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Posted: 2/22/2006 6:43:08 PM EDT
The Ohio Trooper vid wants me to ask this question.

You are driving down the road and see a pulled over vehicle and a cruiser on the shoulder. You see a LEO struggling on the ground with a perp. Would you stop to help? Would you actually get involved or just call for help?

I think I would have to park my car and physically help. I may ask the officer if he needs help first so he doesnt shoot me but I dont think I could just drive by.

What would you do?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:44:14 PM EDT
I would stop to render any assistance I could. I would hope others would do the same if my brother was in a similar situation.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:44:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 6:46:26 PM EDT by ARDOC]
I could also see how the LEO may find someone else running towards him as a threat. Or other LEOs showing up and seeing you as a threat.

There is that VID of the fat lady helping a fighting LEO. She runs to the scene and does a belly flop on the bad guy! That was entertaining.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:45:46 PM EDT
Help! Not sure how, i.e. calling for help on the radio, or balls in ass stompin', but I guess it depends on how bad it looks.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:45:54 PM EDT
Call 911 (or use my radio if I have it on me) and then help out (while displaying my badge and physically saying I'm with XYZ PD).
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:46:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 6:46:24 PM EDT by falaholic1]
Well if the cop is struggling on the ground and you go hit the bad guy in the jaw, im sure he'll see what side you're on.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:46:25 PM EDT
As a former LEO, I'd stop and help him immediately. There'd be no time to call and he needs you NOW.

HH
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:48:07 PM EDT
As Joe Citizen I am not sure what I would do.


I would not want to be mistaken for the perp when Back Up arrives.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:49:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:50:17 PM EDT
if it's a K-9 unit, i'd shoot his dog, then help him.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:50:57 PM EDT
Hard to say. I would definitely want to help, but I would make sure I could approach without getting shot be the LEO thinking I was a threat. Kinda depends on how I read the situation. If the LEO was in serious trouble, I would help since he probably wouldn't notice my approach.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:51:54 PM EDT
Being a L.E.O. I would jump in and help.

Before I was a L.E.O. I would still jump in and help.

_________________________


Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:52:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:53:30 PM EDT
I'd help.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:54:45 PM EDT
I say its pretty important to call if at all possible before jumping in. Atleast go into the fight with the phone in contact with 911. This way you have additional units comng your way in case things go even more side-ways.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:58:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
There is that VID of the fat lady helping a fighting LEO. She runs to the scene and does a belly flop on the bad guy! That was entertaining.



Who's got a link? We'd love to see that.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:58:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 6:58:45 PM EDT by HarrySacz]
I would help but i would yell '' i am going to help you officer'' or something to that effect to make sure he knows i am on his side. It would be just plain stupid to run up and jump in, you might get shot.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:01:22 PM EDT
In that particular case the bad guy would have a bullet in his head by the Trooper and waffle marks from my stompers on his facial area.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:03:18 PM EDT
Not to steal from your post, but that happened to me once. I was on duty and had stopped a guy that was looking into a window. (A frigging peeping tom) To make a long story short he pulled out a knife very very quickly from about 3 feet. No time to draw and shoot that close. All I could do was hold the hand he had the knife in and we both rolled around on the ground for what seemed like an hour. Then a car pulled up. It's 1am and I see this car pull up as we are both fighting for the knife. I thought for sure they were going to jump in with this guy and finish me off. But no, they called 911 and I could hear some lady in the car yelling to the dispatcher that a police officer was fighting with someone on the ground. The troops got there since they weren't that far off and luckily no one was hurt seriously. I was so thankful that lady stopped, and I definately let her know about it. I owe a lot to that fine citizen.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:03:21 PM EDT
I had an ex police officer in one of my training classes tell us that what we should do in any situation like this is to call 911 and remove ourselves to a safe location. He laid out several scenarios that led us down the garden path of helping and winding up in a shitload of trouble. I've heard the same from other instructors and it got me thinking, under those circumstances it's easy to make a mistake that you'll spend the rest of your life regretting.

I don't think I could just drive by, but I don't think that I could just dive in and start punching or shooting. I think the best thing I could do under the circumstances, assuming the officers isn't in imminent danger of losing his life, is to call 911 and obverse the situation.

And no, I don't like the sound of that, I'd want to dive in and be a hero, but after those classes I think I'd be a fool not to call 911 first and see if the Officer couldn't get it under control without me physically intervening. At worse, if I do intervene and get hurt, I know help is on the way, or if I get pegged as one of the bad guys I've got the phone call on record.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:06:52 PM EDT
www.2theadvocate.com/news/2353411.html

This guy jumped in to help and all its going to get him is sued.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:07:24 PM EDT
I purposefully do not rubber-neck at accidents or other flashing-light events so I might miss a struggling officer on the side of the road.

However, if I did see ONE officer struggling with someone, I pull over and render aid ASAP.

One officer struggling and another officer on-scene providing backup, I drive on.

If that 2nd officer is busy with others from the vehicle stop, I'll probably stop & provide moral support (or more if necessary)

I have an idea that MOST people would be hard-pressed to see what is going on and make a decision with a 1-second glimpse of the situation as they drive by.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:09:29 PM EDT
I would never leave a brother officer in trouble. I haven't seen the video, but my course of action would probably be to run to the car and use the car radio to call for help, then jump in myself - while making sure I verbally ID'd myself as a police officer. If I felt there was no time for the radio call then I would act immediatly.


-K
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:12:56 PM EDT
I can't envision many situations where I would not help.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:16:06 PM EDT
game on
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:17:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
I could also see how the LEO may find someone else running towards him as a threat. Or other LEOs showing up and seeing you as a threat.

There is that VID of the fat lady helping a fighting LEO. She runs to the scene and does a belly flop on the bad guy! That was entertaining.



I need a linK!
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:18:22 PM EDT
well, intervening could have problems - like what if the cop was a bad cop and was trying to kill the motorist? who would you rescue, how would you know, and how would you go about it?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:19:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:
well, intervening could have problems - like what if the cop was a bad cop and was trying to kill the motorist? who would you rescue, how would you know, and how would you go about it?




Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:22:57 PM EDT
Any police officer in distress is entitled to assistance unless there is a damned good reason to refrain - like, he's getting his ass whipped by the President. That would give me pause. Otherwise, I'm on the cop's side, and a judge can tell me later that the cop and I were wrong.

Now, in the grotesque NOLA/national gun grab scenario. . . .
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:24:38 PM EDT
link to vid please.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:30:14 PM EDT
Faced this a few years ago. Cop appreciated the help.

SRM
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:37:45 PM EDT
Yes....Hell Yess.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:03:47 PM EDT
I don't think it's a legally or philosophically sound thing to do, but the frosted side of me says I'd help out ANYone, even the dreaded JBT's, if they were getting their asses handed to them.

Then if they tried to screw me legally, me and the guy that was beating him up in the first place can go find out where he lives and beat him up again. (this is a joke)
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:45:49 PM EDT
No. Too much can go wrong. I am not going out of my way to look for trouble to get into.

If my life is in danger, and deadly force would be justified... then yes.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:49:33 PM EDT
Be very careful when considering this. As a career law enforcement officer, I have witnessed numerous civilians helping officers or at least attempting to help an officer when a situation arose. It really all depends on context and use of your judgement.

If an officer is physically struggling with a suspect and appearing to have a problem, let the officer know that you are willing to help and make sure he understands you before you get too close. Since time is of the essence and these situations are over with in a matter of seconds in most cases, you will not have time to call 911 until the situation is resolved. DO NOT display or otherwise brandish a weapon. On the other hand, If you come upon a wounded or deceased officer, get 911 on the telephone before doing ANYTHING.

A perfect example of civilian assistance gone awry was during the Benji Hodges shooting back in the early 1990s. A South Carolina State Trooper pulled over a DUI suspect and a physical altercation ensued. The Trooper was shot in the balistic vest 4 times with a .22 LR Derringer by the suspect and in defense the Trooper shot the suspect 5 times with a .357 magnum. The suspect rolled off the side of the roadway severely wounded, but while Benji was making his radio call for assistance, the suspect managed to fire off the last round in his Derringer. This final round penetrated Benji's vest and killed him almost instantly.

Several truckers stopped to help assist at the scene. One of the truckers had a .380 auto in his hand while rushing to the scene to help Benji, having witnessed the shooting from his rig. A few seconds later, several other Troopers and deputies arrived responding to the original distress call. Upon seeing the trucker standing over Benji with the .380 in his hand...well, you do the math. You do not want to find yourself in this situation, trust me. The trucker, though his intentions were honorable, was severely beaten, sprayed, cuffed, and god-knows what else before the tape in the cruiser was viewed several hours later. Dead or badly hurt officers lead to severe tunnel vision when it comes to assisting law enforcement officials.

Just use your God-given brains and some common sense. I know that if I needed help, I am not going to complain about you helping me - as long as you don't look like a second perp coming up to jump on my back.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:00:59 PM EDT
What if its an undercover cop beating the crap out of pervert dressed as a cop?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:04:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By racer934:
I would stop to render any assistance I could. I would hope others would do the same if my brother was in a similar situation.



+1

depending on the extreamity of the situation i would either call 911 (spread the news!) first

if it were very bad and immediate aid is needed, i would jump in, declaring my intentions (if possible and logical) first

i would NOT just drive on by though--
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:04:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 9:12:50 PM EDT by CAAAwarfighter]

Originally Posted By TigAR:
www.2theadvocate.com/news/2353411.html

This guy jumped in to help and all its going to get him is sued.



www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=10&t=26807&page=1

There were two big developments Monday in the case of a motorist who was shot and killed along Greenwell Springs Road Friday after a fight with a police officer. Investigators say an autopsy shows the deadly bullet was fired by a bystander, not the officer. Police also announced that no charges would be filed in the case, either against the police officer involved or the bystander who fired the fatal shot into the head of George Temple.

East Baton Rouge Sheriff's spokesman Greg Phares says Officer Brian Harrision was escorting a funeral procession Friday when he pulled Temple over and wrote him a ticket for breaking into the procession. According to Phares, that's when Temple attacked Harrison. Police say Perry Stevens was walking outside of the Auto Zone on Greenwell Springs Road when he heard Harrison yelling for help. Harrison was reportedly on his back with Temple on top of him. That's when Stevens went to his car and grabbed his .45 caliber pistol.

According to Col. Greg Phares, "[Mr. Stevens] orders Mr. Temple to stop and get off the officer. The verbal commands are ignored and Mr. Stevens fires four shots, all of which struck Mr. Temple."

Perry Stevens fired four shots into Temple's torso. Officer Harrison had already fired one shot into Temple's abdomen. With Temple still struggling with the officer, Perry continued to advance toward the scuffle.

"He again orders Mr. Temple to stop what he was doing and get off the officer. Those commands are ignored and he fires a fifth shot and that hits his head. The incident is over with, and as you know, Mr. Temple is dead."

Police are calling the shooting death justified. Perry Stevens has a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Col. Phares would not give out any more details relating to the shooting. Both Phares and Baton Rouge Police Chief Jeff LeDuff stopped short of crediting Stevens with saving the officer's life. LeDuff says the entire incident is unfortunate.

"I spoke with his father at the scene briefly," said LeDuff. "I think this is a tragic situation all around."

9 News is told George Temple has a criminal record, and Officer Harrison was involved in a shooting while employed as a prison guard in East Baton Rouge Parish, where he was suspended for three days back in 1995.


www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4527526
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:09:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
if it's a K-9 unit, i'd shoot his dog, then help him.



Fair enough.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:15:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:16:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
What if its an undercover cop beating the crap out of pervert dressed as a cop?



You never know, sad to say in these times it is better to just call it in and not get personally involved
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:21:53 PM EDT
In the presented scenario...

It's hard to tell. Why are they fighting? Is the bad guy pissed about the cop giving him a ticket, fugitive trying to get away...

Or is the cops a thieving prick trying to "confiscate" something the guy had on him? We've all heard of it happening. Hell a friend of mine lost his $15 gerber pocket knife to a cop that said it was common place to comfiscate weapons during traffic stops. The cop didn't give him a ticket though, guess he didn't want a paper trail of the encounter...

So first thing would be to stop the fight. How? I'd have to decide on the scene.

Then, once the guy not in uniform is in cuffs I find out what's going on. If the cop won't say I ring more police. If he won't say anything to the guy that just saved his ass somethings up and I make sure more cops are on the way.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:29:56 PM EDT
I'd help and just hope the P.D. would scratch my back in the civil law suit I'm sure would follow
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:38:33 PM EDT
I have jumped in and helped police officers one time.
I ran an all ages club/video arcade when I was in my early twentys, I saw a guy that looked a few years older then myself start hanging around, he had some prison tats and his face was pretty broken up and scarred. I approached him and asked him how old he was after I saw him talking to a bunch of the young girls that came ina nd hung out and saw concerts. He said he was 19. I thought he was a bunch older then 19, and I was right. The next day I saw him hanging out in the parking lot, drinking a beer. I went and grabbed a cop who worked parking lot security and told her I thougth the guy was a con and could she go give him a hard time for drinking, since he claimed he was 19. She said sure and approached him, saw the beer and asked for ID, he handed her 3 different ID's and as she glanced at them he turned and ran, she called the local pd and they put the word on him.
Fast forward a few hours later, the club owners brother and myself went to grab some chow down the street on foot, we saw the guy, saw a cop grab him and start to try to cuff him, a cruiser pulled up then and they srated fighting. I saw the guy take a solid 5-10 shots with a baton on the legs and he wasn't phased, and these 2 officers, one of whom I knew were having a time of it. We ran over and I asked if they wanted me to help out and the cop I knew said fuck yes this guy is high as a kite! We get him down and they cuff him and then strap his feet together, we get up and he tries to bite one of the cops, so he drops the guy on his face. He is yelling that he is going to kill me and the female officer and all other kinds of madness.
Fast forward a few days later, I find out the guy is a SIX TIME convicted rapist who is 26 and always used a weapon in his crimes. The day after I find this out I am smoking in front of the club and sweeping up, and like magic he is walking down the street right at me, he's a good sized guy and I saw what kinda fight he gave to the two cops. I was armed at the time and thought " oh shit, this guy is going to shoot me or stab me". He walks closer with his hands where I can see them, I said something I heard you wanted to kill me? He replied you'll get yours motherfucker or something like that, and walked almost into me. Some things happened after this that I would rather not elave a written record of, police were called by a business owner next to us and he got arrested again for assault and I was the innocent victim who was defending himself. One of the cops I helped was the one who responded. Helping him paid of in a number of ways, I would do it again in a second.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:41:38 PM EDT
Yes and have helped.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:58:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
The Ohio Trooper vid wants me to ask this question.

You are driving down the road and see a pulled over vehicle and a cruiser on the shoulder. You see a LEO struggling on the ground with a perp. Would you stop to help?



Yes.



Would you actually get involved or just call for help?



It depends on the situation. If I perceive it to be bad enough, I will try to immediately use whatever force is necessary to stop the attack against the officer.



I think I would have to park my car and physically help. I may ask the officer if he needs help first so he doesnt shoot me but I dont think I could just drive by.

What would you do?



Someone attacking one of the cops in my town is the same sort of scumsucking weasel who would attack me or my family. I have no intention of letting a scumbag like that kill one of the cops I entrust with authority. His authority is derived from my will, and an attack upon him is an attack upon me.

Besides, I have no intention of looking myself in the mirror every morning knowing I probably could have stopped the death of a cop if I had done something.

I don't want to get into a life or death fight at all. But letting a good person die and an evil person live is a worse option than killing an evil person any day.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:01:15 AM EDT
I would yell "POLICE OFFICER, STOP", you know to call for any other cops around and tell the bad guy to stop. Then I woul get the bad guy in an Rear Naked Choke or put a few rounds in his ass.

But after I yelled for the police and told the bad guy to stop.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:01:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
What if its an undercover cop beating the crap out of pervert dressed as a cop?



Then you get some popcorn and watch the show.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:07:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
if it's a K-9 unit, i'd shoot his dog, then help him.




Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:41:50 AM EDT
I'm in.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:50:48 AM EDT
Call 911 for sure. Depending on what I was witnessing, I also feel like I would have to jump in to help. But I also suspect that could end up to be a mistake in many circumstances.

As a civilian, what would LE want me to do? Definately curious about that.
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