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Posted: 6/12/2017 8:53:52 PM EDT
[#1]
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It'll probably get a last minute amendment to prohibit private ownership of handguns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Its going to be like 86 all over again..  
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Posted: 6/12/2017 8:54:56 PM EDT
[#2]
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Get rid of them in the Primaries, purge the RINOs/cucks/Neo cons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This. There is a PA RINO calling for UBCs. We have a RINO in OR supporting secret court confiscations and indefinite purchase delays. TX RINOs kill open carry. FL RINOs do the same. On federal level, Republicans are even worse when it comes to 2A rights. Only better than commies for now. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 8:58:07 PM EDT
[#3]
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It'll probably get a last minute amendment to prohibit private ownership of handguns. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:00:51 PM EDT
[#4]
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If you think .22 was hard to find, imagine trying to find a suppressor for sale if this passes. Prices will skyrocket and there will be a two year wait due to supply shortages. <-- bought 3 suppressors last week (SDN-6, Ti-Rant 9M, Halcyon). Thanks Hansohn Brothers ! 
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:02:37 PM EDT
[#5]
Either they are trying to remind their bas that they haven't been forgotten, or Trump is not expected to make a full year as President. I'll be surprised if anything close to this passes.
Hopefully this isn't just another bargaining chip that gets sacrificed by the establishment Repubs. With that being said, I'll order mine and do a few home builds if it does. Fingers crossed .And remember, it's not GUNS they hate....Its all of us who stand in their way of ruling the masses with no consequence. They are fine with guns as long as they are the only ones who have them. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:05:13 PM EDT
[#6]
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Either they are trying to remind their bas that they haven't been forgotten, or Trump is not expected to make a full year as President. I'll be surprised if anything close to this passes. Hopefully this isn't just another bargaining chip that gets sacrificed by the establishment Repubs. With that being said, I'll order mine and do a few home builds if it does. Fingers crossed Golly gee,we tried our bestest.
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:05:14 PM EDT
[#7]
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Go build something with high grade stainless, inconel and/or stellite, to extremely tight tolerances which will result in death or injury if you screw it up... and offer a lifetime warranty... with the ATF looking over your shoulder for audits all the time... and get back to us about how cheap and easy that is. 
If something HPA-like passes, then current commercially off the shelf cans will be unobtanium and/or ridiculously expensive for a period until manufacturing and distribution catches up with demand. Suppressors will be hard to get for 6-12 months and then the laws of supply and demand with foster an more competitive environment. You can buy $129 pistols now, but you still bought a $499 Glock. Good stuff will still be good stuff and it will still cost what it costs. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:06:06 PM EDT
[#8]
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That's wishful thinking. Established silencer companies that put out known quality products will have the distinct advantage in the market place still. Sure, some buyers that just want a cheap POS silencer will have easier access to them but they're by no means similar to SiCo, SF, or Dead Air. Should the HPA pass we will see the market flooded with Radical Firearms-esque silencers. No thanks, I'll stick to high quality, durable, full auto rated cans with proven QA/QD systems. I, probably much like you tend to pay more for a proven design, but that doesn't mean the casual shooter needs to (or would ever) spend $800-$1300 on a mid to high end suppressor. There's definitely a market segment for both entry level and the high end. Also, a lot of those shooters who start with a (theoretical) $100-$200 suppressor will eventually see the benefit of a higher end, more permanent solution and will see their way to taking the higher cost plunge, thus growing the industry and fueling innovation in the long term. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:09:16 PM EDT
[#9]
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"Trump is not expected to make a full year as President" The entrenched in DC will do anything to get him and his policies out. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:15:54 PM EDT
[#10]
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Mr Boltcatch, How much machining experience do you personally have? Honest answer please. I'm no trying to be an ass. I am just trying to understand your statement above. I can't say that I have extreme extensive experience. But I do have a bit of it with ti ( Ti 6-4) , al (Various), and various stainless steels. The machining is not that difficult to do, just takes quality cutting heads and good equipment. The average joe who can get access to a good quality lathe can make all of this stuff quickly and easily. There is also more "slop" than you would think in most suppressors. ( I have a few suppressors as well ) Thank you. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:17:20 PM EDT
[#11]
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But the prices will still be $800 or more because a tube with caps on the end is damn near impossible to manufacture. Read an article on them a few years back.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=https://youtu.be/Hnahn3D2sAc |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:19:42 PM EDT
[#12]
I know right. Suppressors are the only device that needs testing, finishing, packaging, ect.
If the tax par goes away, suppressors will be dirt cheap. It has little to do with production costs. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:27:24 PM EDT
[#13]
So build your own suppressor and skip the 10% tax.
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:30:07 PM EDT
[#14]
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I know right. Suppressors are the only device that needs testing, finishing, packaging, ect. If the tax par goes away, suppressors will be dirt cheap. It has little to do with production costs. All sorts of new designs will come out and at all sorts of price points. Just like handguns-you can buy a brand new Hi-Point for around 150.00,or an Ed Brown at a couple thou.-and all points in between. And like IowaRenegade brought up,maybe they can be 3D printed as well. All interesting to discuss,and I will push my reps to get it done,BUT,I am not getting my hopes up for the usual Republican let down. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:31:56 PM EDT
[#15]
tagged for the lulz
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:38:51 PM EDT
[#16]
This thread reminds me of the countless "Trump can't win, we're fucked, it's Hillary for sure" threads posted over the last year.
Some of you never get tired of bitching about the "inevitable" ass-fucking you're going to get. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:40:20 PM EDT
[#17]
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I swear, some of you guys would complain if you were hung with a new rope. 
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:42:01 PM EDT
[#18]
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If all the bullshit goes away and you can buy them over the counter/roll your own,you're Goddamn right the price will drop. All sorts of new designs will come out and at all sorts of price points. Just like handguns-you can buy a brand new Hi-Point for around 150.00,or an Ed Brown at a couple thou.-and all points in between. And like IowaRenegade brought up,maybe they can be 3D printed as well. All interesting to discuss,and I will push my reps to get it done,BUT,I am not getting my hopes up for the usual Republican let down. I'm not holding my breath, but I do think it would be a good and reasonable for it passed. I would love to suppress all my hunting equipment and range guns. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:44:10 PM EDT
[#19]
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Federal Law doesn't Trump state law.Last I knew they were illegal in NY. IF,IF this passes,there will be all sorts of new stuff coming out.Glock makes a disposable one that locks on the barrel. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:45:14 PM EDT
[#20]
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This thread reminds me of the countless "Trump can't win, we're fucked, it's Hillary for sure" threads posted over the last year. Some of you never get tired of bitching about the "inevitable" ass-fucking you're going to get. I used to be optimistic,but as the years go by and you continually get fucked,it's kind of hard to have positive thoughts. YMMV |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:45:44 PM EDT
[#21]
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ATF has long held that the legislative intent was for sporting purposes as existed in 1968. IDPA wasn't around yet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Currently you are only allowed to temporarily loan a firearm to a resident of another state for a "sporting purpose". ATF has interpreted sporting purpose as traditional hunting and sport shooting (trap & skeet) purposes. They don't consider self protection, IDPA, 3gun, etc as a "sporting purpose" Here's to hoping the bullshit is over with. DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:54:19 PM EDT
[#22]
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Im not boltcathc. but I would like to respond. How much does a CNC mill cost? How much does a CNC lather cost? How much does an EDM sinker machine cost? How much does a CNC TIG welding machine cost? How much do the materials cost? How much do your machine operators make a year? How does your graphics design team cost? How much does it cost to produce packaging? CNC Cerakote applicator, R&D, ammo, full auto firearms, bullet traps, air scrubbers...the list goes on. Add all that up (plus some) and I think we can begin to understand why a quality suppressor costs what it costs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Mr Boltcatch, How much machining experience do you personally have? Honest answer please. I'm no trying to be an ass. I am just trying to understand your statement above. I can't say that I have extreme extensive experience. But I do have a bit of it with ti ( Ti 6-4) , al (Various), and various stainless steels. The machining is not that difficult to do, just takes quality cutting heads and good equipment. The average joe who can get access to a good quality lathe can make all of this stuff quickly and easily. There is also more "slop" than you would think in most suppressors. ( I have a few suppressors as well ) Thank you. There will be companies that make cheap cans if HPA passes and a lot of guys are going to buy them. They're going to have all manner of problems with them and ultimately will learn the "buy once cry once" lesson. It's just the way of the world. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:55:07 PM EDT
[#23]
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What does it do? Give me a boner No more sporting clause for importation No more ATF rulings on ammo No more restricting ammo from importation No more over .50 caliber = DD That last one I'm hazy on, maybe buying handguns across state lines? Can we buy artillery then? |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:02:50 PM EDT
[#24]
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AR15's weren't around when the 2A was written. DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Currently you are only allowed to temporarily loan a firearm to a resident of another state for a "sporting purpose". ATF has interpreted sporting purpose as traditional hunting and sport shooting (trap & skeet) purposes. They don't consider self protection, IDPA, 3gun, etc as a "sporting purpose" Here's to hoping the bullshit is over with. DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER
The question was in regards to the "sporting purpose" clause. Try to keep up. (and it DOES matter. If you think it doesn't read the law. ) |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:07:23 PM EDT
[#25]
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That's wishful thinking. Established silencer companies that put out known quality products will have the distinct advantage in the market place still. Sure, some buyers that just want a cheap POS silencer will have easier access to them but they're by no means similar to SiCo, SF, or Dead Air. Should the HPA pass we will see the market flooded with Radical Firearms-esque silencers. No thanks, I'll stick to high quality, durable, full auto rated cans with proven QA/QD systems. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:10:07 PM EDT
[#26]
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So a tube with caps on the end? |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:10:28 PM EDT
[#27]
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I want to believe.  |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:10:41 PM EDT
[#28]
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If you think .22 was hard to find, imagine trying to find a suppressor for sale if this passes. Prices will skyrocket and there will be a two year wait due to supply shortages. Newton wiped out .22 for 3 years? (Optimistic pragmatic)Hopefully maybe it can help out the ar manufacturers that are dumping ar's cheap. At least licensed manufacturers still exist. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:15:29 PM EDT
[#29]
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I'll be calling my representative tomorrow. That said, it is scheduled for a hearing within a subcommittee of a committee. So take that for what its worth. ETA: Beat by a couple of hours. Waiting for a response. I dont mind calling every one of them. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:16:34 PM EDT
[#30]
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THIS!!! Newton wiped out .22 for 3 years? (Optimistic pragmatic)Hopefully maybe it can help out the ar manufacturers that are dumping ar's cheap. At least licensed manufacturers still exist. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you think .22 was hard to find, imagine trying to find a suppressor for sale if this passes. Prices will skyrocket and there will be a two year wait due to supply shortages. Newton wiped out .22 for 3 years? (Optimistic pragmatic)Hopefully maybe it can help out the ar manufacturers that are dumping ar's cheap. At least licensed manufacturers still exist. "Solvent traps","oil filter adapters",3D printing,etc.... will take up the slack. Might even see some wild innovation once people can play legally without worrying about getting screwed over. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:21:02 PM EDT
[#31]
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I swear, some of you guys would complain if you were hung with a new rope. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But the prices will still be $800 or more because a tube with caps on the end is damn near impossible to manufacture. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:24:35 PM EDT
[#32]
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This is the type of shit we have to watch out for. While I personally don't think they would be able to attach that particular poison pill (Outright handgun ban) and get away with it, I wouldn't put it past them to do something like mag bans or restrictions or any other number of stupid shit ideas like all new production pistols must have X as a safety device or some shit. Don't just pay attention to the Guns, Ammo and Mag's either... look for them to come after everything else that goes along with black rifles and a modern civilian gun owner as well. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:24:59 PM EDT
[#33]
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Patiently waiting for PSA to release shitty Chinese $200 cans. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:27:47 PM EDT
[#34]
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It's going to be just like 50 cal rifles. People will squirm and bitch all night long about the cost of an AI or Barrett, but they get a little timid getting behind a $400 rifle, and for good reason. There will be companies that make cheap cans if HPA passes and a lot of guys are going to buy them. They're going to have all manner of problems with them and ultimately will learn the "buy once cry once" lesson. It's just the way of the world. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Mr Boltcatch, How much machining experience do you personally have? Honest answer please. I'm no trying to be an ass. I am just trying to understand your statement above. I can't say that I have extreme extensive experience. But I do have a bit of it with ti ( Ti 6-4) , al (Various), and various stainless steels. The machining is not that difficult to do, just takes quality cutting heads and good equipment. The average joe who can get access to a good quality lathe can make all of this stuff quickly and easily. There is also more "slop" than you would think in most suppressors. ( I have a few suppressors as well ) Thank you. There will be companies that make cheap cans if HPA passes and a lot of guys are going to buy them. They're going to have all manner of problems with them and ultimately will learn the "buy once cry once" lesson. It's just the way of the world. Suppressors cost so much because they are marketed towards people who have enough disposable income to pay a $200 tax, and those people expect an extremely long lasting product in exchange for their expense and inconvenience. This is compounded by the regulatory burden of dealing in NFA transactions. Manufacturers, distributors, and retailers all need to make a big enough margin to make that pain worthwhile. Pull suppressors out of the NFA, and all of that mostly goes away overnight. The tax goes away, and cans will go from manufacturers to consumers in a couple of weeks. Do you really think suppressors should cost more than AR barrels or magnified optics? The real fun is going to be in the hardware store parts lists that pop up here on Arfcom. Guys are going to be making cans out of all kinds of crazy shit just because we can. You think it's going to stop at Maglight bodies and freeze plugs? People are going to be making science experiments out of PVC, conduit, copper pipe, aerosol cans, shop vac attachments, or whatever they think might be fun to duct tape to the end of a 10/22. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:35:51 PM EDT
[#35]
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Patiently waiting for PSA to release shitty Chinese $200 cans. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:38:35 PM EDT
[#36]
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The real fun is going to be in the hardware store parts lists that pop up here on Arfcom. Guys are going to be making cans out of all kinds of crazy shit just because we can. You think it's going to stop at Maglight bodies and freeze plugs? People are going to be making science experiments out of PVC, conduit, copper pipe, aerosol cans, shop vac attachments, or whatever they think might be fun to duct tape to the end of a 10/22. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:40:37 PM EDT
[#37]
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725 to 1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The real question is this, what are the odds it will pass? 
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:42:57 PM EDT
[#38]
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Remember the Palladin Press books? One of their books probably singlehandedly saved the existence of the AR-7. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:43:02 PM EDT
[#39]
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We can haz suppressors? Is there a way to attach a suppressor to a semi auto rifle or handgun without a threaded barrel or muzzle brake/comp/flash hider? If not, NYers will only be able to use them on bolt guns and revolvers. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:44:05 PM EDT
[#40]
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It'll probably get a last minute amendment to prohibit private ownership of handguns. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:44:25 PM EDT
[#41]
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No shit? The AR15 wasn't around in 1492?
The question was in regards to the "sporting purpose" clause. Try to keep up. (and it DOES matter. If you think it doesn't read the law. ) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Currently you are only allowed to temporarily loan a firearm to a resident of another state for a "sporting purpose". ATF has interpreted sporting purpose as traditional hunting and sport shooting (trap & skeet) purposes. They don't consider self protection, IDPA, 3gun, etc as a "sporting purpose" Here's to hoping the bullshit is over with. DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER
The question was in regards to the "sporting purpose" clause. Try to keep up. (and it DOES matter. If you think it doesn't read the law. ) |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:47:30 PM EDT
[#42]
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I'm going to write my rep and one of my senators and ask that they support this bill. My other senator is Claire McCaskill. I won't be writing her, seeing how, as a rule, I don't waste time talking to arrogant jackasses. FCM |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:49:09 PM EDT
[#43]
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Direct thread all aluminum can with 1 stainless baffle for 125.00. Replace baffles as needed for around 6.00 per. You spend as much as you want, I guess names somehow make a 60 degree cone quieter. It is not rocket surgery making a firearm suppressor. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's wishful thinking. Established silencer companies that put out known quality products will have the distinct advantage in the market place still. Sure, some buyers that just want a cheap POS silencer will have easier access to them but they're by no means similar to SiCo, SF, or Dead Air. Should the HPA pass we will see the market flooded with Radical Firearms-esque silencers. No thanks, I'll stick to high quality, durable, full auto rated cans with proven QA/QD systems. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:50:43 PM EDT
[#44]
If any legislation passes easing the restrictions of suppressor manufacturing and sales the economics won't allow for an 8 month catch period. There are plenty of ancillary manufacturers that have the capabilities to produce parts or even complete assemblies but do not get involved due to the current laws.
I've got multiple designs ready to go for additive manufacturing but can't afford the machine and I can't outsource it currently. Change the law and I'll have multiple designs printed by different bureaus within a week. And on the additive note, DD missed the mark on their 3d printed suppressor by merely mimicking subtractive methods. The true beauty is being able to optimize the design without previous constraints. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:52:35 PM EDT
[#45]
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Might even see some wild innovation once people can play legally without worrying about getting screwed over. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:56:16 PM EDT
[#46]
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You don't really think that the 2A was written in 1492, do you? Please tell me you don't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Currently you are only allowed to temporarily loan a firearm to a resident of another state for a "sporting purpose". ATF has interpreted sporting purpose as traditional hunting and sport shooting (trap & skeet) purposes. They don't consider self protection, IDPA, 3gun, etc as a "sporting purpose" Here's to hoping the bullshit is over with. DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER
The question was in regards to the "sporting purpose" clause. Try to keep up. (and it DOES matter. If you think it doesn't read the law. ) 
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Posted: 6/12/2017 11:04:10 PM EDT
[#47]
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Some enterprising person will make a clamp on one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We can haz suppressors? Is there a way to attach a suppressor to a semi auto rifle or handgun without a threaded barrel or muzzle brake/comp/flash hider? If not, NYers will only be able to use them on bolt guns and revolvers. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 11:04:51 PM EDT
[#48]
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You don't really think that the 2A was written in 1492, do you? Please tell me you don't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Currently you are only allowed to temporarily loan a firearm to a resident of another state for a "sporting purpose". ATF has interpreted sporting purpose as traditional hunting and sport shooting (trap & skeet) purposes. They don't consider self protection, IDPA, 3gun, etc as a "sporting purpose" Here's to hoping the bullshit is over with. DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER
The question was in regards to the "sporting purpose" clause. Try to keep up. (and it DOES matter. If you think it doesn't read the law. ) He's a legal scholar. Try to keep up. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 11:07:32 PM EDT
[#49]
I wonder if some of those parts are meant as sacrificial bargaining chips.
Getting rid of state and local laws against suppressors, the part about anything bigger than .50 cal no longer being a DD, and the bit in the HPA refunding $200 tax stamps are all nice to have in there. But they're not really high priority compared to the main point of taking suppressors off the NFA. Once Democrats start calling it a threat to public safety and call for compromise, I suspect the removal of those parts will be offered up to satisfy them. Much better alternative than allowing tighter regulations on other things like mags and ammo to satisfy the need for compromise. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 11:09:55 PM EDT
[#50]
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A lot harder for a guy in his garage to kick out .22's. "Solvent traps","oil filter adapters",3D printing,etc.... will take up the slack. Might even see some wild innovation once people can play legally without worrying about getting screwed over. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you think .22 was hard to find, imagine trying to find a suppressor for sale if this passes. Prices will skyrocket and there will be a two year wait due to supply shortages. Newton wiped out .22 for 3 years? (Optimistic pragmatic)Hopefully maybe it can help out the ar manufacturers that are dumping ar's cheap. At least licensed manufacturers still exist. "Solvent traps","oil filter adapters",3D printing,etc.... will take up the slack. Might even see some wild innovation once people can play legally without worrying about getting screwed over. HPA/SHARE would be the opposite of that. The entire industry is watching and quietly making plans, and manufacturers can gradually increase their level of investment as the bill passes. There will probably be an effective date that comes after Trump signs it. In the time between the Senate passing a bill and that bill going into effect, manufacturers can build a stock of inventory ready to roll on day 1. Pallets of suppressors, integrally suppressed firearms, and integrally suppressed uppers could be arriving at distributors within 48 hours. That's my half way logic-based daydream, anyways. |
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