[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Someone school me on backfeeding or pig tailing a generator back into the house. (Page 11 of 13)
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Can you get any more pathetic? You brought up guns - and putting fingers on triggers and pointing them at people - in a discussion about safely operating generators. You employed a logical fallacy. I pointed out your fallacy and mentioned that the firearm equivalent to an interlock switch is a trigger lock. Don't blame me for pointing out your poor argument. Like I said, if you had just stuck to "This is a safe and easy way to use a generator" you hit a home run and you are batting 1.000. But then you went to guns, struck out, and cut the average in half. |
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I don't even think a man of Mike's talents can help a guy like you. Quoted:
I don't even think a man of Mike's talents can help a guy like you. You brought up guns - and putting fingers on triggers and pointing them at people - in a discussion about safely operating generators. You employed a logical fallacy. I pointed out your fallacy and mentioned that the firearm equivalent to an interlock switch is a trigger lock. Don't blame me for pointing out your poor argument. But then you went to guns, struck out, and cut the average in half. We treat all guns as if they are loaded, even when we know they are not, in order to stop a future mistake. The same reason why you use proper transfer equipment and you don't use a suicide cord- to stop that future mistake. I couldn't ask for a better analogy. |
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I am a lineman and could give a shit less if you pigtail as long as you disconnect from the service. I am going to test and ground regardless.
If you are backfeeding a transformer and somehow it hasn't let the smoke of your genny yet it will when I ground your tap. The scariest stuff I think is underground risers. Underground power feeding an overhead line.. That overhead line falls to the ground blowing the fuse between it and the underground feeding it. Guess what that underground line that ran up that pole on the ground can still be hot if it hasn't actually touched ground potential. Once again I will test and ground it, but what scares me is people walking by a 7,200 volt terminator just off the ground. |
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I am a lineman and could give a shit less if you pigtail as long as you disconnect from the service. I am going to test and ground regardless. If you are backfeeding a transformer and somehow it hasn't let the smoke of your genny yet it will when I ground your tap. The scariest stuff I think is underground risers. Underground power feeding an overhead line.. That overhead line falls to the ground blowing the fuse between it and the underground feeding it. Guess what that underground line that ran up that pole on the ground can still be hot if it hasn't actually touched ground potential. Once again I will test and ground it, but what scares me is people walking by a 7,200 volt terminator just off the ground. 
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I'm sure you love when men use their talents on you, but in this case it is pretty pathetic for you need to "call in backup". If you can't support your side of the argument, maybe that's a hint that you should just back away and rethink your position. You just said the above and called someone else's statement pathetic? You're a hoot. Or, perhaps you don't know who Mike Rowe is and the joke just flew over your head. I figured the vast majority of arfcommers know the name, Mike Rowe. No, I did not. I gave a very good analogy about how we mitigate risk in one instance yet those same people play dangerously in another instance. Know that question I keep asking you? Do you put trigger locks on all your guns to mitigate risk? Now if you didn't employ a logical fallacy and talk about putting fingers on triggers and pointing guns at people you wouldn't be faced with a question that shows your argument (re guns, not interlocks on electric panels) to be utterly bankrupt. Again, there was no fallacy. And a trigger lock has nothing to do with this discussion. That is just something you pulled out of thin air. Ah, no. When you presented a logical fallacy re: guns, you brought trigger locks into play. There you go again, blaming me for your errors. My argument is excellent. And like I said, it is supported by everyone who matters. Every single person. From instructors to inspectors. Code officials to engineers. Everyone agrees with me but some podunk trailer park boys. As I have stated multiple times, your advice on safely powering a house with a genny is spot on. That isn't the criticism I am leveling. I am trying, with little success, to try and get you to stop undermining your own advice with nonsense. The gun analogy works perfectly here, as I described. We treat all guns as if they are loaded, even when we know they are not, in order to stop a future mistake. The same reason why you use proper transfer equipment and you don't use a suicide cord- to stop that future mistake. Yup, gun owners should treat guns as loaded, whether they are or not. They need to be mindful at all times of exactly what they are doing, and they should know exactly how the firearm operates. Then they can put their finger on the trigger in the right circumstances and pull the trigger. Your problem is, that pretty much describes how a person might backfeed their panel without the equivalent of an interlock kit. And that is why you should not employ a logical fallacy, especially when you add putting your finger on the trigger and pointing the gun at someone. If you are going to use your argument, to be consistent you have to call for the use of trigger locks. This poor dead horse is being beaten so badly he is going to come back to life and implore me to stop it. I couldn't ask for a better analogy. Each time you post your batting average suffers. First of all, no one is putting a finger on a trigger AND pointing a gun at anyone when they backfeed in the manner you properly describe as less safe than the method you advocate. The genny user could have a negligent discharge. But it isn't pointed at anyone. And unlike a negligent discharge with a gun, the voltage can't just go in any direction. It goes exactly where the wires take the voltage. And therefore, unlike a firearm negligent discharge, the lineman knows exactly where that negligent discharge is going to be if there is one, and can protect himself from it. You advocate the interlock for generator usage, and that is good advice. Whether your ego allows you to understand it or not, the firearm equivalent is a trigger lock. Now before you strike out again and ask me if I am advocating trigger locks for all guns, I am not. But then I am not the one making a logical fallacy. You are. Nor have I ever said your advice regarding the interlock switches is faulty in any way. If find no fault in it. |
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Why, thank you!!  Quoted:
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I hope you ladies arent swinging your best purses. Use an old one that you dont care about getting dirty!!  
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A furnace is normally wired all the way back to the panel. You can change that such that it plugs into an outlet. This gives you the opportunity to bring it up on a portable gen and extension cord. http://i43.tinypic.com/i54pie.jpg You got me with that. I didn't know those existed. It's a very tidy solution. It does the exact same thing, but keeps a local breaker on the load AND offers clear instructions on what to do. It says, FURNACE and GEN and the metal prongs are telling you to STICK THE CORD HERE. What I like most of all is the deep recessed shroud around the prongs. Even little fingers can't touch the bare conductors during connection/disconnection. Requires zero process knowledge and makes common error impossible. Awesome. |
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Quoted: Anyone who says that they could connect a generator to their house safely with a suicide cord is rationalizing in the same way as saying they can point a gun at someone safely because they are not going to pull the trigger. Yes, those things could be done without injury. But a slight mistake can lead to a tragedy. That's why it's not smart to do either. For the fifth time I will point out that this forum is a place where people will scream, rant, and rave if someone merely posts a picture with their finger on the trigger of a firearm. Safety is just so important to some people in one way, yet they promote dealing with electricity extremely dangerously. |
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@ar-jedi You got me with that. I didn't know those existed. It's a very tidy solution. It does the exact same thing, but keeps a local breaker on the load AND offers clear instructions on what to do. It says, FURNACE and GEN and the metal prongs are telling you to STICK THE CORD HERE. What I like most of all is the deep recessed shroud around the prongs. Even little fingers can't touch the bare conductors during connection/disconnection. Requires zero process knowledge and makes common error impossible. Awesome. A lot of my customers are women who know nothing about this and they still are able to follow the three simple steps to connect their generator and power their house. I make up a personalized instruction sheet for each customer, but none of them ever use it from what I have been told. |
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I make up a personalized instruction sheet for each customer, but none of them ever use it from what I have been told. this http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/671071__ARCHIVED_THREAD____soliciting_feedback_on_emergency_generator_usage_how_to_document_written_for_layperson___.html leads to http://losdos.dyndns.org/public/misc/generator-howto-rev-B.pdf here is the source document in case someone wants to make their own version http://losdos.dyndns.org/public/misc/generator-howto-rev-B.doc ar-jedi |
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When someone says "It's ok to backfeed your panel, just shut off the main first" it is no different then saying "It's ok to point a gun at someone and pul the trigger, just check the chamber first". Check and mate. Check, but not mate. It IS a good analogy to communicate the idea that there is no good reason to take such a risk. Especially if one is planning in advance. "Why would you make a plan that involved taking such a stupid risk?" There will never be a compelling reason to point a firearm at a loved one and drop the hammer, but there are many compelling reasons to back feed a panel without idiot-proof gear that was installed, tested, and inspected. First and most obvious is cost. Second can be urgency. You have an elderly person or child that is dependent on a medical device. You have people and cattle that need water and need to bring up the well. Point number one is that with backfeeding you can answer the question, "why the hell would you ever do that?," but with dry firing at a loved one there is never any defense of doing it. Second, and far more important, is the penalty for an error. If you point a gun at a loved one, drop the hammer, and it happens to be loaded, you would or kill them. Not at all the case with back feeding a panel. If the utility power is down and you backfeed a panel incorrectly MOST OF THE TIME there will be no consequence. Leave mains closed + connect gen = gen overload. (Gen bogs down. Gen folds back voltage. Back feed breaker clears. ETC. Something happens to prevent the hazard from existing.) In the HIGHLY unlikely case that there is not enough load on the utility lines to overload the gen or clear the 30A/50A back feed breaker then a hazard is presented, but no one incurs injury until the hazard is made contact with. Usually there is no one making physical contact with the line during restoration, and when they do, there is a procedure for detecting and avoiding making contact with the hazard. This is their job. It's what they do. They approach this hazard all day, every day. I'm not saying that it's a good idea to present electrical workers with surprise hazards. I'm illustrating why the back feed example differs from the shoot-your-kids example. MANY other things have to go wrong for injury to occur, and all of them are unlikely. If by some odd occurrence you manage to be connected to the mains with the generator up and the utility is restored, it could cause explosions, fires, or destroy the residential wiring. That too is unlikely. Chances are that the main breaker, back feed breaker, or output breaker on the gen will clear before those things occur. The gen will probably be toasted by the time this happens. There will probably be scorch marks at the ends of the gen cable too. If you leave a 240V suicide cable laying around, it's begging to create an injury. If you handle it wrong during the connection, you are risking injury ..... but most of the time nothing happens, because the utility restoration event doesn't occur at the same time as the unsafe work practice. Do you get it? In your example of dry firing at a kid, a failure always leads to instantaneous wound/death of a loved one. In the back feed scenario, even a massive error USUALLY leads to minimal or zero repercussion. This is EXACTLY the error in thinking that has me arguing in these threads and referring to people as "hysterical" for parroting the "murder" BS. The folks asking about this at arfcom own a home, have or are interested in having a generator, have the disposable income to support a computer and internet connection, and are smart enough to ask for help and advice when they're contemplating something where they're in over their heads. It's okay to tell these people the truth. It's okay to describe the minimum equipment required to accomplish the goal, and explain the hazards, and explain the virtues of the very-affordable equipment to eliminate those hazards. A more realistic example would be to compare it to operating the unguarded machining equipment, stamping presses, or agricultural equipment of old. All of it was bare minimum to accomplish the task. No safety margin was built in. People did it all the time and usually everything was fine. Errors were usually terrible. Performing a work task on an electrical setup is more insidious, because the hazard is not obvious like a tractor PTO shaft, but the analogy is a MUCH more realistic comparison. |
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along these lines... this http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/671071__ARCHIVED_THREAD____soliciting_feedback_on_emergency_generator_usage_how_to_document_written_for_layperson___.html leads to http://losdos.dyndns.org/public/misc/generator-howto-rev-B.pdf here is the source document in case someone wants to make their own version http://losdos.dyndns.org/public/misc/generator-howto-rev-B.doc ar-jedi  Very nice work!
I tell my customers about the 3 simple steps: 1) Connect the generator to the inlet with the cord. 2) Start the generator. 3) Go inside and operate the interlock. That's pretty much it. In the instruction sheet I will go into more details, often times including a picture of their actual interlock. I will add more steps such as saying to shut the main breaker, slide the interlock, then turn on the generator breaker. Or I will explain to make sure that the breakers on the generator are reset. But in the end, the 3 basic steps get most of them going. |
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I also have an outdoor main breaker. My breaker box in my garage does not have a main breaker in it.
I was wondering if this type of main breaker box outdoors lends it self to a interlock kit and generator input. Thanks, Attached File |
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Wow 11 pages and still purse swinging.
Suicide cords are not called " it's safe if you know what your doing" cords. NFPA70E/ LOTO are not just because some people know better. Electricity is a silent, deadly and unforgiving killer that rarely grants second chances. So why try to justify potentially deadly practices when the variables of injury or death can be reduced by using the proper equipment? |
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No need to install anything between the meter and the panel. Just install an interlock on your panel. Take a picture of your panel and post it here and I will find you an interlock that will work. An 8K generator will be fine on a 30A connection. So you would run a 10-3 romex from your main panel to an inlet you mount outside. Then connect the generator with a cord to the inlet. Fast and simple. Like I tell my customers, there are 3 steps to using the connection: 1) Plug the generator into the inlet. 2) Start the generator. 3) Go inside and operate the interlock. Done, now your entire house in energized by the generator. Quoted:
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OK sparky's, is there a larger version of this available that would go between the meter and breaker panel, either with a higher ampacity twist lock for say a 8K generator, or hardwired to a standby gen? I don't want everything separated on another panel, and the intention is to buy a gen to run the whole house. An 8K generator will be fine on a 30A connection. So you would run a 10-3 romex from your main panel to an inlet you mount outside. Then connect the generator with a cord to the inlet. Fast and simple. Like I tell my customers, there are 3 steps to using the connection: 1) Plug the generator into the inlet. 2) Start the generator. 3) Go inside and operate the interlock. Done, now your entire house in energized by the generator. |
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TLDR.
This gets flogged in survival forum frequently. Post there to avoid GD nonsense. There are many levels of rigging up a temp service, from informed & safe to hazardous....just like doing the initial home wiring installation. If you have a knowledge on the subject, you can backfeed safely. If this is the first exposure to the concepts, gain more knowledge first. -Maintain the appropriate value of CB protection -use the appropriate gauge wire -turn off main Those are the concepts. If you want specifics, post in SF. |
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I also have an outdoor main breaker. My breaker box in my garage does not have a main breaker in it. I was wondering if this type of main breaker box outdoors lends it self to a interlock kit and generator input. Thanks, https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/104523/IMG_0838-308821.JPG If you really want the whole house you can change out that outside disconnect for a new one. |
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I would suggest stepping the large loads on. Hard starting an entire house worth of fans, compressors, and pumps is tough for a portable genset. If I had to make it really simple for unskilled folks, "open all the ganged breakers and close them one at a time after the gen is on." |
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TLDR. This gets flogged in survival forum frequently. Post there to avoid GD nonsense. There are many levels of rigging up a temp service, from informed & safe to hazardous....just like doing the initial home wiring installation. If you have a knowledge on the subject, you can backfeed safely. If this is the first exposure to the concepts, gain more knowledge first. -Maintain the appropriate value of CB protection -use the appropriate gauge wire -turn off main Those are the concepts. If you want specifics, post in SF. If someone is extremely knowledgeable of firearms, does that mean that he can forgo safety practices? All of the firearm knowledge in the world won't prevent a basic mistake being made, and that's why he doesn't put himself into the position where a mistake could take a life. |
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Knowledge has nothing to do with it. I have a lot of knowledge of the subject, but I still know that I might make a mistake in the heat of the moment of a crisis. That's why I only use proper transfer equipment in my own home. If someone is extremely knowledgeable of firearms, does that mean that he can forgo safety practices? All of the firearm knowledge in the world won't prevent a basic mistake being made, and that's why he doesn't put himself into the position where a mistake could take a life. 
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Knowledge has nothing to do with it. I have a lot of knowledge of the subject, but I still know that I might make a mistake in the heat of the moment of a crisis. That's why I only use proper transfer equipment in my own home. If someone is extremely knowlehdgeable of firearms, does that mean that he can forgo safety practices? All of the firearm knowledge in the world won't prevent a basic mistake being made, and that's why he doesn't put himself into the position where a mistake could take a life. Quoted:
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TLDR. This gets flogged in survival forum frequently. Post there to avoid GD nonsense. There are many levels of rigging up a temp service, from informed & safe to hazardous....just like doing the initial home wiring installation. If you have a knowledge on the subject, you can backfeed safely. If this is the first exposure to the concepts, gain more knowledge first. -Maintain the appropriate value of CB protection -use the appropriate gauge wire -turn off main Those are the concepts. If you want specifics, post in SF. If someone is extremely knowlehdgeable of firearms, does that mean that he can forgo safety practices? All of the firearm knowledge in the world won't prevent a basic mistake being made, and that's why he doesn't put himself into the position where a mistake could take a life.
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Life is full of risk everyday. As individuals we manage those risk the best we can. How well we manage those risk determines our ability to survive. You sound like the type of person who should definitely stay between the lines. It's for your own good. |
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I am a lineman and could give a shit less if you pigtail as long as you disconnect from the service. I am going to test and ground regardless. If you are backfeeding a transformer and somehow it hasn't let the smoke of your genny yet it will when I ground your tap. The scariest stuff I think is underground risers. Underground power feeding an overhead line.. That overhead line falls to the ground blowing the fuse between it and the underground feeding it. Guess what that underground line that ran up that pole on the ground can still be hot if it hasn't actually touched ground potential. Once again I will test and ground it, but what scares me is people walking by a 7,200 volt terminator just off the ground. /thread |
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@romanack Check, but not mate. It IS a good analogy to communicate the idea that there is no good reason to take such a risk. Especially if one is planning in advance. "Why would you make a plan that involved taking such a stupid risk?" There will never be a compelling reason to point a firearm at a loved one and drop the hammer, but there are many compelling reasons to back feed a panel without idiot-proof gear that was installed, tested, and inspected. First and most obvious is cost. Second can be urgency. You have an elderly person or child that is dependent on a medical device. You have people and cattle that need water and need to bring up the well. Point number one is that with backfeeding you can answer the question, "why the hell would you ever do that?," but with dry firing at a loved one there is never any defense of doing it. Second, and far more important, is the penalty for an error. If you point a gun at a loved one, drop the hammer, and it happens to be loaded, you would or kill them. Not at all the case with back feeding a panel. If the utility power is down and you backfeed a panel incorrectly MOST OF THE TIME there will be no consequence. Leave mains closed + connect gen = gen overload. (Gen bogs down. Gen folds back voltage. Back feed breaker clears. ETC. Something happens to prevent the hazard from existing.) In the HIGHLY unlikely case that there is not enough load on the utility lines to overload the gen or clear the 30A/50A back feed breaker then a hazard is presented, but no one incurs injury until the hazard is made contact with. Usually there is no one making physical contact with the line during restoration, and when they do, there is a procedure for detecting and avoiding making contact with the hazard. This is their job. It's what they do. They approach this hazard all day, every day. I'm not saying that it's a good idea to present electrical workers with surprise hazards. I'm illustrating why the back feed example differs from the shoot-your-kids example. MANY other things have to go wrong for injury to occur, and all of them are unlikely. If by some odd occurrence you manage to be connected to the mains with the generator up and the utility is restored, it could cause explosions, fires, or destroy the residential wiring. That too is unlikely. Chances are that the main breaker, back feed breaker, or output breaker on the gen will clear before those things occur. The gen will probably be toasted by the time this happens. There will probably be scorch marks at the ends of the gen cable too. If you leave a 240V suicide cable laying around, it's begging to create an injury. If you handle it wrong during the connection, you are risking injury ..... but most of the time nothing happens, because the utility restoration event doesn't occur at the same time as the unsafe work practice. Do you get it? In your example of dry firing at a kid, a failure always leads to instantaneous wound/death of a loved one. In the back feed scenario, even a massive error USUALLY leads to minimal or zero repercussion. This is EXACTLY the error in thinking that has me arguing in these threads and referring to people as "hysterical" for parroting the "murder" BS. The folks asking about this at arfcom own a home, have or are interested in having a generator, have the disposable income to support a computer and internet connection, and are smart enough to ask for help and advice when they're contemplating something where they're in over their heads. It's okay to tell these people the truth. It's okay to describe the minimum equipment required to accomplish the goal, and explain the hazards, and explain the virtues of the very-affordable equipment to eliminate those hazards. A more realistic example would be to compare it to operating the unguarded machining equipment, stamping presses, or agricultural equipment of old. All of it was bare minimum to accomplish the task. No safety margin was built in. People did it all the time and usually everything was fine. Errors were usually terrible. Performing a work task on an electrical setup is more insidious, because the hazard is not obvious like a tractor PTO shaft, but the analogy is a MUCH more realistic comparison. |
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No, he doesn't get it regardless of how many times this has been pointed out to him. This troll is an exceptionally hungry one. |
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Wow, that's WAY more indepth than anything I have ever done https://www.ar15.com/forums/outdoors/Christmas_Generator_Present_Fail/17-670956/? |
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Wow 11 pages and still purse swinging. Suicide cords are not called " it's safe if you know what your doing" cords. NFPA70E/ LOTO are not just because some people know better. Electricity is a silent, deadly and unforgiving killer that rarely grants second chances. So why try to justify potentially deadly practices when the variables of injury or death can be reduced by using the proper equipment? |
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Let's just be clear here, it's been pointed out by myself and others that there is nothing that you could explain to me. It's I who is here to educate you. What's next in your repertoire? Your dad can beat up our dads? I know you are but what am I? That's the level you've now single-handedly brought a once meaningful discussion down to. I know you're new here so take this advice or you won't last long: Take a step back. Look at what you and this thread have now become. Close your laptop. Take a cold shower. Come to the realization that you can not and will not change the opinions of others, and do something more meaningful with the rest of your day like go outside and smell a flower or something. |
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Bwahahaha! What's next in your repertoire? Your dad can beat up our dads? I know you are but what am I? That's the level you've now single-handedly brought a once meaningful discussion down to. I know you're new here so take this advice or you won't last long: Take a step back. Look at what you and this thread have now become. Close your laptop. Take a cold shower. Come to the realization that you can not and will not change the opinions of others, and do something more meaningful with the rest of your day like go outside and smell a flower or something. I'd like to thank you for your participation in this thread, you really contributed a lot. In case you don't realize it, I was being sarcastic. Now I'm going to stop playing with children like you and continue helping people who have questions. I've already received countless PMs thanking me and asking more questions. I'm not trying to brag, I'm simply trying to point out how stupid your post is and why you should step back and stop ruining this thread. |
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Given the cost of electricians, and the egos of men, this will never be resolved.
At a minimum, turn off the main breaker and duct tape it in the off position. Better, put a metal clip blocking it from being turned on until a tool is used to remove the clip. Betterer, use the mechanical interlock method to block the main while a generator feed breaker is freed for use. This does not use back feeding on a dryer circuit. You have to install an interconnect and generator feed plug. Best, a transfer switch. Period. Oh, and you natural gas guys, you know it's pumped by electric pumps, right? 
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Given the cost of electricians, and the egos of men, this will never be resolved. At a minimum, turn off the main breaker and duct tape it in the off position. Better, put a metal clip blocking it from being turned on until a tool is used to remove the clip. Betterer, use the mechanical interlock method to block the main while a generator feed breaker is freed for use. This does not use back feeding on a dryer circuit. You have to install an interconnect and generator feed plug. Best, a transfer switch. Period. Oh, and you natural gas guys, you know it's pumped by electric pumps, right? I'd also like to point out that natural gas plants have generators that run off of natural gas. I have not lost natural gas service and electricity at the same time in 40 years. The only time I ever lost natural gas is when someone hit a pipe while digging. |
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I can't believe the purse swinging is still going on. I'm going to backfeed a generator directly into one of my regular wall outlets and pipe my exhaust out my window just to spite everyone now. *Disclaimer: I am fucking kidding.
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Life is full of risk everyday. As individuals we manage those risk the best we can. How well we manage those risk determines our ability to survive. You sound like the type of person who should definitely stay between the lines. It's for your own good.
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@MrGoodkat
There you are again, the electrical wizard LOL. And this: Quoted:
Boom. /thread Quoted:
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I am a lineman and could give a shit less if you pigtail as long as you disconnect from the service. I am going to test and ground regardless. If you are backfeeding a transformer and somehow it hasn't let the smoke of your genny yet it will when I ground your tap. The scariest stuff I think is underground risers. Underground power feeding an overhead line.. That overhead line falls to the ground blowing the fuse between it and the underground feeding it. Guess what that underground line that ran up that pole on the ground can still be hot if it hasn't actually touched ground potential. Once again I will test and ground it, but what scares me is people walking by a 7,200 volt terminator just off the ground. /thread Quoted:
Your wrong your obviously not a lineman so you don't know all the circumstances or how many different ways a transformer can get backfed. Transformers work both ways if a can can step down 7200 to 120/240 it can also step up 120/240 to 7200. Have you ever opened the cutout feeding a conventional xformer feeding a single customer tested the secondary side dead for backfeed then started to work on the high side tap removing the hot line clamp and the customer (fucking idiot) turns his generator on and now your holding a live tap in your hand. I have not fun, there was lots of cursing and screaming before the guy on the ground went and pulled the meter. Im just one lineman on a gun board talking with you guys about this. twice in my career it' happened two different situations in rural areas so if you haven't been up a pole and had it happen to you then think what you want. But your wrong 
Don't try to pretend. I actually found a picture of your generator install. Attached File Yeah, that is not going to work either! But you are just as professional as the people that do this for a living. I am beginning to wonder why we try so hard from preventing you from earning a Darwin award? |
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No, he doesn't get it regardless of how many times this has been pointed out to him. This troll is an exceptionally hungry one. Does not know the difference between a main line fuse or a service disconnect, yet calls the electrician helping multiple GD's with free helpful electrical advise a troll. Uhhh.. Opposite day I guess?
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Bwahahaha! What's next in your repertoire? Your dad can beat up our dads? I know you are but what am I? That's the level you've now single-handedly brought a once meaningful discussion down to. I know you're new here so take this advice or you won't last long: Take a step back. Look at what you and this thread have now become. Close your laptop. Take a cold shower. Come to the realization that you can not and will not change the opinions of others, and do something more meaningful with the rest of your day like go outside and smell a flower or something. You were called out, failed to own it, and now are openly trolling someone that is helping others for free, in GD with good advice (unlike your make believe hack homeowner stuff LOL). Damn, like I said earlier, it is okay to be wrong, but when you act this pathetic it is just sad. I feel bad for you. |
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Dude- You were called out, failed to own it, and now are openly trolling someone that is helping others for free, in GD with good advice (unlike your make believe hack homeowner stuff LOL). Damn, like I said earlier, it is okay to be wrong, but when you act this pathetic it is just sad. I feel bad for you. You have continually evaded two questions I have asked. Now is the time for you to be a man and answer them. 1. If I pull the disconnect from (BE-FUCKING-LOW) my meter, how will the evil linemen-seeking electrons emanating from my generator jump across the very clear, large, and obvious air gap in said disconnect and kill all the poor unsuspecting linemen? 2. You have said it is acceptable to work in a hot electrical panel, which is indeed commonly done. Now, how many professionals have been killed or injured working in a hot panel vs professionals killed or injured by homeowner generators? |
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Holy shit. He returns. Wore out your last purse and bought another one did you? You have continually evaded two questions I have asked. Now is the time for you to be a man and answer them. Quoted:
Holy shit. He returns. Wore out your last purse and bought another one did you? You have continually evaded two questions I have asked. Now is the time for you to be a man and answer them. I will try once more: 1. If I pull the disconnect from (BE-FUCKING-LOW) my meter, how will the evil linemen-seeking electrons emanating from my generator jump across the very clear, large, and obvious air gap in said disconnect and kill all the poor unsuspecting linemen? I will give an example. If I empty my gun I could point it at your head and pul the trigger, you won't get hurt. But that is still a stupid thing to start doing due to the fact that I might make a mistake one day and not empty it first. There are also other safety issues at play, such as the suicide cord with exposed male prong with 240V across them. 2. You have said it is acceptable to work in a hot electrical panel, which is indeed commonly done. Now, how many professionals have been killed or injured working in a hot panel vs professionals killed or injured by homeowner generators? And this is a silly argument anyway. Just because more people are killed working in electrical panels, it doesn't mean that you should be able to do something dangerous with a generator. |
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Nope, not going to be easy unfortunately. If you wanted to be easy then the 10+ circuit transfer panel is going to be your best option. If you really want the whole house you can change out that outside disconnect for a new one. |
| A lot of people are talking about the generator backfeeding into the grid, but no one really brought up the issue of the grid feeding into the generator. If the proper procedure isn't followed and both breakers are on at the same time while the utility power comes back on (even for a slight blip) that will cause a catastrophic event with the generator. It will certainly damage the alternator, likely cause an arc blast, and possibly an explosion. Now I'm not saying it will be like a C4 blast. But it might be enough to rupture the gas tank and splash around flaming fuel. No matter what happens, it's not good. |
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Quoted:
Holy shit. He returns. Wore out your last purse and bought another one did you? You have continually evaded two questions I have asked. Now is the time for you to be a man and answer them. 1. If I pull the disconnect from (BE-FUCKING-LOW) my meter, how will the evil linemen-seeking electrons emanating from my generator jump across the very clear, large, and obvious air gap in said disconnect and kill all the poor unsuspecting linemen? 2. You have said it is acceptable to work in a hot electrical panel, which is indeed commonly done. Now, how many professionals have been killed or injured working in a hot panel vs professionals killed or injured by homeowner generators? But even a broken clock is right twice a day, so we will have to monitor you.... As far as #1, it is already answered. Use (or don't) your reading comprehension skills. #2 went along with the callout when you were making your statements that only a lineman or contractor would make, back when you were claiming to be a lineman that pulls his main line fuse above the meter. Then you were called out on these statements. Then we found out you were just pretending, because you were actually pulling your secondary fuses. That then became you knew the difference and just made a mistake... You refused to own it fully, but the bottom line is: hot panel work and pulling cutouts does not equal anything you should be doing, pretend or not. Again, you are now openly trolling someone that is helping others for free, in GD with good advice..., like I said earlier, it is okay to be wrong, but when you act this pathetic it is just sad. I feel bad for you. Let him help those that want to do it right. Go find another thread to dump your crap in. |