There's got to be some reason to this - certainly wasn't concocted at random.

I wouldn't think they would post something like that unless there's meat behind the story.

I guess that explains why some did not care to see 5.45 AK rifles made into pistols. Build it and the ATF will come.

Im pretty sure they did this before with 7.62x39 and cut off the import of steel core chicom stuff back in the 90s

Yes, but this is domestic ammo.

what a suprise

That means a Firearms purchaser Identification card will now be required to purchase .223 ammo in NJ....  we cannot purchase handgun ammunition with a firearm permit here.

so my AR is a paper weight now?

Fuck the BATFE

I just checked the ATF website under proposed, advanced proposed and general rulings and could not find anything on the site.

Hmmmmm you think this is the "under the radar" action they have been talking about?

The thought that they can regulate us via ammunition is probably in the playbook somewhere.

Well they want everyone to send those two types of bullets in, so does that mean they are going to start going door to door to get all the M855 that has been sold?

I am also going to guess that they are going to want to take it all without paying ANYONE for the bullets and ammo they are going to STEAL from everyone.




Follow me over the border my friend, there is a free state next to us that would be willing to sell us ammo.

Tag for the follow

What a bunch of crap

I dont know their motivation other than haivng more regs, Im just saying its been done before.

Ammo bans have always been mentioned in democrat/liberal strategy.

+1

this is the goal

also NSA, my brother has a friend that goes to church with him, he works for the NSA, he claims to have been in meetings about this subject. i was told this story roughly 10 years ago. who knows if it's true, but i don't doubt it

we getting close to a revolution yet? because this shit is going way to far

So, pistol ammo......

I'm confused.....

Help?

Has there been ANY independent verification of this?

Tag for hopeful April 1 joke somewhere....

I just shit my pants, panicked and ordered some more 5.56. I'm so easily pushed into panic mode.

completely justified IMO with the current crop of shitheads running the show. i want to buy 5k of the pmc xtac, but funds dont permit and i dont have a credit card

Sorry for all of you 18-20yr olds with ARs, better luck next time.

Time to buy cheap surplus 5.45........

Got a guy over at ar15armory that says he found out about it when he got raided..... No details other than that

Since none of those are generally Fudd calibers, this could be a backdoor way of tightening up on things...

No 30/30 (Thompson Contender) hmmm...

Everything I see is from Jay Wolf-  Elite Ammuntion.

He's claiming he got a visit from a SWAT team?
http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/BATF-Classifies-223-65-t106361.html&pid=1496491#entry1496491

wait a minute, so now we have vendors getting raided and having their property STOLEN????? shits gone far enough. things need to be put into motion that can't be undone.

These the ones?

http://www.icarry.org/ftopicp-19853.html

But is the ammo I use in my rifles now classified as pistol ammo?
WTF?

They are just kicking the dog for the facts that were exposed before Congress.

WTF Im confused, so confused and shocked that Im angry

M855 was specifically excluded from the definition of armor piercing ammunition.  So don't worry about that.

There is NOTHING new here.  This manufacturer simply asked for clarification from ATF regarding bullets.

Brass or other bullets made of a solid alloy are not allowed in cartridges that can be fired from pistols.  Nothing new.

Pure copper bullets are allowed, and have been.  Nothing new.

This isn't really new, the anti-gunners passed a bill banning "cop-killing" bullets in the '80's or '90's, the ORIGINAL proposal was to ban any handgun ammunition capable of penetrating a protective vest (actually, before that, they wanted to ban ANY ammunition that could penetrate a vest), that got changed to a bullet composition rule regarding handgun ammunition.  There was a big stink in the '90's when Olympic Arms (I think that's who it was) came out with a "handgun" in 7.62x39, which immediately allowed the BATF to shut down the sales of all of the cheap steel-core 7.62x39 rifle ammunition that was being imported at the time.



The entire thing is unConstitutional, and hopefully under _Heller_ we can finally get it repealed.

While I  also believe the new regulation to be bullshit, it isn't as doom and gloom as some here are already prepared to believe.

So lets just say that .223 and all other common AR15 calibers are labeled as pistol ammunition.

First, lets examine what the law actually says:

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and
which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other
substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass,
bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

 (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and
intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25
percent of the total weight of the projectile.

ATF has specifically exempted the following rounds:

5.56 SS109 and M855 NATO rounds, with a steel penetrator tip.
.30-06 M2 AP ammo.


So, the definition of armor piercing ammunition, per federal law, would not pertain very many projectiles on the market.

As stated above, M855 doesn't qualify as AP since the projectile is not 'constructed entirely' out of any regulated material. There is plenty of lead inside of m855.

So what about the  Trident projectile in question? The problem is that the Trident round is made entirely out of a copper zinc alloy, otherwise known as brass. Brass is a material that be considered 'armor piercing' under federal law, and that right there is the problem for the Trident round.

So what about other solid bullets? Standard copper doesn't qualify, so no need to worry about the TSX and its variants. However, certain solid bullets made from 'gilding metal' (which could also technically be considered brass) may now qualify as armor piercing.

For instance, the Hornady GSX bullets may now be considered armor piercing in select calibers. Ditto for the E-tip.

Also, Barnes Banded Solids (which made from gilding metal rather than copper and therefore might technically be considered 'brass') may also be affected.

So while a handful of perfectly good bullets may meet their demise because of this crazy administrative ruling, the sky isn't falling just yet.

Our beloved Barnes TSX and TAC-XP rounds are both safe. As are M855, MK318 and the overwhelming majority of other projectiles.

Also, who knows if the ATF will bother to enforce this ruling unilaterally or not. Frankly speaking, they're an agency where selective enforcement seems to be pretty common place.

Seems entirely possible.

No independent verification makes me uneasy...

either its going to be published, its a proposed ruling, a misinterpretation of some ruling, someone overheard someone else talking or some agent in the know let the cat out of the bag to soon

The question is if it is happening there must be factual information to back up claims that ATF raided someone and did not have this regulation published anywhere.

Or factual information that its a proposed ruling inconcert with some sick anti 2nd group influencing the ATF

I cant write reps, call reps and beat the NRA, GOA's doors down and demand they do anything without facts or evidence in front of me.

this

Yes.

All of it.

No.

ATF has specifically exempted the following rounds:

5.56 SS109 and M855 NATO rounds, with a steel penetrator tip.
.30-06 M2 AP ammo.

source: http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIG1.html

Simple reason: M855 doesn't meet the construction criteria for armor piercing ammunition.

Seriously, I call BS,

If any of you team members remember the thread where elite has a customer blacklist that they posted publicly on their website, mostly full of people trying to get a refund, when elite couldnt deliver their ammo based on their Pay now, deliver when it might be available business model..

IF any of you remember what happened between him and Arfcom member Black-x



If you have team, heres the archieved thread.
Elite ammunition blacklist

not good.

ive got something for the ATF