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Posted: 9/7/2010 11:00:05 AM EDT
Which to buy and why?
Decisions decisions!
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:03:21 AM EDT
If you have the funds, get the HK. It will hold its' value better and will have all HK parts.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:04:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:08:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By myfakename:
If you have the funds, get the HK. It will hold its' value better and will have all HK parts.


From what I hear the PTR is made and looks a lot better then the old Hk's.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:09:21 AM EDT
A summary of the G3 vs FAL is:

-FAL: Easy to assemble out of hard (read: Expensive) to manufacture parts
-G3: Hard to assemble out of easy (read: Cheap) to manufacture parts

Thus, a good G3 (or clone) must be assembled by a gunsmith or factory that knows exactly how to do it. I'm not accusing the PTR of anything since I don't know much about their process, but the '90s and early '00s saw a rash of poorly assembled G3 & CETME clones that caused all sorts of fail...

My own recommendation is to try one out before you buy either. Regardless of quality, they are love/hate guns with little room in between.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:10:14 AM EDT
Think of a sewing machine that shoots .308
That's a G3.
LOVE the way that thing feels!

Ohhhhh...to have a PSG1
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:10:43 AM EDT
The PTR has a thicker barrel and cheaper furniture,supposedly has better accuracy. Mine has many parts that are stamped with HK. A real HK is really expensive 2 or 3 times what a PTR costs. Whatever you get send it to Williams Trigger Specialties in Illinois for trigger work, the stock trigger is about 9-10 pounds with a ridiculous amount of travel before it breaks. Mine now breaks at 2.5, and less if I set the trigger.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:11:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sixnine:
The PTR has a thicker barrel and cheaper furniture,supposedly has better accuracy. Mine has many parts that are stamped with HK. A real HK is really expensive 2 or 3 times what a PTR costs. Whatever you get send it to Williams Trigger Specialties in Illinois for trigger work, the stock trigger is about 9-10 pounds with a ridiculous amount of travel before it breaks. Mine now breaks at 2.5, and less if I set the trigger.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Yes. The trigger is quite bad.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:12:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sixnine:
The PTR has a thicker barrel and cheaper furniture,supposedly has better accuracy. Mine has many parts that are stamped with HK. A real HK is really expensive 2 or 3 times what a PTR costs. Whatever you get send it to Williams Trigger Specialties in Illinois for trigger work, the stock trigger is about 9-10 pounds with a ridiculous amount of travel before it breaks. Mine now breaks at 2.5, and less if I set the trigger.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


IBTAD

In Before The Accidental Discharges
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:13:02 AM EDT
If you have the $$, H&K.

The new production PTR's all have the cheaped out plastic lower... which keeps me from buying one. A plastic lower on a G3 variant is criminal.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:13:18 AM EDT
I just am unsure if the real HK is worth the extra cost. I have been liquidating my collection of firearms I do not use much to buy a nice toy for myself. I have read that the PTR is a very nice gun and accurate though. The CETME is out of the question, I will not own a Century Arms weapon.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:14:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By myfakename:
If you have the funds, get the HK. It will hold its' value better and will have all HK parts.


yup
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:15:14 AM EDT
the 91 is great all around, the ptr i know very little, they look nice BUT looks ain't everything.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:25:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 11:33:52 AM EDT by tommyrich]
If you have the money to spend go ahead and get a HK, but you will be just as pleased with a PTR and have cash left over,

That said, I don't know about the newer PTR's with the tupperware lower but the older(i.e. steel lower) PTR's are GTG (mines in the 3xxx range serial #).

I have both and when I feel like shooting G3 goodness I shoot the PTR. ymmv, just my .02

btw, if I had it to do over I would have bought a DSA FAL instead of the HK91, but now that I have it I'm not giving it up

eta: Here's the PTR (JLD). Originally had green furniture, added rail capable forend, changed grip and added ACE folding stock.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:28:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Originally Posted By sixnine:
The PTR has a thicker barrel and cheaper furniture,supposedly has better accuracy. Mine has many parts that are stamped with HK. A real HK is really expensive 2 or 3 times what a PTR costs. Whatever you get send it to Williams Trigger Specialties in Illinois for trigger work, the stock trigger is about 9-10 pounds with a ridiculous amount of travel before it breaks. Mine now breaks at 2.5, and less if I set the trigger.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


IBTAD

In Before The Accidental Discharges


Actually the williams set trigger is pretty nice, not sure about 2.5lbs but the regular pull is pretty nice. If you use the "set" feature it gets down to ounces... But then again its fairly hard to accidentally "set" it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:29:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
Think of a sewing machine that shoots .308
That's a G3.
LOVE the way that thing feels!

Ohhhhh...to have a PSG1


Not if you had to carry it
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:32:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 11:33:35 AM EDT by bullyforyou]


PTR (well, JLD at the time) bought the TDP and tooling for the 91 from the portuguese government, who had bought the TDP and tooling for the 91's/G3's from HK. the PTR furniture does feel much cheaper though.

if i was buying for the purpose of "collecting", i'd go HK all the way. if i was buying because i wanted a good gun to shoot, i'd buy a PTR, and sink some cash into original HK furniture.


Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:32:58 AM EDT
THe new PTR's have polymer lowers patterned after the H&K "Navy" contract rifles. This polymer lower is tough and doesn't take away at all from the overall quality of the gun IMHO.

Additionally, the front handguard on the PTR's are now machined from aluminum and look good and are stout. A marked improvement over the cheaper plastic ones they used to put out.

My only real gripe with the PTR is the weight of the barrel. It is heavy, and the aluminum fore-end exacerbates the muzzle heaviness.

All-in-all I love mine. It is a HUGE step up from a CAI CETME.




- AG
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:36:29 AM EDT
Very nice looking rifle! Same with the above poster!
Maybe ARF can school me on this but what is the difference between a G3 and a HK91? A buddy of mine has a REAL G3 forsale and it looks nice but I do not know what the difference is.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:38:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By starjammir:
Very nice looking rifle! Same with the above poster!
Maybe ARF can school me on this but what is the difference between a G3 and a HK91? A buddy of mine has a REAL G3 forsale and it looks nice but I do not know what the difference is.


I've always used the terms interchangeably... It is my understanding that "G3" is just the military moniker for the HK91. Like the "G1" was the FN-FAL... I could be wrong though.

- AG
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:47:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 11:49:43 AM EDT by TheStig]


My PTR-91k - older model but it shoots flawlessly.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:50:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheStig:
http://meat-popsicle.com/MrShadow/toys/shh_ptr.jpg

My PTR-91k - older model but it shoots flawlessly.


that bipod is that on there?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:51:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 11:52:11 AM EDT by DriftPunch]
Originally Posted By Aggie_Gunner:
Originally Posted By starjammir:
Very nice looking rifle! Same with the above poster!
Maybe ARF can school me on this but what is the difference between a G3 and a HK91? A buddy of mine has a REAL G3 forsale and it looks nice but I do not know what the difference is.


I've always used the terms interchangeably... It is my understanding that "G3" is just the military moniker for the HK91. Like the "G1" was the FN-FAL... I could be wrong though.

- AG


G3 is the proper name for the military rifle. HK 91, 93, 94, whatever... is the name given for the HK produced imports (and possible German exports to other countries), be they semi or not. The Portugese produced semi imports were called the G3S. The Greek ones were probably called something else...

The G1 was the name given to the Belgian produced FAL in German service. FN denied Germany a license to produce the FAL, which was motivation to re-grab the CETME and modify it slightly into the G3.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:53:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
Originally Posted By TheStig:
http://meat-popsicle.com/MrShadow/toys/shh_ptr.jpg

My PTR-91k - older model but it shoots flawlessly.


that bipod is that on there?


Versa-Pod with the HK adapter.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:58:58 AM EDT
Well since they got this narrowed down to G3/HK91....
What about FAL vs G3? I'm sure there is another thread for this one somewhere but I am limited on my search engine.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:00:15 PM EDT
Does future value mean anything to you?> If not, grab the PTR. They are good rifles.

If you want something with some type of value beyond the usefullness, get the HK.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:05:14 PM EDT
Future value really don't mean to much to me as most of the guns that I buy I don't plan on selling nor getting rid of.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:11:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By starjammir:
Very nice looking rifle! Same with the above poster!
Maybe ARF can school me on this but what is the difference between a G3 and a HK91? A buddy of mine has a REAL G3 forsale and it looks nice but I do not know what the difference is.


M-16 vs. AR-15
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:11:36 PM EDT
G3 .
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:13:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vaquero357x2:
Originally Posted By starjammir:
Very nice looking rifle! Same with the above poster!
Maybe ARF can school me on this but what is the difference between a G3 and a HK91? A buddy of mine has a REAL G3 forsale and it looks nice but I do not know what the difference is.


M-16 vs. AR-15


Gotcha, thanks!
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:14:23 PM EDT
I have read many many times the PTR is of higher quality then a real HK, on this board and many others. I have both and it's a toss up, both are top quatity.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:14:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Originally Posted By Aggie_Gunner:
Originally Posted By starjammir:
Very nice looking rifle! Same with the above poster!
Maybe ARF can school me on this but what is the difference between a G3 and a HK91? A buddy of mine has a REAL G3 forsale and it looks nice but I do not know what the difference is.


I've always used the terms interchangeably... It is my understanding that "G3" is just the military moniker for the HK91. Like the "G1" was the FN-FAL... I could be wrong though.

- AG


G3 is the proper name for the military rifle. HK 91, 93, 94, whatever... is the name given for the HK produced imports (and possible German exports to other countries), be they semi or not. The Portugese produced semi imports were called the G3S. The Greek ones were probably called something else...

The G1 was the name given to the Belgian produced FAL in German service. FN denied Germany a license to produce the FAL, which was motivation to re-grab the CETME and modify it slightly into the G3.

Springfield Armory imported the Greek rifles, SAR3 and the SAR8. No experience with the PTR91 but have owned '91s and 41s and have never been disappointed with fit/finish/accuracy and robustness. If you have the extra $$$ spend the money on the HK, it will always hold a premium over the PTR
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:14:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
I have read many many times the PTR is of higher quality then a real HK, on this board and many others. I have both and it's a toss up, both are top quatity.


Are they worth the extra $$ though or is the $$ better spent on ammo?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:18:21 PM EDT
What is the draw to these rifles over an FAL? It seems they cost about they same if you're purchasing complete rifles. I only understood desire for G3's when kits were cheap for the home builder. To me they're unergonomic and odd shaped. I've only fired one a couple times myself.

I don't mean to derail the thread, I'm just curious since there seems to be a lot of G3 proponents here. What do you like about them?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:20:22 PM EDT
No real draw over a FAL. I love the FAL and do not own one yet. The same buddy of mine with the G3 has a FAL and I have shot that thing a few times and just love it, hell its the right arm of the free world right?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:20:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:24:05 PM EDT
I have a HK and would recommend it but if you can find one of these PTR's with a HK profile barrel I'd go for it. JDL seems to make any issues right and the only thing that kept me from even considering a PTR is the heavy ass barrel on an already heavy rifle. I saw the HK profile barrel model that CDNN has for sale in their last catalog. Check it out.

CMS
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:24:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 12:25:26 PM EDT by AcidGambit]
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By myfakename:
If you have the funds, get the HK. It will hold its' value better and will have all HK parts.


Agree 100%


Yup, they are overpriced and were back in the day, but I'd get the HK.

I prefer the FAL (DS Arms or FN).
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:29:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
What is the draw to these rifles over an FAL? It seems they cost about they same if you're purchasing complete rifles. I only understood desire for G3's when kits were cheap for the home builder. To me they're unergonomic and odd shaped. I've only fired one a couple times myself.

I don't mean to derail the thread, I'm just curious since there seems to be a lot of G3 proponents here. What do you like about them?


Well they used to be quite a bit cheaper than the DSA fals at various points, not sure about now.

I don't know many people that have done the home build on G3's vs FALs since the G3 is way harder to build compared to a FAL.

Really I think the FAL and the G3 are pretty close.
The plusses compared to a FAL IMO:
Accuracy/sights
Very easy to swap parts and customize (esp compared to a FAL or even an AR).
Better (IMO) recoil impulse if they are properly setup.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:49:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
What is the draw to these rifles over an FAL? It seems they cost about they same if you're purchasing complete rifles. I only understood desire for G3's when kits were cheap for the home builder. To me they're unergonomic and odd shaped. I've only fired one a couple times myself.

I don't mean to derail the thread, I'm just curious since there seems to be a lot of G3 proponents here. What do you like about them?


I've found the G3 to be slightly more accurate. Beyond that it's simply a matter of personal preference.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:52:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 12:55:00 PM EDT by Chris_1522]
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:01:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By swede1986:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
What is the draw to these rifles over an FAL? It seems they cost about they same if you're purchasing complete rifles. I only understood desire for G3's when kits were cheap for the home builder. To me they're unergonomic and odd shaped. I've only fired one a couple times myself.

I don't mean to derail the thread, I'm just curious since there seems to be a lot of G3 proponents here. What do you like about them?


I've found the G3 to be slightly more accurate. Beyond that it's simply a matter of personal preference.


G3 mags are also way cheaper.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:16:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Harlikwin:
Originally Posted By swede1986:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
What is the draw to these rifles over an FAL? It seems they cost about they same if you're purchasing complete rifles. I only understood desire for G3's when kits were cheap for the home builder. To me they're unergonomic and odd shaped. I've only fired one a couple times myself.

I don't mean to derail the thread, I'm just curious since there seems to be a lot of G3 proponents here. What do you like about them?


I've found the G3 to be slightly more accurate. Beyond that it's simply a matter of personal preference.


G3 mags are also way cheaper.

Hah, you ain't kidding there.

G3 or Cetme builds were quite popular when kits were cheap, maybe not here, but this isn't a build oriented forum. Weaponeer, Homegunsmith, etc, were churning out G3s almost as fast as AKs for a while.

You think the recoil impulse is better? I always thought they were a bit stiff compared to a gas gun.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:28:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kuraki:

Originally Posted By Harlikwin:
Originally Posted By swede1986:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
What is the draw to these rifles over an FAL? It seems they cost about they same if you're purchasing complete rifles. I only understood desire for G3's when kits were cheap for the home builder. To me they're unergonomic and odd shaped. I've only fired one a couple times myself.

I don't mean to derail the thread, I'm just curious since there seems to be a lot of G3 proponents here. What do you like about them?


I've found the G3 to be slightly more accurate. Beyond that it's simply a matter of personal preference.


G3 mags are also way cheaper.

Hah, you ain't kidding there.

G3 or Cetme builds were quite popular when kits were cheap, maybe not here, but this isn't a build oriented forum. Weaponeer, Homegunsmith, etc, were churning out G3s almost as fast as AKs for a while.

You think the recoil impulse is better? I always thought they were a bit stiff compared to a gas gun.


Like I said, I really can't comment on the builds, never built a G3 mainly due to all the welding required. Other than that I have taken them apart to bare parts before.

Actually on properly built one with the correct gap I'd say its better than a FAL for me.
There are ALOT of misbuilt guns out there mainly by century, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was by home-smiths either. And some of the century's recoil I've shot was horrible due to the bolt gap being wrong.
Same thing with the "hard" cocking on some guns, you should be able to do it really easily, if not then your cokcing handle support tube/pin is out of spec.

Anyhow, not to hijack the thread, the JLD guns are built right AFAIK.



Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:34:09 PM EDT
Basically the HK91 is a Porsche made in the Porsche factory in Germany. The PTR 91 is a Porsche design made in America by General Motors.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:38:15 PM EDT
If you buy the HK, just remember.

HK really, down deep, hates you.



Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:38:22 PM EDT
I picked up a PRT-91 SC. I don't have a range report on it yet

This is what mine looks like. (not my pic)



Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:51:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
If you buy the HK, just remember.

HK really, down deep, hates you.





Its because we stole Ernie the Elf from them. He was one of the Oberdorf elves and we abducted him to make cookies.. Thats really why they do hate us
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:55:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 2:00:58 PM EDT by Schadenfreuda]

Originally Posted By starjammir:
I just am unsure if the real HK is worth the extra cost. I have been liquidating my collection of firearms I do not use much to buy a nice toy for myself. I have read that the PTR is a very nice gun and accurate though. The CETME is out of the question, I will not own a Century Arms weapon.

You can get a "contract" G3/91 which is ALL of the same Hk quality and made on the exact same dies/specs as a German G3/91.

Portugal has the FMP. I used to have one, and it was perfect...and half the price of the Hk Brand.

BTW...Let's talk about how far a G3/91/variant will eject it's brass!

My old one used to shoot brass about 30', at about 2 o'clock to the shooting position...Little bastards would whirly-bird way the hell out there.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 2:01:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Schadenfreuda:

Originally Posted By starjammir:
I just am unsure if the real HK is worth the extra cost. I have been liquidating my collection of firearms I do not use much to buy a nice toy for myself. I have read that the PTR is a very nice gun and accurate though. The CETME is out of the question, I will not own a Century Arms weapon.

You can get a "contract" G3/91 which is ALL of the same Hk quality and made on the exact same dies/specs as a German G3/91.

Portugal has the FMP. I used to have one, and it was perfect...and half the price of the Hk Brand.


Realistically the earlier Mars imported CETME's were quite good as well. Not the crap century turned out....
FMP is good too. But the bare receivers were imported as well, and some were home builds.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 2:02:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Schadenfreuda:

Originally Posted By starjammir:
I just am unsure if the real HK is worth the extra cost. I have been liquidating my collection of firearms I do not use much to buy a nice toy for myself. I have read that the PTR is a very nice gun and accurate though. The CETME is out of the question, I will not own a Century Arms weapon.

You can get a "contract" G3/91 which is ALL of the same Hk quality and made on the exact same dies/specs as a German G3/91.

Portugal has the FMP. I used to have one, and it was perfect...and half the price of the Hk Brand.

BTW...Let's talk about how far a G3/91/variant will eject it's brass!

My old one used to shoot brass about 30', at about 2 o'clock to the shooting position...Little bastards would whirly-bird way the hell out there.


Thats the added advantage in a close in firefight, the secondary projectile you get
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