Quoted: First and foremost I would love to know why some of you people even own guns, If you can't defend your home or property from a group of meth heads then u might consider why you would own one, they are designed to kill. Yeah legally this and that, there are more laws that pertain to guns and there ownership than probably anything else. Literally thousands that are on the books. But when its 2 to 4 people trying to enter various portions of your home or property versus you ,your wife, and 12 y/o daughter. What happens. Yeah he hit one on the run running from his home into his shop. Had it happened on a base in Iraq youd be pinning a medal on him and buying him a rifle. That "good old boy" did good.

Lighten up, Francis.

Posting stories like this is a good thing. It's full of what NOT to do.

Quoted: First and foremost I would love to know why some of you people even own guns, If you can't defend your home or property from a group of meth heads then u might consider why you would own one, they are designed to kill. Yeah legally this and that, there are more laws that pertain to guns and there ownership than probably anything else. Literally thousands that are on the books. But when its 2 to 4 people trying to enter various portions of your home or property versus you ,your wife, and 12 y/o daughter. What happens. Yeah he hit one on the run running from his home into his shop. Had it happened on a base in Iraq youd be pinning a medal on him and buying him a rifle. That "good old boy" did good.

He wasn't a war zone and he isn't a solider.  Two key points.  Hell in a lot of places the police can't even shoot a fleeing felon.

An attorney would love this:

Im sure he knew his target was trapped and that only the woods were beyond his building

And would probably ask why you would shot at a man "trapped" in a buildig.

Quoted: Neighbor smashes the shit out of your mailbox with a baseball bat...shooting candidate. But thats just me....

You are going to shoot someone over a $20 mailbox? Wow.

Quoted: Quoted: Neighbor smashes the shit out of your mailbox with a baseball bat...shooting candidate. But thats just me.... You are going to shoot someone over a $20 mailbox? Wow.

No, actually I wouldn't, since the law precludes one from doing that. But I think you should have the right to.

In my book my property is worth defending. In a perfect world, don't fuck with my property if you don't want to take your chances. I think that if someone breaks into your house and steals a pen, it should be open season.

One of the reasons crime is so rampant nowadays, we have public officials, LEO's and libs squawking how property is not worth someones life. Sorry, but if scumbags had to worry about getting blown away for maliciously damaging or stealing someone elses property, I think there would be a lot less crime. Shit, it pays to rob and steal, since all they get is a slap on the wrist, and booted out the door to do it some more...

Anyone who strays off the sidewalk on your property (or is not between the street/their car and your front door ( with the intention of knocking) should be absolute fair game.  No one, criminal or otherwise, has any business elsewhere on your property without your permission, especially in the dead of night.  Shot fleeing?  Tough shit.  If you weren't where you didn't belong to begin with then there'd be no reason to flee.

Go read the whole thing, No one got shot at 150yds. Crap its more like 25 from his house to his shop.

You know what? I hope all of you Lawyer types have the same Fucking thing happen to you and your family.
You go out the front to catch some one trying to break in the back and wouldnt pull the trigger while simultaneously you hear glass breaking in your 12 y/o daughters room. Yeah dont shoot after you say stop or ill shoot and you are unsure that they are armed or not and its dark. Legal or not are you going back in and hoping the 30 minute response time is adequate.

This story might have been very tragic had he not had a .22 since you still dont know whether all or none of them were armed.

Chalk me up as one of the people that think that simple property theft shouldnt b met with deadly force.

"He was actually running TOWARDS me.  I never intended to hit him in the back but the gun I used is the same model Oswald used on Kennedy.  You know how crazy those rounds act..."

Quoted: I don't agree with the whole running away, can't shoot thing. I'm sorry, how is the scumbag any less of a scumbag just because after he broke into my car, house, ect, he didn't have time to grab anything before he ran. I say soemone violates your property, you should be able to kill them....

tag for later

Quoted: No, actually I wouldn't, since the law precludes one from doing that. But I think you should have the right to. In my book my property is worth defending. In a perfect world, don't fuck with my property if you don't want to take your chances. I think that if someone breaks into your house and steals a pen, it should be open season. One of the reasons crime is so rampant nowadays, we have public officials, LEO's and libs squawking how property is not worth someones life. Sorry, but if scumbags had to worry about getting blown away for maliciously damaging or stealing someone elses property, I think there would be a lot less crime. Shit, it pays to rob and steal, since all they get is a slap on the wrist, and booted out the door to do it some more...

Well, I disagree with you. You should not be able to shoot someone dead because they are going down the road playing roadball with your mailbox. Is it criminal behavior? Yes. Should you be able to shoot them for it? I say no.

In my book my property is worth defending. In a perfect world, don't fuck with my property if you don't want to take your chances. I think that if someone breaks into your house and steals a pen, it should be open season.

In Texas you can protect your property with deadly force at night. There are no stipulations on the value of the property... But if you dont shoot him in the act then you go to jail.

I would not however take a life over my mailbox.

im glad i live in texas, you can shoot someone violating your property at nighttime, no questions asked.

no having to stop and determine if said criminal is armed in the pitch black night, and no having to stop and discuss their true intentions with them, or if they are really just misunderstood victims crying out for help.

Quoted: Go read the whole thing, No one got shot at 150yds. Crap its more like 25 from his house to his shop. You know what? I hope all of you Lawyer types have the same Fucking thing happen to you and your family. You go out the front to catch some one trying to break in the back and wouldnt pull the trigger while simultaneously you hear glass breaking in your 12 y/o daughters room. Yeah dont shoot after you say stop or ill shoot and you are unsure that they are armed or not and its dark. Legal or not are you going back in and hoping the 30 minute response time is adequate. This story might have been very tragic had he not had a .22 since you still dont know whether all or none of them were armed.

- Hey, dont post something if you cant take the critique/criticism that comes with it. Your friend should be lucky that with all the mistakes he made; he nor his family members were injured or killed.  

Quoted: No, thats an accident. If in understand what is being said about Texas law....someone is trying to break into your property and flees...can't shoot. Someone is breaking into your property and flees with property...can shoot. I say whats the difference?

Uhh... there is a HUGE difference.  One is to stop the commision of a crime.  The other is murder, in lieu of apprehension of a *suspect*.

I say people want to mess with other peoples property...you should take your chances. Neighbor backs over mailbox accidently....its an accident, deal with it. Neighbor smashes the shit out of your mailbox with a baseball bat...shooting candidate. But thats just me....

I will pray for your children.

Quoted: Chalk me up as one of the people that think that simple property theft shouldnt b met with deadly force.

When your child's window is broken the rules change.  At that point you are a threat to the child and you and your partners must be dealt with decisively.  Even if the others are outside in the shed, who knows when they'll decide they may have better luck in the house.  

Sorry, again, not where you belong, dead of night, in a group, breaking and entering, you're fucking swiss  cheese.

Quoted: Go read the whole thing, No one got shot at 150yds. Crap its more like 25 from his house to his shop. You know what? I hope all of you Lawyer types have the same Fucking thing happen to you and your family. You go out the front to catch some one trying to break in the back and wouldnt pull the trigger while simultaneously you hear glass breaking in your 12 y/o daughters room. Yeah dont shoot after you say stop or ill shoot and you are unsure that they are armed or not and its dark. Legal or not are you going back in and hoping the 30 minute response time is adequate. This story might have been very tragic had he not had a .22 since you still dont know whether all or none of them were armed.

Yep, it could have been VERY tragic.  His wife and daughter might be attending his trial for a triple murder.

Ol' Bart was firing on subjects that were FLEEING and that he KNEW to be unarmed. How old are you?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Neighbor smashes the shit out of your mailbox with a baseball bat...shooting candidate. But thats just me.... You are going to shoot someone over a $20 mailbox? Wow. No, actually I wouldn't, since the law precludes one from doing that. But I think you should have the right to.

Hell, I would!    (if it were legal in Iowa)

Destruction of a mailbox is a felony.
And the mailbox is my property, and my responsibility.
In Texas, you can use lethal force to prevent a felony, and to protect personal property.

(unless Texan laws have changed)

If someone is bad-ass enough to destroy a mailbox, he better hope he is bulletproof.

Gotta admit, if the penalty for mailbox destruction was instant death by owner,
there probably wouldn't be any mailbox destructions.

Damn, I wished I lived in Texas.

As far as numnuts Bart,
what if one of the "bad guys" had his 3-year old daughter with him.
(it has been known to happen, that a "bad guy" is babysitting while committing crimes)
What if one of the pot-shots had killed an innocent kid?

He violated Rule #4, as already stated.  

Quoted: When your child's window is broken the rules change.  At that point you are a threat to the child and you and your partners must be dealt with decisively.  Even if the others are outside in the shed, who knows when they'll decide they may have better luck in the house.   Sorry, again, not where you belong, dead of night, in a group, breaking and entering, you're fucking swiss  cheese.

What this thread highlights is the need to know your states laws on the legal use of deadly physical force BEFORE you get yourself into the middle of an incident that will take a lot of money to a lawyer to get yourself out of.

What you describe is an attempted burglary.

Quoted: Quoted: No, actually I wouldn't, since the law precludes one from doing that. But I think you should have the right to. In my book my property is worth defending. In a perfect world, don't fuck with my property if you don't want to take your chances. I think that if someone breaks into your house and steals a pen, it should be open season. One of the reasons crime is so rampant nowadays, we have public officials, LEO's and libs squawking how property is not worth someones life. Sorry, but if scumbags had to worry about getting blown away for maliciously damaging or stealing someone elses property, I think there would be a lot less crime. Shit, it pays to rob and steal, since all they get is a slap on the wrist, and booted out the door to do it some more... Well, I disagree with you. You should not be able to shoot someone dead because they are going down the road playing roadball with your mailbox. Is it criminal behavior? Yes. Should you be able to shoot them for it? I say no.

Well, thats the great thing about this country, you're entitled to think what you want, and I am to think what I want.

Considering your responses to other things, I would entirely believe that is what you think....

Quoted: Quoted: Chalk me up as one of the people that think that simple property theft shouldnt b met with deadly force.

When your child's window is broken the rules change.  At that point you are a threat to the child and you and your partners must be dealt with decisively.  Even if the others are outside in the shed, who knows when they'll decide they may have better luck in the house.  .

- This actually directed at me?  There is a difference between simple property theft and the act of breaking into an occupied dwelling. I'm speaking of the former.

Quoted: Go read the whole thing, No one got shot at 150yds. Crap its more like 25 from his house to his shop. You know what? I hope all of you Lawyer types have the same Fucking thing happen to you and your family. You go out the front to catch some one trying to break in the back and wouldnt pull the trigger while simultaneously you hear glass breaking in your 12 y/o daughters room. Yeah dont shoot after you say stop or ill shoot and you are unsure that they are armed or not and its dark. Legal or not are you going back in and hoping the 30 minute response time is adequate. This story might have been very tragic had he not had a .22 since you still dont know whether all or none of them were armed.

At the point someone is coming through the window, the daughter is secured, and as soon as the bad guy comes part way through the window, he catches a round in the head. No "stop or I'll shoot", nothing. Bad guy is in the house, it's a clean shoot. The rest either scatter after hearing the shot, or come to retrieve buddy. Retrieval would be the wrong option. You know, tactics aren't just for the military or police.

While most likely illegal as hell, I think he did good except for the fact that he needed better equipment (serious long gun/light/NV).  If they run and he shoots them in the back, they should have run faster.  Or stayed home.

This is one case where Texas has it right.  Thieves need to know that they are putting their lives at risk.

Better equipment is one of the less important things that guy needs.

Quoted: Quoted: Chalk me up as one of the people that think that simple property theft shouldnt b met with deadly force. When your child's window is broken the rules change.  At that point you are a threat to the child and you and your partners must be dealt with decisively.  Even if the others are outside in the shed, who knows when they'll decide they may have better luck in the house.   Sorry, again, not where you belong, dead of night, in a group, breaking and entering, you're fucking swiss  cheese.

Some people work for what they have.  Other people prey on those people.
I shoot raccoons that tear into my garbage.  Why should a thief trying to steal
from me be treated any better?  

Frightened daughter wakes you up at 3am, "Daddy, there's someone outside."

"Okay, honey.  SIt down and let's think about this.  I COULD go see what's up and stop them if they're up to no good.  But I might get in trouble.  Daddy doesn't like to be in trouble.  You don't like being in trouble do you?  Well, you don't want daddy in timeout do you?  So here's what we'll do, we'll just see what they want to do next.  Maybe we can ask if they are nice men.  Maybe we can just give them the keys to the car and all or stuff and we'll all be happy in the morning.  And get your shoes on, too, cuz we're gonna have to go for a walk after we give them the house.  If we don't there may be a fracas.  Can you say fracas, sweetheart?"

Quoted: First and foremost I would love to know why some of you people even own guns, If you can't defend your home or property from a group of meth heads then u might consider why you would own one, they are designed to kill. Yeah legally this and that, there are more laws that pertain to guns and there ownership than probably anything else. Literally thousands that are on the books. But when its 2 to 4 people trying to enter various portions of your home or property versus you ,your wife, and 12 y/o daughter. What happens. Yeah he hit one on the run running from his home into his shop. Had it happened on a base in Iraq youd be pinning a medal on him and buying him a rifle. That "good old boy" did good.

OK, lets set laws aside for a moment, then.

If someone is breaking into my house, they are a threat to me and my family. First, I will LOUDLY give them verbal commands to stop. If they beat feet, the story's over. Finished. If they continue breaking in and make it into my house, I can safely assume they mean to harm me or my family. I'll shoot them where they stand. If their buddies hear this and start coming after me, I'll shoot them. If they start heading for the hills, I'll let them. End of story.

Listen, protecting the lives of my family is my first priority. My intent is to stop the threat posed against us. A firearm is but ONE tool I have at my disposal. If my voice ends the conflict, it's over. If a blinding light ends it, it's over. If the mere sight of my firearm ceases the threat, it's over. If I shoot him, I will shoot until the threat stops. If that took one round, great. If it took 30, fine. I really don't care if he's dead or not, so long as he no longer poses a threat.

I'm putting the law aside for a moment. Legal or not, I do not feel justified in killing another man over property. I will kill someone to end a threat to my life, or to end the possibility of serious bodily injury. I really don't care if somebody else sees it differently. Those are my metrics.

Your friend left his home to pursue a man who was not posing a grave threat to himself or his family. Meanwhile, another thug comes flying in the driveway while he's busy shooting under a shop door. His priorities were skewed.

Again, I applaud his bravery and his willingness to do something other than cower in fear. But he really needs to rethink the way he handles these situations. Bringing the law back into it for a moment - like it or not we are subject to it. I'm telling you right now, killing - or attempting to kill - a man who is not posing an immediate threat to you or your family carries with it the very real possibility of a murder conviction. That's a fact. I don't care if you agree with it or not. Everybody reading these stories needs to understand the legal implications of their actions BEFOREHAND, so that they are prepared to make better decisions if and when the time arises. Pondering these things in a prison cell isn't quite as productive.

Quoted: Well, thats the great thing about this country, you're entitled to think what you want, and I am to think what I want. Considering your responses to other things, I would entirely believe that is what you think....

And in this case, the law agrees with me. I would not want to live in aworld where it was perfectly legal for someone to shoot you over the most minor perceived slight commited towards your personal property, I DO support that deadly physical force should be reserved for protecting your own life or the life of an innocent third party. Killing someone is serious business and should be reserved for serious incidents.

Quoted: Quoted: No, thats an accident. If in understand what is being said about Texas law....someone is trying to break into your property and flees...can't shoot. Someone is breaking into your property and flees with property...can shoot. I say whats the difference? Uhh... there is a HUGE difference.  One is to stop the commision of a crime.  The other is murder, in lieu of apprehension of a *suspect*. I say people want to mess with other peoples property...you should take your chances. Neighbor backs over mailbox accidently....its an accident, deal with it. Neighbor smashes the shit out of your mailbox with a baseball bat...shooting candidate. But thats just me.... I will pray for your children.

Hey, what I believe, and what I would currently do or teach my children (when I have some) are two different things. I understand the law, I don't have to like them.

I BELIEVE one should have the right to defend their property, any property, with deadly force. I also believe you must use your brain in such situations, were they permissible.

Quoted: Frightened daughter wakes you up at 3am, "Daddy, there's someone outside." "Okay, honey.  SIt down and let's think about this.  I COULD go see what's up and stop them if they're up to no good.  But I might get in trouble.  Daddy doesn't like to be in trouble.  You don't like being in trouble do you?  Well, you don't want daddy in timeout do you?  So here's what we'll do, we'll just see what they want to do next.  Maybe we can ask if they are nice men.  Maybe we can just give them the keys to the car and all or stuff and we'll all be happy in the morning.  And get your shoes on, too, cuz we're gonna have to go for a walk after we give them the house.  If we don't there may be a fracas.  Can you say fracas, sweetheart?"

ok, to paraphrase...

--man arms himself and investigates noise outside daughter's room.  [good]

--man orders intruder to halt.  when he does not, man opens fire.  [fine]

--man realizes that he is outnumbered, but continues to engage.  [iffy]

--man aggressively engages multiple subjects with a .22.  [stupid]  (here's where it gets really bad)

--man engages a fleeing subject, instead of another who is in the process of breaking into his daughter's room.  [beyond stupid]

--with all 3 subjects running in different directions, man abandons the defense of his wife and daughter and continues pursuit.  [insane]

--random shots under the garage door at an unseen target.  [stupid]

--man continues to fire at noises while low on ammo.  [stupid]

--man attempts to pin down the now-retreating subjects.  [galactically stupid]

it is easy to criticize, and no one knows what he would do if a situation like this happened to him.  but i would like to think that i would be more levelheaded than this.  first and foremost, i would hope that i do not leave my wife and child defenseless while i'm out running around in the dark shooting at noises.

Quoted: im glad i live in texas, you can shoot someone violating your property at nighttime, no questions asked.

You could not be more wrong.  There is a dead guy laying around.  There are going to be a whole truckload of questions.   You'd better have answers.(and deep pockets)

I'm not sure which about Arfcom bothers me more.  People claiming they'll take a life over a mailbox or posters that are completely clueless about use of force law.

Quoted: Quoted: Well, thats the great thing about this country, you're entitled to think what you want, and I am to think what I want. Considering your responses to other things, I would entirely believe that is what you think.... And in this case, the law agrees with me. I would not want to live in aworld where it was perfectly legal for someone to shoot you over the most minor perceived slight commited towards your personal property, I DO support that deadly physical force should be reserved for protecting your own life or the life of an innocent third party. Killing someone is serious business and should be reserved for serious incidents.

Well, as I see it, if you are not the type of person who would stray onto another mans property, and try to destroy or steal something he has worked for, then you should have no problem.

If you are that type of person, you should be aware it might the last time you ever engage in such behavior. I bet we would have much less petty crime.....

But as I said, I know what the law says, and I will follow it. But I don't have to like it or agree with it...

Quoted: Go read the whole thing, No one got shot at 150yds. Crap its more like 25 from his house to his shop. You know what? I hope all of you Lawyer types have the same Fucking thing happen to you and your family. You go out the front to catch some one trying to break in the back and wouldnt pull the trigger while simultaneously you hear glass breaking in your 12 y/o daughters room. Yeah dont shoot after you say stop or ill shoot and you are unsure that they are armed or not and its dark. Legal or not are you going back in and hoping the 30 minute response time is adequate. This story might have been very tragic had he not had a .22 since you still dont know whether all or none of them were armed.

I guess that I am one of the lawyer types that you are referring to, and, as such, I am going to point out some differences.    It is a completely different situation shooting at someone who is actively breaking windows and trying to enter your house.  In that situation, deadly force can be used because there is an imminent threat to life and property.  

However, shooting at someone who is running away from you, unarmed, is a completely different situation.  If they are unarmed and trying to run away, what danger do they pose?  Even if you do not know if they are unarmed, they are no longer a threat when they are running away with their back to you.  If they return or turn around and are armed, then you have every right to use deadly force.  But generally, once their back is facing you, there is no longer a threat (unless they are firing over their shoulder as they run).

There is a big difference legally between the person that is running away and the person that is breaking into his daughter's room.

Also, personally, if I had children (which I do not) and I heard someone breaking into their room while I was chasing someone else, I would just let the person I am chasing go and immediately try to stop the person breaking into the room.  

I also think that there is something wrong with just blindly firing shots into the wood, even if the woods border his property.  You have no way of knowing exactly what is out there.  If you should happen to hit someone who is not involved (or even someone that was involved but cannot be identified as being involved) there would be major civil liability and the possibility of criminal liability.

As I have already said, I have no problems with using firearms in self defense.  However, I do have a problem using a firearm in "self defense" when you or someone else is not in imminent danger.  Shooting a fleeing felon who is unarmed, in my opinion, is just wrong.  Let the police handle it after they run away, even if the police response time is crappy.

I feel I need to address the killing of someone over property. If someone destroys a mailbox or steals a television, should the state apply the death penalty? The answer is absolutely not, and that is EXACLTY what you are handing down if you shoot somebody over it.

If a punk teenager steals the hubcaps from a cuiser, would you support an officer who kills the teen? I would hope not. I am appalled at how cheap life has become. I *HATE* criminals, but damnit, handing down the death penalty over theft is immoral.

When your child's window is broken the rules change. At that point you are a threat to the child and you and your partners must be dealt with decisively. Even if the others are outside in the shed, who knows when they'll decide they may have better luck in the house.

THIS is the smartest reply in this thread yet.

AND there was a great disparity in numbers... MULTIPLE attackers... 4 involved, and for all he knew, maybe more.

With some nearby, others lurking, he had no way to know when some or all would come back.  He was low on ammo, and not in a position to "take prisoners" or control them.

I doubt you could get a jury to convict him.

This ass clowns family is fortunate that they didn't decide to flee the trailor. Not that they were any safer inside it with a lunatic spraying .22 bullets in any & every direction he thinks he hears or sees something.

Rambo and his .22 obviously likes to shoot 1st 2nd and 3rd and then frantically search for another unseen ( but heard   ) target.

The guy needs some firearms training and to learn to keep his cool under pressure.

Quoted: I feel I need to address the killing of someone over property. If someone destroys a mailbox or steals a television, should the state apply the death penalty? The answer is absolutely not, and that is EXACLTY what you are handing down if you shoot somebody over it. If a punk teenager steals the hubcaps from a cuiser, would you support an officer who kills the teen? I would hope not. I am appalled at how cheap life has become. I *HATE* criminals, but damnit, handing down the death penalty over theft is immoral.

It depends on who the arbiter of morals is. What I said I believe is that one should have the right to defend your property, regardless of value. I worked hard to make the money to buy that TV set. Why should I allow some scumbag to go waltzing off with it.

If you want to talk about morals, well lets look at the decline of morals. At one time it was generally believed to be morally wrong to steal. Yet, now its almost no big deal. Those who perpetrate the crime usually receive no more than a slap on the wrist, and the namby pamby liberals excuse it my blaming society, and everything else for forcing poor Johnny to steal.

If Johnny was raised to see that stealing was wrong, he wouldn't be put in the spot of having someone else decide if their personal moral code would allow them to put a .45 slug into Johnny's brainpan while he was making off with the TV so he could score some rock....

Quoted: Frightened daughter wakes you up at 3am, "Daddy, there's someone outside." "Okay, honey.  SIt down and let's think about this.  I COULD go see what's up and stop them if they're up to no good.  But I might get in trouble.  Daddy doesn't like to be in trouble.  You don't like being in trouble do you?  Well, you don't want daddy in timeout do you?  So here's what we'll do, we'll just see what they want to do next.  Maybe we can ask if they are nice men.  Maybe we can just give them the keys to the car and all or stuff and we'll all be happy in the morning.  And get your shoes on, too, cuz we're gonna have to go for a walk after we give them the house.  If we don't there may be a fracas.  Can you say fracas, sweetheart?"

I have not seen one post about how it is wrong to protect your family. Shit a BG comes into my house I shoot. Very simple. I dont chase the BG out of my house and leave my family to be harmed by 3 posible BG still at large.  And I dont put lead downrange at something I cant see.

If you say you would do the SAME thing I call you a DUMBASS. And I would like to see what his free legal representation does to save his ass.

Quoted: im glad i live in texas, you can shoot someone violating your property at nighttime, no questions asked. no having to stop and determine if said criminal is armed in the pitch black night, and no having to stop and discuss their true intentions with them, or if they are really just misunderstood victims crying out for help.

Sorry dude - that is wrong.

I highly recommend you read up on Texas law:  Penal Code Chapter 9 covers this:

§ 9.42.  DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.  A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:  (1)  if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41;  and  (2)  when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:    (A)  to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime;  or    (B)  to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property;  and  (3)  he reasonably believes that:    (A)  the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means;  or    (B)  the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.   Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

You cannot "shoot someone violating your property at nighttime, no questions asked"

Simply not what the law says.

And there is NO SUCH THING as "no questions asked"  Where do these myths begin?

To parapahrase - if you shot someone "violating" your property at night.... if it is not abundantly clear that you meet the above requirements.... you can (and most likely will) be arrested.

It must be at night, and you have to know they are in the act of theft, or criminal mischief during the nighttime, and "the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury."

If they try to flee - you cannot shoot them for criminal mischief or tresspass.  Even at night.  The only way you can shoot someone (using your example of nighttime) fleeing is listed above.... if it was theft of property and they are trying to leave with the property, and "the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means"


So you see.... there will be MANY questions.  Read the law.

Quoted: In Texas, you can use lethal force to prevent a felony, and to protect personal property. (unless Texan laws have changed)

I dont know if they EVER said that, but they DAMN sure dont say that now.    

I don't think anyone here is suggesting someone be shot over trivial things.  I think some extreme examples have been used, as is usually the cause in a two-sided debate, to illustrate points of view.

Some people cannot distinguish that nuance, however, and it makes for a painful decline in comment quality.  The longer this failure continues the more experts show up to TELL you how wrong you are and HOW everything should have been done.  

I don't know how it SHOULD have been done but I know I'd have shot some motherfuckers who were up to no good around my house in the dead of night.  That makes you uncomfortable?  Stay the fuck away from my house at night.  Taco Bell is open at 3am, my house ain't.

Burritoes or buckshot, you decide.

Quoted: I shoot raccoons that tear into my garbage.  Why should a thief trying to steal from me be treated any better?

PEOPLE are NOT raccoons, even when they acts as such.  If you cant see that difference, then I pity you.

Quoted: Quoted: When your child's window is broken the rules change.  At that point you are a threat to the child and you and your partners must be dealt with decisively.  Even if the others are outside in the shed, who knows when they'll decide they may have better luck in the house.   Sorry, again, not where you belong, dead of night, in a group, breaking and entering, you're fucking swiss  cheese. What this thread highlights is the need to know your states laws on the legal use of deadly physical force BEFORE you get yourself into the middle of an incident that will take a lot of money to a lawyer to get yourself out of. What you describe is an attempted burglary.

Amen.  Be smart.

Quoted: im glad i live in texas, you can shoot someone violating your property at nighttime, no questions asked. no having to stop and determine if said criminal is armed in the pitch black night, and no having to stop and discuss their true intentions with them, or if they are really just misunderstood victims crying out for help.

I sincerly hope that nobody who has been in a car wreck comes on your property seeking help. I'd hate to hear that you killed someone for being on your property when all they wanted is for you to call an ambulance. I'd hate to hear it....but it wouldn't suprise me with your 'shoot first and damn the reason' mentality.

If your that goddamn scared.....just get in my pocket.

Shooting at fleeing suspects, firing under the door of the garage, using up all his ammo, leaving his family vulnerable....

Piss poor discipline. Don't shoot unless you have to. Conserve ammo. Don't go chasing after people when your family is back at the house, unguarded.

It would be really tragic if he had been taken to jail while the scumbags were still on the loose.

I know in this state, the police would HAVE to book him.

The idea is to protect your family, not run up a body count.

Quoted: I am appalled at how cheap life has become. I *HATE* criminals, but damnit, handing down the death penalty over theft is immoral.

Actually life has become more expensive if you think about it. They used to hang horse thieves once upon a time. At what point did life become so valuable ?

Quoted: This ass clowns family is fortunate that they didn't decide to flee the trailor. Not that they were any safer inside it with a lunatic spraying .22 bullets in any & every direction he thinks he hears or sees something. Rambo and his .22 obviously likes to shoot 1st 2nd and 3rd and then frantically search for another unseen ( but heard   ) target. The guy needs some firearms training and to learn to keep his cool under pressure.

I don't think anyone agrees that he should have handled it exactly as he did, especially with regard to running around outside chasing these guys.  

That being said, my girlfriend would have dialed 9-1-1 after retrieving her Glock and her 12-gauge.  I would not have left the safety of the house, probably, but I damn well would have loosed some rounds from inside.  I would then act as the girlfriend's reloader and spotter because she tends to go through magazines like shit through a goose.

Quoted: Quoted: im glad i live in texas, you can shoot someone violating your property at nighttime, no questions asked. You could not be more wrong.  There is a dead guy laying around.  There are going to be a whole truckload of questions.   You'd better have answers.(and deep pockets) I'm not sure which about Arfcom bothers me more.  People claiming they'll take a life over a mailbox or posters that are completely clueless about use of force law.

Quoted: Quoted: im glad i live in texas, you can shoot someone violating your property at nighttime, no questions asked. no having to stop and determine if said criminal is armed in the pitch black night, and no having to stop and discuss their true intentions with them, or if they are really just misunderstood victims crying out for help. I sincerly hope that nobody who has been in a car wreck comes on your property seeking help. I'd hate to hear that you killed someone for being on your property when all they wanted is for you to call an ambulance. I'd hate to hear it....but it wouldn't suprise me with your 'shoot first and damn the reason' mentality. If your that goddamn scared.....just get in my pocket.

Well,

A. I believe daemon is just oversimplifying things, I know him from another board and while we have bumped heads over an issue or two, he is very level headed and intelligent. He would use his head in a situation and evaluate it properly I am sure.

B. Having the right to do something like defend your property does not mean its ok to disengage your brain and not try to asses the situation. There is a big difference between going after and shooting someone breaking into your garage or car say, and capping someone ringing your doorbel for assistance. If someone is ringing your doorbell in the middle of the night, by all means be cautious and prepared, but don't be an idiot and shoot through the door....