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Or members could just stop being whiny little bitches. You have to fucking try to get banned from this forum.

I swear, all the negativity about the site recently is from leftist plants trying to tear this place apart.

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You realize you just called members whiny little bitches?  I wonder if you will be sanctioned?

Here is the meaningful part of CoC #6 you may have missed:
Attacking or insulting a member in an effort to elicit a negative response.You have the right to disagree, but please do so in a respectful manner.

You could have said that whole thing without inflaming matters like you just did.

Hope things get better for you.  The OP is trying to help, maybe you could take that into consideration?

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Ben-

You've clearly put a ton of thought into this, and it is appreciated.  I've been watching the (god knows how many) threads about member dissatisfaction, including the Hubris thread in team.

This is excellent framework. It really is.  You've stuck your neck out on countless occasions, and while you did so on a very level headed, even keeled way - you still spoke up.

This thread is not only a continuation of that, but an escalation of sorts.

Before now, I've never spoken up on site issues.  But, with all that you've exposed on all members behalf - I am doing so now.

While I 100% commend you on developing a framework that benefits not only the membership base by way of providing a grievance forum with a focused, identifiable and actionable SOP, you've also provided Admin/Staff/Mods a consolidated and direct receptacle for feedback.

I would suggest that every gripe be accompanied by corroborating evidence.

My sole concern (aside from the shitposting contingent of membership turning it into a shitshow) is that any productive and evidentiary grievance aired, will be met with Admin/ Staff dismissiveness.

I don't mention dismissiveness in a defensive way. I say it as a relatively quiet, non-boat rocking member that observes more than they speak. My concern is that a clear patern of issues that are demonstrated with corroborated evidence will be met with:

Standing high atop the Capitol steps

"Citizens of Arfcom!  We must unite in these trying times..."


Where, in reality, it needs to be:

Rolls up shirtsleeves, laces up work boots and steps onto the jobsite/ production floor.

" alright guys, things aren't going right - what do we need to do to turn things around.  You're the front line.  What are you seeing?"

THAT is what is missing, in my opinion.  Not just acceptance of member input, be execution of their recommendations.

And I say that not only in a tool/ tech implementation aspect, but as a personnel// staffing concern.

I lead organizations.

When there is turmult, it is necessary to listen to those involved/ affected in order to identify, isolate and eliminate the source of contention. Sometimes that's not possible.  Many times it is.  It may be difficult, but it it a possible.  Nothing happens in a vacuum, and what may seem reasonable in a conference room, may not translate well on a sales floor.

When those (rare) occasions occur in my orgs, I suck it up, meet with the teams, and without calling out any individual specifically, acknowledge that there have been mistakes made and ultimately, the buck stops here.  Changes will be made and new policies/ procedures/ tools implemented to ensure that they don't reoccur, and to better enable the front lines (in this case, membership) can continue on and succeed.

I hope you have buy-in from Admin/ Staff that it is a reciprocal/ 2-way street where member input results in substantive change, less dismissiveness, or worse, retribution,  

{preparing myself for imminent ban}

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Fuckin' '13ers!!!

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Or members could just stop being whiny little bitches. You have to fucking try to get banned from this forum.

I swear, all the negativity about the site recently is from leftist plants trying to tear this place apart.

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Kind of like a union rep. that goes in to help you when you are suspended for shooting someone.

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always got your back dogg. Here, there, anywhere

https://static.stereogum.com/uploads/2014/09/Stagedive.jpg

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Don't back me because of words back me when its a good belief. When it isn't speak up.

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Haven't read the rest of the pages yet, but I would also add that paying members need to be accounts older than 30 days.


Otherwise, I'm proud of your effort here Ben.  Good work!

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I meant new people as site staff, especially the ones who have been in that position for over 10 years. It's time for a change in that regard - just my opinion in the matter.

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Nowadays it all depends on who initiates the conversation as to who's poo will be flung and how far it will be flung and where it will be flung to

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I get that, but what you're asking for is a pipedream that will probably never happen. However, with my idea of splitting the staff/mods into 2 teams and having 1 take take over for 6 months, then hand it off to the other for the next 6 months would atleast be a feasible start and possibly help with burnout. Not saying it will solve every issue, but its a start and I think would be a fair offer.

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Great idea Ben, glad to see someone is concerned about the direction of the site and articulate enough to explore solutions....  

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I know. A forum like that is just not the place for me. When I eventually get banned, I'll just move on. Maybe finally go back to that Blog I started years ago.

I think it would be degrading to plead for my account back, publicly or privately.  This place was here for years before I joined, and it will probably continue to exist after I'm gone.

Quoted:



ARFCOMtivusa Forum for the rest of us!


1.  Put a Bolt Face in a bag and nail it to the wall (which is considered "the true symbol of ARFCOMtivus").

2. Sit down at a Computer.

3. Before browsing post the Airing of Grievances, an opportunity to tell Staff how they have disappointed you in the past year.

4. Enjoy ARFCOMtivus posts.

5. Amid post, the Feats of Strength begin, where Staff must be trolled by other team members. The honor goes to someone in the thread.

6.  ARFCOMtivus is not over until the Sr Staff locks someone!

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What’s with all this civility? Where am I?

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I, unfortunately, have a hard time forgetting things. I am too good, for my own good, at recognizing patterns.

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Not It!!!

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I love ya, Ben!

No Homo!!!

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Careful what you wish for.

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Since this is more sourced from GD (and by extension, Team, I guess), I'm going to keep my opinions to myself unless asked to share them by the GD folks.  My tech areas are doing okay, I think, so lets focus on getting the GD crew and GD management team together.

I'm just glad to see adult conversation and not poo flinging.  

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Not at all and it has been covered.

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What's with all this civility? Where am I?

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I was joking, he asked me to define shitbird in team.  Same as he did here.

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The rules of you, "Grievance". Forum!

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Well, I'm surprised by the apathy so far. I guess it's more fun to bitch than make suggestions. Sorry, I'm a cynic.

Quoted:
Well, I'm surprised by the apathy so far. I guess it's more fun to bitch than make suggestions. Sorry, I'm a cynic.

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Ya, I am thinking at this point the whole thing is just a relief valve.

One question must be answered first :

Will this "grievance" forum be created ? Just need a yes or no.

We have not heard an answer, just a lot of patting on heads and good boy type of responses.

If we can't create this forum, this whole thread should be nuked ASAP because it serves absolutely no purpose at that point other than a relief valve.

Personally, I think that GB has already decided what he is going to do and is somewhat looking for ideas from us, but too much input would be seen as inmates running the asylum and SS/Mods will lose faith in Admin.

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This just a suggestion and I would like some input from anyone who wants to on how to make this idea better. If you do comment please don't make this about attacking the site, mods, staff or admin. This is meant to help all of us.

If you like it say so. If you don't say why. If you want to add something please do and add why.  If you think something is wrong say why it is.


A suggestion for the grievance forum



I would like for anyone that wants to to come in here and help with the writing of rules, format and anything else that such a place will need.

Rules for the place


1 No bashing of any mod, staff or member.   This is probably the most important if such a place is to succeed.


2 It should be be open to all members and possibly banned members also.  There is no point in having discussions if relevant parties cannot attend.


3 As of right now the membership cannot overturn a decision made by mods, staff or admin. No point in trying to have a conversation if it can be undermined  by a mob.

4 What can be discussed in the forum. Its open to bans warnings and general problems.


5 What cannot be discussed here.  Membership problems. This will not be the place for problems between the general membership. That will just clog up the place and cause unneeded problems.


6 What can be done to those that cannot follow rules here. First asked to behave, second removal from thread and third if a member continues to be abusive or a consistent problem they may be removed banned from the forum. The forum will not be allowed to be used for abuse and general asshatery.


7 How long can a thread run. Threads will have one week to be discussed.  After the thread is closed unless progress is being made at which the thread may be allowed to continue.

8 What happens when a mod or staff is unavailable? If a mod or staff in unavailable then another mod or staff may step in and reply. The mod or staff that is the subject of the thread is always allowed to correct any statement of a substitute mod or staff.


9 When a member is not replying. A member is responsible for timely replies in the thread they started. If the member becomes absent repeatedly the right to post in the forum may be removed.


This was a suggestion for a change on 8



8 What happens when a mod or staff is unavailable? If a mod or staff in unavailable then another mod or staff may step in and reply. The mod or staff that is the subject of the thread is always allowed to correct any statement of a substitute mod or staff."  I think there is a distinction to be made between Staff who sets policy and Mods who execute policy. Mods should only speak to "here is the policy we execute, and here's the guidance Staff gives us about how to execute those policies."  Only Staff should speak to "here's why the policy is this way."  Think of it as the difference between cops and legislatures.  Legislature passes the law, cops enforce the law.  Each is going to have a different perspective on why the law is versus how to execute the law -- and you get nowhere arguing with a cop for a change in the law.  Similarly, you get nowhere arguing with a Mod for a change in policy.  That's Site Staff's job.

Quoted:
I felt a disturbance in the force...

Nobody wants me to be the final word on anything.

It's late, and I don't have anything intelligent to add right now. I will tomorrow. But I will say this - I really appreciate what you're doing, and why you're doing it. You rock. More thoughts tomorrow.

And again - Thank you.

Quoted:
Just a thought for the Grievance Forum;

If member "xxx556" (hope there's not 1 here, lol), catches a ban & wants to challenge it.

One of the first things posted (before anyone jumps on the bandwagon, or starts circling the wagons),
is the members "record".  Not specifics (pictures, posts, etc...), but type of violation & date.

Which the member would agree to have posted (made public) & obviously if staff agrees to doing it.

Such as;

1/2017- coc#7

5/2017- coc#2

3/2018 - coc#4


etc...

That gives some transparency to what has occurred, w/o airing dirty laundry.

If xxx556 is a 15 yr member, & most of the members are unaware of his 16 warnings or locks, that gives some
insight into his patterns.  Might ease some of the thoughts of "unfair ban", before many jump on the bandwagon.

OTOH, if he has 2 warnings during that 15 yrs, that may tell another story.  

If xxx556 truly feels he was unfairly banned or locked, he should have no problem with his record being shown.

If he messed up, & knows he deserves it (presuming he understands accountability, choices & consequences), & has
a history, he's probably not going to want it aired.  

That may prevent some of the "15 yr member xxx556 was BANNED, this is **%%$$###***&" threads.

A couple of other things to go along with this -

1st - if a member gets a warning they believe is undeserved - grieve it, question it, go up the chain of command as has been mentioned
several times. Get an answer, get it resolved.

2nd - if this grievance forum comes to be - and there is a dedicated place to air this - don't allow threads such as the 1 I listed above
to carry on in GD.   They usually just cause more tension, stress, & spread a lot of misinformation.  

Just a thought, YMMV

Quoted:
Overall, I like it. It's a good place to start.

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I'd want to be able to see the entire discipline record the the account being grieved. Context and record matters.

Quoted:
Good work Ben.  A great starter package there.  You have put considerable thought into this.