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Posted: 7/11/2011 11:59:40 AM EDT
From Elite Ammunition
The BATF has ruled that all of these cartridges are now pistol cartridges. Since they are now pistol cartridges their construction now falls under the content and construction limitations of the 68 GAC and pistol cartridges.
WTF? 
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:00:06 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:00:41 PM EDT
[#2]
That agency needs to be disbanned. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:00:47 PM EDT
[#3]
peak ss262  |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:00:59 PM EDT
[#4]
WTF
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:01:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: From Elite Ammunition The BATF has ruled that all of these cartridges are now pistol cartridges. Since they are now pistol cartridges their construction now falls under the content and construction limitations of the 68 GAC and pistol cartridges. WTF? Odd tag for outcome |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:01:17 PM EDT
[#6]
If that is all they do we are lucky.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:01:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Got the same email, never bought that ammo though. I believe it only refers to the EA ammo and some other manufactures. Here is the email.
BATF and EA Recent Finding: EA has had to remove our Trident bullets in .223, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC. The BATF has ruled that all of these cartridges are now pistol cartridges. Since they are now pistol cartridges their construction now falls under the content and construction limitations of the 68 GAC and pistol cartridges. Currently from other bullet makers like Barnes, solid .223 caliber bullets are still being manufactured and sold . We are working with our BATF IOI person to find out the following, A) Is Barnes bullets and all other maker that constructs solid bullets in .223 going to have to stop. B) If not then why do we have to stop since out basic shape and metallurgical content of our PFP bullets are the same as theirs? C) Since they are now handgun caliber limited how does Magtech solid copper pistol bullets not fall under the 68 GAC as AP? D) If Solid copper is not considered a violation of the 68 GAC in handgun bullets then it should also be not a violation of the 68 GAC to make EA’s PFP bullets from solid copper as Magtech does. Those who have T6 ammunition and PFP bullets will be contacted by the BATF to recover any bullets or ammunition that have not been FIRED yet. I apologize for this inconvenience and hopefully we can get this matter straightened out one way or another. Jay Wolf Pr. Elite Ammunition |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:01:40 PM EDT
[#8]
I hope they dont do the same with 5.45mm.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:01:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:02:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Will this affect M855 at all?
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:02:21 PM EDT
[#11]
In on one....
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:02:26 PM EDT
[#12]
no more ap..
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:02:35 PM EDT
[#13]
I thought that any ammo that had ever had a pistol chambered for it automatically becomes "pistol ammo". Is this not the case?
Weren't there some harsh words said about the Pachmayr Dominator because of that? |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:02:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Got the same email, never bought that ammo though. I believe it only refers to the EA ammo and some other manufactures. Here is the email. My take is it illegalizes the production and sale of my beloved 85gr TSX.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:03:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Are they taking about AP ammo? If so, that's not really news...
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:04:21 PM EDT
[#16]
What implications does this have to the average shooter?
I haven't noticed any difference in buying pistol vs rifle ammo. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:04:23 PM EDT
[#17]
I just love how a law enforcement agency is able to make up new laws as they fucking please.
So I guess this means no more AP 5.56?
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:04:28 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Got the same email, never bought that ammo though. I believe it only refers to the EA ammo and some other manufactures. Here is the email. BATF and EA Recent Finding: EA has had to remove our Trident bullets in .223, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC. The BATF has ruled that all of these cartridges are now pistol cartridges. Since they are now pistol cartridges their construction now falls under the content and construction limitations of the 68 GAC and pistol cartridges. Currently from other bullet makers like Barnes, solid .223 caliber bullets are still being manufactured and sold . We are working with our BATF IOI person to find out the following, A) Is Barnes bullets and all other maker that constructs solid bullets in .223 going to have to stop. B) If not then why do we have to stop since out basic shape and metallurgical content of our PFP bullets are the same as theirs? C) Since they are now handgun caliber limited how does Magtech solid copper pistol bullets not fall under the 68 GAC as AP? D) If Solid copper is not considered a violation of the 68 GAC in handgun bullets then it should also be not a violation of the 68 GAC to make EA’s PFP bullets from solid copper as Magtech does. Those who have T6 ammunition and PFP bullets will be contacted by the BATF to recover any bullets or ammunition that have not been FIRED yet. I apologize for this inconvenience and hopefully we can get this matter straightened out one way or another. Jay Wolf Pr. Elite Ammunition It only shows when I quote you. 
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:04:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Huh?
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:05:13 PM EDT
[#20]
 look like awesome projos |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:05:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Cliff Notes?
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:05:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Got the same email, never bought that ammo though. I believe it only refers to the EA ammo and some other manufactures. Here is the email. My take is it illegalizes the production and sale of my beloved 85gr TSX.
What about the Barnes 95 TTSX? |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:06:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Solid copper?
Wtf? Why would it make it pistol ammo though? |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:06:44 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Got the same email, never bought that ammo though. I believe it only refers to the EA ammo and some other manufactures. Here is the email. BATF and EA Recent Finding: EA has had to remove our Trident bullets in .223, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC. The BATF has ruled that all of these cartridges are now pistol cartridges. Since they are now pistol cartridges their construction now falls under the content and construction limitations of the 68 GAC and pistol cartridges. Currently from other bullet makers like Barnes, solid .223 caliber bullets are still being manufactured and sold . We are working with our BATF IOI person to find out the following, A) Is Barnes bullets and all other maker that constructs solid bullets in .223 going to have to stop. B) If not then why do we have to stop since out basic shape and metallurgical content of our PFP bullets are the same as theirs? C) Since they are now handgun caliber limited how does Magtech solid copper pistol bullets not fall under the 68 GAC as AP? D) If Solid copper is not considered a violation of the 68 GAC in handgun bullets then it should also be not a violation of the 68 GAC to make EA’s PFP bullets from solid copper as Magtech does. Those who have T6 ammunition and PFP bullets will be contacted by the BATF to recover any bullets or ammunition that have not been FIRED yet. I apologize for this inconvenience and hopefully we can get this matter straightened out one way or another. Jay Wolf Pr. Elite Ammunition It only shows when I quote you. ????????????? |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:06:54 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
I thought that any ammo that had ever had a pistol chambered for it automatically becomes "pistol ammo". Is this not the case? If that were the case, then .50BMG would be pistol ammo, because somebody did build a pistol chambered in .50BMG. It becomes pistol ammo when the BATF decides to declare it to be pistol ammo. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:07:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Not sure how. TSX is all copper, right?Quoted: Got the same email, never bought that ammo though. I believe it only refers to the EA ammo and some other manufactures. Here is the email. My take is it illegalizes the production and sale of my beloved 85gr TSX. Federal law defines AP handgun as: (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:07:44 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: It becomes pistol ammo when the BATF decides to declare it to be pistol ammo. Basically, this. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:09:10 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm sorry, but this is complete fucking bull shit.... The BATF needs to go fuck itself.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:11:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
What implications does this have to the average shooter? I haven't noticed any difference in buying pistol vs rifle ammo. There are laws restricting "armor piercing handgun ammunition". Those laws do not define "armor piercing" as ammo that the military or the manufacturer label as "armor piercing", but impose their own definition that can be used to ban ammo that does not use the old standard jacketed lead bullets. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:12:17 PM EDT
[#30]
If so, then this should only impact factory loaded ammo and not bullets (I think). So, to get AP bullets in .223 you would have to load your own and gven it is hard to find steel core bullets you would need to buy pulled bullets like we do now for the 7.62. That is just my oppinion without looking at it closer. EDIT - this may not really affect M855 as the steel core is very small...No chance on me shooting any of my M855 again! 
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:12:37 PM EDT
[#31]
First: BATFE makes "Green" ammo illegal.
Next: EPA makes "non-Green" ammo illegal. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:13:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: I'm sorry, but this is complete fucking bull shit.... The BATF needs to go fuck itself. With a rusty, notched, dull kitchen knife. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:13:35 PM EDT
[#33]
how do we stop the BATF from making up whatever / whenever they want? Write our congressman?
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:13:40 PM EDT
[#34]
This just in,..... Grilled cheese now requires a stamp.
One of the reasons I will not build an SBR or buy a can is I will not enable or support this thuggery. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED well unless you want send us $200, you still have the right to send us money. FBHO FBATFE |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:14:27 PM EDT
[#35]
so which bullets do i need to run out an panic buy?
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:16:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Hell with solid copper, I want depleted Uranium projectiles!Quoted: Not sure how. TSX is all copper, right?Quoted: Got the same email, never bought that ammo though. I believe it only refers to the EA ammo and some other manufactures. Here is the email. My take is it illegalizes the production and sale of my beloved 85gr TSX. Federal law defines AP handgun as: (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in ahandgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presenceof traces of other substances) from one or a combination oftungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, ordepleted uranium; or (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliberdesigned and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has aweight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of theprojectile. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:18:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Solid copper? Wtf? Why would it make it pistol ammo though? Here's the crazy paranoid chain of thought that just flashed through my head. 1. Armor piercing pistol ammo is illegal (I'm just inferring that from comments in this thread, i don't really know) 2. ATF declares .223 to be a pistol ammo. 3. ATF declares that solid copper bullets are armor piercing. 4. EPA declares that bullets with lead are illegal....or the Fed. Gov. pressures states into banning lead ammo in the usual way (withholding funds). 5. The population now has a bunch of useless "semi automatic assault style rifles" Gonna go hit wally world for some fresh tinfoil. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:19:20 PM EDT
[#38]
I'll get in one page 1 for some clarification and further understanding!
BigDozer66 |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:19:54 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:22:20 PM EDT
[#40]
I smell BS.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:22:25 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
I may have mis spoke. I'll fall back on my original response: WTF?Quoted:
Not sure how. TSX is all copper, right?
Quoted:
Got the same email, never bought that ammo though. I believe it only refers to the EA ammo and some other manufactures. Here is the email. My take is it illegalizes the production and sale of my beloved 85gr TSX.
Federal law defines AP handgun as: (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in ahandgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presenceof traces of other substances) from one or a combination oftungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, ordepleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliberdesigned and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has aweight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of theprojectile.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:23:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Quoted: Solid copper? Wtf? Why would it make it pistol ammo though? Here's the crazy paranoid chain of thought that just flashed through my head. 1. Armor piercing pistol ammo is illegal (I'm just inferring that from comments in this thread, i don't really know) 2. ATF declares .223 to be a pistol ammo. 3. ATF declares that solid copper bullets are armor piercing. 4. EPA declares that bullets with lead are illegal....or the Fed. Gov. pressures states into banning lead ammo in the usual way (withholding funds). 5. The population now has a bunch of useless "semi automatic assault style rifles" Gonna go hit wally world for some fresh tinfoil. Isn't the military experimenting with solid copper ammo? Could be a way to ban future surplus ammo from the civilian market. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:23:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
I smell BS. Let's hope so. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:24:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Solid copper? Wtf? Why would it make it pistol ammo though? Here's the crazy paranoid chain of thought that just flashed through my head. 1. Armor piercing pistol ammo is illegal (I'm just inferring that from comments in this thread, i don't really know) 2. ATF declares .223 to be a pistol ammo. 3. ATF declares that solid copper bullets are armor piercing. 4. EPA declares that bullets with lead are illegal....or the Fed. Gov. pressures states into banning lead ammo in the usual way (withholding funds). 5. The population now has a bunch of useless "semi automatic assault style rifles" Gonna go hit wally world for some fresh tinfoil. I dont think you are paranoid I think you may be onto somthing. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:24:55 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: Solid copper? Wtf? Why would it make it pistol ammo though? Here's the crazy paranoid chain of thought that just flashed through my head. 1. Armor piercing pistol ammo is illegal (I'm just inferring that from comments in this thread, i don't really know) 2. ATF declares .223 to be a pistol ammo. 3. ATF declares that solid copper bullets are armor piercing. 4. EPA declares that bullets with lead are illegal....or the Fed. Gov. pressures states into banning lead ammo in the usual way (withholding funds). 5. The population now has a bunch of useless "semi automatic assault style rifles" Gonna go hit wally world for some fresh tinfoil ammo. FIFY |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:25:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: the EPA already tried to ban lead ammoQuoted: Quoted: Solid copper? Wtf? Why would it make it pistol ammo though? Here's the crazy paranoid chain of thought that just flashed through my head. 1. Armor piercing pistol ammo is illegal (I'm just inferring that from comments in this thread, i don't really know) 2. ATF declares .223 to be a pistol ammo. 3. ATF declares that solid copper bullets are armor piercing. 4. EPA declares that bullets with lead are illegal....or the Fed. Gov. pressures states into banning lead ammo in the usual way (withholding funds). 5. The population now has a bunch of useless "semi automatic assault style rifles" Gonna go hit wally world for some fresh tinfoil. Isn't the military experimenting with solid copper ammo? Could be a way to ban future surplus ammo from the civilian market. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:25:33 PM EDT
[#47]
Taggin.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:25:43 PM EDT
[#48]
I'm confused as to what the ultimate effect of this is?
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:25:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: First: BATFE makes "Green" ammo illegal. Next: EPA makes "non-Green" ammo illegal. Holy shit! That makes sense! |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 12:26:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Will this affect M855 at all? Probably means the end of xm855. |
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