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Posted: 11/8/2005 4:40:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2005 4:40:46 PM EDT by david_g17]
I complained when they took the firearms up in New Orleans to my Democratic Senator.

got this in the mail today:



I understand your concern with some recent news reports about gun confiscation that has taken place in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. Citizens of the United States must be afforded all of their rights, and I hold the right to bear arms, granted to us under the Second Amendment, as vital to our existence as a nation. In an effort to protect these rights, I assure you that I will research this matter fully, and as a member of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Commitee, I will have the opportunity to question officials regarding the response to the disaster. I will keep your concerns in mind during this process.



only quoted part, but how's that for pro-2nd?

eta: senator is Mark Pryor of Arkansas.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 4:43:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
I complained when they took the firearms up in New Orleans to my Democratic Senator.

got this in the mail today:



I understand your concern with some recent news reports about gun confiscation that has taken place in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. Citizens of the United States must be afforded all of their rights, and I hold the right to bear arms, granted to us under the Second Amendment, as vital to our existence as a nation. In an effort to protect these rights, I assure you that I will research this matter fully, and as a member of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Commitee, I will have the opportunity to question officials regarding the response to the disaster. I will keep your concerns in mind during this process.



only quoted part, but how's that for pro-2nd?

eta: senator is Mark Pryor of Arkansas.

Pryor is an Arkansas democrat. Bill wasn't. Pryor knows how us Arkies feel.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 4:48:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 4:50:04 PM EDT
I dont think Democrats are bad people, liberals are bad people. Atleast modern liberals
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 4:57:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:
I dont think Democrats are bad people, liberals are bad people. Atleast modern liberals



I think all people are bad people..
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 4:57:59 PM EDT
Consider the state he represents if he was crying out for gun control he would not represent Arkansas long.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 4:58:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sherrick13:
When a NE democrap says that I'll be pleased. It is still nice to hear. But is he just telling you what you want to hear?

Pryor has a pretty good rep in Arkansas.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 5:00:22 PM EDT
Awesome!

My senator (Hutchison - R) gave me back a b.s. letter about "thank you for your concern about Hurricane Katrina. Lots of people are in need of assistance and its so tragic, blah blah blah." not one word about gun confiscation or the violation of rights. what a crock of shit.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 5:07:30 PM EDT
I am glad that I learned from Arfcom what to expect if the police knock on my door during a natural(or other type)of emergency
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 5:10:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 5:10:35 PM EDT
I emailed him to thank him !

LB
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 5:11:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
The very statement is false. The Second Amendment does not GRANT the right, it states that the PRE-EXISTING right shall not be infringed.

The right is God-given, as no earthly agency conferred it upon us.

CJ


Easy on the petty semantics.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 5:12:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I am glad that I learned from Arfcom what to expect if the police knock on my door during a natural(or other type)of emergency

The main thing I've learned is that if a natural disaster ever happens where the feds come in, BO is the only option.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 5:25:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
The very statement is false. The Second Amendment does not GRANT the right, it states that the PRE-EXISTING right shall not be infringed.

The right is God-given, as no earthly agency conferred it upon us.

CJ


Easy on the petty semantics.



It's not petty semantics, it is a fundamental part of the Constitution. For you to not understand that is part of the problem.

G
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 5:28:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2005 5:28:55 PM EDT by 22bad]

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I am glad that I learned from Arfcom what to expect if the police knock on my door during a natural(or other type)of emergency

The main thing I've learned is that if a natural disaster ever happens where the feds come in, BO is the only option.



Body Odor?

Just kidding, what if you can not leave due to family responsibilities or if the situation occured too quickly?

Bugging Out may NOT be an option........
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 5:31:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
I dont think Democrats are bad people, liberals are bad people. Atleast modern liberals



I think all people are bad people..



+ infinity
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 5:47:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
I dont think Democrats are bad people, liberals are bad people. Atleast modern liberals



I think all people are bad people..



+ infinity




+infinity +1
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 5:54:25 PM EDT
He's not rated by GOA. What's his voting record.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 5:58:09 PM EDT
Wow we are granted our rights? Typical DemocRap response. No clue as to why we even have a bill of rights.

Chalk his response up as "blowing smoke"
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 6:05:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
The very statement is false. The Second Amendment does not GRANT the right, it states that the PRE-EXISTING right shall not be infringed.

The right is God-given, as no earthly agency conferred it upon us.

CJ




To get a Democrat to admit that it is an individual right, never mind where they think it came from, is pretty dang good.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 6:30:17 PM EDT
bah, say what you will, but I can name more than a few Republicans who would be afraid to say that the second amendment is "vital to our existance as a nation."

I'm not bashing Republicans - I've always voted a full R ballot.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 6:39:51 PM EDT
Pryor is not too shaby for a Dem.

He is also part of the group of 14 and has said publicly that all S.C. nominations deserve a straight up or down vote, regardless of political ideology.

He's a damn sight better than the other joke we have for a Senator.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 7:10:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By glock23carry:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
The very statement is false. The Second Amendment does not GRANT the right, it states that the PRE-EXISTING right shall not be infringed.

The right is God-given, as no earthly agency conferred it upon us.

CJ


Easy on the petty semantics.



It's not petty semantics, it is a fundamental part of the Constitution. For you to not understand that is part of the problem.

G

If the second amendmant doesn't grant us the RKBA, what does? Legally it does. Period, end of story. If you want to say it's a god given right fine. But The 2nd amendment is exactly what grants us this right. For you not to understand that is a problem.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 7:19:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
The very statement is false. The Second Amendment does not GRANT the right, it states that the PRE-EXISTING right shall not be infringed.

The right is God-given, as no earthly agency conferred it upon us.

CJ


Easy on the petty semantics.



That is NOT petty semantics.
Anyone who thinks that our Constitution grants us rights has no place in government.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 7:26:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By glock23carry:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
The very statement is false. The Second Amendment does not GRANT the right, it states that the PRE-EXISTING right shall not be infringed.

The right is God-given, as no earthly agency conferred it upon us.

CJ


Easy on the petty semantics.



It's not petty semantics, it is a fundamental part of the Constitution. For you to not understand that is part of the problem.

G

If the second amendmant doesn't grant us the RKBA, what does? Legally it does. Period, end of story. If you want to say it's a god given right fine. But The 2nd amendment is exactly what grants us this right. For you not to understand that is a problem.



JAYZUZ KEERIST!
If the Constitution grants us rights, then the government is the source of our rights, power, and authority and we are subjects of that government. What can be granted can be taken away.

The reality of the situation is that we provide our government power & authority. The rights protected by the 2nd A is the pointy end of our power & authority over our own government.

This is a fundamental concept of how our government works.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 7:29:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HBruns:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
The very statement is false. The Second Amendment does not GRANT the right, it states that the PRE-EXISTING right shall not be infringed.

The right is God-given, as no earthly agency conferred it upon us.

CJ


Easy on the petty semantics.



That is NOT petty semantics.
Anyone who thinks that our Constitution grants us rights has no place in government.

The constitution is the basis for our laws. Legally it IS what gives us this right. Our government is not based on the bible, or anything else. It is a written document that has been turned to law. You have a rare pro gun democrat and ya'll are saying he should'nt be in office because of a play on words. Fact of the matter is, things are about to be really bad for us, and allies are allies. Pryor is pretty much on our side. But of course you don't want that because of a play on words.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 7:30:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HBruns:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By glock23carry:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
The very statement is false. The Second Amendment does not GRANT the right, it states that the PRE-EXISTING right shall not be infringed.

The right is God-given, as no earthly agency conferred it upon us.

CJ


Easy on the petty semantics.



It's not petty semantics, it is a fundamental part of the Constitution. For you to not understand that is part of the problem.

G

If the second amendmant doesn't grant us the RKBA, what does? Legally it does. Period, end of story. If you want to say it's a god given right fine. But The 2nd amendment is exactly what grants us this right. For you not to understand that is a problem.



JAYZUZ KEERIST!
If the Constitution grants us rights, then the government is the source of our rights, power, and authority and we are subjects of that government. What can be granted can be taken away.

The reality of the situation is that we provide our government power & authority. The rights protected by the 2nd A is the pointy end of our power & authority over our own government.

This is a fundamental concept of how our government works.

I'm not talking about unwritten but known issues. I'm talking LAW.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 7:35:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 7:46:32 PM EDT
Hes right. Its not an issue of semantics. Its a fundamental tenet of constitutional understanding. The constitution of the United States grants the people of the United States NO rights. All rights are inherent in the people first. The constitution is just the document we the people wrote up telling the government which few rights or powers we were willing to give up.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 8:04:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
Awesome!

My senator (Hutchison - R) gave me back a b.s. letter about "thank you for your concern about Hurricane Katrina. Lots of people are in need of assistance and its so tragic, blah blah blah." not one word about gun confiscation or the violation of rights. what a crock of shit.



I got the exact same letter from mine. He just blew right around my concern about gun confiscation.


Asshole.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 8:16:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
The constitution is the basis for our laws. Legally it IS what gives us this right. Our government is not based on the bible, or anything else. It is a written document that has been turned to law. You have a rare pro gun democrat and ya'll are saying he should'nt be in office because of a play on words. Fact of the matter is, things are about to be really bad for us, and allies are allies. Pryor is pretty much on our side. But of course you don't want that because of a play on words.



The Constitution was designed to limit the scope and power of government based on the fact that humans have preexisting rights. To state that the Constitution confers rights to individuals means that the document is supreme to rights inherent to the individual. If you make that assumption, the Constitution can be modified to take those rights away from you. And, yes, they are God-given.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 8:20:06 PM EDT

So, no one has rights except on paper? The authority has to be recognized somewhere and it doesnt come from the Government.

Amendment 9 - The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 9:05:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2005 9:06:37 PM EDT by DVCAPI]

Originally Posted By RichinCM:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
The constitution is the basis for our laws. Legally it IS what gives us this right. Our government is not based on the bible, or anything else. It is a written document that has been turned to law. You have a rare pro gun democrat and ya'll are saying he should'nt be in office because of a play on words. Fact of the matter is, things are about to be really bad for us, and allies are allies. Pryor is pretty much on our side. But of course you don't want that because of a play on words.



The Constitution was designed to limit the scope and power of government based on the fact that humans have preexisting rights. To state that the Constitution confers rights to individuals means that the document is supreme to rights inherent to the individual. If you make that assumption, the Constitution can be modified to take those rights away from you. And, yes, they are God-given.



+1000
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 9:22:54 PM EDT
Democrats have already stated that they intend to preserve the 2nd amendment by banning guns and not allowing sales at gun shows.

No word yet on banning free speech in order to protect the 1st amendment.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 9:39:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2005 9:39:50 PM EDT by Gamma762]

Originally Posted By HBruns:
Anyone who thinks that our Constitution grants us rights has no place in government.



We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 10:18:03 AM EDT
NO ONE has understood what I'm saying. If you are in court over a gun law violation, what's a better defense, "you are violating my constitutional right to KBA by saying I can't have it." OR "God said I could have it, bye bye." OR "The founding fathers intended for me to be able to have it"

Link Posted: 11/9/2005 11:05:07 AM EDT
What the courts do or do not acknowledge WRT the basis for our rights, and how the Constitution interacts with these rights is irrelevant. At the time of this country's founding, the Constitution was understood to be a limited set of powers granted by us, the People, to the Government.
That modern day jurisprudence has switched this around does not invalidate this concept.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 11:06:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2005 11:10:13 AM EDT by Dusty_C]

Originally Posted By Unknown1Sailor:
What the courts do or do not acknowledge WRT the basis for our rights, and how the Constitution interacts with these rights is irrelevant. At the time of this country's founding, the Constitution was understood to be a limited set of powers granted by us, the People, to the Government.
That modern day jurisprudence has switched this around does not invalidate this concept.

What no one is getting is that I'm talking about right here, right now, in the eyes of our lawmakers.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 11:07:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 12:35:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
NO ONE has understood what I'm saying. If you are in court over a gun law violation, what's a better defense, "you are violating my constitutional right to KBA by saying I can't have it." OR "God said I could have it, bye bye." OR "The founding fathers intended for me to be able to have it"




I understand what you're SAYING.... which is probably not what you mean.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 12:37:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HBruns:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
NO ONE has understood what I'm saying. If you are in court over a gun law violation, what's a better defense, "you are violating my constitutional right to KBA by saying I can't have it." OR "God said I could have it, bye bye." OR "The founding fathers intended for me to be able to have it"




I understand what you're SAYING.... which is probably not what you mean.

Fuck it, I give up
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 12:39:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2005 12:41:33 PM EDT by HBruns]

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
What no one is getting is that I'm talking about right here, right now, in the eyes of our lawmakers.



Yea.. exactly the problem!!
The lawmakers see it wrong (and you're agreeing with them). Too many of them think they're in charge, rather than being a servant and subject to the people who put them there.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 12:55:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 12:57:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2005 12:57:32 PM EDT by ArmedAggie]
You shouldn't hold your breath waiting for him to actually do anything.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 2:44:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
I complained when they took the firearms up in New Orleans to my Democratic Senator.

got this in the mail today:



I understand your concern with some recent news reports about gun confiscation that has taken place in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. Citizens of the United States must be afforded all of their rights, and I hold the right to bear arms, granted to us under the Second Amendment, as vital to our existence as a nation. In an effort to protect these rights, I assure you that I will research this matter fully, and as a member of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Commitee, I will have the opportunity to question officials regarding the response to the disaster. I will keep your concerns in mind during this process.



only quoted part, but how's that for pro-2nd?

eta: senator is Mark Pryor of Arkansas.





Did you call or write? I called but never got any response.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 2:51:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
The very statement is false. The Second Amendment does not GRANT the right, it states that the PRE-EXISTING right shall not be infringed.

The right is God-given, as no earthly agency conferred it upon us.

CJ




Beat me to it. Very observant, grasshopper.
Link Posted: 11/11/2005 4:52:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jblachly:

Originally Posted By david_g17:
I complained when they took the firearms up in New Orleans to my Democratic Senator.

got this in the mail today:



I understand your concern with some recent news reports about gun confiscation that has taken place in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. Citizens of the United States must be afforded all of their rights, and I hold the right to bear arms, granted to us under the Second Amendment, as vital to our existence as a nation. In an effort to protect these rights, I assure you that I will research this matter fully, and as a member of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Commitee, I will have the opportunity to question officials regarding the response to the disaster. I will keep your concerns in mind during this process.



only quoted part, but how's that for pro-2nd?

eta: senator is Mark Pryor of Arkansas.





Did you call or write? I called but never got any response.



filled out a form on his web site.
Link Posted: 11/11/2005 5:02:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
The very statement is false. The Second Amendment does not GRANT the right, it states that the PRE-EXISTING right shall not be infringed.

The right is God-given, as no earthly agency conferred it upon us.

CJ




Read above again people...this is an important distinction!
Link Posted: 11/11/2005 5:16:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/11/2005 5:50:21 AM EDT by RevDeadCorpse]

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By HBruns:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
NO ONE has understood what I'm saying. If you are in court over a gun law violation, what's a better defense, "you are violating my constitutional right to KBA by saying I can't have it." OR "God said I could have it, bye bye." OR "The founding fathers intended for me to be able to have it"




I understand what you're SAYING.... which is probably not what you mean.

Fuck it, I give up



Gotta learn the difference between current legal fiction and Founding Intent. Lawyers and polidiots can spin the word "is" fer' Chris' sake. Don't give 'em a word like "granted" or they'll beat you to a bloody pulp with it.

Remember: It isn't a Right if you have to ask PERMISSION.
Link Posted: 11/11/2005 11:54:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 10:00:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Big_Bear:
Senator Pryor probably means well, but he shows a lack of basic understanding of Constitutional tenets. If anyone plans on writing him, cite United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1876)...

"The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The second amendment means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government."

www.guncite.com/court/fed/sc/92us542.html



Couldn't have said it better byself!

I've seen a lot of references to this being an important "distinction," but I think the word we've been looking for, and talking around is 'enumeration.'

The Bill of Rights enumerates certain rights, thus defining them, and in no-uncertain terms, spelling those rights out to Government. The Bill of Rights is like the proverbial line in the sand: "Whatever the government we create does in the future, it absolutely will not be allowed by the people to violate these rights we here write."

I'll cede the point that in the legal arena, the 2nd amendment is the best defense of a right that "predates" the government, but it only works that way legally because the judges who are responsible for interpreting laws understand the distinction between "priveleges granted" and rights enumerated.
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