care what brand you are.
Non Mormons please don't flame this post. . . Seems like a lot of non LDS wanna chime in on a question not directed their way?
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Whadidya expect? the topic was 2 pages long when I saw it, it's obviously got something good. Hint: if a topic title has nothing to do with guns, war or womenz and is 2 pages or more long it's usually some maladjusted nut ranting about and flaming people about weird stuff.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:03:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: This has absolutely nothing to do with mormonism. No where does it say anything in the mormon faith about carrying firearms in church. A lot of people would carry here in Texas if it wasn't against the law. No I'm not a mormon, I have relatives that are.
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FYI Ponyboy... it is no longer against the law to carry concealed in church. It was when they first wrote the law but they amended it. Now both churches and hospitals have to post the correct 30.06 sign to deny CHL. Check www.packing.org for details. David
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:06:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DJS: Now both churches and hospitals have to post the correct 30.06 sign to deny CHL
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If they have the sign, does that mean you can sling a Garand or an 03A3 over your shoulder instead?
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:14:53 AM EDT
I've been to quite a few church services with an M16 slung over my shoulder. In fact, as an adult, the ONLY church services I've been to (aside from weddings, funerals and baptisms), I was armed with an M16, M203, M-249 or at least a Beretta. [:)]
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:19:21 AM EDT
yeah Crowtrobot, You represent your faith very well don't you? croTrobot- "I love stirring up evangelical christians."
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:36:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 6:56:12 AM EDT by SPECTRE]
Originally Posted By Renamed:
Originally Posted By SexualChocolate: As far as I am concerned, Moronisim, I mean Mormonism is a CULT and not a religion.
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Why?
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A good question, how about an answer Mr. sexual chocolate ?? Edited to ask.....What religion are you SC ??
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:00:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Originally Posted By crowTrobot: Since I asked for no flame..well..I think your church is false, in fact I think it's worse than false.
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Typical mormon intolerance. If worshipers choose to go to church armed that is their choice. Your "church" exercises so much direct control over its members why not have your bishop issue an edict declaring anyone caught carrying will lose their temple reccomend. The blood will be on their hands when a gunman targets one of your places of worship, just as they have other churches in the past.
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Sinistral, don't lump all of us into one basket. It would seem that you have some knowledge of the faith, but may have had a bad experience with the "church". I am LDS, and I am under no ones control. In my ward and stake for that matter, you will find most everyone is pro RKBA and some do come to service armed, their choice, no big deal. As to all the others who posted here concerning one religion or another, choose the one that best suits you, but don't begrudge someone else on their choice. The LDS religion is just as valid as any other. I could make the argument that any religion could be considered a "cult". So whether you are a wicken or a jew, catholic or southern baptist, enjoy your faith and let others do the same. [:D]
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:28:53 AM EDT
It is legal to CCW in Utah in a church, unless the church posts a sign saying it is prohibited. No Mormon Churches or Temples in Utah that I have seen post such signs. If the LDS church was really against packing, they could post the signs or change the law to outright prohibit CCW in churches. It has essentially been left up to individuals. I have heard on this board that the mormon church published something asking people not to carry at chruch, but I could not find any reference to such a document at lds.org, where almost everything the church has published is chronicled. Perhaps it was purged? Rank and file mormons are generally very fanatical about RKBA, much more so than the high church leadership, and any such announcement would undoubtedly get a lot of negative feedback. I would also like to express that crowTrobot's comments are his own, and not representative of every mormon's beliefs, or of the LDS church generally. I hope most mormons realize that the ability to practice your religion is entirely dependent on respecting other people's right to do the same.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:41:45 AM EDT
I just want everyone on this board to know that crowTrobot is not a representative of how the vast majority of Latter-Day Saints act, especially to others that are not of their faith. Personally, crowTrobot should apologize to everyone who you have openly offended by your un-Christ like rantings in this post. Better yet, I will apologize for him. MickeyMouse: I understand where you are coming from and am sorry that someone from my faith was too ignorant respond like an adult. SexualChocolate: That's pretty funny! If you seriously believe that, you need to do a little more research. You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is an uneducated one. This is not a flame; I just get tired of people saying the word CULT when raging on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. If you want to talk about it, drop me an email anytime. And a blanket apology to everyone else, LDS or not, who was offended by the ignorance of crowTrobot. I am LDS. I have a temple recommend. I have a testimony of the atonement of Jesus Christ, and his divine ministry and gospel. I know that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God and was instrumental in the restoration of the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ and also translated the Book of Mormon through the power granted to him by God. I believe President Gordon B. Hinckley to be a man called of God as Prophet, Seer, and Revelator who is Christ's representative on the earth today. He receives modern day revelation. I believe that the Bible is the word of God. I believe that the Book of Mormon is the word of God also. I am a veteran. I am a gun owner. I have a CCW permit. I decide when and where I carry. It is a right "granted" to me by the State of Utah. I go to church with people who love god, America, and guns who may or may not carry when they are there. Or anywhere else for that manner. This issue boils down to faith and faith alone. I believe in Christ, so come what may. That means that if it is my time to go, it is my time to go and there is nothing that I can do about it. Gun or no gun. With that being said, I still carry a gun when I want to. I figure that I will do what I have to do to protect myself and that if it is still my time to go, then so be it. I am living for heaven and not for this world. I believe in Christ, so come what may.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:42:06 AM EDT
crowtrobot, guns are not the only weapon that God created. would you ask your flock to leave behind their mini-pocket-knife key chains as well? their fists?
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:46:16 AM EDT
I agree with RikWriter, "God helps those who help themselves" and my gun is going under my suit jacket, and if you don't like you can kiss my bass. If you carry concealed, nobody should know but you and the Lord. Ice
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:55:50 AM EDT
BYU - Good post. Thanks for the clarification. While I am a person of faith, i wasn't all that sure about many of the Mormon particulars, but WAS pretty sure CrowT wasn't either. [}:D] I'll post the following SOLELY for comparison, and as the word "cult" has been bandied about a bit. traditionally, the term "Cult" (as used by followers of Jesus Christ) has been used to denote "religions" who deny that jesus is the Christ the Son of God. Your post makes it pretty clear that ain't y'all. The main areas of differentiation come in Mormonism's beliefs about what has happened SINCE 100 A.D. Generally speaking, people of my faith take issue with your placing of importance on men such as Joeseph Smith, and subsequent "revelators" like Hinckley. Its smacks of papism, which is not a criticism, just a comparison. Revelation 22 in the Bible makes it clear that God's revelation to man was complete with the cannon of Scripture as contained in the Bible. This is bedrock doctrine within Christianity. As such, the Book of Mormon would be viewed as man-made. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just NOT on the same level of authority as Scripture. So, I would say those are the two MAIN areas of differentiation. But thanks for teh clarification, and the gentlemanly response. i hope mine has been equally respectful.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 8:37:33 AM EDT
I'm no fundamentalist Christian. I would have no problem leaving my piece in the car but why advertise an unarmed congregation esecially in these times? Are you going to post armed guards at the door? My church has a sign stating "Blessed are the Peacemakers" so I only tote my Colt SAA ;) And crow, you are still a DICK!
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 8:52:11 AM EDT
What is confusing in this whole discussion is the placing such a high importance on a building. It is just that a building. The scriptures are very clear, the church is the body of people who gathered together under the same purpose. The church is the people, not some building made of man made materials. That's what makes the body of Christ so unique. We are a living, breathing, functioning part of our Saviour. The building is just that a conveinant place to gather with others of likemindness, to be sparred from the elements. Please someone demonstate to me from the New Testament Scriptures, where the emphasis came on the building. During the years of persecution, I can guarantee you, those that gathered together, were armed. So what is the differance? "I am LDS. I have a temple recommend. I have a testimony of the atonement of Jesus Christ, and his divine ministry and gospel. I know that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God and was instrumental in the restoration of the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ and also translated the Book of Mormon through the power granted to him by God. I believe President Gordon B. Hinckley to be a man called of God as Prophet, Seer, and Revelator who is Christ's representative on the earth today. He receives modern day revelation. I believe that the Bible is the word of God. I believe that the Book of Mormon is the word of God also." I would like for this to be discussion of serious minded adults, who can discuss without letting it boil down to a slug fest. So in that thought: BYU, Can you tell me where to look to find the geological evidence that supports the things that Joseph Smith proclaims to be truths? Outside the LDS church, of course. It is proven beyond any doubt that the Bible, is historically and geologically true. In the same thought, I would like to understand the LDS a bit more and J.S.'s claims. I eagerily await. If you feel this needs to be carried out in private, which I hope, we can all learn some from this, I will understand and we can email back and forth.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 8:57:31 AM EDT
Here's a thought Crow...If the church (LDS) was against packing heat in church, us poor sheeple here in Zion would already have a state law against the practice because as we all know(at least here in Utah) the legislators here don't take a crap without the permission of the "Church".......Now flame away....oh ya....Enjoy some Polyigamast(sp) Porter while you craft your flame[:D]....cheers!
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 9:03:29 AM EDT
I'm not religious, but I'm pretty sure all religions started out as "cults". I'd bet when people were worshiping the sun, two guys got together to worship the moon, and they were referred to as "those damn moon cultist". Tolerance is something most religions practice now, the Mormons being no exception, at least in my experience. Oh, everybody, that is except for CTR, who is just one weenie in the pack.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 9:04:58 AM EDT
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