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Posted: 9/15/2017 9:54:55 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's your prediction? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's a Civilian Review Board report. It has no bearing on actual criminal court matters. But I think it gives some insight into possible future issues. It seems to be strong on the emotional side and very lacking in substance. It does not IMO give any credence to criminal actions and only their own perceived policy violations which again might be a stretch. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 12:24:23 PM EDT
[#2]
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No state criminal charges, maybe something on the Fed level but I doubt, possibly fired and then reinstated after the lawsuit. 
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Posted: 9/15/2017 12:39:29 PM EDT
[#3]
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No state criminal charges, maybe something on the Fed level but I doubt, possibly fired and then reinstated after the lawsuit. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 12:40:16 PM EDT
[#4]
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No state criminal charges, maybe something on the Fed level but I doubt, possibly fired and then reinstated after the lawsuit. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 12:41:41 PM EDT
[#5]
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I could be wrong. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 12:42:29 PM EDT
[#6]
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I could be wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No state criminal charges, maybe something on the Fed level but I doubt, possibly fired and then reinstated after the lawsuit. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 1:28:08 PM EDT
[#7]
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If this incident doesn't result in real discipline then there is a systemic problem that needs to be resolved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I could be wrong. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 1:37:09 PM EDT
[#8]
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If this incident doesn't result in real discipline then there is a systemic problem that needs to be resolved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I could be wrong. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 1:43:47 PM EDT
[#9]
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You should read the CRB report and see what you think. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 1:55:09 PM EDT
[#10]
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You should read the CRB report and see what you think. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I could be wrong. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 3:05:59 PM EDT
[#11]
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Sounds like Payne will have plenty of time off to work on growing out his skullet.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 4:25:48 PM EDT
[#12]
<Removed -40xb>
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Posted: 9/15/2017 5:15:10 PM EDT
[#13]
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<Removed -40xb> 
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Posted: 9/15/2017 5:23:57 PM EDT
[#14]
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Interesting they are saying Payne and LT were not sufficiently trained, nor updated on current law and so they are putting that back on the PD. And it is local SOP to obtain blood samples from everyone involved in a major accident. The CRB report basically boils down to they think Payne was rude and failed to file one report properly and the LT was not properly trained to know current rules on blood draws. It also flies in the face of the attempts of the hospital to meet with the force to clarify procedure to prevent future problems. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 5:28:56 PM EDT
[#15]
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That contradicts earlier claims of him being a specially trained chain of custody drug screen collector. It also flies in the face of the attempts of the hospital to meet with the force to clarify procedure to prevent future problems. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 5:35:41 PM EDT
[#16]
<Removed -40xb>
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Posted: 9/15/2017 5:40:59 PM EDT
[#17]
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<Removed -40xb> |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 5:49:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That contradicts earlier claims of him being a specially trained chain of custody drug screen collector. It also flies in the face of the attempts of the hospital to meet with the force to clarify procedure to prevent future problems. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting they are saying Payne and LT were not sufficiently trained, nor updated on current law and so they are putting that back on the PD. And it is local SOP to obtain blood samples from everyone involved in a major accident. The CRB report basically boils down to they think Payne was rude and failed to file one report properly and the LT was not properly trained to know current rules on blood draws. It also flies in the face of the attempts of the hospital to meet with the force to clarify procedure to prevent future problems. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 6:14:39 PM EDT
[#19]
<Removed -40xb>
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Posted: 9/15/2017 6:20:09 PM EDT
[#20]
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They either need pc or a warrant to obtain his blood, it doesn't matter what their sop is,they had neither. The excuse that they were doing it because of his cdl doesn't want either since that's between him and his employer, and is a federal requirement. So nothing they've said makes sense. He trampled on her rights it's that simple, he abused his authority. He should be fired and maybe charged federally. Even if he wasn't trained about the new policy requiring a warrant he knows he either needs a warrant or PC and he knows he has neither, he is a detective with what 20 years experience? But I'm sure Bama is right just like the five Alabama cops that beat an unconscious man, he will end up back on the job, because the union and other people that believe cops do no wrong will back him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Interesting they are saying Payne and LT were not sufficiently trained, nor updated on current law and so they are putting that back on the PD. And it is local SOP to obtain blood samples from everyone involved in a major accident. The CRB report basically boils down to they think Payne was rude and failed to file one report properly and the LT was not properly trained to know current rules on blood draws. It also flies in the face of the attempts of the hospital to meet with the force to clarify procedure to prevent future problems. Being an un-willing bystander (and following the rules of the road) in a felony car chase does not trigger "implied consent". This has been beat to death already... and nobody can show proof or policy otherwise. Linky to Utah state law, which is what we are talking about here... No "lack of knowledge" gets you out of jail. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Being a LEO, less so. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 8:07:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only thing I would temper this with is if Payne's excuse that there was implied consent was valid. Nothing I've read or heard about at this point indicates that the excuse of "implied consent" was valid. Being an un-willing bystander (and following the rules of the road) in a felony car chase does not trigger "implied consent". This has been beat to death already... and nobody can show proof or policy otherwise. Linky to Utah state law, which is what we are talking about here... No "lack of knowledge" gets you out of jail. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Being a LEO, less so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting they are saying Payne and LT were not sufficiently trained, nor updated on current law and so they are putting that back on the PD. And it is local SOP to obtain blood samples from everyone involved in a major accident. The CRB report basically boils down to they think Payne was rude and failed to file one report properly and the LT was not properly trained to know current rules on blood draws. It also flies in the face of the attempts of the hospital to meet with the force to clarify procedure to prevent future problems. Being an un-willing bystander (and following the rules of the road) in a felony car chase does not trigger "implied consent". This has been beat to death already... and nobody can show proof or policy otherwise. Linky to Utah state law, which is what we are talking about here... No "lack of knowledge" gets you out of jail. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Being a LEO, less so. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 8:24:18 PM EDT
[#22]
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<Removed -40xb> |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 1:40:44 PM EDT
[#23]
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I knew he looked familiar, finally placed it: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/112961/roy-munson-308297.JPG 
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Posted: 9/16/2017 2:49:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That contradicts earlier claims of him being a specially trained chain of custody drug screen collector. It also flies in the face of the attempts of the hospital to meet with the force to clarify procedure to prevent future problems. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting they are saying Payne and LT were not sufficiently trained, nor updated on current law and so they are putting that back on the PD. And it is local SOP to obtain blood samples from everyone involved in a major accident. The CRB report basically boils down to they think Payne was rude and failed to file one report properly and the LT was not properly trained to know current rules on blood draws. It also flies in the face of the attempts of the hospital to meet with the force to clarify procedure to prevent future problems. He is a trained blood collector. The CRB faults the LEA for not keeping their officers trained and up to date on current law and procedures. It also states that the LT found out on arrival that the hospital had already done a blood draw and that would suffice for their needs. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 4:17:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should read the CRB report. He is a trained blood collector. The CRB faults the LEA for not keeping their officers trained and up to date on current law and procedures. It also states that the LT found out on arrival that the hospital had already done a blood draw and that would suffice for their needs. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 4:24:20 PM EDT
[#26]
You guys ready?
Can you say <DRAMA>? It's like Christmas in this thread. 
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Posted: 9/16/2017 4:26:53 PM EDT
[#27]
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You guys ready? Can you say <DRAMA>? It's like Christmas in this thread. http://i.imgur.com/XqO6LsN.png http://i.imgur.com/gIdut2H.png http://i.imgur.com/iBAf41q.png |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 4:27:14 PM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 9/16/2017 4:28:00 PM EDT
[#29]
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Looking forward to him receiving his well earned raise and promotion 
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Posted: 9/16/2017 4:57:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain to me how arresting the nurse is not a crime. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You should read the CRB report. He is a trained blood collector. The CRB faults the LEA for not keeping their officers trained and up to date on current law and procedures. It also states that the LT found out on arrival that the hospital had already done a blood draw and that would suffice for their needs. But I believe if you review the CRB report they are saying the detective and the LT were operating in good faith. This is why I think the local DA is kicking it to the feds. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 7:08:03 PM EDT
[#31]
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I don't know the laws of UT. But I believe if you review the CRB report they are saying the detective and the LT were operating in good faith. This is why I think the local DA is kicking it to the feds. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 8:34:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Sexual harassment is automatic termination in most fields. Once again a shitheel was protected.
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Posted: 9/16/2017 8:54:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I knew he looked familiar, finally placed it: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/112961/roy-munson-308297.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like Payne will have plenty of time off to work on growing out his skullet. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/112961/roy-munson-308297.JPG CHRIS |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 9:12:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://i.imgur.com/CFVMr12.png Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Looking forward to him receiving his well earned raise and promotion |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 9:20:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can anyone use a good faith defense against assault, unlawful imprisonment and kidnapping charges? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't know the laws of UT. But I believe if you review the CRB report they are saying the detective and the LT were operating in good faith. This is why I think the local DA is kicking it to the feds. Did you ever read the report? |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 9:23:29 PM EDT
[#36]
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Not likely. But most cubicle people are not asked to do the things that LE does. Did you ever read the report? |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 9:31:58 PM EDT
[#37]
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Not likely. But most cubicle people are not asked to do the things that LE does. Did you ever read the report? But the reforms that policing needs are becoming clearer. Firstly is a requirement that officers know the law and a presumption that in all cases they do. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 9:35:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sexual harassment is automatic termination in most fields. Once again a shitheel was protected. Things that use to be considered "ball busting" is now harassment and if you do it with a person of the opposite sex it's armaggedon. Make fun of some guy who gets lot of poon and the problems it can cause with a fellow female cop in the room (with no comments directed to the female) use to be fun. Now off limits. Can't make fun of stupid shit another cop has done anymore. Shoot poorly on the range? Off limits to make fun of them. Make a comment about the last call you went on and momma having 5 different baby daddies, written up. So maybe he is a shitheel or just a cog in the wheel. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 9:37:44 PM EDT
[#39]
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Kudos brother. I appreciate the work that cops do 25/7. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not likely. But most cubicle people are not asked to do the things that LE does. Did you ever read the report? |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 9:51:05 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should read the CRB report and see what you think. No one in their right mind believes he was enforcing a law that hadn't been the law in ten years "in good faith." When a tree produces a lot of rotten apples you need to start looking at a problem with the tree. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 9:55:24 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aside from the fact that it's absurd that you could act unreasonably and in ignorance of the law yet be shielded from consequences, it's fairly clear that he acted out of anger rather than good faith. But the reforms that policing needs are becoming clearer. Firstly is a requirement that officers know the law and a presumption that in all cases they do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not likely. But most cubicle people are not asked to do the things that LE does. Did you ever read the report? But the reforms that policing needs are becoming clearer. Firstly is a requirement that officers know the law and a presumption that in all cases they do. I don't go along with the anger thing. It's generally a response to a conditioned stimulus. IMO, LEA's should be required to provide current law training in addition to the mandatory stuff. I figured it up one time and if the LEA did just the required annual recert training on EVERYTHING, baton, radar, FST, handcuffing, firearms, etc...it's right at three solid weeks of training per year. This is not even touching law updates or court decision updates. If you are bean counting it's cheaper to have a lawsuit every so often than budget for proper training. So if you add in state law changes, federal law changes and court decisions you are easily looking at 4 to 6 weeks of annual training. We are required to get 12 hours a year. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 9:59:02 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read it. He and the LT should get their parents cknof a single felony count and a day in jail. Hospital cop should be sent to retraining forfaikure to act. No one in their right mind believes he was enforcing a law that hadn't been the law in ten years "in good faith." When a tree produces a lot of rotten apples you need to start looking at a problem with the tree. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You should read the CRB report and see what you think. No one in their right mind believes he was enforcing a law that hadn't been the law in ten years "in good faith." When a tree produces a lot of rotten apples you need to start looking at a problem with the tree. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 10:06:52 PM EDT
[#43]
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But if you had read the Civilian Review Board report (full disclosure I generally oppose CRB's, I think the jury box is the ultimate CRB) you would have read the CRB says it is a lack of training that led to this deal. The detective was operating on his LEA SOP. I don't go along with the anger thing. It's generally a response to a conditioned stimulus. IMO, LEA's should be required to provide current law training in addition to the mandatory stuff. I figured it up one time and if the LEA did just the required annual recert training on EVERYTHING, baton, radar, FST, handcuffing, firearms, etc...it's right at three solid weeks of training per year. This is not even touching law updates or court decision updates. If you are bean counting it's cheaper to have a lawsuit every so often than budget for proper training. So if you add in state law changes, federal law changes and court decisions you are easily looking at 4 to 6 weeks of annual training. We are required to get 12 hours a year. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 10:09:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Civilian Review Board disagrees with you. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 10:13:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you typically give much weight to CRBs or are you flexible in your opinion of them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Civilian Review Board disagrees with you. 
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Posted: 9/16/2017 10:15:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you typically give much weight to CRBs or are you flexible in your opinion of them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Civilian Review Board disagrees with you. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 10:16:16 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ignorance of the law shouldn't be an excuse. The fact that he was trying to enforce a law that hasn't existed in his state for ten years and the nation for one is unacceptable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
But if you had read the Civilian Review Board report (full disclosure I generally oppose CRB's, I think the jury box is the ultimate CRB) you would have read the CRB says it is a lack of training that led to this deal. The detective was operating on his LEA SOP. I don't go along with the anger thing. It's generally a response to a conditioned stimulus. IMO, LEA's should be required to provide current law training in addition to the mandatory stuff. I figured it up one time and if the LEA did just the required annual recert training on EVERYTHING, baton, radar, FST, handcuffing, firearms, etc...it's right at three solid weeks of training per year. This is not even touching law updates or court decision updates. If you are bean counting it's cheaper to have a lawsuit every so often than budget for proper training. So if you add in state law changes, federal law changes and court decisions you are easily looking at 4 to 6 weeks of annual training. We are required to get 12 hours a year. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 10:20:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Answered above. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 10:22:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would like to know more. Things that use to be considered "ball busting" is now harassment and if you do it with a person of the opposite sex it's armaggedon. Make fun of some guy who gets lot of poon and the problems it can cause with a fellow female cop in the room (with no comments directed to the female) use to be fun. Now off limits. Can't make fun of stupid shit another cop has done anymore. Shoot poorly on the range? Off limits to make fun of them. Make a comment about the last call you went on and momma having 5 different baby daddies, written up. So maybe he is a shitheel or just a cog in the wheel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sexual harassment is automatic termination in most fields. Once again a shitheel was protected. Things that use to be considered "ball busting" is now harassment and if you do it with a person of the opposite sex it's armaggedon. Make fun of some guy who gets lot of poon and the problems it can cause with a fellow female cop in the room (with no comments directed to the female) use to be fun. Now off limits. Can't make fun of stupid shit another cop has done anymore. Shoot poorly on the range? Off limits to make fun of them. Make a comment about the last call you went on and momma having 5 different baby daddies, written up. So maybe he is a shitheel or just a cog in the wheel. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 10:24:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But if you had read the Civilian Review Board report (full disclosure I generally oppose CRB's, I think the jury box is the ultimate CRB) you would have read the CRB says it is a lack of training that led to this deal. The detective was operating on his LEA SOP. I don't go along with the anger thing. It's generally a response to a conditioned stimulus. IMO, LEA's should be required to provide current law training in addition to the mandatory stuff. I figured it up one time and if the LEA did just the required annual recert training on EVERYTHING, baton, radar, FST, handcuffing, firearms, etc...it's right at three solid weeks of training per year. This is not even touching law updates or court decision updates. If you are bean counting it's cheaper to have a lawsuit every so often than budget for proper training. So if you add in state law changes, federal law changes and court decisions you are easily looking at 4 to 6 weeks of annual training. We are required to get 12 hours a year. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not likely. But most cubicle people are not asked to do the things that LE does. Did you ever read the report? But the reforms that policing needs are becoming clearer. Firstly is a requirement that officers know the law and a presumption that in all cases they do. I don't go along with the anger thing. It's generally a response to a conditioned stimulus. IMO, LEA's should be required to provide current law training in addition to the mandatory stuff. I figured it up one time and if the LEA did just the required annual recert training on EVERYTHING, baton, radar, FST, handcuffing, firearms, etc...it's right at three solid weeks of training per year. This is not even touching law updates or court decision updates. If you are bean counting it's cheaper to have a lawsuit every so often than budget for proper training. So if you add in state law changes, federal law changes and court decisions you are easily looking at 4 to 6 weeks of annual training. We are required to get 12 hours a year. |
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