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Posted: 6/4/2003 8:11:50 AM EDT
[#1]
Motorcycles are like shoes. Some do certain things better than others. Some only do one or two things. Some do many things. This doesn't make one better or worse than another. It is all about what you like.
My main ride is a BMW R1100RS with Ohlins shocks. Was just up in thew White Mountains (NH) over the weekend and had no trouble passing trucks on uphill twisty roads while riding 2-up. The thing handles really well too, and is relatively comfy. I also have a 1995 GSXR1100W that is for sale (I never ride it anymore) and a 1976 CB750F that I have owned since new. There have been other bikes that have come and gone as well, and they have all had good and bad things about them. If you like Harleys, great. If you don't, also great. It doesn't matter... |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 8:15:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: If you like Harleys, great. If you don't, also great. It doesn't matter... Very true. What I can't stand is the pure bullshit and lies that often comes out of the HD-bashers mouths. Too expensive, unreliable, leaks oil, slow, etc. etc. I couldn't care less if you like HD or not, but I have a hard time sitting by and watching people spew forth bullshit. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 8:27:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Quoted: If you like Harleys, great. If you don't, also great. It doesn't matter... Very true. What I can't stand is the pure bullshit and lies that often comes out of the HD-bashers mouths. Too expensive, unreliable, leaks oil, slow, etc. etc. I couldn't care less if you like HD or not, but I have a hard time sitting by and watching people spew forth bullshit. I don't like BS either, from any angle. How many times have we all heard the phrase "Jap crap"? I'll bet it wasn't a Honda guy who came up with it. [:D] As far as "expensive, unreliable, leaks oil, slow, etc." goes, if I can say this without sounding like I am trying to insult Harleys or their owners, those things do have something of a basis in fact, although they are not entirely true. Here's what I mean: expensive: You can get a sporty for not a whole lot, but the big twins are up there in price. For many, who believe that they can get a similar bike from another maker for less, this translates into "too expensive". It is a subjective thing, though. My used BMW was 9k. Some would call that expensive. *shrug* unreliable, leaks oil: the twins that Harley makes shake and vibrate a LOT. This is not a secret. What apparently escapes a good % of owners is the fact that when a bike vibrates and shakes a lot, you have to be very active in keeping things properly torqued, and some items have a shorter lifespan than they would if on a smooth at any speed bike. Ignore these things and you will have trouble. This is just a characteristic of a non-counter balanced 45 degree v-twin engine. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 8:29:59 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Ya'll Harley bashers like to talk about how HD owners are making up for inadequecies. What inadequacies are you making up for by bashing HD? I never have understood the rabid looks on the faces of non-HD riders when they are bashing HD. It's really pretty sad. In terms of needing $20k for a HD, I think not. I know lots of guys that make about $30k a year that ride Harleys. Maybe you should ask one of them how they can afford a $20k bike. Factory "go fast" parts are typically the last thing you want to use if you're looking for HP. Because of this your argument that they just want to sell you more parts is bullshit. If I wanted a gofast sporty I'd buy an 883 and do a 1250 upgrade from Nallin Racing. Almost all of the parts in his kit are either aftermarket or modified-factory parts. HD ain't makin one red cent off that deal. What's mostly being posted on both sides of this argument is shit that's true for SOME of the riders in either camp. SOME crotch rocket riders are arrogant little pricks that do wheelies on I95 in Miami when riding around with all the drunks in cages. SOME of the HD riders are guys having a midlife crisis and trying to capture some lost rebelliousness that they never lived out when they were young. SOME jap-cruiser riders really wish they had a Harley, but due to the excessive cost (most of which is perceived BTW and not real) they don't. We can all make generalities all day long about one another, and somewhere there will be someone that stereotype fits. What we're failing to do is look at the positives of each type of rider. SOME crotch rocket guys set an extremely good example in terms of safety gear. Helmets, gloves, jackets, boots. SOME of the HD riders know more about turning a wrench than any jap rider ever will. No matter what kind of bike you ride there are certain common elements that can be learned from talking to these old timers. SOME of the jap-cruisers are easier to start and ride smoother than alot of Harleys. They are nice to ride bikes out of the box and neither need nor want any sort of modification. We're all two-wheelers fighting cagers, so let's try and act like it. I pull up next to guys on crotch rockets all the time and ask questions about their bikes, how fast they've ridden, how they like the bike, etc. For the most part they've been friendly and answered my questions. I've also had alot of crotch rocket guys pull up and ask me questions about my HD. I try to be friendly and answer their questions as well. Good Post. We should all stick together and enjoy riding - no matter what you ride. Do it safe and be smart about it. I ride a Yamaha VStar 650 Custom. I suppose it's made to look like a Harley. I relly like the bike and the way it looks and it didn't cost too much. I haven't been riding long at all and I thought it would be a good bike to learn on. Maybe someday I'll get a BMW or a Harley - but I'll probably just get another VStar, or similar, with a larger engine. I don't have too much extra cash and I only really like to ride the country roads of South Central Pennsylvania. I don't use it to travel or commute. Also, I don't have the money to put out for the limited amount of riding I do. I sometimes worry that I don't ride enough to get good at it. With three little kids, I can't be too careful. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 8:46:18 AM EDT
[#5]
Three years ago, I became interested in bikes. My best friend had a '99 BMW R1100S. That bike was smooth: fuel injection, ABS, heated grips, adjustable seat, single-sided swingarm, and shaft drive. It was the best-handling BMW bike for its model year but it was comfy, too. A sport-tourer, to be sure. I sat on this bike one night and then realized I HAD to get a motorcycle. I was 24 and had never ridden a motorcyle, on or off road, in my life.
I took the MSF beginner's course, went to the DMV, and got my "Class M" endorsement. Next, I went bike shopping. I had been browsing the bike mags for a few months in anticipation of buying my first bike. I liked cruisers for their style but didn't favor the lack of handling and acceleration. Plus, like others here have said, the only cruiser I really wanted was an HD but it was simply too much cash for me to lay out. I liked the Japanese sportbikes like the CBRs, GSXRs, ZXs, and YZFs, but my insurance permiums would be too high on a true sportbike. I found a new '99 Suzuki 600 Bandit (cheapie, naked sport-tourer) that had been sitting on the showroom floor for a year. It was in my price range ($5200) and I liked the naked look, so I bought it. I liked this bike alot. It was fun to ride, cheap to insure, handled OK, was pretty quick (12.7 in the 1/4), and good-looking (to me). I rode that bike for about 10 months. In June of 2001, I crashed the bike whikle doing a U-turn on a four-lane divided surface street in VA Beach. I low-sided to the left and ran the bike into a curb at about 15 mph, front wheel first. I was fortunate enough to be able to limp away from the accident but the bike had just enough damage to be considered totaled. My left knee was good-as-new within two weeks but my ego took a bit longer to heal. Low speed, sharp turns were always the hardest part of riding a bike for me. If I had it to do all over again, I would have spent several years in the dirt before taking to the street, just to get my balance perfected. Oh, well, you live and learn. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 8:58:11 AM EDT
[#6]
I ride a 88' Honda Hawk GT. I would never ride a Harley.
Compairing the 1911 to the HD is an insult to J.M. Browning. The 1911 was perfect right out of the box, and gets better all the time. The HD twin was a lame design in the begining and has taken 80 years of development to make it perform properly. Do you know why the HD engine has both connecting rods on one crank pin? The original one cylinder HD engine didn't make enough power so they grafted a second cylinder onto the crank case and atached the second piston and rod onto the same crank shaft. This design is inherently unbalanced, and is why they vibrate and don't idle evenly. A V-twin can be a good engine. If you design it right! Look at Ducati. My honda is a V twin with a 52 degree angle between the cylinders (650cc). It runs smooth, makes as much power as a stock 883 HD engine and is completly relable. If you want to ride something slow because you think its cool, go buy a Harley. I'll keep my ricer. Ben, The Emu PS, WTF is the deal with Harley Snobs only waving to other harleys. I dont like cruser bikes but i still wave to them while going down the road. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 9:03:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: expensive: You can get a sporty for not a whole lot, but the big twins are up there in price. For many, who believe that they can get a similar bike from another maker for less, this translates into "too expensive". It is a subjective thing, though. My used BMW was 9k. Some would call that expensive. *shrug* A 2003 Softail lists for $13k. A 2003 Dyna Superglide lists for $12k. A 2003 Electra Glide Standard lists for $15k. A 2003 Vrod lists for $19k (which I agree is rediculous, but it is a nice bike. This is a $3k jump from last year, guess they were losing their ass?) Honda Valkyrie? $13k, and arguably the ugliest cruiser on the road as well. VTX 1300? $9k Kawasaki Vulcan $10k It would appear that the Suzukis are a pretty good deal. An Intruder LC is $10k with a 1500cc engine in it. So yes, the comparable bikes are cheaper from the japs. However, I will direct you to my post above about the honda Ace vs. the Sporty. You're not getting something for nothing, and you're not getting nothing for something. Harley isn't making more or less money than the Japs, they're just spending more on parts and materials than the Japs, therefore the bike costs more. You get what you pay for, it just depends on what it is you want. This is just a characteristic of a non-counter balanced 45 degree v-twin engine. The new motor in the Softail line is the 88B. I'll give you one guess what the 'B' stands for. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 9:05:34 AM EDT
[#8]
Yes, please do keep it.....
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Posted: 6/4/2003 9:08:57 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: The HD twin was a lame design in the begining and has taken 80 years of development to make it perform properly. Do you know why the HD engine has both connecting rods on one crank pin? The original one cylinder HD engine didn't make enough power so they grafted a second cylinder onto the crank case and atached the second piston and rod onto the same crank shaft. This design is inherently unbalanced, and is why they vibrate and don't idle evenly. I'm done doing all the work here. Cite a source or retract your bullshit. Have you actually researched the history of HD? Or were you there? Do you have any clue what you're talking about? We're not riding the same twin we were riding 100 (that's right 100) years ago. Side valves, knuckle heads, pan heads, iron head, evo, twin cam, and then the new vrod engine. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 9:15:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Quoted: expensive: You can get a sporty for not a whole lot, but the big twins are up there in price. For many, who believe that they can get a similar bike from another maker for less, this translates into "too expensive". It is a subjective thing, though. My used BMW was 9k. Some would call that expensive. *shrug* A 2003 Softail lists for $13k. A 2003 Dyna Superglide lists for $12k. A 2003 Electra Glide Standard lists for $15k. A 2003 Vrod lists for $19k (which I agree is rediculous, but it is a nice bike. This is a $3k jump from last year, guess they were losing their ass?) Honda Valkyrie? $13k, and arguably the ugliest cruiser on the road as well. VTX 1300? $9k Kawasaki Vulcan $10k It would appear that the Suzukis are a pretty good deal. An Intruder LC is $10k with a 1500cc engine in it. So yes, the comparable bikes are cheaper from the japs. However, I will direct you to my post above about the honda Ace vs. the Sporty. You're not getting something for nothing, and you're not getting nothing for something. Harley isn't making more or less money than the Japs, they're just spending more on parts and materials than the Japs, therefore the bike costs more. You get what you pay for, it just depends on what it is you want. I totally agree with you on "it just depends on what it is you want". That is the bottom line. The only thing that is important is that you like your bike. We are really in the golden age of motorcycles right now. Ther is such a huge variety of amazing machines to choose from. BTW, I wonder what japanese labor costs are compared to Harley's. This is just a characteristic of a non-counter balanced 45 degree v-twin engine. The new motor in the Softail line is the 88B. I'll give you one guess what the 'B' stands for. OH, RIGHT! I think I saw an article about this when those came out, and totally forgot about it. As I recall, the journalists were raving about what an improvement it was. I think it is a good step. Seems like the V-Rod engine will be the way of the future, as noise and pollution regulations gradually kill off air cooled engines. An old friend of mine has a V-Rod in his garage (parked next to his Hayabusa) that he will let me take out for a ride. I am looking forward to that very much. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 9:21:01 AM EDT
[#11]
Emoto;
I agree, bikes, like cars, seem to be in the second-coming stage right now. There is so much out there that there really is something for everyone. Shows like American Chopper and the other stuff on Discovery is probably helping, as are the shows on the Speed Channel. Watch yourself on the Vrod. I have heard that it is very easy to get surprised by the power in that bike if you're not ready for it. I'd love to own one but I think I'd miss my sporty, and my tastes are running more towards choppers right now. That's really the one sad thing about the Vrod is the customizing potential. It's so tightly engineered that it's going to be difficult to chop. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 9:21:43 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Quoted: The HD twin was a lame design in the begining and has taken 80 years of development to make it perform properly. Do you know why the HD engine has both connecting rods on one crank pin? The original one cylinder HD engine didn't make enough power so they grafted a second cylinder onto the crank case and atached the second piston and rod onto the same crank shaft. This design is inherently unbalanced, and is why they vibrate and don't idle evenly. I'm done doing all the work here. Cite a source or retract your bullshit. Have you actually researched the history of HD? Or were you there? Do you have any clue what you're talking about? We're not riding the same twin we were riding 100 (that's right 100) years ago. Side valves, knuckle heads, pan heads, iron head, evo, twin cam, and then the new vrod engine. I believe he is correct, HD keeps the inherently unbalanced design because it has the characteristic "Harley" vibration and sound. If you think Harley engines are optimized for smoothness and power, LOL-at-you hahahaha. They are what they are. Anyway, here is what is sitting in my driveway: [img]http://greghavener.com/images/bike6.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 9:28:09 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Emoto; I agree, bikes, like cars, seem to be in the second-coming stage right now. There is so much out there that there really is something for everyone. Shows like American Chopper and the other stuff on Discovery is probably helping, as are the shows on the Speed Channel. Watch yourself on the Vrod. I have heard that it is very easy to get surprised by the power in that bike if you're not ready for it. I'd love to own one but I think I'd miss my sporty, and my tastes are running more towards choppers right now. That's really the one sad thing about the Vrod is the customizing potential. It's so tightly engineered that it's going to be difficult to chop. Thanks, I'll be careful. When I do ride it, I will post my impressions (which along with $1.00 will get you a cup of coffee) in this forum. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 9:32:20 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: VTX 1300? $9k That's VTX 1800. I know, it was only a typo. I just like to see "1800" [:)]. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 9:33:20 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Quoted: The HD twin was a lame design in the begining and has taken 80 years of development to make it perform properly. Do you know why the HD engine has both connecting rods on one crank pin? The original one cylinder HD engine didn't make enough power so they grafted a second cylinder onto the crank case and atached the second piston and rod onto the same crank shaft. This design is inherently unbalanced, and is why they vibrate and don't idle evenly. I'm done doing all the work here. Cite a source or retract your bullshit. Have you actually researched the history of HD? Or were you there? Do you have any clue what you're talking about? We're not riding the same twin we were riding 100 (that's right 100) years ago. Side valves, knuckle heads, pan heads, iron head, evo, twin cam, and then the new vrod engine. I did the reasearch years ago so i dont remember the source. i did it for an oral presentation for a public speaking class. If you knew the history of HD you would now this too. its not hard to find. Yes, the head design has changed, but they still use the same crappy crank design. They could use desmodroic valves (no springs. this is the design Ducati uses. I know how it works, do you?) and it would still be an unballanced, out dated crank design. Do your own work before you accuse me of not doing mine. Ben, the Emu PS. RE, The Vrod engine: Big F#$%ing Deal. Harley finaly desgned a new engine from the ground up. its water cooled, only 40 years behind the times. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 9:38:09 AM EDT
[#16]
[b]Most of my friends with HDs seem to top out around 90mph with mods.[/b]
????? my 1947 knucklehead will do an honest 110 mph. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 9:42:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: [b]Most of my friends with HDs seem to top out around 90mph with mods.[/b] ????? my 1947 knucklehead will do an honest 110 mph. Cool. How is it at that speed? |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:07:59 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: [b]Most of my friends with HDs seem to top out around 90mph with mods.[/b] ????? my 1947 knucklehead will do an honest 110 mph. Cool. How is it at that speed? [lol] Oh it'll most likely do it and then some. Years back I had a knucklehead, let's just say at over a hundred you could shake hands with God or at least felt he was your best friend. People talk about motors and the capable speed alot. I had a Yamahammer tarriff bike, Maxum 700, which had the Genesis engine, five valves solid lifter, etc. So it was a cruiser with crotch rocket engine. Technically it was capable of unbelieveable speeds but in reality it sprouted wings around 100 mph and tried to fly. Would scare the holy crap out of me. On the other hand, I had an old Kawasaki 750 V twin that would go 135 smooth as silk. It depends on alot of things. Btw, Campy, 90mph on a bike is a dog. I know a guy around here who has a modified Harley 1200 that's faster than snot on a winter day. I'd tell you how fast but I can't keep up in my Kaw. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:11:44 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The HD twin was a lame design in the begining and has taken 80 years of development to make it perform properly. Do you know why the HD engine has both connecting rods on one crank pin? The original one cylinder HD engine didn't make enough power so they grafted a second cylinder onto the crank case and atached the second piston and rod onto the same crank shaft. This design is inherently unbalanced, and is why they vibrate and don't idle evenly. I'm done doing all the work here. Cite a source or retract your bullshit. Have you actually researched the history of HD? Or were you there? Do you have any clue what you're talking about? We're not riding the same twin we were riding 100 (that's right 100) years ago. Side valves, knuckle heads, pan heads, iron head, evo, twin cam, and then the new vrod engine. I did the reasearch years ago so i dont remember the source. i did it for an oral presentation for a public speaking class. If you knew the history of HD you would now this too. its not hard to find. Yes, the head design has changed, but they still use the same crappy crank design. They could use desmodroic valves (no springs. this is the design Ducati uses. I know how it works, do you?) and it would still be an unballanced, out dated crank design. Do your own work before you accuse me of not doing mine. Ben, the Emu PS. RE, The Vrod engine: Big F#$%ing Deal. Harley finaly desgned a new engine from the ground up. its water cooled, only 40 years behind the times. Relax, dude, people buy bikes for different reasons. It's an emotional purchase, not a logical one. Some guys buy a bike for style, customizing potential, and resale value. Some guys buy a bike to tour the country. Some guys buy a bike to drag a knee in the corners. Some guys buy a bike for its intense acceleration. Harleys are relatively low-tech because the market for that type of bike isn't very concerned about technology. If you give cruiser guys a choice between style and performance, they'll choose style almost every time. That's what make them cruiser guys. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:19:31 AM EDT
[#20]
I have nothing against Harley-Davidson Motorcycles. That'd be stupid. How can I bear a prejudice against an inanimate object? It's the "Hey-look-at-me-I'm-a-biker!" attitude of the owners that gets me. I'd like to take a bunch of them, bury them up to their necks and go at their mulleted heads with a five iron. Unfortunately, I hate golf (and the people that play it even more) and hence do not own any golf clubs, so all I can do is dream.
You want to know what real bikers ride? Want to see how the real life1%'rs get around? 8 blocks from where I work is the Milwaukee HQ of the Outlaws MC. I've never seen one motorcycle, H-D or otherwise, parked out front - they all drive Mercedes and Cadillac's. No shit! Meth trafficking is kind to the wallet I guess, and having reliable transportation is key to staying on top of that business. What can I say? Never, not once, has anybody on a Harley said boo to me much less strike up a polite conversation about the virtues of their or my bike. And that's a shame since I am a hell of a nice guy. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:20:18 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: VTX 1300? $9k That's VTX 1800. I know, it was only a typo. I just like to see "1800" [:)]. No, it's the 1300. [url=http://www.hondamotorcycle.com/motorcycles/Cruiser_Standard/model.asp?ModelName=VTX+%281300%29&ModelYear=2004&ModelId=VTX1300C4]see it here[/url] 1300 [img]http://www.hondamotorcycle.com/assets/images/model/model_hero_shot/motorcycles/2004/small/VTX1300C_medium_01.jpg[/img] 1800 [img]http://www.hondamotorcycle.com/assets/images/model/model_hero_shot/motorcycles/2003/small/VTX_uranium.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:22:59 AM EDT
[#22]
Hey, that's not true. I've had them say "Rice Burner and Jap Crap" a hell of alot.
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:23:45 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: You want to know what real bikers ride? Want to see how the real life1%'rs get around? 8 blocks from where I work is the Milwaukee HQ of the Outlaws MC. I've never seen one motorcycle, H-D or otherwise, parked out front - they all drive Mercedes and Cadillac's. No shit! Meth trafficking is kind to the wallet I guess, and having reliable transportation is key to staying on top of that business. This kills me. Why is a "real biker" only an Outlaw? 'Round here there's lots of non-1% clubs and independents that live the lifestyle AND hold down real jobs. If you think being a biker is about being a 1%er, then I guess you think being a skinhead is about a pair of doc martens, and being a punk is about having a mohawk and reunion tours. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:27:36 AM EDT
[#24]
My dream bike, the Aprilia Moto 6.5...
[img]http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/motor_cycles/2002/7/captain_america/images/tb_lg_DSCN0933-lg.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:28:58 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Relax, dude, people buy bikes for different reasons. It's an emotional purchase, not a logical one. Some guys buy a bike for style, customizing potential, and resale value. Some guys buy a bike to tour the country. Some guys buy a bike to drag a knee in the corners. Some guys buy a bike for its intense acceleration. Harleys are relatively low-tech because the market for that type of bike isn't very concerned about technology. If you give cruiser guys a choice between style and performance, they'll choose style almost every time. That's what make them cruiser guys. OK, i'll calm down. Here is the deal; I like bikes because they can do things no other veichele can (execpt jet fighters). to me its about performace. You can get style ANYWHERE. So if the essence of motorcycles is performace, why buy one for style? HD became a promenent manufacturer of motorcycles because there bikes were the fastest, and most powerful [i]at one time[/i]. im talking before WWII. then it became about style for HD and the japs (who had been buildng motorcycles for basic transportation) started building fast bikes. HD never tried to compete with Japan in the performace market and instead built the same old (now)slow bikes and cranked up a marketing effort to sell with style. If HD (or any american company) designed a new bike that could compete with the Rice rockets i would concider it. Buell doesnt count, its still the same old engine design in a modern preformance frame. Ben, The(I"Cruise"At85mph)Emu |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:29:37 AM EDT
[#26]
My second favorite is....
[img]http://www.tora.ne.jp/nikki/img/vmax.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:29:39 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: VTX 1300? $9k That's VTX 1800. I know, it was only a typo. I just like to see "1800" [:)]. No, it's the 1300. [url=http://www.hondamotorcycle.com/motorcycles/Cruiser_Standard/model.asp?ModelName=VTX+%281300%29&ModelYear=2004&ModelId=VTX1300C4]see it here[/url] 1300 [url]http://www.hondamotorcycle.com/assets/images/model/model_hero_shot/motorcycles/2004/small/VTX1300C_medium_01.jpg[/url] 1800 [url]http://www.hondamotorcycle.com/assets/images/model/model_hero_shot/motorcycles/2003/small/VTX_uranium.jpg[/url] My fault. New model for '03, I guess? The $9k price you quoted should have raised a flag to me that you weren't referring to the 1800. I still like to see "1800". |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:30:39 AM EDT
[#28]
Damn, this place is getting as heated as the Mason thread!!!!!! All in good fun I hope. How about, how many Masons are Harley riders?????Lets throw in..If you go on a Sunday ride, where do you go to church????
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:34:21 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: My second favorite is.... [url]http://www.tora.ne.jp/nikki/img/vmax.jpg[/url] The VMAX is badass. A cruiser-type bike that does 10's in the 1/4. Yamaha should update the engine for even more power and torque. Maybe some bigger brakes as well. Cool bike, either way. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:36:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Most of my friends with HDs seem to top out around 90mph with mods. Then your friends are either chicken, riding the wrong HD, or doing the wrong mods. Ironically, it's probably the last one. People do some stupid-ass shit to HDs in the effort to get them to go fast without understanding one goddamn thing about how to make an HD go fast. Drag pipes are the surest way to make your Harley slower. Very true. I weigh 180 pounds, and my stock 883 Sportster topped out right at 100 mph. My FatBoy will easily pass 100 without any performancing mods (unless you want to count the efi). |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:38:31 AM EDT
[#31]
So does anyone else know how Desmo Valves work?
they have no valve springs. instead they have 2 cams. one to open the valve and one to hold it closed. this was done because of the high RPM these engines can acheive. springs cant keep up. [img]http://redvolution.ducati.com/images/foto2_02.jpg[/img] Aint it cool! Also Honda Utility motors are 100 times better than Briggs & Stratton. should we start a shouting match about this too? Ben, The Emu |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 11:11:38 AM EDT
[#32]
First thing, I have two bikes, a Nighthawk 750 and a Shadow ACE 750. Other than oil and chain lube, I have never had to touch either one. I do long and short trips. I use both bikes. If I own a bike or gun, I ride and shoot them. Out of the guys I ride with, they most ride rice bikes, with 2 BMW's and 5 HD's. The HD guys all have more maintenance than I do by far. That doesn't mean it is not worth it to them.
You want to talk about a pain in the rear.. change the oil in a Motoguzzi! More than a dozen bolts to drop the oil pan, just to get to the filter. Someone made the comment that there are no parts for Metric bikes... Vance Hines, Cobra, Jardine all make stuff for my Shadow. I love my Hondas, but I would still like to have a HD, and a BMW, and a Motoguzzi, and a Triumph. The bottom line, if we all only wanted HD's then this would be a boring world. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 11:28:45 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: So does anyone else know how Desmo Valves work? they have no valve springs. instead they have 2 cams. one to open the valve and one to hold it closed. this was done because of the high RPM these engines can acheive. springs cant keep up. [url]http://www.geocities.com/750paso/pictures/beltdrive-desmo.gif[/url] Aint it cool! Also Honda Utility motors are 100 times better than Briggs & Stratton. should we start a shouting match about this too? Ben, The Emu I'm familiar with the desmo valve setup. It's definitely cool but they make valve springs these days that are plenty capable high rpm use. Yamaha's R6 has a redline of 15.5k or 16k rpm and there are lots of bikes that redline at 13k rpm or more. The Duc twins don't rev that high, so I don't know why they've stayed with the desmo setup. It's a less efficient way to operate the valves, meaning you lose more power through that type of valvetrain than you would with conventional springs. Still cool, though. The replacement bike for the 999 might do away with them, even though they are a Ducati icon. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 11:34:04 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: I've never seen a Harley involved in an accident. I've never seen a Harley rider with a passenger duck and weave through traffic. I've never seen a Harley rider do a 'wheelie' for a half-block through traffic at rush hour or any other hour. I've never seen a Harley rider doing 100+ mph on the freeway coming from out of nowhere. ALL the Harley riders I've observed seem to know they are riding a MOTORCYCLE. I HAVE SEEN plenty of import bikes and their riders DOWN and sometimes OUT. I'll have to go with the Harley riders on this one. [red]You need to get out more my friend.[/red] I live here in TN adjacent to "The Dragon". We see bikes dropped about two a weekend from there alone. Last fatality was a Harley. The guy leaned her a bit too far and caught his peg in the asphalt. He shot like a bullet over the bars and his shorty helmet was no match for a tree. Right. Silly me. I don't get out much, being a Bus Driver...[rolleyes]. I [b]AM[/b] TRAFFIC. I call it as I see it. Of course, maybe I don't see as many H-D riders around in Liberal Land, the Greater Seattle Area, as some people see elsewhere. Too many people driving Volvos with 'NO IRAQ WAR' stickers on them. [;D] They'd be really scary on any kind of motorcycle. Harley Bashing...the sport of import bike lovers. The TRUTH is what I stated. I've not seen ANY Harley riders out there being a PITA. Maybe they're as wary of the others on the road as I am. Ride what you like. When I get a motorcycle, it'll be a Harley-Davidson Road Glide: [img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=11881[/img] 'cuz I like it like that, that's why |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:03:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Here is the deal; I like bikes because they can do things no other veichele can (execpt jet fighters). to me its about performace. You can get style ANYWHERE. So if the essence of motorcycles is performace, why buy one for style? HD became a promenent manufacturer of motorcycles because there bikes were the fastest, and most powerful [i]at one time[/i]. im talking before WWII. then it became about style for HD and the japs (who had been buildng motorcycles for basic transportation) started building fast bikes. HD never tried to compete with Japan in the performace market and instead built the same old (now)slow bikes and cranked up a marketing effort to sell with style. FOR YOU. Nobody has said that HD is about pure performance. What's wrong with it being about something else? Are your clothes only there to keep you warm? Your car only there to transport you? As soon as you apply this logic to every single other thing in your life then I'll entertain that argument. If HD (or any american company) designed a new bike that could compete with the Rice rockets i would concider it. Buell doesnt count, its still the same old engine design in a modern preformance frame. Where does the Vrod fit into your equation? Ben, The(I"Cruise"At85mph)Emu Norm, The (me too, on a Sporty) 74 |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:15:36 PM EDT
[#36]
The [b]V-ROD[/b], simply put, Out-Euro'd and Out-Riced every other motorcycle, period.
The Americans, specifically, "Harley-Davidson Americans" [;D] , beat everybody else at their own game of 'let's copy Harley' or 'let's beat Harley'. Harley was way ahead of them all. There was a recently shown TV special about the creation of the V-ROD. That motorcycle is the epitome of how the Americans used every trick in the book, including getting Porsche in on the act! They kicked ASS. The V-ROD is an outstanding example of imagination, engineering and execution of design in a motorcyle. That said, I'll still go for the 'old, archaic' Road Glide. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:18:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Own a BMW and love it but also wouldn't mind owning a Harley!
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:20:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Quoted: If HD (or any american company) designed a new bike that could compete with the Rice rockets i would concider it. Buell doesnt count, its still the same old engine design in a modern preformance frame. Where does the Vrod fit into your equation? Im sorry, did HD start racing the vrod in super bike races and i missed it? When i say performace im talking about more than power. Ben, The Emu |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:27:05 PM EDT
[#39]
Suzuki Katana 600 - beginner sport-like bike
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:34:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If HD (or any american company) designed a new bike that could compete with the Rice rockets i would concider it. Buell doesnt count, its still the same old engine design in a modern preformance frame. Where does the Vrod fit into your equation? Im sorry, did HD start racing the vrod in super bike races and i missed it? When i say performace im talking about more than power. Ben, The Emu I never said they did. But it is entirely a modern bike. If you like to go fast on a crotch rocket in the twisties, that's all well and good, and I haven't bashed that type of riding once. What I can't figure is why you give such a big shit about what kind of riding anyone else likes to do. Like I said, when you can show that you live your entire life around pure performance and no style at all, we'll talk. Until then, I'm just going to tune out your endless HD bashing and assume that some 1%er stomped your nuts when you were a kid. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:46:21 PM EDT
[#41]
part II
Quoted: Quoted: Here is the deal; I like bikes because they can do things no other veichele can (execpt jet fighters). to me its about performace. You can get style ANYWHERE. So if the essence of motorcycles is performace, why buy one for style? HD became a promenent manufacturer of motorcycles because there bikes were the fastest, and most powerful [i]at one time[/i]. im talking before WWII. then it became about style for HD and the japs (who had been buildng motorcycles for basic transportation) started building fast bikes. HD never tried to compete with Japan in the performace market and instead built the same old (now)slow bikes and cranked up a marketing effort to sell with style. FOR YOU. Nobody has said that HD is about pure performance. What's wrong with it being about something else? Are your clothes only there to keep you warm? Your car only there to transport you? As soon as you apply this logic to every single other thing in your life then I'll entertain that argument. No, im saying that bikes should be mostly about performance, because that is what they are good at. To me, riding a slow bike is like driving an econbox car that doesn't get good mileage or owning a "replica" gun that doesn't shoot. get it yet? Anyway, you can spend your money anyway you want. i'll spend mine how it makes sence to me. And yes, my clothes are mostly to keep me warm. i dont wear t shitrs with brand logos like Nike or hillfiger. why should i buy a shirt to help advertise a company? Ben. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:47:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: part II Quoted: Quoted: Here is the deal; I like bikes because they can do things no other veichele can (execpt jet fighters). to me its about performace. You can get style ANYWHERE. So if the essence of motorcycles is performace, why buy one for style? HD became a promenent manufacturer of motorcycles because there bikes were the fastest, and most powerful [i]at one time[/i]. im talking before WWII. then it became about style for HD and the japs (who had been buildng motorcycles for basic transportation) started building fast bikes. HD never tried to compete with Japan in the performace market and instead built the same old (now)slow bikes and cranked up a marketing effort to sell with style. FOR YOU. Nobody has said that HD is about pure performance. What's wrong with it being about something else? Are your clothes only there to keep you warm? Your car only there to transport you? As soon as you apply this logic to every single other thing in your life then I'll entertain that argument. No, im saying that all bikes sould be 90% performance. To me, riding a slow bike is like driving an econbox car that doesn't get good mileage or owning a "replica" gun that doesn't shoot. get it yet? Ben. FOR YOU! Again, why are you so concerned with what other people do? I couldn't care less what kind of riding you want to do, so why are you concerned with mine? I haven't (I don't think) bashed anyone else's type of riding/bike, so why do you have to go out of your way to bash others? Saying "Harleys are slow antiques that are all about style" is like saying "the sky is blue" or "Norman74 is an asshole" or "Eric_the_hun is a christian" or "the_emu has issues". It's redundant. All I've done is call you ane others on your unsubstantiated bullshit, nothing more. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:50:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: And yes, my clothes are mostly to keep me warm. i dont wear t shitrs with brand logos like Nike or hillfiger. why should i buy a shirt to help advertise a company? Ben. Who said anything about logos? Other than my Harley & biker tshirts (which I happen to collect from the various dealerships I visit) I don't have anything with logos. But I still wear clothes that look good. You must look damn funny screaming along at your oh-so-fast 85mph with a potato sack made into pants. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:58:55 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: FOR YOU! Again, why are you so concerned with what other people do? I couldn't care less what kind of riding you want to do, so why are you concerned with mine? I haven't (I don't think) bashed anyone else's type of riding/bike, so why do you have to go out of your way to bash others? Saying "Harleys are slow antiques that are all about style" is like saying "the sky is blue" or "Norman74 is an asshole" or "Eric_the_hun is a christian" or "the_emu has issues". It's redundant. All I've done is call you ane others on your unsubstantiated bullshit, nothing more. Fisrt, sorry about the (temporry) double post. i had a little computer glitch. i think my (completed) post explains it you are right, what i said is true for me. my opinions are my own. Do what ever you want, i just dont get it. i dont have to. as far as the history of motorcycles, HD and jap bikes. if you do your own research im sure you will find what ive said to be true. Ben. PS, how many pages do you think this will this go? im guessing atleast 10 pages. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:04:29 PM EDT
[#45]
the_emu;
empty your box, trying to send you IM. On topic; What you've said re: the history of HD engines is your (or someone else's) interpretation of the facts, not the facts in and of themselves. There is a difference. I want to get this right, so hopefully when I get home I'll have time to check my sources and post the facts. I'm going out of town for a few days so this may well die without me here to egg it on, lol. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:06:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Quoted: And yes, my clothes are mostly to keep me warm. i dont wear t shitrs with brand logos like Nike or hillfiger. why should i buy a shirt to help advertise a company? Ben. Who said anything about logos? Other than my Harley & biker tshirts (which I happen to collect from the various dealerships I visit) I don't have anything with logos. But I still wear clothes that look good. You must look damn funny screaming along at your oh-so-fast 85mph with a potato sack made into pants. Sounds to me like you ae the one taking this personally. i mentiond the clothes thing because you asked about it. my point is, my bike is fast for the same reason my clothes are practial. And no, 85 isnt that fast for a jap bike. its just were my bike feels comfortable. i could cruise 110 on my bike but dont want to. lighten up. this is just the net, its not real life. Ben |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:15:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: You must look damn funny screaming along at your oh-so-fast 85mph with a potato sack made into pants. Now that's funny. My co-workers thought I had busted a gut when I read that one. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:19:31 PM EDT
[#48]
I'm saving up for a bike made by Jesse James. Now THAT is a bike!!! |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:22:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: The [b]V-ROD[/b], simply put, Out-Euro'd and Out-Riced every other motorcycle, period. The Americans, specifically, "Harley-Davidson Americans" [;D] , beat everybody else at their own game of 'let's copy Harley' or 'let's beat Harley'. Harley was way ahead of them all. There was a recently shown TV special about the creation of the V-ROD. That motorcycle is the epitome of how the Americans used every trick in the book, including getting Porsche in on the act! They kicked ASS. The V-ROD is an outstanding example of imagination, engineering and execution of design in a motorcyle. That said, I'll still go for the 'old, archaic' Road Glide. You know this is an interesting post. I often feel the Jap bikes sold out. For years their edge was performance and technology. They seem so committed to taking market share from Harley they have lost their edge and potential market share. They downscale the performance and technology to be nothing more than a "Me Too". If I'm going to ride a chain drive air cooled V twin, it will be a Harley or Victory. They just don't get it. I do so love a multiple self lashing valve water cooled and shaft driven in line four. That's technology but it's getting hard to find a bike with this that you don't have to ride bent over the tank. Like Norm says, people ride different bikes for different reasons. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 2:17:38 PM EDT
[#50]
You HD fans are almost correct.
Yes, the Jap bikes are trying for that HD style/look. HD has that certain cache you won't ever get with the Jap cruisers. But the Jap cruisers perform better, ride better and are certainly more reliable. As usual, the Japanese companies come in and are able to do more for less. I like HD, but for half the price I can have a bike as good as and more likely better than an HD. Buells, now that's just throwing your money away. In a market segment where performance counts, Buell isn't in the same universe as the Japanese. |
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