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Posted: 12/1/2005 6:57:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2005 6:57:49 AM EDT by TimJ]
I'm pretty sick of hearing the old "How can you support the death penalty if don't support a womens right to murder her unborn children?"

My new shareware response is "That's just as stupid as saying how can you not oppose rape if you suppport consentual sex."

This replaces my old one - "I don't support the legalization of random murders and thrill kills, either."

This has been another thread about abortion. I expect it'll get locked.
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 6:58:30 AM EDT
I know whatcha mean.

ibtl
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 7:12:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2005 7:13:13 AM EDT by MTUSA]
The next execution in the US will # 1000 since 1976. ( Death Penalty renacted)
Since 1973 (Roe v. Wade) I believe its around 1000 abortions every 12 hr. in the US.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. DUI deaths are staggering too. Accidental deaths in US Hospitals
are very high also. Hmmm, its safer in Bagdhad
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:33:01 PM EDT
but you cant perform the death penalty in the comfort of your own home office

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:33:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:36:56 PM EDT
In before all the ignorant religious biblethumpe.......errr.....never mind.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:40:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:40:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:41:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By avengeusa:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
In before all the ignorant religious biblethumpe.......errr.....never mind.



in before.. me?




nah, garandman and arowneragain
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:42:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By avengeusa:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
In before all the ignorant religious biblethumpe.......errr.....never mind.



in before.. me?



If your Pro-Life, then yes.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:54:49 PM EDT
Quite honestly, I believe abortion is one of the most deplorable practices ever invented. That said, until science comes up with a really ironclad definition of when "life" begins, this will be a real problem. I believe Roe v. Wade is an idiotic decision in that the Constitution says nothing of the sort. It should be an issue that is left up to the individual states. Look, you can go to NV or NJ for gambling, why not go to CA, or NY for an abortion if your state doesn't allow it? I certainly don't want my taxes paying for it either.

On to the death penalty. If I can be guaranteed that a life sentence means just that, and anyone worthy of a death sentence will spend the rest of their lives in prison, I'm cool with getting rid of the death penalty. The ideal situation is that anyone attempting to do serious bodily harm to another is delivered instant and deadly justice at the hands of their victim.

In before the "abortion is murder!" (I would tend to agree, with provisions) and "it's my body" (no, it's not) crowds flame me.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:58:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 3:58:59 PM EDT by ZitiForBreakfast]

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By avengeusa:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
In before all the ignorant religious biblethumpe.......errr.....never mind.



in before.. me?




nah, garandman and arowneragain



There is more, and I am proud to be pro-life.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:26:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
That said, until science comes up with a really ironclad definition of when "life" begins, this will be a real problem.



Life unqestionably begins at conception. At least a new life.
The socialists might not like that being told but it is a fact. They do so like deluding the rest of you with their drivel however.

drj MD
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:34:17 PM EDT
No conflict for me at all.

Unborn children are innocent of any crime.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:49:52 PM EDT
I'm against abortion and the death penalty, but I can understand why those are for capital punishment...
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:54:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 4:55:50 PM EDT by LWilde]
Abortion is infanticide. We have put convenience above life itself. Believe me...I do understand the ramifications of going to full term with a child nobody really "wants"...but how can we continue to kill the innocent remains one of mankind's great mysteries for me.

And for the record, I am very much in favor of the death penalty for capital crimes.

Ten pages max...then a solid lock.

Pass the popcorn!
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:04:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:12:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 6:15:23 PM EDT by Hydguy]

Originally Posted By 4xys2xxs:
No conflict for me at all.

Unborn children are innocent of any crime.



a big +1

I don't see how the 'pro-choice' (she already made the choice in 99% of the cases when she decided to have sex) crowd is so anti- death penalty. It's pretty easy.... THe unborn child is innocent and free from guilt (except on the part of the mother, who feels a lot of guilt) and the criminal that has a death warrant has proven that they are willing to take lives....

A pretty f'ed up way of thinking...
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:21:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:29:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
But the "prochoice" crowd rejects that, and argues that those who have serious reservations about abortion are all religious hypocrite nuts.



You mean like me?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:31:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:32:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
But the "prochoice" crowd rejects that, and argues that those who have serious reservations about abortion are all religious hypocrite nuts.



You mean like me?

Why do you reject the biological definition of life?



I dont.

I have *completely* different reasons for being pro choice then thinking life doesnt begin at X point.
I usually just play devils advocate as much as possible on the issue for my own amusement, but it doesnt change the fact I am firmly pro choice.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:33:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:36:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 6:38:30 PM EDT by Specop_007]

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
What are those reasons?



Theres a few reasons. Most I can convince myself of otherwise, but theres one glaring reason I could not in good consience be pro life.
I can visualize at least 1 scenario in which I support abortions. By definition you either do or do not support abortion (pro choice, pro life).
Since I can find at least 1 example in which I support abortion I have to, by definition, be pro choice.

This is not to say I think it should be an everyday occurance, or a form of contraceptive. But I have to take the good with the bad, because again by definition I can find at least 1 example in which I support abortion.

The other lesser reasons include the fact I fucking hate people who push there values on others. Doesnt seem much like a free country when someone else can tell me what to do. Granted, it happens every day. Such is life.
Also, I dont think its my job to judge them. I'll let them chop up the baby andlet God judge those in question.



On a completely unrelated note, where do you classify the morning after pill?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:40:02 PM EDT
I support both, well limited abortion at least

but I've never understood that libtard argument. How they can see executing someone for committing a crime as bad but killing a fetus that has hurt no one boggles my mind, and this si coming form someone that doesn't consider a fetus to be a person until it can survive outside the womb without more than ablanket and someone to change its diaper and put a bottle in its mouth
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:54:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:12:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Aren't all laws the result of somebody (or a group of somebodies) pushing their values on everybody else?
OTOH, you are correct on the free country part, and on most other issues outside of abortion, we'd likely be in agreement. I see red when people scream about how wonderful taxes are, and I am astonished that there are ANY gun control supporters left in this country.



I agree, which is why most laws I dont particularly care for aside from those required to keep the country running in a relatively normal fashion.



"Morning After Pill" is a misnomer, as it can be used up to 72 hours after sexual intercourse. I have no problem with it, since I adhere to the accepted scientific definition of life. It poses no moral contradiction to me because it prevents various pieces of matter from becoming life, instead of destroying life after it has started.


Fair enough.


Reference the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
That's why the definition of life matters.



And then what happens why therights of one individual clashes with another? To grant the right to life to one may be to deny the right of happiness to another.
Or more to the point, to grant the right of life to one may be to deny the right of life to the other.

So, when the rights of one clash with another, how do we choose?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:45:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 7:49:16 PM EDT by sysop]

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
but you cant perform the death penalty in the comfort of your own home office

img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/deathray187/abortionkit.jpg



Personally, I have not problem with this particular issue. I'm Pro-Choice and Pro-Death Penalty.

Are any of you here old enough or honest enough to admit that even when abortion was illegal it happened on a daily basis here in the US.

If you were a person of means it was safer because all the female (devoute Christian women in Middle and Upper Class) in question had to do was go to her doctor and say, "I think I have an urinary infection.". The doctor would say, "Oh really, when was your last period?" Wink, wink, nudge, nudge and it was done.

Those with no means ended up paying $200 or so dollars for the Backroom deal. Sometimes it everything turned out just fine but other times the female undergoing the proceedure died or was gravely injured.

It was all hush hush and no one spoke of it.

Do we really want to go back to this hypocrital system? Do you really want it to be mandated by law that your 14 year old daughter has to have the baby of a 16 year old boy?

Do you really want the law to mandate that Sheniqua Hope King, Maria Lopez Martinez and Suzie Joe Olsen who don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of must give birth to a child who they can't even tell you who the father is? Oh Yeah, lets just fill the USA up with fatherless children who will be raised on welfare to become jaded criminals.









I want all you holier than thow Pro-Lifers to think about this. It's Christmas Dinner and your teenage daughter announces to you, the rest of the family right there in front of your God and everyone that she is pregnant.

You're the average disconnected parent, you don't know who's she's been dating and she refuses to tell you who the father is either because she won't or worse yet she doesn't know.

You're barely making ends meet as it is what with the price of gas and so on.

Now like I said, I am Pro-Choice and my last choice is abortion but do you want the law to mandate that your daughter must give birth to this child?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:48:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sysop:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
but you cant perform the death penalty in the comfort of your own home office

img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/deathray187/abortionkit.jpg



Personally, I have not problem with this particular issue. I'm Pro-Choice and Pro-Death Penalty.

Are any of you here old enough or honest enough to admit that even when abortion was illegal it happened on a daily basis here in the US.

If you were a person of means it was safer because all the female (devoute Christian women in Middle and Upper Class) in question had to do was go to her doctor and say, "I think I have an urinary infection.". The doctor would say, "Oh really, when was your last period?" Wink, wink, nudge, nudge and it was done.

Those with no means ended up paying $200 or so dollars for the Backroom deal. Sometimes it everything turned out just fine but other times the female undergoing the proceedure died or was gravely injured.

It was all hush hush and no one spoke of it.

Do we really want to go back to this hypocrital system? Do you really want it to be mandated by law that your 14 year old daughter has to have the baby of a 16 year old boy?

Do you really want the law to mandate that Sheniqua Hope King, Maria Lopez Martinez and Suzie Joe Olsen who don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of must give birth to a child who they can't even tell you who the father is? Oh Yeah, lets just fill the USA up with fatherless children who will be raised on welfare to become jaded criminals.









I want all you holier than thow Pro-Lifer to think about this. It's Christmas Dinner and your teenage daughter announces to you, the rest of the family right there in front of your God and everyone that she is pregnant.

Your the average disconnected parent, you don't know who's she's been dating and she refuses to tell you who the father is either because she won't or worse yet she doesn't know.

You're barely making ends meet as it is what with the price of gas and so on.

Now like I said, I am Pro-Choice and my last choice is abortion but do you want the law to mandate that your daughter must give birth to this child?



How about this scenario sysop....
What if you take your 14 year old daughter to the doctor and he tells you "If she carries thisbaby, mostlikely it will kill her".....

Lets see how many people will suddenly compromise that bullshit Pro-Life stancewhen its their own family on the line.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:32:00 PM EDT
My point is, if you as a parent don't want your daughter, wife or whatever to get an abortion then Freedom of Choice allows that. Teach your daughter your values and tell her that if she gets pregnant, you will be understanding about her indiscresion and all that matters to you is the ?life? of the fetus in question.

After all even if your wife is pregnant with another mans child, if you're a Pro-lifer then there is only one choice as far as the fetus is concerned.... RIGHT?

Regardless of what happens to your relationship with your wife the fetus must live.

After all life begins at the moment of inception.

If you feel that strongly about it then communicate that to your family. Just because it's legal to get an abortion doesn't mean that you can't make it perfectly clear that regardless of the circumstances every fetus is sacred. Tell your daughters that you would prefer they save themselves for marriage and not use birth control or EVUL condoms because every sperm is sacred. But if an accident happens you'll be understanding. If you or she can't afford to raise the baby she can have it and adopt it out.

Adoption is a viable option. It beats abortion IMHO. How about that?

Your wife get pregnant from fucking some other guy, you can raise the child or give it up for adoption.

Or you get some married woman pregnant... What would you do?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:36:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By sysop:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
but you cant perform the death penalty in the comfort of your own home office

img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/deathray187/abortionkit.jpg



Personally, I have not problem with this particular issue. I'm Pro-Choice and Pro-Death Penalty.

Are any of you here old enough or honest enough to admit that even when abortion was illegal it happened on a daily basis here in the US.

If you were a person of means it was safer because all the female (devoute Christian women in Middle and Upper Class) in question had to do was go to her doctor and say, "I think I have an urinary infection.". The doctor would say, "Oh really, when was your last period?" Wink, wink, nudge, nudge and it was done.

Those with no means ended up paying $200 or so dollars for the Backroom deal. Sometimes it everything turned out just fine but other times the female undergoing the proceedure died or was gravely injured.

It was all hush hush and no one spoke of it.

Do we really want to go back to this hypocrital system? Do you really want it to be mandated by law that your 14 year old daughter has to have the baby of a 16 year old boy?

Do you really want the law to mandate that Sheniqua Hope King, Maria Lopez Martinez and Suzie Joe Olsen who don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of must give birth to a child who they can't even tell you who the father is? Oh Yeah, lets just fill the USA up with fatherless children who will be raised on welfare to become jaded criminals.

I want all you holier than thow Pro-Lifer to think about this. It's Christmas Dinner and your teenage daughter announces to you, the rest of the family right there in front of your God and everyone that she is pregnant.

Your the average disconnected parent, you don't know who's she's been dating and she refuses to tell you who the father is either because she won't or worse yet she doesn't know.

You're barely making ends meet as it is what with the price of gas and so on.

Now like I said, I am Pro-Choice and my last choice is abortion but do you want the law to mandate that your daughter must give birth to this child?



How about this scenario sysop....
What if you take your 14 year old daughter to the doctor and he tells you "If she carries thisbaby, mostlikely it will kill her".....

Lets see how many people will suddenly compromise that bullshit Pro-Life stancewhen its their own family on the line.



A healthy 14 yo can deliver a baby without any life threatening issues. Before there was an 'age of consent' young girls used to give birth with no modern medical assistance. Laws have evolved that no longer allow a 14 yo to get married (in most civilized countries), but the biological means are still there.

So, your arguement here is mostly BS.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:38:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sysop:
My point is, if you as a parent don't want your daughter, wife or whatever to get an abortion then Freedom of Choice allows that. Teach your daughter your values and tell her that if she gets pregnant, you will be understanding about her indiscresion and all that matters to you is the ?life? of the fetus in question.

After all even if your wife is pregnant with another mans child, if you're a Pro-lifer then there is only one choice as far as the fetus is concerned.... RIGHT?

Regardless of what happens to your relationship with your wife the fetus must live.

After all life begins at the moment of inception.

If you feel that strongly about it then communicate that to your family. Just because it's legal to get an abortion doesn't mean that you can't make it perfectly clear that regardless of the circumstances every fetus is sacred. Tell your daughters that you would prefer they save themselves for marriage and not use birth control or EVUL condoms because every sperm is sacred. But if an accident happens you'll be understanding. If you or she can't afford to raise the baby she can have it and adopt it out.

Adoption is a viable option. It beats abortion IMHO. How about that?

Your wife get pregnant from fucking some other guy, you can raise the child or give it up for adoption. OR you divorce her for adultry, and have nothing to do with that child. She fucked up in this instance

Or you get some married woman pregnant... What would you do?Pay child support

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:43:23 PM EDT
The biggest problem with the 'pro choice' crowd is that it is THE WOMAN'S CHOICE, and the man has no say. If she wants an aborition, she has it. If she doesn't, the father gets nailed for child support if they don't get married.
But if the man WANTS the child, he has NO CHOICE in the matter.

But the bottom line is that the woman has a choice in 95%+ of the cases to chose to NOT HAVE SEX.
Once she is pregnant, it is no longer JUST HER BODY. SHe is carrying the body of a child, and the baby should have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE, BECAUSE IT"S BODY AND LIFE IS THE ONE BEING DESTROYED.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:44:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
That said, until science comes up with a really ironclad definition of when "life" begins, this will be a real problem.



Life unqestionably begins at conception. At least a new life.
The socialists might not like that being told but it is a fact. They do so like deluding the rest of you with their drivel however.

drj MD



Care to elaborate or support with facts........at conception all they are are two cells......all (living cells) are lets say alive....do we give all the rights we give to humans to living cells.....no, that would be ridiculous. Early abortion is not murder like everyone says, its not even a baby. IMO---and science
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:50:20 PM EDT
Abortion is usually the final act in a series of immoral activities.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:58:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
A healthy 14 yo can deliver a baby without any life threatening issues. Before there was an 'age of consent' young girls used to give birth with no modern medical assistance. Laws have evolved that no longer allow a 14 yo to get married (in most civilized countries), but the biological means are still there.

So, your arguement here is mostly BS.




I think the point being portayed is that the age doesn't matter.

What if your wife had a tubal pregnancy? you have two choices: Abort, or attept to carry the child through, and possibly lose your wife AND child.

I'm not taking sides on this one, But i believe that's what specop_007 was getting at. Not so much the age, but the circumstance.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:06:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
That said, until science comes up with a really ironclad definition of when "life" begins, this will be a real problem.



Life unqestionably begins at conception. At least a new life.
The socialists might not like that being told but it is a fact. They do so like deluding the rest of you with their drivel however.

drj MD



Care to elaborate or support with facts........at conception all they are are two cells......all (living cells) are lets say alive....do we give all the rights we give to humans to living cells.....no, that would be ridiculous. Early abortion is not murder like everyone says, its not even a baby. IMO---and science



No, at conception it is one cell, a zygote and is a new life.
You can draw whatever artificial line you want calling it one thing or another to diminish its worth and dehumanize the baby, but it is just terminology.

The question was when life begins. That is clearcut and obvious to anyone who knows anything about human biology or medicine other than what they found in some socialist pamphlet advocating the murder of your children.

Support it with facts?
Pull your head out of your ass and read a fucking book. You retards like to tell me I am condescending or act intellectually superior, etc but talking to some of you is like watching a white mouse blunder its way thru a maze trying to find the cheese.

I'll give you a piece of advice: Before you come on GD and flap your hole like some of the other retards around here maybe you should actually look into something before you come here and run your mouth. That goes for plenty of you jackasses BTW and is not exclusive to this thread by any means. I don't say something here unless I am pretty damn sure I am right. Not 100% but pretty damn close. If I don't know I either look it up or shut my mouth.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:13:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
A healthy 14 yo can deliver a baby without any life threatening issues. Before there was an 'age of consent' young girls used to give birth with no modern medical assistance. Laws have evolved that no longer allow a 14 yo to get married (in most civilized countries), but the biological means are still there.

So, your arguement here is mostly BS.




I think the point being portayed is that the age doesn't matter.

What if your wife had a tubal pregnancy? you have two choices: Abort, or attept to carry the child through, and possibly lose your wife AND child.

I'm not taking sides on this one, But i believe that's what specop_007 was getting at. Not so much the age, but the circumstance.



A tubal, or ectopic prenancy, is not viable and has NO chance for survival. It can also kill the mother. Entirely different ballgame.

I do advocate abortion for rape, LIFE of the mother, or for some birth defects. But ya know, I have never had a woman come in and tell me ANY of these were the case. Sure they occur but are a tiny minority of the convenience abortions done.
If it were ever restricted to those things there would be 2 million rapes resulting in pregnancy yearly.

This the line I give libs when they bring this stuff up:

I am not opposed to abortion for those reasons, but you people will not restrict it to that, so if my only choices are between 1 million abortions a year or none, I choose none.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:17:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
I am not opposed to abortion for those reasons, but you people will not restrict it to that, so if my only choices are between 1 million abortions a year or none, I choose none.



[twilight zone] "By 'you people'.....you make reference to the state?" [/twilight zone]


popped in my head. completely irrelevant. Or is it?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:21:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
That said, until science comes up with a really ironclad definition of when "life" begins, this will be a real problem.



Life unqestionably begins at conception. At least a new life.
The socialists might not like that being told but it is a fact. They do so like deluding the rest of you with their drivel however.

drj MD



Care to elaborate or support with facts........at conception all they are are two cells......all (living cells) are lets say alive....do we give all the rights we give to humans to living cells.....no, that would be ridiculous. Early abortion is not murder like everyone says, its not even a baby. IMO---and science



No, at conception it is one cell, a zygote and is a new life.
You can draw whatever artificial line you want calling it one thing or another to diminish its worth and dehumanize the baby, but it is just terminology.

The question was when life begins. That is clearcut and obvious to anyone who knows anything about human biology or medicine other than what they found in some socialist pamphlet advocating the murder of your children.

Support it with facts?
Pull your head out of your ass and read a fucking book. You retards like to tell me I am condescending or act intellectually superior, etc but talking to some of you is like watching a white mouse blunder its way thru a maze trying to find the cheese.

I'll give you a piece of advice: Before you come on GD and flap your hole like some of the other retards around here maybe you should actually look into something before you come here and run your mouth. That goes for plenty of you jackasses BTW and is not exclusive to this thread by any means. I don't say something here unless I am pretty damn sure I am right. Not 100% but pretty damn close. If I don't know I either look it up or shut my mouth.



A zygote is ONE CEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLL............not a human and should not be subject to human rights.....so you sir shut your mouth....Yes it is considered to be the begining of a humanm but is not considered to be a child or baby that is ALIVE. Life for humans is considered to be brain activity along with but not limited to a heart beat.....a zygote has neither....but you read so im sure you already knew that.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:24:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
I am not opposed to abortion for those reasons, but you people will not restrict it to that, so if my only choices are between 1 million abortions a year or none, I choose none.



[twilight zone] "By 'you people'.....you make reference to the state?" [/twilight zone]


popped in my head. completely irrelevant. Or is it?



Socialists.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:27:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:28:34 PM EDT
Let the Free Market decide!
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:33:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
That said, until science comes up with a really ironclad definition of when "life" begins, this will be a real problem.



Life unqestionably begins at conception. At least a new life.
The socialists might not like that being told but it is a fact. They do so like deluding the rest of you with their drivel however.

drj MD



Care to elaborate or support with facts........at conception all they are are two cells......all (living cells) are lets say alive....do we give all the rights we give to humans to living cells.....no, that would be ridiculous. Early abortion is not murder like everyone says, its not even a baby. IMO---and science



No, at conception it is one cell, a zygote and is a new life.
You can draw whatever artificial line you want calling it one thing or another to diminish its worth and dehumanize the baby, but it is just terminology.

The question was when life begins. That is clearcut and obvious to anyone who knows anything about human biology or medicine other than what they found in some socialist pamphlet advocating the murder of your children.

Support it with facts?
Pull your head out of your ass and read a fucking book. You retards like to tell me I am condescending or act intellectually superior, etc but talking to some of you is like watching a white mouse blunder its way thru a maze trying to find the cheese.

I'll give you a piece of advice: Before you come on GD and flap your hole like some of the other retards around here maybe you should actually look into something before you come here and run your mouth. That goes for plenty of you jackasses BTW and is not exclusive to this thread by any means. I don't say something here unless I am pretty damn sure I am right. Not 100% but pretty damn close. If I don't know I either look it up or shut my mouth.



A zygote is ONE CEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLL............not a human and should not be subject to human rights.....so you sir shut your mouth....Yes it is considered to be the begining of a humanm but is not considered to be a child or baby that is ALIVE. Life for humans is considered to be brain activity along with but not limited to a heart beat.....a zygote has neither....but you read so im sure you already knew that.



I am afraid sir, that you suffer from terminal and incurable idiocy. There is nothing more I can do for you. I would send you to a specialist but there is nothing they could do either as you are a hopeless case. If you insist on trying something I would steer you away from faith healing, miracle cures, or even colloidal silver but you might try actually educating yourself. It would take a Helluva lot of effort and dedication at this point, given how far gone you are, and I can guarantee nothing with that in consideration, but it might be worth the effort to you personally. If nothing else, perhaps you might meet your maker with an IQ over 78 thereby preventing considerable consternation on his part(never a good thing) in trying to get his points across to you but, once again, I am afraid your case is a hopeless one.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:36:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

I am afraid sir, that you suffer from terminal and incurable idiocy.




hmm...dr.....terminal and incurable idiocy.....


Does this mean he can no longer own firearms? lol....
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:37:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

No, at conception it is one cell, a zygote and is a new life.
You can draw whatever artificial line you want calling it one thing or another to diminish its worth and dehumanize the baby, but it is just terminology.

The question was when life begins. That is clearcut and obvious to anyone who knows anything about human biology or medicine other than what they found in some socialist pamphlet advocating the murder of your children.

Support it with facts?
Pull your head out of your ass and read a fucking book. You retards like to tell me I am condescending or act intellectually superior, etc but talking to some of you is like watching a white mouse blunder its way thru a maze trying to find the cheese.

I'll give you a piece of advice: Before you come on GD and flap your hole like some of the other retards around here maybe you should actually look into something before you come here and run your mouth. That goes for plenty of you jackasses BTW and is not exclusive to this thread by any means. I don't say something here unless I am pretty damn sure I am right. Not 100% but pretty damn close. If I don't know I either look it up or shut my mouth.



I agree with you 100%. At conception, it is a new life. As soon as the oocyte releases the enzymes that destroy the points at which another sperm can make its way through the oocyte's cell membrane, a new life has begun. No doubt. How could you make the distinction otherwise? That is definitely the line that is crossed.

The genetic material from the male has combined with the genetic material from the female. This is a new human being.

Some of these fail to be implanted. Some of them don't start producing progesterone early enough and the nutritious uterine lining is sloughed off and they die. Some make it.

Now we deal with the next question. Is abortion murder, or is it justifiable homicide? Under what circumstances is it justifiable to kill another human being? Is it that they must commit a crime that invokes the death penalty, or is it that they are too inconvenient to support? (welfare)

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:37:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
That said, until science comes up with a really ironclad definition of when "life" begins, this will be a real problem.



Life unqestionably begins at conception. At least a new life.
The socialists might not like that being told but it is a fact. They do so like deluding the rest of you with their drivel however.

drj MD



Care to elaborate or support with facts........at conception all they are are two cells......all (living cells) are lets say alive....do we give all the rights we give to humans to living cells.....no, that would be ridiculous. Early abortion is not murder like everyone says, its not even a baby. IMO---and science



No, at conception it is one cell, a zygote and is a new life.
You can draw whatever artificial line you want calling it one thing or another to diminish its worth and dehumanize the baby, but it is just terminology.

The question was when life begins. That is clearcut and obvious to anyone who knows anything about human biology or medicine other than what they found in some socialist pamphlet advocating the murder of your children.

Support it with facts?
Pull your head out of your ass and read a fucking book. You retards like to tell me I am condescending or act intellectually superior, etc but talking to some of you is like watching a white mouse blunder its way thru a maze trying to find the cheese.

I'll give you a piece of advice: Before you come on GD and flap your hole like some of the other retards around here maybe you should actually look into something before you come here and run your mouth. That goes for plenty of you jackasses BTW and is not exclusive to this thread by any means. I don't say something here unless I am pretty damn sure I am right. Not 100% but pretty damn close. If I don't know I either look it up or shut my mouth.



A zygote is ONE CEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLL............not a human and should not be subject to human rights.....so you sir shut your mouth....Yes it is considered to be the begining of a humanm but is not considered to be a child or baby that is ALIVE. Life for humans is considered to be brain activity along with but not limited to a heart beat.....a zygote has neither....but you read so im sure you already knew that.



I am afraid sir, that you suffer from terminal and incurable idiocy. There is nothing more I can do for you. I would send you to a specialist but there is nothing they could do either as you are a hopeless case. If you insist on trying something I would steer you away from faith healing, miracle cures, or even colloidal silver but you might try actually educating yourself. It would take a Helluva lot of effort and dedication at this point, given how far gone you are, and I can guarantee nothing with that in consideration, but it might be worth the effort to you personally. If nothing else, perhaps you might meet your maker with an IQ over 78 thereby preventing considerable consternation on his part(never a good thing) in trying to get his points across to you but, once again, I am afraid your case is a hopeless one.




Nice argument....I am convinced....BTW...I will match wits with you any day....Have you ever taken a science class......Jr high level will do?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:46:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 10:03:40 PM EDT by drjarhead]

Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
That said, until science comes up with a really ironclad definition of when "life" begins, this will be a real problem.



Life unqestionably begins at conception. At least a new life.
The socialists might not like that being told but it is a fact. They do so like deluding the rest of you with their drivel however.

drj MD



Care to elaborate or support with facts........at conception all they are are two cells......all (living cells) are lets say alive....do we give all the rights we give to humans to living cells.....no, that would be ridiculous. Early abortion is not murder like everyone says, its not even a baby. IMO---and science



No, at conception it is one cell, a zygote and is a new life.
You can draw whatever artificial line you want calling it one thing or another to diminish its worth and dehumanize the baby, but it is just terminology.

The question was when life begins. That is clearcut and obvious to anyone who knows anything about human biology or medicine other than what they found in some socialist pamphlet advocating the murder of your children.

Support it with facts?
Pull your head out of your ass and read a fucking book. You retards like to tell me I am condescending or act intellectually superior, etc but talking to some of you is like watching a white mouse blunder its way thru a maze trying to find the cheese.

I'll give you a piece of advice: Before you come on GD and flap your hole like some of the other retards around here maybe you should actually look into something before you come here and run your mouth. That goes for plenty of you jackasses BTW and is not exclusive to this thread by any means. I don't say something here unless I am pretty damn sure I am right. Not 100% but pretty damn close. If I don't know I either look it up or shut my mouth.



A zygote is ONE CEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLL............not a human and should not be subject to human rights.....so you sir shut your mouth....Yes it is considered to be the begining of a humanm but is not considered to be a child or baby that is ALIVE. Life for humans is considered to be brain activity along with but not limited to a heart beat.....a zygote has neither....but you read so im sure you already knew that.



I am afraid sir, that you suffer from terminal and incurable idiocy. There is nothing more I can do for you. I would send you to a specialist but there is nothing they could do either as you are a hopeless case. If you insist on trying something I would steer you away from faith healing, miracle cures, or even colloidal silver but you might try actually educating yourself. It would take a Helluva lot of effort and dedication at this point, given how far gone you are, and I can guarantee nothing with that in consideration, but it might be worth the effort to you personally. If nothing else, perhaps you might meet your maker with an IQ over 78 thereby preventing considerable consternation on his part(never a good thing) in trying to get his points across to you but, once again, I am afraid your case is a hopeless one.




Nice argument....I am convinced....BTW...I will match wits with you any day....Have you ever taken a science class......Jr high level will do?



You already tried matching wits with me and came up short.
I imagine the last girl you felt up in your father's back seat felt the same.

3 yrs Bio, 2 yrs Chem, 1 yr Physics in HS
BS in Microbiology and Chemistry in College
4 years of medical school which included DEVELOPMENTAL BIOLOGY

I've delivered about 100 babies.

Quit wasting my time.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:02:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 10:06:45 PM EDT by drjarhead]

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:


Now we deal with the next question. Is abortion murder, or is it justifiable homicide?



Rarely justified IMO.

Under what circumstances is it justifiable to kill another human being?



Self defense.
Fits rape and life of mother.

Is it that they must commit a crime that invokes the death penalty, or is it that they are too inconvenient to support? (welfare)




How about we get rid of the welfare losers and bring in the new DNA?
Gets my vote. At least the baby has potential.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:05:15 PM EDT
The death penalty affects people who had a chance at life, abortion destroys life before it has a chance to do right or wrong. Fuck criminals, its all about the kids.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:11:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
science








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