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Posted: 1/6/2006 7:53:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 8:35:57 AM EDT by chrism101]
A friend of my brother (Bart) was awakened through the night and heard some noise out at his shop building, he ignored it thinking it was the wind. A short time later, his little girl came running into his room and woke him and his wife saying she heard something outside her window.(they live in a trailer house so she was at the other end of the house.) So he got up and went to put some pants on and his wife went into the girls room and turned off the lights she had left on. at that time he heard someone at his back door. He grabbed the only gun he had. a .22 rifle and ran out the front and around the side with it and a flashlight.

He yelled for the guy to hit the ground or Ill shoot. The bastard chose to run, so he yelled again as he followed around to front of the house. Then at the same time the window was broken on the little girls room. So now he takes a shot at the one he is chasing. Aiming at the head Bart shoots and hits him some where high in the body but not knowing where because he hits the ground. At this point the wife had called 911. The one breaking in the window was alarmed at the shot and his buddy yelling so he ran toward the shop building. Running with his flashlight and .22 he takes a shot a this 2nd thug. and notices a 3rd slam the door on the shop building . The 2nd cant get in and runs into the woods.

So Bart heads to the shop to deal with the 3rd. Just as he gets about 5 yds from the door the guy opens the door and then sees him coming and slams it and locks it. So he takes a few random shots into the building, but with a .22 they probably arent penetrating but making enough noise to scare the shit out of the guy inside. So the guy inside apparently hits the garage door opener to try and escape. But decides to close the door back to try and draw Bart back to the other door but the idiot trips the sensor line so the door is only about 3/4 closed . So Bart takes a few shots under the door, but his flashlight is going dead and he is running low on ammo. Hearing a car car coming and in hopes that it is the Police he backs up towards his house. But its not its the another thug who comes flying in to the driveway in a beater car.

With no light and not enough bullets Bart heads back into the house the Wife is still on with 911 and he is reloading but cant find but a few bullets. So the guy in the car rams it through the shop door and gets the 3rd guy out. So as they drive out and under the street light he sees only 2 people in the car so he knows atleast one is still around. He yells out into the woods where he can hear some movement. He told them to "come on out or your risking getting shot". The response comes from two people. "No, You shot my Buddy He's Bleeding man, hes Bleeding" So he knows he has two out there. Bart fires 2 more shots in the direction of movement in the briars and crap they were hiding in. They yell back " stop man im bleeding, yeah we were just trying to steal gas." Bart told them they were lying "Son of a Bitches" and that they "were trying to get into my house." So everytime there is movement he fires to keep em pinned, with similar discussion the whole time. He knows the general area where they are a less than 100yds behind his home.

The nearest deputy lives less than 1.5 miles away and though off duty arrives 35 minutes later in full uniform. Guess who becomes the first criminal, well of course its the man holding a .22 rifle, even though they are neighbors and have worked together for the county for years. So after he is properly disarmed he begins explaining as the people in the woods continue to make their way through the brush and thick woods. He tells the deputy to walk out there and get them. The deputy says he cant without backup cause its dark. Calls for back up and the Contacts the Sheriff himself telling him they have a shooting and multiple suspects.

As the second deputy arrives and the first briefs him of course the first concern begins in the direction of bart being a criminal by shooting at these people. Bart told them that he had hit one and that they were unarmed. So instead of the two deputies going out and locating the suspects that are still heard crawling about 150yds out and are even still talking to each other, they start looking for blood, and find it. So guess who goes into cuffs. The two deputies beging marking shell casings and bullet holes and blood.

Finally he is uncuffed as the sheriff arrives and 3 more deputies shortly there after . The other 3 are sent to check the roadways nearby and only patrol in their cars. Bart describes the car as a yellow older ford car. And the sheriff gives him a book of paint colors to try and match it. the closest color he can match is a dirty yellow from Nissan in the 80's. So the sheriff issues a BOLO for an 80's Nissan Car even as he continues to interject that he is 90% certain it was an older Ford.

No deputies would enter the woods until a dog was brought in, the county no longer has a dog and the game and fish was contacted. 3 AGFC officers respond and arrive at nearly 9 AM. They hit the ground running with the dog, weapons drawn. They track over 2 miles before the trail ends at a road, where they where apparenly picked up. Nearest person reports a strange yellow ford having been along the road all morning driving slow with damaged front end. As the game and fish officers came in one of them had a digital camera and took pictures of each car they had met since they were unsure of the description whether it was Ford or Nissan or ?

Bart was showed the first car photographed, it was a yellow ford. Positive ID. But all 4 unarmed suspects all got away thanks to the quick work of the county and deputies.

All they came away with is that one had been shot, So they called the hospitals to notify them of reporting any gunshot wounds or suspsicious wounds. Finally i was working when 48 hours later someone 22 y/o white male (crankhead looking) came in the ER with a hole in his neck red and irritated. Straight through. I told the nurse to keep him busy and called the Sherriffs office. They showed up 15 minutes later, after the patient was treated by the doctor for the wound and multiple scratches and abrasions he was taken into custody. He lived here in town.

But the word is he wouldnt give up his buddies. Car hasnt been located. They are still debating charging bart because the one he shot was not in his home. WTF the other one was breaking in?

Pisses me off bad. Too Bad Bart didnt have Buckshot. Or a real rifle. even with the .22 it was just luck that the guy didnt get hit in an artery or vein. a Centimeter either way would have been deadly. He went yesterday with my brother and got a Glock 40 and a semi auto 12 guage.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:14:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:20:58 AM EDT
This will get interesting.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:28:17 AM EDT
In Texas, that would have been a good shoot.

The Sheriff and deputies would probably have been asking why he didn't have/use a bigger gun!
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:29:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:32:44 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:33:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
In Texas, that would have been a good shoot.

The Sheriff and deputies would probably have been asking why he didn't have/use a bigger gun!



True....Only in Texas!
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:34:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 8:37:19 AM EDT by Johninaustin]
I had to read thru that three times to get the story straight.

Let me summarize:

Arkansas

Trailer

Some buy named "Bart"

'Dukes of Hazzard" script.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:34:32 AM EDT
Wow....your brothers friend is nuts.
I'll be curious to know how the civil suit pans out...
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:36:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc6969:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
This will get interesting.



+1

$10.00 says the BS flag flys before end of first page!

As a fellow Arkie, I can easily believe this story. I'm curious as to what county it happened in. If it was say Craighead, I'd call B.S. Perry, saline, faulkner etc, It's true.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:36:29 AM EDT
Sounds like the deputies and sherrif are nothing but cowards and were irritated at having to leave the safety of the donut shop in the dark of night.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:37:48 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:39:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 8:44:10 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
#1 - your brother's friend should have had a real gun.


#2 - running around shooting at noises is pretty stoopid


#3 - if they are trying to flee, LET THEM


#4 - don't tell the cops you shot at unarmed people. "Are they armed?" "I think so, officer", or "Yes". "they tried to break into my daughter's room"


#5 - the friend is going to get bent over and rode hard.


#6 - if I were the deputy, I wouldn't head into the woods alone either.


#7 - I wonder how many shots he fired. Certainly could have used a "high capacity" mag.


#8 - most fights occur at night - hence the need for a LIGHT


#9 - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY SINGLE SHOT YOU FIRE. Fracking rednecks shooting at every sound their hear


#10 - get some training. buy good equipment. know how to use it. know when to use it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:41:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 8:42:32 AM EDT by Cavu]
I am not saying I wouldn't have done the same thing or that the punk didn't deserve to get shot, but shooting someone in the back(neck) as they are running away doesn't put you in a good legal position. Especially if your brothers friend acknowledged that the punk was unarmed and fleeing.


ETA: Geez, I type slow.


Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:42:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
I had to read thru that three times to get the story straight.

Let me summarize:

Arkansas

Trailer

Some buy named "Bart"

'Dukes of Hazzard" script.






tc6969


That was an easy ten bucks, eh?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:43:58 AM EDT
Hmmm. Based on this thread perhaps I need more than a .22 and a .38?

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:44:00 AM EDT
He's not listed in out HTF locator thread, so we'll have to wait till he revisits here to find out where it was at. But again, knowing AR as I do, I don't have any trouble believing it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:44:27 AM EDT
Ok, I'll get it started.

While I applaud the effort of Bart, he screwed up. Once he made badguy contact he should have got back in the house with his family. Protect them first. If the badguys had been armed they could have killed/wounded Bart and then have their way with his family. Protect family first, property second. He has opened himself to criminal and civil charges.

As to the cops. Running around in the woods with an unknown number of assailants, possibly armed, not good. Wait for the dogs.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:46:30 AM EDT
You know, this is bullshit when a man defending his home and property is the one in trouble. Granted this assumes the story is true, and granted, he did go about it kinda cooky like (shooting random shots under the garage door?).

But still, it would have been nice if he had been able to cap all of them, and cap 'em dead, and been recognized as a good citizen for ridding the world of 4 scumbags, instead of being treated like a criminal....
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:52:03 AM EDT
If this story is true, Bart is going to be raped over a legal battle due to his actions. Hope Bart has a ton of money lying around.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:52:36 AM EDT
3rd hand story. Author has numerous intricate details. Text moves from past tense to present tense. Yeah, it's made up. Nice try though.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:59:01 AM EDT
I guess it depends on Arkansas laws.

Do they have a "make my day law" or a "Castle Doctrine".

Since he lives there it is an occupied dwelling. Some places it would be a good shoot, although maybe not the best option. Some places not such a good shoot. Especially after admitting they were unarmed and running away
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:14:51 AM EDT
A. He was not in danger once they were on the run. (150 yards away)
B. He didnt know that they had actually stolen anything. At least you didnt mention.

In Texas it is lawful to shoot to protect or retrieve private property. If some one is in the act of breaking my car window I can shoot him. If I scare him and he runs from me and all he did was break my window I cant shoot him. If he has my stereo after breaking my window and he is running down the street with MY steroe I can shoot him in the back and kill the little shit.

Your buddy did not not use good judgement IMHO. He may get away with it legally. (maybe) But he sure opened himself up for a civil suit.

Hope all goes well for him. Too bad he could not have made well placed shots and terminated the lifeforce from the 4 guys. Sure would have made things easier to explain to the LEO once they showed up.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:15:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By justice23:
I guess it depends on Arkansas laws.

Do they have a "make my day law" or a "Castle Doctrine".

Since he lives there it is an occupied dwelling. Some places it would be a good shoot, although maybe not the best option. Some places not such a good shoot. Especially after admitting they were unarmed and running away




They were outdoors, the Castle Doctrine does not pertain. Bart did the wrong thing.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:23:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Symtex:
A. He was not in danger once they were on the run. (150 yards away)
B. He didnt know that they had actually stolen anything. At least you didnt mention.

In Texas it is lawful to shoot to protect or retrieve private property. This is good!If some one is in the act of breaking my car window I can shoot him. Right on!If I scare him and he runs from me and all he did was break my window I cant shoot him. That sucks, you should be able to kill him deadIf he has my stereo after breaking my window and he is running down the street with MY steroe I can shoot him in the back and kill the little shit. This is good

Your buddy did not not use good judgement IMHO. He may get away with it legally. (maybe) But he sure opened himself up for a civil suit.

Hope all goes well for him. Too bad he could not have made well placed shots and terminated the lifeforce from the 4 guys.Absolutely Sure would have made things easier to explain to the LEO once they showed up.



I don't agree with the whole running away, can't shoot thing. I'm sorry, how is the scumbag any less of a scumbag just because after he broke into my car, house, ect, he didn't have time to grab anything before he ran. I say soemone violates your property, you should be able to kill them....
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:31:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:33:32 AM EDT


This was a pretty funny read. Thanks. It's probably a good thing that he only had a .22.

I don't think that you are doing this guy a favor by making him better armed.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:38:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AWACER:

Originally Posted By justice23:
I guess it depends on Arkansas laws.

Do they have a "make my day law" or a "Castle Doctrine".

Since he lives there it is an occupied dwelling. Some places it would be a good shoot, although maybe not the best option. Some places not such a good shoot. Especially after admitting they were unarmed and running away




They were outdoors, the Castle Doctrine does not pertain. Bart did the wrong thing.

Castle Doctrine is pretty much how we go here. BUT in your yard is as good as your house in most cases. However shooting a fleeing suspect in your yard IS bad. Ar has some pretty decent laws and for the most part prosecuters. If it's true, he may very well walk.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:49:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
I say soemone violates your property, you should be able to kill them....



So if your neighbor backs over your mailbox you are going to blow his head off?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:51:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
I say soemone violates your property, you should be able to kill them....



So if your neighbor backs over your mailbox you are going to blow his head off?

Depends on if I'd already gotten the latest issue of SWAT out of it!
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:54:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
I say soemone violates your property, you should be able to kill them....



So if your neighbor backs over your mailbox you are going to blow his head off?



No, thats an accident. If in understand what is being said about Texas law....someone is trying to break into your property and flees...can't shoot. Someone is breaking into your property and flees with property...can shoot. I say whats the difference?

I say people want to mess with other peoples property...you should take your chances.

Neighbor backs over mailbox accidently....its an accident, deal with it. Neighbor smashes the shit out of your mailbox with a baseball bat...shooting candidate. But thats just me....
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:54:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 10:06:36 AM EDT by LANCEMAN]

Originally Posted By trippletap:
Wow....your brothers friend is nuts.
I'll be curious to know how the civil suit pans out...



What exactly is a crankhead burglar going to get awarded when sueing suing a redneck living in a singlewide trailer. Surely there will be a few people on a jury in Arkansas that would see that the right way.

As far as Bart being in trouble with the law, just depends on the DA I guess. We had a guy around here shoot a thief in the back with #6 birdshot while he was trying to push the guys four wheeler out of the yard. The locally owned newspaper reported the homeowner's courageous defense of his property and the Sheriff's department never gave him any grief about it.

Of course there are only about 19,000 people in this county here, most live out in the sticks and the Sheriff is pretty cool so a story like this would be very possible in my location anyway. Except the part about the deputies not chasing down the suspects, the ones around here love shit like that and are pretty good at it (we have our own little meth problem around here that keeps them busy).
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:55:06 AM EDT
Whoa, he went out and bought a Glock 40? I don't think he's professional enough.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:59:12 AM EDT
it's hard to claim shooting people running away from you or hiding 100 yards away is in self defense. It'll be a good lesson for friend of your brother to learn about firearm laws.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:05:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 10:13:51 AM EDT by chrism101]
Yeah I had nothing better to do than make that up. You know what... Go f yourself if you dont believe it.

If you want you can Check, Its Logan county. Yeah Im telling the story as I know. Part of it is from by brother and this is one of his close friends whom i also know. They freaking vacation together. And yes part of the story is mine, I work in the hospital.

Run up the BS flag,
yeah you can hear someone in the woods 100yds plus if they have no light and are wandering through thick briars and other brush. they fall down cuss and break limbs.

I shouldnt name names, but if you want you could call and check and im sure it'll be in the paper next week. So go check yourself. Paris Express it wont be there until next tuesday since it is a weekly paper.

Shooter/Victim- Bart Bates who ran for county judge and lost last time,
Sheriff Mark Limbird, deputies Fairbanks and Hice, and AGFC officer Boyd Hicks among the ones there. HIPPA prevents me from giving the suspects name that was in the hospitals that day. But i will say his last name is not COCKS, PRICKS, PECKERS, But D!(K$

As far as the location its about 8 miles out from town, his nearest neighbor is 1/4 miles he has several acres and borders the US forest service land. Yeah he lives in a trailer... Big deal not everyone is rich here hes saving to build his house out past his shop building. And in typical rural arkansas fashion we have a big problem with Meth. This county had the mosts busts 4 years ago, and its still a big problem.

I forgot to add that they had also tried to steal his truck out of the shop building, they busted the column and tried to wire it unsuccessfully.

As far as legality issues I dont think the sheriff will pursue it unless he wants to answer response or lack of. Hes already having problems with response and also escapees from the jail as well as some of his other policies.

The thug who was shot could seek legal assistance but its pretty doubtful, unless one of you ARFCom lawyers just want to represent him.

In my opinion he did exactly what i would have in that situation, you cant fault him for that, and yes hid did get back to his family fairly quick. You never know how you would react in that sitution so dont go judge anything he did.
I second the opinion that had he had a 12 with buckshot or a AR, or any other rifle he could have laid to rest atleast a few of them.

The only lesson i take from this is, make sure the light is fully charged and take the spare mag with you.

As far as your "redneck" Claims and gunowner lawyer abilities, hes not some good old boy and not your typical gunowner. All he had was the .22 and if you want to go the route of calling someone a redneck just because he lives in Arkansas, fine, but you need to get over your own Ignorance.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:12:09 AM EDT
Well then I apologize. It's quite a sensational story.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:17:23 AM EDT
This story is so full of wrong-headed thinking and actions that it is almost a parody of what should be done.

Let's look at just one sentence:


So Bart takes a few shots under the door, but his flashlight is going dead and he is running low on ammo.


"Takes a few shots under the door"? For what? He can't even see the bad guy.

Rule 4: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT.

How could he be sure of his target when he can't even see it. How does he know where those bullets are going? Why is he even shooting?

It boggles the mind.

Old Bart is lucky he didn't kill someone by mistake.

He needs to get some training.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:18:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 10:19:10 AM EDT by LANCEMAN]

Originally Posted By chrism101:

As far as legality issues I dont think the sheriff will pursue it unless he wants to answer response or lack of. Hes already having problems with response and also escapees from the jail as well as some of his other policies.




Politics come into play in counties with low populations. We usually only have 1000-2000 people vote in elections for our entire county. The sheriff wouldn't be making many friends around here by busting someone who shot a thief regardless of if it was self defense or not. Like anything else, the results from the actions described here are dependent on geographical and cultural factors of the location it happens in.



Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:28:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 10:30:24 AM EDT by chrism101]

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
This story is so full of wrong-headed thinking and actions that it is almost a parody of what should be done.

Let's look at just one sentence:


So Bart takes a few shots under the door, but his flashlight is going dead and he is running low on ammo.


"Takes a few shots under the door"? For what? He can't even see the bad guy.

Rule 4: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT.

How could he be sure of his target when he can't even see it. How does he know where those bullets are going? Why is he even shooting?

It boggles the mind.

Old Bart is lucky he didn't kill someone by mistake.

He needs to get some training.




Whatever, the only mistake would be that they were in his shop and breaking into his house. Yeah im sure you have alot of people that stay in your shop building overnight and that you know all of them and wouldnt accidentally want to hit them.

Im sure he knew his target was trapped and that only the woods were beyond his building.

You people amaze me with your rules and shit. realize he only has one gun and im sure he read the little book of rules that are with it. As well as all of the state federal firearms laws as well as self defense laws that you all love quoting. Go ahead and state your opinions, but i wouldnt doubt seeing it in the NRA mag.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:29:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
This story is so full of wrong-headed thinking and actions that it is almost a parody of what should be done.

Let's look at just one sentence:


So Bart takes a few shots under the door, but his flashlight is going dead and he is running low on ammo.


"Takes a few shots under the door"? For what? He can't even see the bad guy.

Rule 4: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT.

How could he be sure of his target when he can't even see it. How does he know where those bullets are going? Why is he even shooting?

It boggles the mind.

Old Bart is lucky he didn't kill someone by mistake.

He needs to get some training.




That type of thinking is probably what you would see from a substantial portion of the gun owning public in rural areas (the type that don't know the law that well and have their .270, .22 and 12 ga leaning in the corner of the closet or bedroom). Most people have no idea what the firearms or self defense laws are in their location anyway. Not the right way to react by any means, Bart got lucky and hopefully things work out well for him in the end.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:29:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
This story is so full of wrong-headed thinking and actions that it is almost a parody of what should be done.

Let's look at just one sentence:


So Bart takes a few shots under the door, but his flashlight is going dead and he is running low on ammo.


"Takes a few shots under the door"? For what? He can't even see the bad guy.

Rule 4: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT.

How could he be sure of his target when he can't even see it. How does he know where those bullets are going? Why is he even shooting?

It boggles the mind.

Old Bart is lucky he didn't kill someone by mistake.

He needs to get some training.




Yep +1
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:34:36 AM EDT
Your brothers friend sound like he could be in a world of shit. If you have to chase them and shoot them in the back they are no longer a threat and the shooting is not justified.

Tag to see how this pans out also.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:37:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chrism101:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
This story is so full of wrong-headed thinking and actions that it is almost a parody of what should be done.

Let's look at just one sentence:


So Bart takes a few shots under the door, but his flashlight is going dead and he is running low on ammo.


"Takes a few shots under the door"? For what? He can't even see the bad guy.

Rule 4: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT.

How could he be sure of his target when he can't even see it. How does he know where those bullets are going? Why is he even shooting?

It boggles the mind.

Old Bart is lucky he didn't kill someone by mistake.

He needs to get some training.




Whatever, the only mistake would be that they were in his shop and breaking into his house. Yeah im sure you have alot of people that stay in your shop building overnight and that you know all of them and wouldnt accidentally want to hit them.

Im sure he knew his target was trapped and that only the woods were beyond his building.

You people amaze me with your rules and shit. realize he only has one gun and im sure he read the little book of rules that are with it. As well as all of the state federal firearms laws as well as self defense laws that you all love quoting. Go ahead and state your opinions, but i wouldnt doubt seeing it in the NRA mag.



Our "rules and shit" are opinions shared by those who can put us in jail. Dude, if somebody is in your shop and not posing an immediate thread to your life, you can't just put a rifle under the God damn door and start shooting at something you can't see.

Knowing the 4 rules of firearm safety, as well as state and federal laws is what keeps us out of jail. I applaud your friend's bravery and willingness to handle his own affairs the best he can, but what he did could easily land him in prison. I hope it doesn't happen - and it probably won't - but for the benefit of all who read this, we need to point out that this is NOT the proper way to handle situations like this.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:44:24 AM EDT
The story went to hell as soon as Bart went outside. Bart kept raising the crazy bar from there.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:44:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chrism101:
You people amaze me with your rules and shit. realize he only has one gun and im sure he read the little book of rules that are with it. As well as all of the state federal firearms laws as well as self defense laws that you all love quoting. Go ahead and state your opinions, but i wouldnt doubt seeing it in the NRA mag.




Im sure they would not write a story the way you told it.
NRA..

Some guy who lacks common sense shoots at guy he cant see 150 yards away blindly in the dark.... He was lucky enough that 1 of 50 rounds struck the perp in the neck...
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:56:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 11:09:39 AM EDT by chrism101]
First and foremost I would love to know why some of you people even own guns, If you can't defend your home or property from a group of meth heads then u might consider why you would own one, they are designed to kill.

Yeah legally this and that, there are more laws that pertain to guns and there ownership than probably anything else. Literally thousands that are on the books.

But when its 2 to 4 people trying to enter various portions of your home or property versus you ,your wife, and 12 y/o daughter. What happens. Yeah he hit one on the run running from his home into his shop.

Had it happened on a base in Iraq youd be pinning a medal on him and buying him a rifle.

That "good old boy" did good.


Can you People Not READ

No where did i say he was shooting 150 yds. The woods are behind his house. If you include the yard which is probably 50yds wide and then they are 50yds or so inside the woods. He was shooting in their direction, as they continued a heated exchange of words and would not come out beforehand.

This is hardly worth spending my day off defending from those of you who know exactly what should have happened. Hindsight is always 20/20 im sure he realizes a few things he could have done better after the fact also.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:02:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chrism101:
First and foremost I would love to know why some of you people even own guns, If you can't defend your home or property .



Guns have a legitimate role for home defense, it's when they're used for home offense you get into trouble. Unless the perp that was 150 yards away was shooting back, what mortal danger was the guy that was doing the shooting in?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:03:24 AM EDT
That story sounded like a train wreck as soon as I saw "he grabbed his 22 and ran outside".


And BTW, I dont blame the deupties for not going into the woods after multiple suspects. There were two officers that ran a guy into the woods in Charlotte back in the early 90s. During the struggle the suspect shot and killed both officers. Now I'll run a guy into the woods if he is alone and I have eyes on him the entire time. Pulling back, setting up a perimeter (if possible) and getting K9 involved is the safest way to go.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:05:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chrism101:
First and foremost I would love to know why some of you people even own guns, If you can't defend your home or property from a group of meth heads then u might consider why you would own one, they are designed to kill.



How is shooting 150 yards away at night at sounds defending your home?




But when its 2 to 4 people trying to enter various portions of your home or property versus you ,your wife, and 12 y/o daughter. What happens. Yeah he hit one on the run running from his home into his shop.



Shooting under a door into a building a BG is trapped in is not defense either. He was not in danger at that time. However his wife and 12 y/o daughter you talked baout were alone with 3 other BGs running around. Common sense says stay with family and protect. You cannot defend such blatant disregard for safety of others. And im not refering to the safety of the BG. Shit if I had acres of land and lived alone I may have tracked the sons a bitches down and shot them. However I would not have fire BLINDLY with a .22 150 GOD DAMN YARDS AWAY at SOUNDS I PERCIEVED to be badguys. I would have properly identified my targets and pulled the trigger.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:05:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chrism101:
First and foremost I would love to know why some of you people even own guns, If you can't defend your home or property from a group of meth heads then u might consider why you would own one, they are designed to kill.



I am going to echo a point that has been brought up by some other people in the thread. You can own guns and use them in self defense. However, once the threat to yourself or your family ends, you are no longer entitled to use deadly force. If someone is running away from you unarmed, you have no right to shoot at them. Choosing to shoot at them just opens yourself up to civil and criminal liability.

I have no problem with people using guns to defend themselves when they are faced with a legitimate threat. However, I do think that it is wrong to shoot at an unarmed person who is running away from you.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:06:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By chrism101:
First and foremost I would love to know why some of you people even own guns, If you can't defend your home or property .



Guns have a legitimate role for home defense, it's when they're used for home offense you get into trouble. Unless the perp that was 150 yards away was shooting back, what mortal danger was the guy that was doing the shooting in?



From a legal perspective, yes, it could be seen a s a problem....

But I don't see the problem with it otherwise...said scumbag was trying to break into mans house. Man should be allowed to shoot said scumbag as he runs, 150yds away in back. A scumbag is a scumbag. Killing him now is better than allowing him another chance to break into someone elses house and possibly do something bad (like rape or kill)....
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