We are talking 2 different things here.  An ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) is part of an automatic standby system.  This entire thread has been about a manual transfer system using a portable generator.

There are ways to rework his outside disconnect for either an auto or manual transfer system.  But none of them are as easy as installing an interlock like the gentlemen was hoping was possible.  

If it were my house, I would pull off that whole disconnect and install one of these:  https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-TTH2003DR/p10575.html

On one side, we have an electrician trying to help by giving free advise, and the other side, we have GD keyboard commando's making autistic screeching about how they are responsible enough to not need any common sense safety crap because they (or a loved one, friend, utility worker) would never be in danger.

Reminds me of this:

All your Holier than Thou Ranting will never change the fact that countless folks will continue to use Suicide Cords...



And continue to wave guns where they shouldn't and put their finger on the trigger at the wrong times...

As well as shoot themselves in random spots.

That was almost predictable before it went off...

LOL!

If it were my choice I would simply buy a mansion with one already installed for my GD 10 wife and Rolls.

I don't get it.  Are you trying to say that 200A disconnect with built in transfer switch is too expensive and prestigious?

Well then, you'd be surprised at how many normal, middle class people pay $8-12,000 for full auto standby systems.

My folks have a generac natural gas system with ats.  

I have been there visiting when it cycles on- blink- power back on.

Sure beats dragging a tractor out, hooking up the pto set, driving over to the transfer switch....  

I guess I have Lincoln taste on a Ford budget, but someday when I get tired of going out in the weather I might do it  

The auto standby systems are really nice.  But they are better for people with a wife and kids that may be home when you're not there to set the system up.  And for people with lots of power outages.  For me, I'm fine with a portable, my wife can hook it up if she is there alone.

I normally sit down with customers and talk about their need to determine what is best.

If anyone near/in West TN needs help with a transfer switch or interlock installation I will do with you and help save you money.  You cover permit fees and parts. Together we can make your emergency power needs safe.

During the Kentucky ice storm a few years back, people where driving to Jackson, TN to find supplies to make generator connection cords. So the demand for suicide cords goes up here during ice storms and tornadoes. If I can prevent one death or injury in my area by helping for a couple hours I will.


I deal with installing, servicing  12KW- 2MW generators all the time. I have around 9-10 MW of emergency power generation, paralleling, distribution and monitoring that I am responsible for. From 100 Amp single phase ATS, 1200 Amp- 480V 3-phase ATS and larger. Have 4- 3200A/480V generators and Russ Electric paralleling gear that I maintain and do load testing monthly. Heck, I have 4-250KW 480V portables that I test monthly.

I am extremely comfortable around generators, transfer switches. Yes I have ran cords for a portable 2-MW/480V connection. I refuse to operate my own home with a suicide cord and back feeding without interlocks. I may not get hurt, but removing that variable from a stressful no power event is very important.


You guys can argue both sides forever.

Zoe17, the reason I have been going so hard in this thread is the same as what you said.  If my posts could stop someone from making a suicide cord and get them to do it right and safe, it's worth it.

At this point there is no use arguing any further since everything has already been beaten into the ground.

BigPolska, what's her name?  She keeps staring at me, I think she wants me.

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Google Angela White- NOT work safe  

We just pull the meter, use a 220 cord on generator and plug the ends into the house side of the meter.

In TX and NM its been converted to electric.

What was converted to electric?

LOL At 61 years of age I must have managed those risks rather well to have made it this far. Then again maybe I know just enough to be dangerous .  

ETA. Besides you have made a lot of ASSumptions there and you know what they say about that.

When I built my house some years ago, I added a 200 main breaker under the meter can.  I also have another main breaker to my panel and my generator has a breaker as well.  I have a red tag that I attach to my main breaker that state "Generator in use".  When I have to use my generator, it can only feed my house and or my garage, depending on what is going on.  I had an electrician add a connection box and a plug in line for the generator.   The last time I used it, during Harvey I was out in driving rain hooking it up.  No problems.

There isn't much I can do other than point out that you make up strawmen and knock them down.

My posts have in no way criticized your advocacy for using interlocks to make genny useage safer.

My posts have simply pointed out how foolish it was of you to employ some emotionally driven, logical fallacy to attempt to "sell" your already good advice.

I think he is referring to the the pipeline compressor stations that keep the lines packed.

Fair enough!  

@romanack @BigPolska   Bravo Gentlemen, couldn't have said it better myself.  Sorry if I missed others.

Good now that's out of the way.   Tell me what do you think my odds are of getting electrocuted while using my suicide cord as opposed to getting killed by a drunk driver ?

With 3 million people without power at one time down here. What do you think is going to be the body count from people  that ho have used suicide cords? How many line men have been killed so far from this horrible practice  of back feeding a generator here in Florida ?

Just so you know you are correct about how it's done the right way.

No, you haven't.  Norman Newguy did a couple of times though.  At least he could do that before he started ranting about pointing guns at his kids for the 87th time.

I never claimed to be a linemen, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.  I made no claims of in depth understanding of the power grid.  I claimed I could pull the fuse from my pole to clearly, effectively, completely, and unequivocally disconnect my home from the power grid.  You misunderstood the fuse I was referring to, and I share responsibility by saying "above" instead of "below."  However, any confusion was immediately eliminated by posting pics of my meter and disconnect, so all of this is has been a completely moot point since yesterday morning.  Why would I post pics if I was claiming to be playing lineman and shimmying up a pole?  I wouldn't.  And why would I ever want to play linemen if I can just pull the disconnect?  The very notion is absolutely ridiculous and the only reason you keep bringing this up, is because you feel like it is the very last straw you have to grasp.  No matter how short this straw is, you have an absolute death clutch on it and refuse to give it up.  Well, that and posting memes and ridiculous pics of a generator setup that has absolutely nothing to do with me.  It doesn't matter if there is a nuclear powerplant on the top of my pole.  It is clearly disconnected from my home.  You know this, but still haven't admitted it.  

Now, you were clearly and undisputed called out when I posted a pic of your response to another guy with the same setup as me.  But, but, but...that was just a misunderstanding, right?  Funny how that works with you.

Sorry to be the one to break it to you my friend, but you have some deep self-reflecting to do.  I was out of this conversation until you jumped back in with your @MrGoodkats a few hours ago.  Funniest thing is, you were attacking my responses to completely different forum member.  If that isn't the very definition of a bottom feeder troll, I don't know what is.

Now, you have dodged both my questions yet again, and at this point, I can only assume you will continue to do so...definition of insanity and all that.  Let me answer them for you since you clearly don't have the balls to do it yourself which would effectively end this conversation.  

1. If I pull the disconnect from (BE-FUCKING-LOW) my meter, how will the evil linemen-seeking electrons emanating from my generator jump across the very clear, large, and obvious air gap in said disconnect and kill all the poor unsuspecting linemen?

Answer:  It clearly, absolutely, and unquestionably disconnects my home from the electrical grid.  There is absolutely no realistic scenario in which my evil linemen seeking electrons can kill defenseless linemen.  Again, I could padlock the fuse carrier to the generator if need be and padlock the panel (BE-FUCKING-LOW) the meter closed.  

Before you or Norman Newguy jump in with "but muh steps"....how many steps does it take to drive your vehicle to work in the morning?  Amazing you're still alive right?  Today, it was chilly so I had to do something about it.  Instead of turning on the furnace, I decided to light a fire in my fireplace.  Good thing I remembered to put the wood in the fireplace before lighting it up  That was a close call.  But that's obvious right?  So is pulling the disconnect from (BE-FUCKING-LOW) my meter, especially if I padlock it to my generator.

2. You have said it is acceptable to work in a hot electrical panel, which is indeed commonly done. Now, how many professionals have been killed or injured working in a hot panel vs professionals killed or injured by homeowner generators?

Answer:  You did say this is acceptable.  While neither of us could likely pull exact statistics, you and I both know a lot more people have been hit in an electrical panel than by a homeowner generator.  Every single thing we do everyday inherently carries some amount of risk.  The only thing that is debatable is what that acceptable level is.  This proves that you are inconsistent with what you consider safe and unsafe, and chose to alter your argument to fit the situation.  I must also point out again, you already deemed another guy doing the same thing as me safe.  This is grossly inconsistent.  Here's a little nugget of advice for you:  Be careful with this type of behavior, not so much in this board, but in life in general.  Getting caught doing this rapidly destroys any credibility you may have worked very hard to earn.

Now, it appears that we are done here.  Like I said, every single thing we do carries some inherit risk.  The only thing that is debatable is the amount of risk one considers acceptable.  I know what I am doing is reasonably safe. I am not disputing that a transfer switch or interlock is also reasonably safe.  You clearly let your ego get in the way to the point where you can't even admit the blatantly obvious.  What all that means is that this conversation will get nowhere and accomplish nothing but wasting more time.  The only thing of value I've learned from this thread is the name of the woman in your avatar.  I'm out.

@MrGoodkat

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REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I stopped reading at "No, ...".

Yeah, I might have gotten into it a little too much.  In fact, in there I talk about lighting a fire in my fireplace.  I may have went to take a piss after submitting the post and noticed cold air was blowing from my bathroom floor vent.  I have the thermostat set to "cool".  Fireplace got the house up to 72F so the A/C kicked on and had been blowing for over an hour fighting with the fireplace.  I didn't hear it over my typing, fireplace, kids, and TV.  

Your next task is to replace that fuse on the pole with a real disconnect and OCPD.  Fuses still have their place, but not in resi services.

Yeah, I also need to wire and run power to my big pole shed I built nearly 3 years ago.  That particular building is just cold storage.  I thought I would do it the following spring after it was built, but I haven't really run into a situation where I needed power there yet, so it has slipped down the priority list.

As far as I know, they all have backup generators powered by their own natural gas, that's why natural gas has been so reliable.

FWIW, I tell my customers that it can't hurt to have a portable generator connection on their house even with the full auto standby system, just in case it malfunctions.  It's also nice to shutdown the big generator at night and run a small inverter generator for the fridge and a few TVs and lights.

"2. You have said it is acceptable to work in a hot electrical panel, which is indeed commonly done. Now, how many professionals have been killed or injured working in a hot panel vs professionals killed or injured by homeowner generators?"


I've done it/do it many times...


This said, some years ago I had a tenant that manufactured connector contacts, part of a large German corporation many would recognize.


One day, one of their folks was working inside a 240vac 400 amp panel and dropped a screwdriver.

There was a fireball, he was hospitalized and I have no idea what the outcome was.


I DO KNOW, someone discharged a large dry power fire extinguisher into the panel and contaminated their entire plant with corrosive residue.

All the ducts had to be cleaned throughout and the multiple rooftop AC/gas furnace units I maintained.


They had exotic high speed stamping presses for forming partially gold plated metal strips into reels of contacts to be inserted into connector blocks at a different facility.

The cost of cleanup must have approached $100k.


They were my first tenant in the building I built, another friend hooked us up and they signed a lease even before the bldg. was finished.  I could have retired off the income stream from just them for the many years they occupied the space, and was sad when they built their own building and moved.

Top notch tenant!

I now have the same, a 75531i, to replace the caveman generator that guzzles gas and is still too small to kick over the central A/C lol.

I'm going with the pigtail/dogbone of the TT30-L1430 adapter as the flexibility will take the physical pressures off the generator receptacle.

$45 pigtail LINK-Two Hots Bridged

.

I like that danpass.

It's not the first time that ABC dry chem may have been worse than the fire. I make that point in all the fire extinguisher threads, but all the fire extinguisher companies (who are even more insufferable than some of the folks in this thread) just cannot stop from pushing ABC dry chem as the universal solution to everything.

Screw Bill Clinton and the crony fakeenviro profiteers who banned Halon.

I bought a bunch of 5, 10 and 20 pound Halons off ebay in the 90's. B. Clinton paid for them...  

Oh, in Sillycone valley there was a surplus store lady, Lila, yep, my SO remembers, -south San Jose in the 90's- who had 2 big red tanks  of Halon 1301 she got from one of the cleanout deals all the surplus folks made with the companies, I bought them and may still have them. I think they're 100# per tank...

Haven't figured out how to open the specially actuated valve.

Yep - this is what I ended up going with:

$51 - Inlet box 30 amp - http://a.co/dL7xPtE
$51 - Interlock for SquareD QO panel - http://a.co/dC0yn0g
$38 - Wire for breaker to inlet box - http://a.co/jjbFYoD
$22 - 30 amp Breaker for backfeed - http://a.co/aTzE9SK

$40 - 50 foot RV extension cord - http://a.co/8eRehRj
$45 - RV to L-1430R bridged adapter - http://a.co/0awn1BK
-------------------------------------
$247

I chose the RV extension cord because this will be far more useful to me than any other type extension cord.  And $40 for a 50 foot cord with 100% copper and great reviews is CHEAP.

The pump stations for natural gas. No power no gas.

That's why they use generators powered off of the natural gas LOL.

No backup generator!
We were without gas for several days a few years ago which is how I found out.
A propane generator is the best way to go here.

Sorry, they converted them. Its been a few years since we had a power failure so I don't know if they added backup generators but as far as the last outage no gas.

It was a huge cascading problem because there was no NG for the power plant that provided our power which was the cause of our local outage.

Buck, you may be right, but that just sounds odd.  Like someone said in another thread, NG systems are mostly gravity fed and require very little power, which is why they are so reliable.  The fact that they can add a generator and power themselves make it foolish not to do so, IMO.

It was stupid but apparently electric was cheaper and more efficient.
The blizzard of 2011 caused rolling blackouts in Texas that in turn shut off the NG compressors that feed the pipelines to NM.
It was a lesson on prepping that we can only rely on ourselves if SHTF.

There were more than one report that talked about this in the SF a few years ago. They mentioned that the O'Bummer EPA was coming down hard on NG to replace any pump stations that needed replacing with electric ones. Sorry I don't have specifics. You might want to ask in the SF. I believe there was at least one person that was in the NG pipeline business there.

How do you gravity feed liquidified gas up one hill and down the next???




Maybe in the Southern Hemisphere where you can siphon up from a creek...

I remember it-

It was an Obama EPA thing to weaken our country's infrastructure...

In the false guise of protecting the environment...

Like countless other things the Leftists' do to destroy the Country and eventually STEAL IT!

Here's how I did mine:

Removed the 30 amp 220 dryer outlet. I don't need it, as my dryer is gas.  Installed J-box over it and ran conduit out to my garage.
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Ran the conduit into the back of the generator inlet box.  Wired from the dryer outlet location using #10 awg.  Also, only wired one of the hot legs, powering only half of my panel, which is fine, as I got lucky and most things that I want to power ended up on the correct half.
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Then went to HD and bought 14 ft or so of #10 awg SOOW and the correct L5-30 male/female ends.  I run the EU3000is just inside the threshold of the garage with a large construction fan behind it to push exhaust away from the house.  I use CO detectors in multiple places in the house as well.

I use a manual sliding interlock at the breaker panel, to keep the main off while using the now repurposed 30 amp dryer breaker.  I feel like my setup is pretty safe as the generator is only rated for 25 amps max (23.3 amps continuous) and I am only using it for the refrigerator, deep freeze, lights, fans, etc.  I will probably buy one of those small portable AC units on wheels to keep the master bedroom cool, though.

ss2nv, your setup isn't "pretty safe", it's plain old safe.  It's the way you are supposed to do it.

The only change I would have made is to install a 120/240v inlet.  Right now you have a 120v generator but installing the 4 prong inlet would work both with your current setup and any new generator you buy or borrow.  Either way it's fine, though.

Also, you can install a jumper to get the other half of your house working with the generator.  It's easy to do if you're interested.