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Posted: 9/12/2010 8:59:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2010 6:41:45 AM EDT by makabi24]

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 9:15:02 AM EDT
In before the enraged appologists
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 9:18:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 9:22:11 AM EDT by Shung]
blinding truth !
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 9:28:20 AM EDT
That cartoon really hits the nail on the head.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 9:35:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By makabi24:
If Muslims here are so anti-"other Muslims", and they are sooooooooo BIG on gatherings and protests, why not protest your "other Muslim" brothers that are making you look bad?

Technically, the Muslims did have an anti-terrorist protest gathering in New York or something. I've only heard of it happening once, though, and that was a while ago. Frankly, I don't give them a whole lot of credit for that. If they were for real, they would be having a protest every single fucking day somewhere in the US, and twice a day in every single middle eastern country. Funny how they don't, though. You ask me, their actions speak louder then their words.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 9:47:59 AM EDT
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 9:56:45 AM EDT
I think this guys has a bit to add:

Geert Wilder
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:00:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.



Yep

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:14:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.



What was the line in A Man for All Seasons? Thomas Moore argued silence connoted acquiescence.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:18:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.



Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:21:02 AM EDT
Is it not written that it is ok to lie to enemies of islam?

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.





Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:23:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Is it not written that it is ok to lie to enemies of islam?

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.







ok then where are all the "Non-American" muslims that do not support the evil things that terorist's do
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:23:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.


Where are the public rallies? Why are they not on the airways 24/7 condeming the terrorists? A statement is great, but where is the public, open and passionate condemnation of radical Islam?

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:24:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Is it not written that it is ok to lie to enemies of islam?

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.






Its all a giant Islamic conspiracy, eh?

Needs more tinfoil
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:26:06 AM EDT
don't get me wrong. I do believe that most Muslims are good people. No different than any other group. But..................the community as a whole is very quiet on the issue.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:27:03 AM EDT
You have active participation, passive assent, and complete revulsion.

10% - 25% - 10%
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:29:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 10:37:56 AM EDT by brickeyee]
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Is it not written that it is ok to lie to enemies of islam?

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.






Its all a giant Islamic conspiracy, eh?

Needs more tinfoil


NO, the large masses of Muslims who claim to abhor what is being done in the name of their religion need to actually do something.

Not sit in the safe USA and issue statements, but actually pressure their fellow Muslims to recognize that the radical fringe is going to poison it for all.

Originally Posted By Ahiodsohi:

Originally Posted By makabi24:
If Muslims here are so anti-"other Muslims", and they are sooooooooo BIG on gatherings and protests, why not protest your "other Muslim" brothers that are making you look bad?

Technically, the Muslims did have an anti-terrorist protest gathering in New York or something. I've only heard of it happening once, though, and that was a while ago. Frankly, I don't give them a whole lot of credit for that. If they were for real, they would be having a protest every single fucking day somewhere in the US, and twice a day in every single middle eastern country. Funny how they don't, though. You ask me, their actions speak louder then their words.


It is not "their actions" that speak louder, but the INaction.

They want to pronounce that these Islam is being hijacked, but have failed to take any real action to prevent the hijacking.


The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.


Probable misattribution to Edmund Burke, but still an excellent comment.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:33:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a community they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.





Well that settles it with the committees and associations coming out against it we need not have the rank and file say anything. Besides the committees and associations are covered by Al-taqiyya. Lying to the infidel is permissible, even honorable in Islam.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:36:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gotigers:
don't get me wrong. I do believe that most Muslims are good people. No different than any other group. But..................the community as a whole is very quiet on the issue.


To speak out against your brother or sister is to risk bringing a Fatwa down on your head. Thus it is with street gangs. Damn, I meant Islam.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:37:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Is it not written that it is ok to lie to enemies of islam?

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.






Its all a giant Islamic conspiracy, eh?

Needs more tinfoil


NO, the large masses of Muslims who claim to abhor what is being done in the name of their religion need to actually do something.

Not sit in the safe USA and issue statements, but actually pressure their fellow Muslims to recognize that the radical fringe is going to poison it for all.


And how do normal everyday american muslims "pressure the radical fringe" that's half a world away?

How come the Christians haven't "pressure the radical fringe" of the WBC to stop their antics?


Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:38:05 AM EDT
As keep trying to explain to folks...

If a man believes he has dominion over you, granted from a superior authority, to the extent that he may kill you, lying and deceiving you is nothing to him.

He need to change the way we understand Islam and fast.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:41:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 10:42:16 AM EDT by brickeyee]
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Is it not written that it is ok to lie to enemies of islam?

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.






Its all a giant Islamic conspiracy, eh?

Needs more tinfoil


NO, the large masses of Muslims who claim to abhor what is being done in the name of their religion need to actually do something.

Not sit in the safe USA and issue statements, but actually pressure their fellow Muslims to recognize that the radical fringe is going to poison it for all.


And how do normal everyday american muslims "pressure the radical fringe" that's half a world away?

How come the Christians haven't "pressure the radical fringe" of the WBC to stop their antics?




WBC?

No idea who that is (it stands for many groups).

Huge pressure was brought to stop the Koran burning, but we are a free society.

It is not for us to figure out how to control the nut jobs, but the other members of Islam to take action.

Except it often appears they at least tacitly support what is going on.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:42:00 AM EDT
Lol at the foolish comparison b/t WBC and our enemy.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:42:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 10:49:35 AM EDT by Kaygee]
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Is it not written that it is ok to lie to enemies of islam?

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.






Its all a giant Islamic conspiracy, eh?

Needs more tinfoil


NO, the large masses of Muslims who claim to abhor what is being done in the name of their religion need to actually do something.

Not sit in the safe USA and issue statements, but actually pressure their fellow Muslims to recognize that the radical fringe is going to poison it for all.


And how do normal everyday american muslims "pressure the radical fringe" that's half a world away?

How come the Christians haven't "pressure the radical fringe" of the WBC to stop their antics?






www.patriotguard.org

WBC: shout slogans at funerals
Islamists: fly passenger jets into skyscrapers, bomb nightclubs, apartment blocks and public transport networks, storm schools and rape, machinegun and incinerate hundreds of children, saw prisoners heads off with penknives, fire rockets into civilian areas whilst praying to allah that it kills lots of people, kidnap a 3 year old girl and crush her skull between a rock and a rifle butt, treat women worse than a piece of shit under their boot and murder them for trying to flee arranged marriages, violently invade the west on dozens of occasions, demand the entire world converts to islam and thens of thousands more that I dont have the time to type out.

Yeah, the two are totally alike...
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:43:47 AM EDT
What most people fail to realize is that lying or trying to "fool" the infidel is only permissible if your life is in immediate danger. There have been OPEN statements made about radical Islam by imams all over the country. The media simply does not cover them.

A few days ago, at the Eid prayer in Milwaukee, the imam said that terrorists and radicals are NOT muslims. Muslims have nothing to do with these people because they have their own agenda, yet they claim they do it for their own fucked up version of what Islam is. So the public lumps all Muslims together. Simple as that.

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:44:17 AM EDT
They ALL adhere to the same ideology.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:46:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

[snip]

And how do normal everyday american muslims "pressure the radical fringe" that's half a world away?

How come the Christians haven't "pressure the radical fringe" of the WBC to stop their antics?




You're joking, right?

First, we have and continue to do so. WBC knows they are not welcome at churches, funerals, and most decent communities in this country.

Next, tell me, how many people have the WBC wackos killed? It's not a Christian thing, it's a free speech issue. WBC engages in lawful free speech. We may not like that speech but it is protected. And I don't believe words kill, deeds do. Muslims, on the other hand, have gone beyond speech and continue to do so because our leaders believe they can be appeased.

Your comparisons between Islam and Christianity, on any level, will fail.

I don't know what your angle is here, but you won't be spared should they realize their end game. If the entire world was an Islamic state, then factions would being killing each other. Just as they have in the ME for generations...
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:50:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Lol at the foolish comparison b/t WBC and our enemy.

LOL at people that can't understand that Islam is not one giant uniform group.

A close parallel would be black people. (This is not meant to be racist, settle down)

All the good hard working black people still face prejudices because of the portion of their population that's into the "thug culture"

Why aren't successful black people constantly apologizing for the murders and crimes that the thug portion of their race constantly commit? Maybe its because they consider themselves to be a separate entity all together?

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:53:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Lol at the foolish comparison b/t WBC and our enemy.

LOL at people that can't understand that Islam is not one giant uniform group.

A close parallel would be black people. (This is not meant to be racist, settle down)

All the good hard working black people still face prejudices because of the portion of their population that's into the "thug culture"

Why aren't successful black people constantly apologizing for the murders and crimes that the thug portion of their race constantly commit? Maybe its because they consider themselves to be a separate entity all together?






Gangbangers dont tend to scream out "FOR DR KING AND THE BLACK RACE!!!" before they do a drive by shooting on the rival gang.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:54:34 AM EDT
Yes, i tire of the nightly news reports of Black people strapping on bombs and killing 3k American citizens with a terror attack. You have convinced me.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:55:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Lol at the foolish comparison b/t WBC and our enemy.

LOL at people that can't understand that Islam is not one giant uniform group.

A close parallel would be black people. (This is not meant to be racist, settle down)

All the good hard working black people still face prejudices because of the portion of their population that's into the "thug culture"

Why aren't successful black people constantly apologizing for the murders and crimes that the thug portion of their race constantly commit? Maybe its because they consider themselves to be a separate entity all together?



Again with the comparison fail!

Islam is not a race or a subculture. It is a religious, political, social, and economic system. The likes of which, Americans haven't seen or understood because we don't have such a system here (nor have we ever).
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:57:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skip237:
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

[snip]

And how do normal everyday american muslims "pressure the radical fringe" that's half a world away?

How come the Christians haven't "pressure the radical fringe" of the WBC to stop their antics?




You're joking, right?

First, we have and continue to do so. WBC knows they are not welcome at churches, funerals, and most decent communities in this country.

Next, tell me, how many people have the WBC wackos killed? It's not a Christian thing, it's a free speech issue. WBC engages in lawful free speech. We may not like that speech but it is protected. And I don't believe words kill, deeds do. Muslims, on the other hand, have gone beyond speech and continue to do so because our leaders believe they can be appeased.

Your comparisons between Islam and Christianity, on any level, will fail.

I don't know what your angle is here, but you won't be spared should they realize their end game. If the entire world was an Islamic state, then factions would being killing each other. Just as they have in the ME for generations...


Don't argue with retards.

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:58:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Yes, i tire of the nightly news reports of Black people strapping on bombs and killing 3k American citizens with a terror attack. You have convinced me.

The Muslims are killing 3k Americans nightly now?


Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:59:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:


Don't argue with retards.


You never did reply to my IM....
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:00:08 AM EDT
I pity you, that you have forgotten.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:00:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 11:09:26 AM EDT by nukldragr]
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.


Now they need to take that and drown out the Radicals, but they don't


Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:01:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Is it not written that it is ok to lie to enemies of islam?

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.






Its all a giant Islamic conspiracy, eh?

Needs more tinfoil


need to actually study Koran
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:02:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 11:03:09 AM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:


Don't argue with retards.





You never did reply to my IM....

I trashed it without reading it.

GFY and ESAD 'tardo.





Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:03:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Originally Posted By gotigers:
don't get me wrong. I do believe that most Muslims are good people. No different than any other group. But..................the community as a whole is very quiet on the issue.


To speak out against your brother or sister is to risk bringing a Fatwa down on your head. Thus it is with street gangs. Damn, I meant Islam.


This is actually the truth, sadly. I lived in a Muslim country (Indonesia) for 14 years and I can attest that most Mulims (over in Indonesia, anyway) are not barbaric people. The problem is, they are affraid of the fundamentalist gangs that run amok amongst them. If a good Muslim dared to speak out against those fundamentalist thugs, the later would come to the good Muslim's dwelling at night with machetes, sickles and other sharp / pointy objects and dismember the whole family and burn the house down just to make an example out of that good Muslim. Keep in mind that most people in the rest of the world do not have ammo forts, pistols, shotguns, rifles, body armors, NVGs just like we free citizens do, so it's kind of harder for them to defend themselves and families against numerically superior, heavily armed home invaders. Just imagine you (no guns) and your wife and two small children facing 15 home invaders in the middle of the night armed with big knives, spears, machetes, what have you - I think your chance of winning that confrontation is rather small, indeed.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:04:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Is it not written that it is ok to lie to enemies of islam?

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.






Its all a giant Islamic conspiracy, eh?

Needs more tinfoil


Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."

There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"

Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit. If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.



From the Hadith:



Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).



Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.



Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."



Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.



From Islamic Law:



Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...



"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie.

Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them. The two forms are:



Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true.



Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."



Though not called Taqiyya by name, Muhammad clearly used deception when he signed a 10-year treaty with the Meccans that allowed him access to their city while he secretly prepared his own forces for a takeover. The unsuspecting residents were conquered in easy fashion after he broke the treaty two years later, and some of the people in the city who had trusted him at his word were executed.



Another example of lying is when Muhammad used deception to trick his personal enemies into letting down their guard and exposing themselves to slaughter by pretending to seek peace. This happened in the case of Ka'b bin al-Ashraf (as previously noted) and again later against Usayr ibn Zarim, a surviving leader of the Banu Nadir tribe, which had been evicted from their home in Medina by the Muslims.



At the time, Usayr ibn Zarim was attempting to gather an armed force against the Muslims from among a tribe allied with the Quraish (against which Muhammad had already declared war). Muhammad's "emissaries" went to ibn Zarim and persuaded him to leave his safe haven on the pretext of meeting with the prophet of Islam in Medina to discuss peace. Once vulnerable, the leader and his thirty companions were massacred by the Muslims with ease, belying the probability that they were mostly unarmed, having been given a guarantee of safe passage (Ibn Ishaq 981).



Such was the reputation of Muslims for lying and then killing that even those who "accepted Islam" did not feel entirely safe. The fate of the Jadhima is tragic evidence for this. When Muslim "missionaries" approached their tribe one of the members insisted that they would be slaughtered even though they had already "converted" to Islam to avoid just such a demise. However, the others were convinced that they could trust the Muslim leader's promise that they would not be harmed if they simply offered no resistance. (After convincing the skeptic to lay down his arms, the unarmed men of the tribe were quickly tied up and beheaded - Ibn Ishaq 834 & 837).



Today's Muslims often try to justify Muhammad's murder of poets and others who criticized him at Medina by saying that they broke a treaty by their actions. Yet, these same apologists place little value on treaties broken by Muslims. From Muhammad to Saddam Hussein, promises made to non-Muslim are distinctly non-binding in the Muslim mindset.



Leaders in the Arab world routinely say one thing to English-speaking audiences and then something entirely different to their own people in Arabic. Yassir Arafat was famous for telling Western newspapers about his desire for peace with Israel, then turning right around and whipping Palestinians into a hateful and violent frenzy against Jews.



The 9/11 hijackers practiced deception by going into bars and drinking alcohol, thus throwing off potential suspicion that they were fundamentalists plotting jihad. This effort worked so well, in fact, that even weeks after 9/11, John Walsh, the host of a popular American television show, said that their bar trips were evidence of 'hypocrisy.'



The transmission from Flight 93 records the hijackers telling their doomed passengers that there is "a bomb on board" but that everyone will "be safe" as long as "their demands are met." Obviously none of these things were true, but these men, who were so intensely devoted to Islam that they were willing to "slay and be slain for the cause of Allah" (as the Qur'an puts it) saw nothing wrong with employing Taqiyya in order to facilitate their mission of mass murder.



The near absence of Qur'anic verse and reliable Hadith that encourage truthfulness is somewhat surprising, given that many Muslims are convinced that their religion teaches honesty. In fact, it is because of this ingrained belief that many Muslims are quite honest. When lying is addressed in the Qur'an, it is nearly always in reference to the "lies against Allah" - referring to the Jews and Christians who rejected Muhammad's claim to being a prophet.



Finally, the circumstances by which Muhammad allowed a believer to lie are limited to those that either advance the cause of Islam or enable a Muslim to avoid harm to his well-being (and presumably that of other Muslims as well). Although this should be kept very much in mind when dealing with matters of global security, such as Iran's nuclear intentions, it is not grounds for assuming that the Muslim one might personally encounter on the street or in the workplace is any less honest than anyone else.

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:04:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:


Don't argue with retards.


You never did reply to my IM....

I trashed it without reading it.

GFY and ESAD 'tardo.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Patriotguard.JPG/800px-Patriotguard.JPG



LOL, you're the biggest tool on this site.

Boo hoo, sorry you got so butt hurt you couldn't read a reply.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:06:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Is it not written that it is ok to lie to enemies of islam?

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.






Its all a giant Islamic conspiracy, eh?

Needs more tinfoil


NO, the large masses of Muslims who claim to abhor what is being done in the name of their religion need to actually do something.

Not sit in the safe USA and issue statements, but actually pressure their fellow Muslims to recognize that the radical fringe is going to poison it for all.


And how do normal everyday american muslims "pressure the radical fringe" that's half a world away?

How come the Christians haven't "pressure the radical fringe" of the WBC to stop their antics?


How did a retarded hick in Florida pressure Islamics to riot and get killed in Afghanistan?????

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:07:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ryanschmidt65:
What most people fail to realize is that lying or trying to "fool" the infidel is only permissible if your life is in immediate danger. There have been OPEN statements made about radical Islam by imams all over the country. The media simply does not cover them.

A few days ago, at the Eid prayer in Milwaukee, the imam said that terrorists and radicals are NOT muslims. Muslims have nothing to do with these people because they have their own agenda, yet they claim they do it for their own fucked up version of what Islam is. So the public lumps all Muslims together. Simple as that.



Then this shit needs to get airtime and if the MSM wont cover it take those commie fucks to task. It's almost like they want us to turn on each other.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:09:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:


Don't argue with retards.





You never did reply to my IM....

I trashed it without reading it.

GFY and ESAD 'tardo.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Patriotguard.JPG/800px-Patriotguard.JPG



LOL, you're the biggest tool on this site.

Boo hoo, sorry you got so butt hurt you couldn't read a reply.


Tools are meant to be used, and you're the one being used.

Wake the fuck up!

If you want to help surrender America to Islam, maybe you should spend some time in the ME first to understand what you are advocating.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:11:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By hkhamartia:
Is it not written that it is ok to lie to enemies of islam?

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By gotigers:
I dont blame all Muslims. But................

the Muslim community's lack of open condemnation of the Islamist's terrorism leads me to fear in some way as a communty they tacitly support the activities of the radicals.


In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.






Its all a giant Islamic conspiracy, eh?

Needs more tinfoil


NO, the large masses of Muslims who claim to abhor what is being done in the name of their religion need to actually do something.

Not sit in the safe USA and issue statements, but actually pressure their fellow Muslims to recognize that the radical fringe is going to poison it for all.


And how do normal everyday american muslims "pressure the radical fringe" that's half a world away?

How come the Christians haven't "pressure the radical fringe" of the WBC to stop their antics?




Troll!! Give a fucking rest!!!
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:15:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skip237:
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

[snip]

And how do normal everyday american muslims "pressure the radical fringe" that's half a world away?

How come the Christians haven't "pressure the radical fringe" of the WBC to stop their antics?




You're joking, right?

First, we have and continue to do so. WBC knows they are not welcome at churches, funerals, and most decent communities in this country.

Next, tell me, how many people have the WBC wackos killed? It's not a Christian thing, it's a free speech issue. WBC engages in lawful free speech. We may not like that speech but it is protected. And I don't believe words kill, deeds do. Muslims, on the other hand, have gone beyond speech and continue to do so because our leaders believe they can be appeased.

Your comparisons between Islam and Christianity, on any level, will fail.

I don't know what your angle is here, but you won't be spared should they realize their end game. If the entire world was an Islamic state, then factions would being killing each other. Just as they have in the ME for generations...

We also make WBC members keep their butts on the sidewalk 200 yards up the street. Bikers rev their engines so that the noise of their shenanigans is drowned out. In public speeches we question their intentions and say anything possible that might ruin their credibility.

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:16:14 AM EDT
I posted it before but google Thomas Jefferson and the Muslims or pirates and read up on it if you haven't before

I understand the conflict if thousands of years old but in more recent history the Muslims have attacked and even enslaved Americans without provocation

America was founded by God believing men under those principles, like it or not that's the truth

Now these Muslims come here and demand that we Americans bend to them, or else............not the other way around

And they call this outreach ?!!!
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:16:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skip237:
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:


Don't argue with retards.


You never did reply to my IM....

I trashed it without reading it.

GFY and ESAD 'tardo.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Patriotguard.JPG/800px-Patriotguard.JPG



LOL, you're the biggest tool on this site.

Boo hoo, sorry you got so butt hurt you couldn't read a reply.


Tools are meant to be used, and you're the one being used.

Wake the fuck up!

If you want to help surrender America to Islam, maybe you should spend some time in the ME first to understand what you are advocating.

I wouldn't recommend that for that tardo.

He's the type who'd go RebelGray in an instant.



Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:17:08 AM EDT
Crap, probably too late to be in before apologists, however I'll try nonetheless.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:20:16 AM EDT
So does anyone in this thread actually know a muslim besides me?

I'm guessing no.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:20:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Crap, probably too late to be in before apologists, however I'll try nonetheless.


Better late than never Kafir
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