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Posted: 2/23/2006 11:53:27 AM EDT

[#1]

Not just no but HELL NO I wouldn't intervene.

My life is worth more than the contents of the cash register. My life is worth more than the clerk's life.

Posted: 2/23/2006 11:54:23 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
A lot of different answers posted about this topic. However, isn't it your duty (maybe even the law) to come to someone's defense if they are getting the shit beat out of them? Put yourself in the clerk's position. Let's say you live but are pretty seriously fucked up. And later on you find out one of the customers in the store had a CCW and just stood there while you were taken a beat down.

By God I'm getting involved. FUCK the perp. If he's dead from my bullets, then he can't testify in court. I like my odds of a SIG versus a tire iron.

I don't think that you are legally obligated to intervene physically in that scenario, but if you are a CHL holder and your are carrying then I think that you are absolutely morally obligated to intervene...especially if someone is being attacked with a weapon right in front of you.

If you shoot the person attacking the clerk with a tire iron and kill him, then there isn't a jury in the world that will convict you of anything (if the DA is even enough of a shitbrick to charge you with something). If the accomplice runs then let him go, if he attacks then shoot him too.

Posted: 2/23/2006 11:55:07 AM EDT

[#3]

Cowards, the lot of you.

Posted: 2/23/2006 11:55:15 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Not just no but HELL NO I wouldn't intervene.

My life is worth more than the contents of the cash register. My life is worth more than the clerk's life.

Posted: 2/23/2006 11:57:11 AM EDT

[#5]

Where are you Libertarians? Shouldn't the clerk have provided for his own well being and carried his own gun...?

(I'm not trying to provoke anything but being called a coward isn't sitting well with me.

)

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:01:10 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Cowards, the lot of you.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:01:31 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Where are you Libertarians? Shouldn't the clerk have provided for his own well being and carried his own gun...?

(I'm not trying to provoke anything but being called a coward isn't sitting well with me. )

many companies won't let you carry on the job.

many clerks are highschoolers or college students under 21 and cannot legally carry.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:04:21 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Where are you Libertarians? Shouldn't the clerk have provided for his own well being and carried his own gun...?

(I'm not trying to provoke anything but being called a coward isn't sitting well with me. )

many companies won't let you carry on the job.

many clerks are highschoolers or college students under 21 and cannot legally carry.

I know many companies won't let you carry. Mine doesn't.

As to the clerks, I get that too.

Maybe the companies should take more responsibility for their employee's welfare. Getting them beaten or shot should be something they do more than just a probability assessment on.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:06:27 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Where are you Libertarians? Shouldn't the clerk have provided for his own well being and carried his own gun...?

(I'm not trying to provoke anything but being called a coward isn't sitting well with me. )

+1

I wonder how much the "heroes" here would shit themselves when they hear that they're going to be charged with manslaughter for accidently popping the clerk during the shootout.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:08:42 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Cowards, the lot of you.

New on FOX.
Armed cowards caught on tape.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:09:56 PM EDT

[#11]

If its just $$, then no. If he is "wailing on the clerk" as you say, then intervention is called for.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:13:36 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Where are you Libertarians? Shouldn't the clerk have provided for his own well being and carried his own gun...?

(I'm not trying to provoke anything but being called a coward isn't sitting well with me. )

many companies won't let you carry on the job.

many clerks are highschoolers or college students under 21 and cannot legally carry.

I know many companies won't let you carry. Mine doesn't.

As to the clerks, I get that too.

Maybe the companies should take more responsibility for their employee's welfare. Getting them beaten or shot should be something they do more than just a probability assessment on.

in my area several of the convenience stores have THICK bulletproof glass that protects the clerk with a window which is opened to pass items/money through. not perfect but a hell of a lot better than nothing.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:16:04 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

in my area several of the convenience stores have THICK bulletproof glass that protects the clerk with a window which is opened to pass items/money through. not perfect but a hell of a lot better than nothing.

... Which also completely changes the situation. Clerk not getting wailed on, nothing. In fact this might convince a robber to focus on YOU - and of course, that's when the kid gloves come off and it gets loud...

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:24:35 PM EDT

[#14]

I would shoot the tire iron perp, & THEN TURN MY ATTENTION ON THE ACCOMPLICE IN CAS HE WAS FIXIN TO INGAGE ME!

Sorry about the caps, I'm a keyboard watcher, & to lazy to retype it.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:25:18 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
We went over a scenario just like this in a CCW class. About half of the class said they would intervene (shoot the perp).
Then, the istructor laid out this backstory: The perp was the father of a young girl who was fast becoming a junkie and the store clerk was a part-time dealer who sold to her. The father had been to the police and nothing had been done. He had warned the dealer earlier that day not to sell drugs to his daughter, and his daughter ended up in the hospital from an overdose that evening.

Now, not that the father isn't committing a crime or doing wrong, but wouldn't you have just a slight amount of guilty feeling if you killed a father who was trying to protect his daughter the only way he could think of at that point? The instructor's point was: You don't know what you don't know.

As for me, unless I'm 100 percent absolutely positive about the situation, or it directly affects my safety (or a loved one's safety), I'll be a very good witness for the cops...and that's all.

That's a ridiculous set of circumstances.

First, whether or not that person is selling drugs or not doesn't give anyone the Right to assualt, or attempt to kill him.
Second if the father is so concerned about drug use, he would deal with his daughter's addiction.
Third you can only act based on what you know at the time.
Fourth what if the robber you shoot claims he was only robbing because he had to feed his family, just lost his job......................... does it make him an less of a robber?

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:26:03 PM EDT

[#16]

"Intervene" with extreme prejudice.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:26:12 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Let's say you're in the local Quick Stop and, all of a sudden you see a perp at the counter with a tire iron in hi/her hands, and he/she is wailing on the clerk. Oh yeah, the perp also has an accomplice standing there too.

POLL

No. Stay out of it if possible. Try to seek an exit and get out of dodge.

When you pull out your weapon, things are going to get lethal if they haven't already.

If the bad guys start trying to kill people, then your hand is forced. Fight if you are willing to take the risk of dying for somebody else. Run if you are not.

If the bad guys come directly for you, try to get away. If you can't, fight. At that point you have no choice.

ETA -- Being heroic might seem the way to go, but in some situations pulling out your pistol and getting involved is the worst tactical option. The goal of self defense is to go home alive. Getting involved in someone else's fight can cause you to get killed.

Think long and hard about how much you are willing to risk for a perfect stranger.

There is no shame in avoiding a fight that isn't yours. After all, you are the one who bleeds if things go wrong, and it is your wife and kids that will have to bury you.

Think about that.

What a chicken crap excuse for cowardice.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:32:43 PM EDT

[#18]

Again the shop worn advice.

If they simply want money, give them money. Most of the time they will leave after getting the money.

If they do things that indicate they want more than just money, tying up people, making them leave the store, making them go into a backroom, telling them to get on the ground and cover their faces (aka the execution position), then it is more than a robbery. Fight back as if your life depended on it, because it DOES.

Walking in with 2 robbers and a fight going on, is BAD very bad. It may be the clerk didn't want to give up the (insured) cash, or the robbers are violence prone.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:44:33 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Again the shop worn advice.

If they simply want money, give them money. Most of the time they will leave after getting the money.

If they do things that indicate they want more than just money, tying up people, making them leave the store, making them go into a backroom, telling them to get on the ground and cover their faces (aka the execution position), then it is more than a robbery. Fight back as if your life depended on it, because it DOES.

Walking in with 2 robbers and a fight going on, is BAD very bad. It may be the clerk didn't want to give up the (insured) cash, or the robbers are violence prone.

The problem I always have with that is the number of times you see them grab the money... get pissed off it isn't enough or what they wanted.... and then bang.... clerk is shot and sometimes dead. Sometimes shot simply because they need a body to be a real bad-ass.

In this scenario, a tire-iron is a deadly weapon, and there is no way I'm standing still to be a good witness about who beat the cleark to death or very near. Beater is shot, and accomplice is too if he appears to attacking me or about to produce a weapon. If they haven't started hurting anyone then I'll do the witness thing. If they have a gun in hand that makes it tough. We all know full well a gun pointed at someone is a immediate deadly threat and if you wait for the shooting to start the good guy may well be dead.

Honesty I hope I never have to. There are so many traps waiting for a third party in those situations.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:45:33 PM EDT

[#20]

Depends. Only pick a fight you can win.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:46:08 PM EDT

[#21]

Remember that CCW holder who took on a rifle wielding psycho outside a courtroom a while back? That guy got in someone else's fight and ended up making his wife a widow. Giving your life to try and protect others is admirable, but that is an awful lot to give. Make sure you think about that in making your decision

While I understand the point your making. I completely disagree with you. While i would not interject myself into just any random fight for the hell of it. When you see others being attacked people need to step up and intervine. Sometimes the price might be high, but thats the price that must be paid to keep our society safe.

All that is nescesary for the triumph of Evil is that Good men do nothing""

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:48:01 PM EDT

[#22]

I'd only get involved if they were taking the last bag of Cheesy Poofs.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:51:13 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I'd only get involved if they were taking the last bag of Cheesy Poofs.

Ohhh bad post..................Cheezy Poofs suck buddy! Make it the last six pack of bud I might understand.

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:52:36 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd only get involved if they were taking the last bag of Cheesy Poofs.

Ohhh bad post..................Cheezy Poofs suck buddy! Make it the last six pack of bud I might understand.

When I said Cheesy Poofs, I meant 'Bud'....

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:55:14 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Depends. Only pick a fight you can win.

I'm goin to peck a fite!

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:57:54 PM EDT

[#26]

this is why I carry flash bangs everyplace I go

Posted: 2/23/2006 12:59:48 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
I would be a good witness but if someone was about to be hurt or they came towards me. Game on.

+1

Never get in somebody else's fight. You never know who's who. Unless they decide to include you of course.

Posted: 2/23/2006 1:30:00 PM EDT

[#28]

Well, if there was time for me to even think about intervening, then the clerk would be getting seriously beat down. He could easily be killed, or crippled for life. But since a tire iron isn't a projectile weapon, I wouldn't just shoot him. I'd draw down and yell loudly for him to drop the weapon. If he does, then he gets to live. If he looks like he might rush me or grab a more lethal weapon, then he's getting shot.

Posted: 2/23/2006 1:32:33 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Again the shop worn advice.

If they simply want money, give them money. Most of the time they will leave after getting the money.

If they do things that indicate they want more than just money, tying up people, making them leave the store, making them go into a backroom, telling them to get on the ground and cover their faces (aka the execution position), then it is more than a robbery. Fight back as if your life depended on it, because it DOES.

By that time it's too late. You're best off to draw the moment you see their gun come out. They are walking into a new situation, probably trying to assess where all of the potential threats are located, there is some adrenaline running and you're most likely to get 'em off guard. You can take the offense by engaging early on and changing the momentum of their robbery. They most likely have some sort of plan (no matter how stupid) and your immedate resistence is going to throw them off guard and toss their plan out the window. This will put them at a disadvantage. Their gun come out, your gun comes out.Don't wait around for anyone to start hustling people in the back room. By that time they have the situation under controll and you have less of an advantage. Now you are on the defensive and they have the advantage. Their plan has already moved several steps forward, their confidence is higher, they are probably a little calmer and they are ready to kill.

In that situation an immedate, violent response is 100% called for. They pull a gun then you pull your gun and shoot to kill. The law says that you are justified in doing so if you feel that there is an imminent threat and seeing a gun is definately an imminent threat.

Walking in with 2 robbers and a fight going on, is BAD very bad. It may be the clerk didn't want to give up the (insured) cash, or the robbers are violence prone.

Yeah, because now you are standing directly between the robber and his escape and his robbery keeps getting worse. That is a definite draw and shoot scenario. You just walked in the door, he can't escape without going through you. He's getting resistence and has engaged in a violent struggle over the cash register and now he has another witness to deal with. Bad juju!

Posted: 2/23/2006 1:43:08 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I would be a good witness but if someone was about to be hurt or they came towards me. Game on.

+1

Never get in somebody else's fight. You never know who's who. Unless they decide to include you of course.

Never is a big word bud.

Only a callous self righteous individual would stand by and watch another human being die if they could intervene with some confidence of doing so without overtly risking death.

Its a matter of circumstance. Surely you wouldn't stand by armed and watch some hazy eyed junky beat a petite young girl behind a counter to death with a tire iron? I don't care if the asshat was married to her, he'd be looking down the barrel and the wrong move his last.

Now hand over the money, its not my money and neither is it the clerks, typically.

Now make that a gun and I'm in the store with no way out...............see previous post made in error.

Tj

Posted: 2/23/2006 1:43:23 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Again the shop worn advice.

If they simply want money, give them money. Most of the time they will leave after getting the money.

If they do things that indicate they want more than just money, tying up people, making them leave the store, making them go into a backroom, telling them to get on the ground and cover their faces (aka the execution position), then it is more than a robbery. Fight back as if your life depended on it, because it DOES.

By that time it's too late. You're best off to draw the moment you see their gun come out. They are walking into a new situation, probably trying to assess where all of the potential threats are located, there is some adrenaline running and you're most likely to get 'em off guard. You can take the offense by engaging early on and changing the momentum of their robbery. They most likely have some sort of plan (no matter how stupid) and your immedate resistence is going to throw them off guard and toss their plan out the window. This will put them at a disadvantage. Their gun come out, your gun comes out.Don't wait around for anyone to start hustling people in the back room. By that time they have the situation under controll and you have less of an advantage. Now you are on the defensive and they have the advantage. Their plan has already moved several steps forward, their confidence is higher, they are probably a little calmer and they are ready to kill.

In that situation an immedate, violent response is 100% called for. They pull a gun then you pull your gun and shoot to kill. The law says that you are justified in doing so if you feel that there is an imminent threat and seeing a gun is definately an imminent threat.

Walking in with 2 robbers and a fight going on, is BAD very bad. It may be the clerk didn't want to give up the (insured) cash, or the robbers are violence prone.

Yeah, because now you are standing directly between the robber and his escape and his robbery keeps getting worse. That is a definite draw and shoot scenario. You just walked in the door, he can't escape without going through you. He's getting resistence and has engaged in a violent struggle over the cash register and now he has another witness to deal with. Bad juju!

+1 Things happen quickly. Don't assume you will have lots of time to assess a situation you already know is bad.

Posted: 2/23/2006 1:54:52 PM EDT

[#32]

OH yeah - Deniro in Taxi Driver style!

Posted: 2/23/2006 1:55:46 PM EDT

[#33]

I don't get a justifiable reason to shoot people very often so I think I'd jump at the opportunity.

Posted: 2/23/2006 1:56:57 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
I don't get a justifiable reason to shoot people very often so I think I'd jump at the opportunity.

Posted: 2/23/2006 2:16:45 PM EDT

[#35]

ANd, how about convenience stores or other stores, for that matter, where they have a "No Weapons" sign posted?

Posted: 2/23/2006 2:22:40 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
ANd, how about convenience stores or other stores, for that matter, where they have a "No Weapons" sign posted?

Well, either if you're in a store with a "No Weapons" sign posted and you have a gun, but you're afraid to use it because you might get in trouble then you deserve to get shot.

Posted: 2/23/2006 2:42:38 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
probably shake and shit my pants

That's probably what would happen to me. Just this past Sunday, and armed thug robbed the Food Lion 3 blocks from Mom & Dad's house. I though about it, if I were there and was carrying, and saw someone aiming a gun at someone, I would likely intervein. Assuming that there were no innocents in my line of fire, I just draw, aim, fire, and keep firing until the threat was neutralized.

Posted: 2/23/2006 2:45:17 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
ANd, how about convenience stores or other stores, for that matter, where they have a "No Weapons" sign posted?

Well, either if you're in a store with a "No Weapons" sign posted and you have a gun, but you're afraid to use it because you might get in trouble then you deserve to get shot.

No, not my point. Not afraid to use it to defend my wife or myself. But, fuck them and their store.

ETA: Since you are from TX, you may be amused by the following. In Katy Mills mall (yeah, wife begged) in KAty, TX, near Houston, they had a "No Weapons" sign. Also had a security camera above said sign. If anyone there is wondering who showed them the details of the manicure on a middle finger, it was I. And, yes I was carrying; and, no I didn't rob any little old ladies or stores; and, yes, if someone came in there bent on doing harm, I would have defended my wife or myself. The other sheeple could do what they wanted; the Texas men could, I'm sure take care of their families and themselves in similar fashion. To repeat my last sentence in the first paragraph, for the storeowners and managers who obviously want the policy, fuck them and their store. No, I am not given to gratuitous vulgarity, but I am fed up with a lot of things, and am getting crankier with age.

Posted: 2/23/2006 3:17:42 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

+1 Things happen quickly. Don't assume you will have lots of time to assess a situation you already know is bad.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

Those that said they would take action, and those that have said they wouldn't take action, have already made up their minds, regardless of the situation.

Posted: 2/23/2006 3:22:08 PM EDT

[#40]

Hide call on the cell and make sure not to be heard.

Posted: 2/23/2006 3:27:43 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
ANd, how about convenience stores or other stores, for that matter, where they have a "No Weapons" sign posted?

Well, either if you're in a store with a "No Weapons" sign posted and you have a gun, but you're afraid to use it because you might get in trouble then you deserve to get shot.

No, not my point. Not afraid to use it to defend my wife or myself. But, fuck them and their store.

ETA: Since you are from TX, you may be amused by the following. In Katy Mills mall (yeah, wife begged) in KAty, TX, near Houston, they had a "No Weapons" sign. Also had a security camera above said sign. If anyone there is wondering who showed them the details of the manicure on a middle finger, it was I. And, yes I was carrying; and, no I didn't rob any little old ladies or stores; and, yes, if someone came in there bent on doing harm, I would have defended my wife or myself. The other sheeple could do what they wanted; the Texas men could, I'm sure take care of their families and themselves in similar fashion. To repeat my last sentence in the first paragraph, for the storeowners and managers who obviously want the policy, fuck them and their store. No, I am not given to gratuitous vulgarity, but I am fed up with a lot of things, and am getting crankier with age.

Gotcha.

Posted: 2/23/2006 3:53:08 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Let's say you're in the local Quick Stop and, all of a sudden you see a perp at the counter with a tire iron in hi/her hands, and he/she is wailing on the clerk. Oh yeah, the perp also has an accomplice standing there too.

POLL

I read the poll anwers first....glad I didn't answer until AFTER reading your explanation of the situation.

Yes, if the clerk is being beated with a tire iron, if I had not already left the store, I would intervene on the grounds of saving the clerk's life. It ain't about the robbery, it's about the assault/attempted murder of the clerk.

Now, for clarification, if I am in the store and some guy walks in to rob the place and pulls a gun...I am not gonna just whip out my gun and start shooting.
IF he grabs the money and runs, money is insured, and everyone is okay...I'll give a description to the police.
Conversely;
If he shoots the clerk, I will assume I (or my family) is next and act upon it.
If he tries to herd us all together and isn't making a grab & run robbery, I will assume he has bad plans for the group of us and will act when given opportunity. By this time he has most likely already pointed a gun at me or my family.

Discalimers: IANAL, IANALEO, YMMV, JMHO

No Expert

Posted: 2/23/2006 4:12:07 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
What a chicken crap excuse for cowardice.

Well gee, rambo. I never knew that deciding not to engage in a potentially lethal firefight was cowardice.

You feel free to involve yourself in someone else's fight and risk getting killed if you want.

But there isn't a SINGLE DECENT FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR IN THE UNITED STATES who is going to advocate being hasty to involve yourself in someone else's gunfight.

I suppose they are all cowards to, right? Even the former members of Special Forces units and SWAT teams with ACTUAL COMBAT EXPERIENCE???

Yup! Just big ol' cowards! Every one of em!!!

Stop watching so damn many movies and wake the heck up.

Posted: 2/23/2006 4:13:29 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
What's that quote? "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing"...something like that.
I guess I'd get involved. Don't know why, guess it's my nature. Sure, maybe the badguy would just take the money and run. This time. What about next time? Maybe he decides to shoot everyone for shits and giggles and instead of me being in there it's my wife and daughters. You can't turn back time and say "If only I would of.............."

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
- Edmund Burke

No Expert

Posted: 2/23/2006 4:14:36 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
While I understand the point your making. I completely disagree with you.

That is your perogative.

While i would not interject myself into just any random fight for the hell of it. When you see others being attacked people need to step up and intervine. Sometimes the price might be high, but thats the price that must be paid to keep our society safe.

All that is nescesary for the triumph of Evil is that Good men do nothing""

If you make the decision to involve yourself, so be it. But realize that you might very well end up dead.

A CCW is not a hero license and it doesn't protect you from getting killed.

Decide with all the facts. That is all I am saying here.

This isn't the movies. In real life, the good guys can end up dead. People can get tunnel vision real easy and deal with the obvious threat only to be hammered by someone they didn't see.

Even if it goes well, it isn't pleasant to watch someone die. Especially when you took action (no matter how justified it may have been) to cause their death.

Posted: 2/23/2006 4:21:47 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
- Edmund Burke

No Expert

And sometimes good men pay the ultimate price for doing good things.

People need to realize that. They need to think long and hard about widowing their wife and not being there for their kids.

I am not advocating cowering in fear here, just having a sober realization of the reality facing you in such a situation. Most people just swallow a bunch of hero bullsh*t and don't realize that there is no reset button in a real gunfight.

There is a reason why decent trainers teach escape if at all possible. It may not seem very macho, but avoiding the fight is the only real way to win it.

I posted a while back about an armed robbery of a gas station that I just barely missed. I saw the guy who did it, saw that he looked jumpy, and could feel in my gut that something bad might just go down. I got my loved ones out of there as quickly as possible and never looked back. I found out later that evening that he pulled his weapon and robbed the place not 5 minutes after I left.

Some people may believe that to be "chicken crap cowardice" because I didn't leap to action in John Wayne style, but I don't give a damn. My concern was making sure I didn't have to bury any of my family members and I really didn't give a damn about anything else at the time.

Posted: 2/23/2006 4:22:23 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Not just no but HELL NO I wouldn't intervene.

My life is worth more than the contents of the cash register. My life is worth more than the clerk's life.

Ehh, you are in Kalifornia...you don't get much of a choice anyway.

No Expert

Posted: 2/23/2006 4:35:26 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
ANd, how about convenience stores or other stores, for that matter, where they have a "No Weapons" sign posted?

Good question. I've never seem one of those...but, truth being is that if I did see one, wouldn't be in that store when it was getting robbed.
After the robbery I mught write a letter to the newspapers editorial page, making a statement about how the crime/murder might never have happened if the criminal hadn't been assured of his safety because of a sign that prohibits a LEGAL CCW holder from being in the store to interfere with his criminal activity.

No Expert

Posted: 2/23/2006 4:42:29 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
- Edmund Burke

No Expert

And sometimes good men pay the ultimate price for doing good things.

People need to realize that. They need to think long and hard about widowing their wife and not being there for their kids.

I am not advocating cowering in fear here, just having a sober realization of the reality facing you in such a situation. Most people just swallow a bunch of hero bullsh*t and don't realize that there is no reset button in a real gunfight.

There is a reason why decent trainers teach escape if at all possible. It may not seem very macho, but avoiding the fight is the only real way to win it.

I posted a while back about an armed robbery of a gas station that I just barely missed. I saw the guy who did it, saw that he looked jumpy, and could feel in my gut that something bad might just go down. I got my loved ones out of there as quickly as possible and never looked back. I found out later that evening that he pulled his weapon and robbed the place not 5 minutes after I left.

Some people may believe that to be "chicken crap cowardice" because I didn't leap to action in John Wayne style, but I don't give a damn. My concern was making sure I didn't have to bury any of my family members and I really didn't give a damn about anything else at the time.

I usually don't worry about this much. You'd be surprised how many people who are full of piss and vinegar do the right thing when the time comes.

Common sense comes real fast when its SHTF.

Tj

Posted: 2/23/2006 4:52:12 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
- Edmund Burke

No Expert

And sometimes good men pay the ultimate price for doing good things.
Yes, that is true...and a damn shame when it happens, no doubt about that.

People need to realize that. They need to think long and hard about widowing their wife and not being there for their kids.
I agree with you 100%. I did not take lightly my decision to get a CCW, it is for my (and my families) protection...anyone else that happens to benefit from it is just lucky.

I am not advocating cowering in fear here, just having a sober realization of the reality facing you in such a situation. Most people just swallow a bunch of hero bullsh*t and don't realize that there is no reset button in a real gunfight.
I actually had no confrontation with your responses, I was merely providing the quote for someone who asked about it and could not remember it. My actual answers to the original post/poll are in my reply a few before the one you quoted. I was pretty clear in where I stand, no heroics, but right is right.

There is a reason why decent trainers teach escape if at all possible. It may not seem very macho, but avoiding the fight is the only real way to win it.
I agree again. Go back and read my anwer post, we probably don't think too much differently. In the specifics of the example given in this thread, I would intervine in someone getting beaten (possibly to death) with a tire iron in the scenario listed.

I posted a while back about an armed robbery of a gas station that I just barely missed. I saw the guy who did it, saw that he looked jumpy, and could feel in my gut that something bad might just go down. I got my loved ones out of there as quickly as possible and never looked back. I found out later that evening that he pulled his weapon and robbed the place not 5 minutes after I left.
You did right (IMO) by clearing your family...I would have likely done the same thing. Did you have any information of value to the police? Did you, or were you willing to, offer assistance after the fact of that information?

Some people may believe that to be "chicken crap cowardice" because I didn't leap to action in John Wayne style, but I don't give a damn. My concern was making sure I didn't have to bury any of my family members and I really didn't give a damn about anything else at the time.
You "felt" something wrong and you left....self preservation is not cowardice. Should you have jumped the guy and been an idiot (and a then a criminal yourself) had you been wrong about him? No.

No Expert

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Would you intervene in a convenience store holdup? (Page 2 of 3)

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