I have serious doubts that crowT is even a baptized member of the LDS church. More likely than not his post was meant to paint Mormons in a bad light by posting a religious statement and subsequently flaming anybody with a differing viewpoint. The intolerant response to MM is not typical of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. I know of nobody in my ward or stake that would respond in a manner like that.

I've stuck various parts of my body into a few really hot mormon girls, they're just like catholics....looking like a goodie goodie on the outside and a nympho underneath!  They're too easy to convince that butthole sex isn't the same thing as regular evil sexual intercourse.  When you put it that way they'll take it up the ass without any arguements, lol.
:P

****yawn****
what a crock.

Smegehead:
 Not necessary.

The definition of cult:
"According to the theological definition of the term, a cult is a group that denies essential biblical doctrine while claiming to be Christian or in harmony with true Christianity."

So someone who proclaims henotheism; belief in only one God for this planet but yet claims to be Christian, would be considered a member of a cult.

Or:
The belief that you must deny other religious organizations, so completely and to follow our thought and doctrines, that if you do not come to our way of beliefs, you cannot be a part of our community and organization.  You will be shunned.

These are the two most followed definitions of a cult.

Hope this clears things just a bit.

Brouhaha
That book and the ensuing film with the same name has been renounced by religious experts (both inside the LDS faith and outside of it), religious leaders (both inside and outside of the LDS faith), and other people who have the intelligence (both inside and outside of the LDS faith) to go to the "source".

If I wanted to know about something, I would not go to those who are its biggest critcs to get an objective review of that something.
Case in point: If you wanted to know about the Second Amendment and gun ownership, would you go to the the million mom's, Handgun Control Inc., or to those who despise gun ownership and the Second Amendment. Or would you go to the source (The Bill of Rights, The Constitution, Gun Owners)?

I am not asking you to believe what I believe, but I think that you WRONG in asserting that the God Makers is a credible source of information about the way the LDS faith functions.

If you want to know, just ask someone who is.
Ask a missionary, and do not worry, they won't make you a member of their "cult" unless you want to be one! [;)]

If that is not the way that you want to go, then go to the web site www.lds.org or any one of the others on the web that talk about the LDS faith. Draw your own conclusions about it, and do not expect to get a fair representation of anything if you get your information from those who are critics of what you are investigating.

Smeghead,
Wouldn't your mother be so proud!
I mean sexual exploits and such with LDS girls/women!
Wouldn't your wife or girlfriend be so proud!
You are such a stud!
You are the man!

Mocking other peoples religious beliefs.
I am sure that it makes you feel better.
I know that your mother would be so proud.
I am sure that your pastor(or who ever is the religious authority of your faith) would be proud of you too.
In fact, I am sure that what ever God you worship would be proud of you too!
There is no higher virtue than to mock others faith.
There is no higher virtue than to call women whores.

I do not give a damn if you had sex with LDS girls/women.
I do not give a damn if you mock my faith.

It all points to the fact that YOU, SIR, ARE A CROCK!

Ditto

Nice job, BYU.  Check your e-mail, bro.

Bud

I hate getting sucked in by an obvious troll but as a "Mormon" I am going to state unequivcably that you are a complete and total dumbass.  First, I doubt you are LDS but rather attempting to stir a pot that doesn't need stirring.  Second, you post in a public forum than say you do not care what the public thinks.  Third, if the Church takes a stand on the issue one way or the other, I would expect it will become a moot issue as those who attend are most likely going to abide by that decision.  

Now I refuse to respond more to this issue which has already fed  a troll way to much eccept to say your views do not represent those of the Church I call my own.  As to those of the same faith, other faiths or no faith who do not respect the religious beliefs of others, then I see very little difference between you and the Taliban.

BYU......TOM GREEN.  explain that one.  

btw, I'm catholic and you know what they say.....Mormons make the best Catholics.

You're full of crap, Smeg.
Everybody knows real LDS girls asses are way to tight to try anything like that.[:D]

Smeghead,
Tom Green is a stupid comedian from Canada. I think that he is married to Drew Barrymore. He has his own show on TV. Sometimes he is funny; sometimes he is an idiot.

As for the other Tom Green, he is not a member of the LDS faith. He is part of a group of people who do not agree with the tenents of the LDS faith and has decided to "re-engineer" it to suit himself. If you want to know more about this Tom Green, you would have to ask someone who is an expert on the 'religion' he practices, since he is not LDS and I am not an expert on Tom Green.

Actually, Catholics make the best LDS converts. I know, I am married to one.

I am not exactly sure what else to make out of your last post. Did you use to be a practicing Latter Day Saint? Are you now a practicing Catholic?

And just what has the catholic religion given us ??? How many people have been killed in the name of pope piusass and his loving followers ? how many alter boys have been, ummm, "anointed" by homo priests ??
Your statements about women/girls, whether LDS or not, show just how good a ctholic boy you are. given your obvious ass fetish, maybe you were one of those alter boys who was "annointed"
SPECTRE

Interesting view that Mormons have about "The God Makers" book and film.  My biological father converted to Mormanism over 20 years ago and was a practicing temple Mormon.

He wouldn't even talk to me about that book and said the exact same thing to me as Mormons on this thread have said.

Recently, he has come to understand that the Mormon Christ isn't the same as the Christ of the Bible.

The Mormon Christ is a created being and brother of Lucifer.

The Christian Christ is God, eternally pre-existent.

What matters is who Jesus is.  Either He was a created being, co brother of Lucifer- Mormonism

Or He is the eternal, without beginning, God who came and dwelt among us to die for our sins.

It doesn't matter whether you have a Christ dying on the cross for your sins if you don't have the right Jesus.

Only the eternal, one and only, God of the universe is qualified to pay for my sin on the cross and face his own wrath in my place.

He has rejected Mormonism and is now admitting to me that God Makers had it right in so much as the theological errors of Mormonism.  And the temple rituals.  He still is having a hard time swallowing some of the other stuff.

Mormons are not born again

They are Mormons.

Not trying to offend anyone here, but trying to explain some things.  Mormons are free to engage me on this privately if you want.

BYU,
do you believe you have the potential to become GOD, with a big G?  



Sounds a bit cultish to me.

THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT MORMONS ARE TAUGHT TO BELIEVE.

1.  The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration, Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce R. McConkie, p. 635. They teach there was an apostasy and the true church ceased to exist on earth.  

2. We need prophets today, the same as in the Old Testament, Mormon Doctrine, p. 606.  

3. The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, History of the Church, 4:461.  

4. If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation.  There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Mormon Doctrine, p. 670.

5. There are many gods, Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.  

6. There is a mother god, Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.  

7. God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321.  Joseph Smith,  Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.

8. After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.  

9. God the Father had a Father, Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105.

10. God resides near a star called Kolob, Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.

11. God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22.  

12. God is in the form of a man, Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.  

13. God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, Mormon Doctrine p. 516.

14. We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth, Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218.  

15. The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, Mormon Doctrine, page 129.  

16. The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," Mormon Doctrine, page 192.  

17. Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.  

18. A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god." Mormon Doctrine, page 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, page 8.  

19. God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 218, 1857; vol. 8, p.

15. - This one is disputed among many Mormons and not always 'officially' taught and believed.  Nevertheless, Young, the 2nd prophet of the Mormon church taught it.

20. Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856.  

21. Good works are necessary for salvation, Articles of Faith, p. 92.  

22. There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188.  

23. Baptism for the dead, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. II, p. 141. This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.  

24. There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, Mormon Doctrine, p. 348.

25. The Holy Ghost is a male personage, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, by Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, page 118; Journal of Discources, Vol. 5, page 179

That is correct!

BigDozer66

With or without the sign you can carry them! Just not concealed.[:D]

BigDozer66

you have some kind of catholic choirboy fetish you're not telling us?  lol, get a real fetish like earhole sex or nostril sex.

patsue,

I hope that your dad is happy!
No matter what religion a person worships, I hope that they are happy and are secure in their faith.

As to the remarks on Christ, here is a proclomation issued by the church on 1/1/01. This is what Latter Day Saints believe, not what you say we believe.
It was referenced off of the site www.mormons.org, which is a site wholly supported by the LDS church. You can link to it through www.lds.org.

"THE LIVING CHRIST
The Testimony of the Apostles
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

As we commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ two millennia ago, we offer our testimony of the reality of His matchless life and the infinite virtue of His great atoning sacrifice. None other has had so profound an influence upon all who have lived and will yet live upon the earth.

He was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New. Under the direction of His Father, He was the creator of the earth. “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3). Though sinless, He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. He “went about doing good” (Acts 10:38), yet was despised for it. His gospel was a message of peace and goodwill. He entreated all to follow His example. He walked the roads of Palestine, healing the sick, causing the blind to see, and raising the dead. He taught the truths of eternity, the reality of our premortal existence, the purpose of our life on earth, and the potential for the sons and daughters of God in the life to come.

He instituted the sacrament as a reminder of His great atoning sacrifice. He was arrested and condemned on spurious charges, convicted to satisfy a mob, and sentenced to die on Calvary’s cross. He gave His life to atone for the sins of all mankind. His was a great vicarious gift in behalf of all who would ever live upon the earth.

continued below

continued from above

We solemnly testify that His life, which is central to all human history, neither began in Bethlehem nor concluded on Calvary. He was the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, the Redeemer of the world.

He rose from the grave to “become the firstfruits of them that slept” (1 Corinthians 15:20). As Risen Lord, He visited among those He had loved in life. He also ministered among His “other sheep” (John 10:16) in ancient America. In the modern world, He and His Father appeared to the boy Joseph Smith, ushering in the long-promised “dispensation of the fulness of times” (Ephesians 1:10).

Of the Living Christ, the Prophet Joseph wrote: “His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:

“I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father” (D&C 110:3-4).

Of Him the Prophet also declared: “And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22-24).

We declare in words of solemnity that His priesthood and His Church have been restored upon the earth—“built upon the foundation of … apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Ephesians 2:20).

We testify that He will someday return to earth. “And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together” (Isaiah 40:5). He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him. Each of us will stand to be judged of Him according to our works and the desires of our hearts.

We bear testimony, as His duly ordained Apostles—that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son."

I'm done with this thread.  Ciao, baby!

1) This thread started out about packing in church.

As previously stated, carrying in church is no different than carrying anywhere else.  There is no place in ANY religion that prohibits the CARRYING of firearms.

2)  This thread served to remind me why I'm agnostic.

No one is right all the time.  Religion, in general, simply reinforces common decency and tolerance towards fellow human beings, and I truly respect that part of it.  It's the human interpretation that causes most of the problems.

3)  Anyone that says that someone else is wrong for worshipping another 'god' is probably not adhering to the spirit of their beliefs.

too much said already...

mmmmmm, earholes........
BTW, how about answering the question, hmmmmm ??
you know, the one about what have catholics done for us ??

Friends, countrymen, Americans,
There are two things to remember in religion:

1; There is a God.

2; You are not Him! Nor will you ever be. (That was the first sin...Satan said "I will be like God". He got his butt kicked out of Heaven for that.

It does not matter how much religion you have, what matters is your relationship with Jesus Christ.

As for me and my house we will carry our CCW as long as the law allows.

It is a God given right to keep and bear arms not a man given right.

Big(TheseThingsAreWrittenSoYouMayKnow!)Dozer66

Smeghead,
The subject of this post (carrying in church) within the context of this forum (guns) has little to do with the topic of discussion that you and I are talking about (belifes of the LDS faith).

If you want to discuss this through email, that would be better. I will not debate with you. I will not argue with you. I will not insult you(anymore).

I will, however, answer your questions and explain to you to the best of my knowledge what ever you want to know about the LDS faith.

If you want to put the LDS faith down, or call it false, or mock it, or its followers, that is not what I want to respond to. I have not put down your religion. Do not do it to mine.

I do not think that arguing the rightness or wrongness of any religion proves absolute rightness or wrongness. Religious conviction is dependant upon an individuals faith and they way that they feel in their heart. It is manifest in how they act and behave towards others. If you have questions, that is fine, I just think that emailing would be more appropriate.  

The same goes for anyone else who wants to join in.

Jesus charged Peter with establishing his church, St. Peter was the ROCK of the beginnings of Christianity.  What else do you need besides the rich history of the Catholic church as the first church of Christian civilization.  At least we don't believe in alien's being God or being able to become God.

BYU, answer the question.......

blah, blah, blah,  answer the question. let me pick out the exact part for you.
how many people have been killed in the name of the catholic church ?  remember the inquisition ?

yak, yak, yak, yak, you answer the question!  the crusades were justified and it's about time we go on another crusade.

Wow.


A quote of a qoute of a quote of a quote of a quote.

let's go for the record!!!!!! [bounce]

You two keep it up!
This is just too funny!
What is the record for quotes between angry board members?

Seriously,
why can't we be friends?
why can't we be friends?
OR
do you really want to hurt me?
do you really want to make me cry?
OR
Why can't we all just get along?

[bounce]

Gosh, I took my eyes off of this board for a couple of hours and look what you guys have done.  My advice:  Don't knock another man's gun, dog, truck, religion or woman.  Pretty much in that order.  As for me EVERY morning I load up my pockets with what is on top of my nightstand: wallet, comb, keys, coins and pistol.  Best.  Watch-Six

I'm right, you're wrong....just get used to it.

If it is a God given right and not a man given right, why do you say you will carry "as long as the law allows?"

TAKEDOWN!!  2 points to Rik!  Assume the position, gentlemen.

Sorry for the Smeg/Specish quote string. [;)]

CB

But that would eliminate 90% of the topics here. [:E]

Jesus wasn't talking about Peter being the rock that He would build His church on, He was refering to Himself as the Rock He would build His church on.  The Greek reveals this.

Matt. 16:18 "on this rock". The word for “Peter,” Petros, means a small stone (John 1:42). Jesus used a play on words here with petra which means a foundation boulder (cf. 7:24, 25). Since the New Testament makes it abundantly clear that Christ is both the foundation (Acts 4:11,  12; 1 Cor. 3:11) and the head (Eph. 5:23) of the church, it is a mistake to think that here He is giving either of those roles to Peter. There is a sense in which the apostles played a foundational role in the building of the church (Eph. 2:20), but the role of primacy is reserved for Christ alone, not assigned to Peter. So Jesus’ words here are best interpreted as a simple play on words in that a boulder-like truth came from the mouth of one who was called a small stone. Peter himself explains the imagery in his first epistle: the church is built of “living stones” (1 Pet. 2:5) who, like Peter, confess that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Christ Himself is the “chief cornerstone” (1 Pet. 2:6, 7). church. Matthew is the only gospel where this term is found (see also 18:17). Christ called it “My church,” emphasizing that He alone is its Architect, Builder, Owner, and Lord. The Greek word for church means “called out ones.” While God had since the beginning of redemptive history been gathering the redeemed by grace, the unique church He promised to build began at Pentecost with the coming of the Holy Spirit, by whom the Lord baptized believers into His body—which is the church.

Constantine started the Catholic Church.  Not Peter.  Jesus Christ started the church.  He is the chief cornerstone.

patsue

Well said, patsue.

BYU,
I appreciate your post in answer to my post regarding Christ.

Look carefully at my post.  Your quote never addressed any of what I said.  My point wasn't that Christ didn't exist before His incarnation, it is beyond that. Preexistence is NOT enough to define Christ.  

Jesus Christ is ETERNALLY preexistant 2nd person of the Godhead.  Diety was not given to Him, He has ALWAYS been Diety.

THe Morman Christ is ONLY preexistent

My Christ had no beginning

Yours did.

You worship a different Christ than I do.

That is the fact.

I don't care what else you may say, if your Christ is not ETERNALLY preexistent, He is a false Christ.

With all love, that is the fact.

My dad has rejected the created Christ for the Eternal, and I mean ETERNAL Christ.

whew.

Now, aren't we all glad we live in a country where we have freedom to worship as we choose?  And I don't begrudge you your freedom, I would die on the battle field for you to enjoy your freedom as I expect you would for mine.  Our discussion is simply an exchange of information as to why the Mormon Christ is different from the Christian Christ.  And if my words are percieved as a personal attack on Mormonism, it isn't.  

patsue

[img]www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif[/img] Thats just what my 4 year old says, although, I personally think your at least 1 or 2 years older than that.
go say 3 our fathers, 4 hail mary's and kiss the popes ring, that always makes things better.

I dont recall you saying which religion yours is ????

Patsue,
I will drop you an email. I do not have a problem with your posts, justs the posts of some other unsavory individuals with an ax to grind. Thanks for being a curteous and upfront individual.
Tony

Ponyboy,
It's not against the law to carry in church in Texas unless the church has posted a 30.06 sign at the doors. I haven't seen one yet at any place of worship. My wife is Mormon and I usually carry to/in/from church. We live in the Houston area.

Someone needs to drag "crow" back in here.

spectre,

Although many may not understand this, it is the truth.  I don't belong to a religion, and I don't claim to be religious.  

What I am is a man who read God's Word, and believed it.  And I took God at His Word that He loves me and provided what was nessesary so that my sin would never stand between He and I ever again.

And His program through history from the beginning, through His dealings with Israel, to now has been to redeem His beloved creation from the awful state and consequences of sin.

Sounds religious doesn't it?

Religion is a system.

I am not in a system.

I have a relationship.

I don't expect everyone to understand this, but there are some of you out there in AR15.com land that know exactly what I am talking about.

What am I? What religion am I?

I am a sinner saved by His grace.


The best answer I have.

hehe

Patsue

A 30.06 sign?  I've never taken a 30.06 to church, but if you want to it's ok with me. [:)]

I just wanted the 100th post.[;)]