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Posted: 2/22/2006 1:24:50 PM EDT
[#1]
just reaffirms my opinion of frats.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 1:25:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Liquored Up Idiots Sliced ?? rj |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 1:27:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Psst, Oswego IS in NY. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 1:30:55 PM EDT
[#4]
This whole thing is complete horseshit.
I'm amazed at how the parents are making attempts at victimizing their kids. "Oh, it was just vandalism, they only broke a few windows. We shouldn't have to be making funeral arrangements". Fu** that. Too many people seem to have a mentality that they can do whatever the hell they want with no consequences. The guy was in his house, sleeping. Then three asshats start breaking shit. There's no way a reasonable person wouldn't be in fear for their life. Once they finally got the confrontation they wanted, they ended up getting owned. End of story. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 1:32:44 PM EDT
[#5]
WE HAVE A WINNER! |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 1:35:14 PM EDT
[#6]
Unless it's the death/killing of unborn children or retarded people. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 1:36:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Yes they would have! |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 1:38:21 PM EDT
[#8]
+1 and I graduated college in 92. Looks like some things have not changed. We called them "Zip Between Thighs" but that is probably giving them too much credit. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 1:42:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Just goes to show you that just because mommy and daddy can afford a college education does not mean that common sense is included.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 1:50:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Actually NY has a fairly strong self-defense provision in the PL. Oswego is a red county in NY as well. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 1:53:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Damn....2 lived....
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:04:45 PM EDT
[#12]
District Attorney Donald H. Dodd told Oswego City Judge James Metcalf Tuesday that “exculpatory evidence” will be presented on Christopher Motola's behalf at the hearing. Dodd said he anticipates a series of witnesses will testify.
According to the LAW.COM dictionary, exculpatory evidence is evidence that “may justify or excuse a defendant's actions and tend to show the defendant is not guilty or has no criminal intent.” Ok. So if the DA presents this new evidence, the Judge agrees, does this mean he will be acquitted and can never be charged again? Double Jepoardy? |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:08:27 PM EDT
[#13]
They vandalized the home and taunted the residents inside, they did not enter. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:08:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Keep us posted. I did my own searches on this. News articles lack detail/useful info. Seems like police are not saying much. I would wager the "survivors" told a story that Motola initiated the "confrontation"/violence. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:11:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Y'all have to admit that is pretty bad ass. 3 on 1 and the one whips all three with a knife. I guess we should all beware of the man with just a knife.
 In all seriousness the more shit like this happens the more people should think before destroying or tresspassing with malice intent on someone's property. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:11:59 PM EDT
[#16]
That was a preliminary hearing to determine whether there is reasonable cause to believe the defendant committed a felony, he could theoretically still be indicted even if the prelim goes his way.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:13:00 PM EDT
[#17]
As stated before, if they came within arms reach of the owners knife, odds are they were looking for it. Hard to believe the guy would have been able to chase down all three kids and give them the business if they hadn't been coming at him. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:15:27 PM EDT
[#18]
This happened in the City of Oswego, which now has a Democrat mayor, the city swings back and forth while the rest of the county is pretty much Republican. There was a Republican mayor up til recently news10now.com/content/top%5Fstories/?ArID=49826 Also there have been about 6 changes in Police Chief this year www.wstm.com/Global/story.asp?S=3966203&nav=2aKD |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:23:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quick let's ban knives, they kill people.
Chlorine in the gene pool, at least one was prevented from polluting society with his DNA. In Texas this wouldn't have made the news, or maybe more like this. "Local man defends self from attack, kills one assailant seriously injures two others" |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:24:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Is that a problem or just a correction? |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:31:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Frat boy took the silver medal in a knife fight.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:34:27 PM EDT
[#22]
more like it. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:01:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Frat boys out to "vandalize" (that's a crime still right?) a rival fraternity. check Frat boys pick wrong house (possible intoxication?). check Frat boys proceed to do property damage (that's a criminal act too right?). check Frat boys verbally taunt resident to come outside (threats made is a crime right?). check Frat boys wounded and killed by homeowner defending himself. check Frat boys listed as victims and innocent defender accused of crimes. WTF? No Expert ETA: BAN the FRATS! Do it for the children! One boy is DEAD because of his membership in a FRAT! |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:08:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Big +1 |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:10:16 PM EDT
[#25]
I do believe that you have a "duty to retreat" according to NY law...
Meaning that if he did not attempt to escape the violence; he is the bad guy. Yes, it's a f'ed up law. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:16:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Yeah, but if the DA is introducing evidence on his behalf, it's unlikely that they'll press it. And if they do hold a hearing, and don't press charges, that's bound to help... discourage... lawsuits against him by the family. He's free on $10k bond... That's not very much for Manslaughter. All looks like he's just going to have to go through the motions of getting this dismissed. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:19:05 PM EDT
[#27]
So what's the deal in NY? In Florida, the fratGottis would have been perpetrating a Burglary to a Dwelling, with an Assault, a crime punishable by life imprisonment without parole (the porch is the house here); any occupant of the premises would be legally privileged to kill them without regard to fear for his own safety, the way our law is written. In point of fact, Florida law probably authorizes passersby to kill people doing what the Guido Zeta Deads were doing. What do you have to do to earn a dirt nap from a homeowner in NY? |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:23:12 PM EDT
[#28]
I wonder what kind of nonsense prompted the frat boys to go out that night.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:36:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Seeing as he managed to cut all three, it appears that the three idiots decided to stick around and mess with the guy after he walked out with an "8 to 9 inch knife." A knife that big is a pretty hard thing to miss. Either they rushed him, or he managed to outrun all 3 kids before they got off of his front porch.
Wise man say "The only thing dumber than messing with someone's shit is messing with the owner when he's got a big freakin' knife." 
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:42:43 PM EDT
[#30]
That would never have happened to me because fraternities dont live in trailers BUT...if it did, there would be three dead students. They were lucky he only had a knife.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:43:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Wrong. Liberals think it is good when an infant is brutally murdered before he has a chance to take his first breath. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 9:05:21 PM EDT
[#32]
+1, the death of the frat guy would have been put on the other two because they were helping with the commision of the crime...that happened a few years ago when a couple of guys tried to rob a blockbuster near me. Two guys go in, a customer carrying goes in while the crime is in progress, customer shoots and kills one...and holds the other til the police arrived. The death of the one guy was placed on his accomplice..charged and convicted. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 9:54:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Got what they had coming.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 10:16:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Charging the remaining frat boys may be possible. When you commit a crime and someone dies, you can be charged with "felony murder" even if you weren't the person who caused the death directly. Perfect example is when two burglars break into a house and the homeowner shoots one to death. Burglar two may be charged with felony murder. In this case, it would depend on whether or not they were committing a felony. Interesting. bd |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 10:21:28 PM EDT
[#35]
What brand knife was he using? I need to buy one, I know it gets the job done!!
I say,"F'em", there should have been 3 dead bodies instead of one! |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 10:33:25 PM EDT
[#36]
I think and I hope that the defendant will be found not guilty on the basis of self-defense. However, I don't think he should have ever gone outside. He didn't break the law and he's not responsible for the deceased's death, but I think he should have just called the cops and taken the blow to the ego and his house on the chin.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 10:47:32 PM EDT
[#37]
What about CA, if they were in his house there he would still be charged 
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:14:40 AM EDT
[#38]
I believe that applies to an actual trial as opposed to a grand jury hearing, which is most likely the type of hearing they are talking about. I don't believe jeapordy is attatched to grand jury hearings. |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:16:43 AM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:18:05 AM EDT
[#40]
Most stabbings and slashings happen with good ol' kitchen knives. I doubt he had anything like my 9 inch Trailmaster II bowie..... |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:32:36 AM EDT
[#41]
but, but, they were good boys!
 Never heard that one before. 
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:43:14 AM EDT
[#42]
You break in you get put down.
Simple. If their son was smart this would of never happened. Dumb ass broke into the wrong house, rushed some random man protecting his family and he gets killed. I should feel sorry for him? Hell no. Max |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:43:23 AM EDT
[#43]
Interesting - so if they are trying to burn your house down, it's ok to use deadly force, but if they're hanging people from the tree outside your window, it's not ok? It looks like if they're hanging people in the tree outside your window, you're supposed to retreat. If they're throwing fire bombs in your house, it's ok to use deadly force, but if they're throwing nail bombs in your house, it's not... How do you determine if they are burglarizing or breaking the glass for criminal mischief? I'm not trying to be an ass here - that's just what I would consider a confusing law... I do really like the part where the parent or guardian can use physical force, but not deadly force, for discipline. "Son, you haven't completed your homework. It's time for your hanging."  Cheers, kk7sm |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:50:17 AM EDT
[#44]
The justification statute in NY is posted on the first or second page, however a burglarly here generally requires an enclosed porch (or at least it did last time I had the issue come up) |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:53:19 AM EDT
[#45]
Actually about 20 years ago (that's depressing) I gave a guy from one of the frats (actually it might have been that same frat) a ride to work (we worked at the same place that summer). I picked him up at a trailer on the edge of town. He told me the frat paid for it and showed me the hydroponic pot farm he had set up in the spare bedroom, he supplied the frat with weed and they paid his rent. |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 4:52:37 AM EDT
[#46]
That is exactly correct. They always think they would have found a better way, and that guns are never necessary. They think they can talk their way out of anything, and that criminals are just misunderstood people who don't really want to hurt anybody. Or they rely too heavily on martial arts, thinking that they can win a gunfight with their fists. I know a guy in the latter category. |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 4:55:03 AM EDT
[#47]
BAN Fraternaties!
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Posted: 2/23/2006 5:21:17 AM EDT
[#48]
He was using a 9" knife.  One that will reach vital organs. That is the reason for a "combat" knife having a blade 6" or better. I am sorry for the death and the legal hassle the attacked man will face,but 3 young  Youth,anger and pressumably alcohol,is a combination to avoid.................if you want to keep your genes from reaching the "bleach pool"! |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 5:25:36 AM EDT
[#49]
Not exactly. Only if you can retreat with "complete safety as to himself and others" and the other exceptions listed below. 2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless: (a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may not use deadly physical force if he knows that he can with complete safety as to himself and others avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating; except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is: (i) in his dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or (ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to section 35.30; or (b) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or robbery; or (c) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of section 35.20. |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 5:54:40 AM EDT
[#50]
He just needs to lawyer up and articulate that he reasonably believed the frat boys were breaking in to the residence.
<snip> 3. A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other person when he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such burglary. <snip> If he says he was pissed because they broke his window and went outside to carve one of them up then he has problems. |
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