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Posted: 3/31/2006 12:28:52 AM EDT
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7285683/

WASHINGTON - A 70-million-year-old Tyrannosaurus rex fossil dug out of a hunk of sandstone has yielded soft tissue, including blood vessels and perhaps even whole cells, U.S. researchers reported on Thursday.

Paleontologists forced to break the creature's massive thighbone to get it on a helicopter found not a solid piece of fossilized bone, but instead something looking a bit less like a rock.

When they got it into a lab and chemically removed the hard minerals, they found what looked like blood vessels, bone cells and perhaps even blood cells.

"They are transparent, they are flexible," said Mary Higby Schweitzer of North Carolina State University and Montana State University, who conducted the study.

She said the vessels were flexible and in some cases their contents could be squeezed out.

"The microstructures that look like cells are preserved in every way," added Schweitzer, whose findings were published in the journal Science.

"Preservation of this extent, where you still have this flexibility and transparency, has never been seen in a dinosaur before." Feathers, hair and fossilized egg contents yes, but not truly soft tissue.

Studying the soft tissues may help answer many questions about dinosaurs. Were they cold-blooded like reptiles, warm-blooded like mammals, or somewhere in-between? How are they related to living animals?

"If we can isolate certain proteins, then perhaps we can address the issue of the physiology of the dinosaur," Schweitzer said.

Of course, the big question is whether it will be possible to see dinosaur DNA. "We don't know yet. We are doing a lot in the lab now that looks promising," Schweitzer said.

To make sure she was seeing what she thought she was seeing, Schweitzer, a biologist by training, compared the Tyrannosaur samples with bone taken from a dead ostrich. She chose an ostrich because birds are thought to be the closest living relatives of dinosaurs and ostriches are big birds.

Both the dinosaur and ostrich blood vessels contained small, reddish brown dots that could be the nuclei of the endothelial cells that line blood vessels.

Taking the minerals out of both ostrich bone and the Tyrannosaur bone — a simple experiment that can be duplicated by anyone using a chicken bone, for example, and vinegar — yielded flexible fibers. Microscopic examination showed what look like bone cells called osteocytes in both.

The finding certainly shows fossilization does not proceed as science had assumed, Schweitzer said. Since the discovery, she has found similar samples of soft tissue in two other Tyrannosaur fossils and a hadrosaur.

The fossil was dug up out of Montana's Hell Creek Formation, a rich source of fossils.

"The specimen was very far away from road, (so) everything had to be done with a helicopter." The field team used standard procedure as they excavated the bones, wrapping them in plaster jackets before transporting them..

This particular dinosaur fossil was too big to lift and they reluctantly cracked a thighbone.

Usually paleontologists put preservatives on fossils right away, but Schweitzer has been trying to find soft tissue in dinosaur fossils, so this one was left alone.

Horner said he hoped museums around the world would start cracking open bones and looking for soft tissue in their fossils.

"Dinosaurs are relatively rare and we certainly think of Tyrannosaurus rex as being really rare — although it really isn't — so people tend not to want to cut holes into the bone or cut them in half," he said.

"But to study the cellular and molecular structures of these things you have to do that." The "good stuff," he said, is on the inside.

Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:32:58 AM EDT
sweet, thats sweeeeeeet, id love a clone of the thing, itd be the best animal at the zoo EVER
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:34:26 AM EDT
that is completley belivable.

dinos were only created >8k years ago anyway.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:36:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:36:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
that is completley belivable.

dinos were only created >8k years ago anyway.



Oh, now you went and did it.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:40:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
that is completley belivable.

dinos were only created >8k years ago anyway.



Oh, now you went and did it.



oh yes i went and did.

its the truth!
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:45:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackbag223:

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
that is completley belivable.

dinos were only created >8k years ago anyway.



Oh, now you went and did it.



oh yes i went and did.

its the truth!




OOO I'm taging this, ibtss
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:48:30 AM EDT
With laserbeams in their eyes!


Originally Posted By 50cal:
Clone a few and turn them loose on the Iranians. That would make great TV!

Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:53:50 AM EDT
Tag for ensuing reptillian carnage (and talk about the dinosaur stuff too).
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 1:02:25 AM EDT
I remember reading about this last year...
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 1:03:26 AM EDT


No! Bad! Drop it!




Eww, it's got spit all over it.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 1:05:44 AM EDT
Would anything less than .50 BMG put these things down?
Maybe .577 Tyrannosaur...
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 1:06:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NME:
I remember reading about this last year...




Nu uh.....

Yeah its old... First I had heard of it though.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 1:23:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 1:44:44 AM EDT by PromptCritical]

Originally Posted By Cold:
sweet, thats sweeeeeeet, id love a clone of the thing, itd be the best animal at the zoo EVER



Yeah, cause no one ever had that idea before, and look how THAT turned out...



Then again, this could be entertaining:

Link Posted: 3/31/2006 1:36:55 AM EDT
King Kong could kick that things ass



Originally Posted By PromptCritical:

Originally Posted By Cold:
sweet, thats sweeeeeeet, id love a clone of the thing, itd be the best animal at the zoo EVER



Yeah, cause no one ever had that idea before, and look how THAT turned out...

universe-review.ca/I10-57-JurassicPark.jpg

Then again, this could be entertaining:

trexajk.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/trex6.jpg

Link Posted: 3/31/2006 1:41:07 AM EDT
The soft tissue was found in Dick Cheneys refridgerator. It was frozen from the time he went hunting as a teenager.............
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 1:46:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mytwocents:
The soft tissue was found in Dick Cheneys refridgerator. It was frozen from the time he went hunting as a teenager.............



That was almost funny...
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 1:47:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mytwocents:
The soft tissue was found in Dick Cheneys refridgerator. It was frozen from the time he went hunting as a teenager.............



Link Posted: 3/31/2006 1:49:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
that is completley belivable.

dinos were only created >8k years ago anyway.



Oh, now you went and did it.



No doubt! Everyone knows they were really created <8K years ago.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 1:51:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:

Originally Posted By mytwocents:
The soft tissue was found in Dick Cheneys refridgerator. It was frozen from the time he went hunting as a teenager.............






He's a Maybe he'll get bored and leave...
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 1:57:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 50cal:
Clone a few and turn them loose on Tokyo That would make a great godzilla movie!


Fixed it for ya
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:06:40 AM EDT
Tag for the inevitable creationist vs everyone else bashfest.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:27:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:

Originally Posted By NME:
I remember reading about this last year...




Nu uh.....

Yeah its old... First I had heard of it though.



I completely forgot about it too...
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:37:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:39:45 AM EDT
so now i may have to worry about cloned dinosaurs as well as zombies???? when will it end?!?!
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:49:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 3:51:22 AM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:

Originally Posted By gus:

Originally Posted By mytwocents:
The soft tissue was found in Dick Cheneys refridgerator. It was frozen from the time he went hunting as a teenager.............






He's a Maybe he'll get bored and leave...



I think you have it back wards. Im bored thats why im here.
comments removed
Well so much for trying to be a comdian> Guess you get more respect being a clown like prompt critical. Hey and when you go screaming to the Mods about CoD vilations or anything similar.
Remember you started it
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:50:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
If the dinosaurs end up cloned and roaming this earth, their first mission will be to eat the hardcore creationists.

Except that they're probably inedible.


CJ



I hope the next on the list will be the tree-hugging hippies that "simply want to live in peace and harmony with these noble and misunderstood creatures"...



Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:51:37 AM EDT
IBTMoveToTheReligionForumBecauseSomePeopleOnB­othSidesOfTheDebate(AnyDebate)JustCan'tLetThr­eadsBe.

Cool if its real, though.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 3:04:52 AM EDT

I hope the next on the list will be the tree-hugging hippies that "simply want to live in peace and harmony with these noble and misunderstood creatures"...


Honestly that would be freaking awesome. If we cant clone dinosuars is there any way we can use Great white sharks in shallow 3 ft tanks? Or maybe like 5 declawed Lions with some teeth missing?
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 3:14:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 3:21:50 AM EDT
Sounds a lot like this audible.com book I just listened to

Link Posted: 3/31/2006 3:49:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:04:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By Soljah46:
so now i may have to worry about cloned dinosaurs as well as zombies???? when will it end?!?!



If a cloned t-rex eats a ZOMBIE, does that make it a cloned Trex Zombie?!

how the hell do we kill those?!



damn it man, why do you have to go and bring these things up. I guess the only way is to nuke it from orbit
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:06:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:08:48 AM EDT
Get that .50 now........
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:10:36 AM EDT


Sounds like an early April Fool's joke.

Soft tissue surviving for at least 65 milion years? I don't think so. It wasn't exactly hermetically sealed in a f^&*ing mayonnaise jar, folks....

Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:22:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 95thFoot:


Sounds like an early April Fool's joke.

Soft tissue surviving for at least 65 milion years? I don't think so. It wasn't exactly hermetically sealed in a f^&*ing mayonnaise jar, folks....




If you read the article you would have noticed that the tissue didnt survive it just wasnt fossilized.

as for the 8k comment. I guess that means you were born yesterday
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:24:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
that is completley belivable.

dinos were only created >8k years ago anyway.



Oh, now you went and did it.



That says greater than 8000 years. No one is arguing that age.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:27:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 95thFoot:


Sounds like an early April Fool's joke.

Soft tissue surviving for at least 65 milion years? I don't think so. It wasn't exactly hermetically sealed in a f^&*ing mayonnaise jar, folks....




The scientist in question (Mary Schweitzer) is an accepted member of the professional paleontological community. Her research is VERY controversial. She has a LOT of work to do to convince the rest of the scientific community that her evidence is real and cannot be explained with any alternative hypothesis. If she is right, it certainly will change our current understanding of the fossilization process, but few scientists will ever say that what she is claiming is absolutely impossible. Science doesn't deal with absolutes (unlike religion) it deals with probability, statistical likelihood, etc. The statistical likelihood that what Mary is saying is correct must still be viewed as remote.
It certainly gets people's attention, though.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:31:17 AM EDT
Tag for everything possible from this thread.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:33:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:33:38 AM EDT
I don't get the ><8000 years thing. What is that in reference to?
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:41:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:
I don't get the ><8000 years thing. What is that in reference to?



didn't you hear? the earth is 4500 year old!

Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:48:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:
I don't get the ><8000 years thing. What is that in reference to?



You need your ARFCOM card revoked.....

You know about get both, nuke from orbit, kool-aid, but not about the creationist view that the earth is 4500 years old.

From now on click on those 10 pagers............
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:51:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
I don't get the ><8000 years thing. What is that in reference to?



You need your ARFCOM card revoked.....

You know about get both, nuke from orbit, kool-aid, but not about the creationist view that the earth is 4500 years old.

From now on click on those 10 pagers............



Bullshit! Then how do you explain my MOTHER IN LAW?
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:59:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By Soljah46:
so now i may have to worry about cloned dinosaurs as well as zombies???? when will it end?!?!



If a cloned t-rex eats a ZOMBIE, does that make it a cloned Trex Zombie?!

how the hell do we kill those?!



That depends if it's a slow moving (Romero) dino-zombie or one of the new super fast (DotD 2004) dino zombies.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:09:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
With laserbeams in their eyes!


Originally Posted By 50cal:
Clone a few and turn them loose on the Iranians. That would make great TV!




Don't forget to mount several cameras on them so we can enjoy the show.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:10:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
that is completley belivable.

dinos were only created >8k years ago anyway.



+1
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:19:18 AM EDT
Not all christians subscribe to the seven day creation doctrine. I don't.

The word that was translated to "day" in Genesis has more than one meaning. I believe, and I think that it is obvious from the fossil record, that that word should have been translated to "age". An "age" is an indefinate period of time, possibly millions of years.

The bible that I use is translated "age", not "day". Furthermore, the story of Noah's flood is similarly misunderstood, due to similar issues.

In short, neither side of this issue is as smart as they think they are.

I guess this is why humility is considered a virtue. Pride keeps both sides from admitting that they might be in error.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:20:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 50cal:
Clone a few and turn them loose on the Iranians. That would make great TV!



Even Iran could waste a T-rex pretty fast...

tank rounds or even a ZSU-23-4 would bring 'em down pretty fast...
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:22:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nightdriver:
Get that .50 now........



Of the JM Browning original variety, plus some SLAP belts...
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