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Posted: 9/12/2010 10:21:40 AM EDT
By Beth Lang

Do Men Really have Equal Rights?

It is a question I really never thought of until recently. It was just jast week, in fact, that I was sitting in a court room waiting for my 18 year old son’s hearing to end. He was taken to court to pay child support for a child he did not want and did not agree to have, who he was, in fact, tricked into fathering by a dishonest young woman. Unfortunately, he was the "winner" of the paternity test (We were told it could have been one of three boys). I told my son he wasn’t a winner at all, because being the winner of the DNA test he just lost everything that he doesn’t even have yet.

Image courtesy of MenZ Magazine

While waiting in the filled court room, I sat there alone with my thoughts and worries about what was about to happen. Since he is 18 years old, I wasn’t allowed to sit with him. He is considered an adult in the eyes of the court. An 18 year old boy with braces on his teeth, a sweet smile, and who still enjoys watching cartoons in the morning. As an adult, he is uneducated, underemployed, and naive enough to be duped by a pretty girl; damn, he doesn’t even have his driver’s license yet.

Millions of things were going through my head that day, but I was mainly thinking that I just wanted it to be over. Perhaps to escape, I was daydreaming about things I would rather be doing whenI heard his name being called.

And just like that the judge orders him to pay $759.46 per month plus $10,000 retro for the first year, plus court fees. I shook my head thinking I must have fallen asleep and was now in a nightmare. I had to gather myself together. I then whispered to an older man sitting beside me. “Did she just say $759.00 a month?” The man turned to me and said, “Yes, that dude must have a whole bunch of kids.”

Sitting there in a room full of strangers, all from different walks of life, I felt more helpless than I have ever felt before. I felt powerless to defend my child. I stood up quickly and yelled "wait a minute there must be a mistake," though I think I remember uttering some swear words in the process. I said,” this is wrong, how can this happen? “ My son only works part time if he is lucky. He hardly makes enough money to survive himself. Now he was just ordered to pay this much a month for a child he never agreed to have?

There was yelling from the bench and I was ordered to sit down and be quite. I continued to demand an explanation. The judge pounded her gavel on the bench and ordered me out of her court room. I turned to my son son and said, " let's go. " The judge shouted back at me, " He is not going anywhere- I am not done with him yet. He leaves when I tell him to leave." As two deputies were walking towards me, I replied to her, " You are more than done with him. He is coming with me. Go ahead and try to stop me." I looked at my son and he looked scared to death; not sure which one of us he should listen too.

Where are his rights?

A woman has the right to abort, adopt, or abandon her baby and there are no consequences for her decisions. A woman can have an abortion and no one can force her to keep the baby regardless of the father’s feelings. A woman is allowed to leave her baby in a safe place and walk away with no questions asked. A woman has the right to give her child up for adoption. It’s wonderful our country gives woman such liberties. I am a woman and I am grateful I have these rights.

Why aren’t men given these same rights?

Why are men forced to be fathers when they don’t want to be? Why are men forced to pay child support for a child they did not want to have? Why are men allowed to be tricked into being a father? Why are men being punished for having sex?

There are many women who have lied or tricked the man so she would get pregnant. Because she wants a baby to love her, and she wants someone else to pay for it. Where is the woman’s responsibility? Shouldn’t we, as women, be responsible for our own bodies? Shouldn't that come with all these rights we have? Shouldn't we be the ones to reap the consequences if we get pregnant while we are single? I hear it so often about unwed women saying they are against abortion for religious reasons. Well, what about them having sex before getting married? They weren’t thinking about God then- were they?

Feminism claims to promote the idea that women have the same equal rights as men.

From Wikipedia ~ In the subsequent decades women's rights again became an important issue in the English speaking world. By the 1960s the movement was called "feminism" or "women's liberation." Reformers wanted the same pay as men, equal rights in law, and the freedom to plan their families or not have children at all.

OK, if this is all about equality, then where are men’s reproductive rights?

I want to see CHANGE, and I am prepared to fight for it. We need equal rights to be equal for both men and women. The system is unfair. Furthermore, the ridiculously high child support orders on impoverished men in this country is a form of slavery. And that is exactly what the courts are doing to my young son. They are turning him into a slave- and allowing the woman who deceived him become his master- his owner.

Courts that are supposed to find just solutions are now the main cause of the problem. The child support orders not only set financial expectations too high to meet, but it also forces young men to become criminals, and some even commit suicide. We criminalizing an entire class of human beings, and ignoring the real criminals who are behind all this.

Women can get off their butts, put their children in daycare, and get a job.

As long as we have "My body, my choice," shouldn't we also have "my responsibility," as well?

Beth Lang is an American mother whose son was duped into becoming a father without his consent. Because of this, she has decided to dedicate her life to publicly challenging the corrupt system that enables the fraud. Her efforts to advocate on behalf of her son and all young men will be chronicled exclusively here, at avoiceformen.com.

All you young guys out there, be careful.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:24:21 AM EDT
You pays your money, you takes your chances.

No one has ever been forced into fatherhood that stuck their dick into the woman that became pregnant.


I think that men should have equal rights to children, but, that doesn't jive into today's society.

Roll the dice.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:29:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jimtash9:
By Beth Lang

tricked into fathering


so he didn't know where his dick was?

fuck the skanks, pay the price
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:30:51 AM EDT
She does raise a good point. If the mother can abort the child, why can the father not abort his parental responsibility?
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:31:30 AM EDT
While I can see the point shes making in a round about way, I agree with Skg_Mre_Lght.

The kids 18, he is an adult. Mommy doesn't need to be in court and she sure doesn't need to be in there acting like an ass.

Mom says he was duped by a dishonest woman. I wonder what that means. Did her little baby fall for the old "I'm on the pill" line? I've heard that too, but I didn't fall for it. Tell Jr. to wrap it up next time, and not "bust up in her" ala yesterdays thread.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:31:41 AM EDT
I can understand her outrage and there is more than enough proof about men being fucked over when it comes to courts/kids/divorce. Things need to change.

However, if you stick your unwrapped dick in a vagina, you're playing Russian Roulette.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

As the age old saying goes... "no glove, no love"
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:32:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 10:33:17 AM EDT by vim]
If females can make unilateral decisions to abort, then males should be able to make the same choice to walk away from the consequences of their sexual activity.

ETA: beaten by 2 minutes
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:34:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By vim:
If females can make unilateral decisions to abort, then males should be able to make the same choice to walk away from the consequences of their sexual activity.

ETA: beaten by 2 minutes


But you are bot 100% correct.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:36:42 AM EDT
We need a male birth control patch or implant.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:37:33 AM EDT
And this is the reason I don't sleep around. Getting layed is nice, but I would rather wack it and not worry about being a daddy or getting an STD. YMMV.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:37:46 AM EDT
I bet that Mommy wont have to tell him to wrap it up next time....he just learned a valuable lesson
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:40:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vim:
If females can make unilateral decisions to abort, then males should be able to make the same choice to walk away from the consequences of their sexual activity.

ETA: beaten by 2 minutes

I agree.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:40:24 AM EDT
She should have spent a couple extra days on moral responsibility...

Cause and effect probably would have been good too...
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:41:23 AM EDT
Men and women do both have equal rights.


Every time I hear a libtard arguing about a woman having choices it always ends with me agreeing. Her choice was to have sex or not to have sex. A males choice is to have sex or not to have sex. It is that simple. Her cute little boy that watches cartoons and has a part time job should have kept his dick in his pants and none of his problems would have existed. It may be blunt but it is the truth.

The only time I am sympathetic is in cases of rape or medical distress. It those cases the individual may not have had a choice.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:41:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ffsparky26:
We need a male birth control patch or implant.


{snip snip}
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:42:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:

Originally Posted By vim:
If females can make unilateral decisions to abort, then males should be able to make the same choice to walk away from the consequences of their sexual activity.

ETA: beaten by 2 minutes

I agree.


+5 (or whatever its up to now)
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:43:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
fuck the skanks, pay the price


That's true now, but throughout history it was on the skank to pay the price. Now the man pays the price and it's changing our culture. The skanks are empowered and have a free license to be a slut. Now that there are sluts everywhere, any average joe can be a womanizer. In the end, we will all pay the price –– living in a depraved society.

Man Woman Myth
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:43:43 AM EDT
what i have never understood ids the PRICE of child support.


It is both parents fault and unless the father wants custody he should have to pay for his child. The problem is the price. I make decent money but i buy my kids clothing at goodwill, we feed her good food and pay for her daycare.


daycare is 500 a month feeding her is probably 100 a month. clothing her is probably 20 dollars a month. doctor checkups are about 200 a year so well just add another 20 a month for that. diapers at first are aroun 50 a month.


so withe daycare we are at around 700 a month. therefore the father should not be paying more than 350 dollars a month for the child. Thhe inequality comes from the fact that men aren't paying child suport. they are paying WAY more than it costs for their half of raising a child. They are paing baby moma support.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:43:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:

Originally Posted By vim:
If females can make unilateral decisions to abort, then males should be able to make the same choice to walk away from the consequences of their sexual activity.

ETA: beaten by 2 minutes

I agree.


+2... And other for +3
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:44:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:

Originally Posted By vim:
If females can make unilateral decisions to abort, then males should be able to make the same choice to walk away from the consequences of their sexual activity.

ETA: beaten by 2 minutes

I agree.

I've used this position for years when arguing abortion with "It's my body" women. It usually shuts 'em up quick.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:48:00 AM EDT
There is a procedure, a procedure I am all too well aware of, that will fix that problem.

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:49:47 AM EDT
No Pity

Be a real man and keep it in your pants
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:52:19 AM EDT
I agree with her for the most part, and it's good to see a woman finally speaking up about this.

But this whole "my son was tricked" thing doesn't fly.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:55:00 AM EDT
If a slut can spread her legs and choose to kill, or let be adopted a child, and do whatever she wants regardless of what the man wants, a man should have every right to opt out of being responsible for the child, turnabout is fair play

Its bullshit if you say otherwise
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:56:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:

Originally Posted By vim:
If females can make unilateral decisions to abort, then males should be able to make the same choice to walk away from the consequences of their sexual activity.

ETA: beaten by 2 minutes

I agree.

I believe in that in VA, you can get out of child support by giving up all parental rights. Basically abandoning your child so you don't have to pay up. Not sure though.

What I do know is that I was seeing a girl about 8 years ago. She calls me up, says she preggers. I said I'm headed to Kuwait. See you later. She says she had an abortion. A while later I hear that she's had the kid and I figure I'm the dad. She's never hunted me down for CS payments. We still talk from time to time and she's with another guy who's adopted the kid. Not sure if that makes me douche bag or not.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:57:00 AM EDT
Mah baby didn't do nuffin'!


I don't have a lot of compassion for those who chose to make their own mistakes. Condoms aren't exactly the world's best kept secret.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:59:35 AM EDT
I know a nice guy, his wife was the skank you're railing on about!

She promised him she wouldn't get off the pill until he was finished with college. She lied and was later found to be bi-polar. End of his college career, end of that marriage. Some asshole women are using sex as a weapon and men are paying the price for it.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:59:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jimtash9:

He is considered an adult in the eyes of the court. An 18 year old boy with braces on his teeth, a sweet smile, and who still enjoys watching cartoons in the morning. As an adult, he is uneducated, underemployed, and naive enough to be duped by a pretty girl; damn, he doesn’t even have his driver’s license yet.

Congrats, you raised an ineffectual loser.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:00:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By c0t0d0s0:
She does raise a good point. If the mother can abort the child, why can the father not abort his parental responsibility?

Because you owe a debt and an obligation to society to care for the helpless child that you have created. You make a mess, you clean it up. You make a messy baby, you clean its ass for 18 years.

There are rights, and there are duties. When you have created a kid, your life no longer revolves around you. Walking away is abandonment.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:00:36 AM EDT
The "Virgils" come out in force in these threads. Guess it's something they've never had to worry about.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:00:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wingnutx:

Originally Posted By jimtash9:

He is considered an adult in the eyes of the court. An 18 year old boy with braces on his teeth, a sweet smile, and who still enjoys watching cartoons in the morning. As an adult, he is uneducated, underemployed, and naive enough to be duped by a pretty girl; damn, he doesn’t even have his driver’s license yet.

Congrats, you raised an ineffectual loser.


Yeah, you should have raised hm better and told him to wait
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:01:00 AM EDT
I think mommy raised a dumb kid, and didn't explain the bird's and bees to him. Interesting to note his dad isn't mentioned in that article. I bet his dad was shocked at the support he had to pay her for his son.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:01:50 AM EDT
Haha, sucks to be him.

You gotta pay to play.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:02:56 AM EDT
In regards to abortion, I have often asked the same question.

If abortion is a "reproductive right" and, courtsey of the 14th Amendment, both genders are entitled to equal protection under the law. Why aren't men granted this "reproductive right?"

Well, I think we know why...


(I am pro-life)
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:05:24 AM EDT
What may be a fantastic point is completely obscured in an article full of, "not MY baby!"
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:10:11 AM EDT
"My baby, didn't do nutin".

And for the system, we aint gonna do anything about it, it is driven by money, lawyers and judges.

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:14:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By reifiedbeans:

Originally Posted By c0t0d0s0:
She does raise a good point. If the mother can abort the child, why can the father not abort his parental responsibility?

Because you owe a debt and an obligation to society to care for the helpless child that you have created. You make a mess, you clean it up. You make a messy baby, you clean its ass for 18 years.

There are rights, and there are duties. When you have created a kid, your life no longer revolves around you. Walking away is abandonment.


Exactly.

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:15:09 AM EDT
At 18, you are old enough to vote, old enough to serve and possibly die for your country, and old enough to own up to being a father due to your irresponsibility and stupidity.

I hope the Fu––ing he gave was as good as the fu––ing he's going to get and I hope momma realizes part of it might be her fault for raising a BOY instead of a young man.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:17:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:
What may be a fantastic point is completely obscured in an article full of, "not MY baby!"


Exactly.

I don't know if you're thinking of the same point, but the amount of child support and how they decide it should take many more factors into account.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:20:19 AM EDT
Time for kiddo to go and get a job...

That being said, the current sliding scale of how much child support father's pay is BS. They need to figure out how much it costs to reasonably feed, cloth, and house a child for a given locality and 1/2 of that should be the father's responsibility. That should be the maximum payment for all cases regardless of fathers income, the only changes to that should be reductions if the father's income is very low. Mama can work too.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:22:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 11:24:38 AM EDT by drake1]
Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By reifiedbeans:

Originally Posted By c0t0d0s0:
She does raise a good point. If the mother can abort the child, why can the father not abort his parental responsibility?

Because you owe a debt and an obligation to society to care for the helpless child that you have created. You make a mess, you clean it up. You make a messy baby, you clean its ass for 18 years.

There are rights, and there are duties. When you have created a kid, your life no longer revolves around you. Walking away is abandonment.


Exactly.



This is a fallacy though. Before child support, men would still take care of their children, and women would be wholesome, humble, and loyal. After child support, women now have a slave whip. The state, through financial control, is completely distorting and corrupting male-female relationships.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:27:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mr_Harry:
No Pity

Be a real man and keep it in your pants


this
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:31:23 AM EDT
The reason why the boy got screwed over, and the mother got seemingly great treatment is because they didn't factor into the decision. The court will always decided in favor of what is in the best interest of the child. Sometimes that means the parents (really, the father) gets screwed over. The reasoning is that it is preferential for the father to be screwed financially then the child.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:32:15 AM EDT

Wrap your pecker. The system is flawed so it's up to the man to protect himself. Anything else is just irresponsible.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:35:04 AM EDT
<clap> <clap> <clap>

Congratulations, ladies.

The monster you have created for the last few decades of a society that damns and condemns men is now turning its teeth upon your sons.

Watch. Watch while this beast you have fostered destroys the lives of the sons you love.

Watch, and know, that it was you who created the cage, you who created the beast, and your ideals that snowballed into a society of youths run sexually amuck who, but by following the very ideals you once promoted and perpetuated, now find themselves in that very cage, with that very beast.

Your sentence is to watch your beast, created by your ideals, destroy your sons.

Enjoy the show.

(Women reading this who know it doesn't apply to them need not respond in protest –– you know exactly who this is targeting, and that it is not you)

_MaH
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:38:36 AM EDT
It's a sad situation but better he than I to pay for the sustenance of the child that sprang from his loins.

I have the distinct feeling that others who have absolutely nothing to do with the birth of that child will be involuntarily "chipping in" in the future to support it.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:38:49 AM EDT
This is a really tricky subject. And I KNOW I'll get blasted, but here goes...

First, YES, he had the choice to not fuck her, or to wear a condom. He made bad choices. Better choices would have completely avoided the situation. (Of course, she had the same options, not only with him, but the other guys who were tested.) But the deed has been done...

This woman DOES raise an interesting argument about rights. (I am anti-abortion, but that is irrelevant here. My beliefs are not law, and abortion is legal.) As a woman, if I find myself pregnant, I can choose to have the baby and keep it, have the baby and give it up for adoption, have the baby and drop it off in a safe place (ABANDON it), or have an abortion. The sperm donor has ONE option: wait to see what I decide to do, and then if I decide to keep it, he finds out how much he has to pay me every month for the next 18 years (or maybe even longer, if I get a good lawyer and my offspring chooses to become a professional student...)

It's fucked either way. The WOMAN decides whether she wants to be a parent or not, and makes her choice. The MAN has no say. Even if he WANTS the baby, she can abort it because it is her body. And if he doesn't, he's still held financially responsible. It doesn't matter if it was a one night stand, or a long term relationship. It doesn't matter if the woman intentionally mislead him about fertility/birth control. HE IS ON THE HOOK AT HER WHIM, while she has so many options out. I'm not saying that every man should be off scot free, but I do think there needs to be some accountability on the part of the female, too. The kid in this article wasn't off "busting it" in every ho he could lay –– he was the lucky winner of several possibles. That girl is a slut, and now she gets a nice fat check from the baby daddy every month, plus a huge back settlement, plus now that she's a single mom, she's eligible for all kinds of bennies off the gov't teat. Where's HER incentive to keep her legs closed or use a condom?!?

And then, for the love of God, where do some of these child support amounts come from?!?!? If the father is financially responsible, he should only be 50% responsible, and some of these ridiculous amounts are obviously "baby momma support" or even just punitive, as well as child support. Frankly, by forcing people to pay amounts well beyond their means, we also force them to become "dead beat dads". There are a lot of cases where they are perpetually behind, not because they DON'T pay, but because they CAN'T. Then it comes out of their wages, and they can no longer pay their rent, they lose their vehicles, etc., costing them the ability to work, and therefore fall even FARTHER behind. Where the hell is this obviously immature kid going to find $10 K in back support? Plus keep up with $700+ a month in current support? I guess the court system will love seeing him again when he gets busted for turning to drug dealing or other criminal activity to pay his debt... Desperate people do desperate things...

If I had my way, I'd be home during the day taking care of the house and in the kitchen cooking supper in heels and a dress every night. (I DO, to the extent our schedules permit.) I never was a Women's Libber. I miss the hell out of Leave It to Beaver, and think our country has had a downward spiral since we've earned our equal rights. (But again, that's just me.) But with sex as with race, equal should mean EQUAL. A person is not "more equal" just because he is not white, and a woman, just because she happens to house the baby factory, should not be "more equal" than a man, but that's the way it is. "I want to be EQUAL... until it suits me better the other way..."

It's bullshit, and it needs to be addressed: both the pregnant woman holding the man's future hostage, as well as the courts making insane decisions like this. (Hell, I'd rather be ass-raped by a pack of mules than be a man going to paternity/child support/divorce court. I don't know how y'all do it! I know it doesn't ALWAYS happen - my case was just the opposite, I got screwed in spite of being abused, but I know that's far from the norm.)

In an attempt to be fair, we have tipped the scales WAY too far on one side. But then, we seem to be getting good at that...
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:40:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 11:44:24 AM EDT by flpickupman]
I'm just amazed that someone employed part time was ordered to pay almost $800 a month in addition to $10,000 in back child support.

I work full time making decent money and I couldn't afford that.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:42:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By reifiedbeans:

Originally Posted By c0t0d0s0:
She does raise a good point. If the mother can abort the child, why can the father not abort his parental responsibility?

Because you owe a debt and an obligation to society to care for the helpless child that you have created. You make a mess, you clean it up. You make a messy baby, you clean its ass for 18 years.

There are rights, and there are duties. When you have created a kid, your life no longer revolves around you. Walking away is abandonment.


So a woman walking away from her commitment(via abortion or adoption) is "A OK". But if a man is tricked or lied too("love" does weird things to a mans body and mind) he has zero say whatsoever?

Sure sounds like equal rights to me.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:44:27 AM EDT
mhoffman––––––––––WHAT can I add? Nothing! You stated it clearly. You hit the proverbial nail on the head. Thank you!
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:44:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By drake1:
Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By reifiedbeans:

Originally Posted By c0t0d0s0:
She does raise a good point. If the mother can abort the child, why can the father not abort his parental responsibility?

Because you owe a debt and an obligation to society to care for the helpless child that you have created. You make a mess, you clean it up. You make a messy baby, you clean its ass for 18 years.

There are rights, and there are duties. When you have created a kid, your life no longer revolves around you. Walking away is abandonment.


Exactly.



This is a fallacy though. Before child support, men would still take care of their children, and women would be wholesome, humble, and loyal. After child support, women now have a slave whip. The state, through financial control, is completely distorting and corrupting male-female relationships.


Yup, that is true. Men would not tolerate other men not taking responsibility. They would essentially shame them into supporting their family.
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