You mean like this? (Along with a Steyr Imported FN 50.00...  

Where is that drooly animation when I need it?

Thats the guy who abducted Ernie the Elf from oberdorf... He is in fact why HK hates us...

My HK91 that I've owned for over 25 years and have fired God knows how many rounds through without ONE SINGLE MALFUNCTION.

Your malfunction is mismatched furniture...  It's like white slacks after Labor Day...

Got to get one, of each.

I picked up the same rifle about a month ago...you are going to really like it.  Mine won't run any of the 500 rounds of radway I have stored up, not enough power in those rounds and it half cycles.  



But damn is it accurate and love the built in top rail.



 

Having had both in My grubby little hands. I still own a PTR-91 and the HK is sold to someone who thinks those 2 letters are worth $1,000 more . shooting then there is no difference

You heard wrong!

Is it still accidental if you hits the dirt in front of your target when you're getting you sights lined up? My friend and I both had a couple of "early" discharges. The nice thing is you can set the first shot then it goes back to normal semi-automatic operation. The work was about $300, but it became a completely different rifle. The accuracy comment I made was due to the thicker barrel, the groups don't expand as much when the barrel heats up.

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Yup, light triggers on semi's is not a good idea because it can easily lead to a version of bump firing.  It's simply too easy to re-pull the trigger after the reset.  The greater the recoil, the more likely you'll have the issue, and more likely that the rifle will be pointed over the berm and send the next round over.

This rifle has an incredibly light trigger.  My counter to that is to always use the safety until ready to shoot.  Being bolt action, there's obviously no danger after the round is fired.

I've handled both, I bought the HK but I had other reasons not quality related, my Dads 91 was the first firearm I ever remember seeing when I was 4 years old.


I think a PTR would serve you just fine but IMO they aren't on par with the HK.


I know PTR is using plastic lowers now, that alone would probably keep me from buying one. That could be fixed by buying a metal lower and installing it though.

The polymer lower has worked out well for that Austrian firearm company...I forget the name.


Is the PTR barrel, and therfore the rifle, heavier than an HK-91, i.e. is it more muzzle heavy?

Hot damn I found it!  WTS gives you a warranty and lists the work done. I got the set trigger w/contoured trigger, cost $191.00 (w/shipping). The trigger was reduced from 10 lbs to 4.5/2.5 lbs and creep was reduced to .03". I got it 3 years ago so my numbers got fuzzy, but I got it straightened out now.

For those of you who don't like the navy lowers, complete steel lowers can be had for a $125 I think off the internet. Better doublecheck though in case my numbers are off again.

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Yes, definitely...

I used to work with a Navy SEAL named Joe Hawes, he told me to basically forget the FAL get a 91, so I did.

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What is wrong with the CETME my two has never gave me any problems that I can not fix plus I get 1inch groups at a 100 yrds with mine              

Go for the HK91.

Looks more like a 2*3 group...  However, that's good if you did it with irons.

Century CETME's get a bad rap (and deserve one) because many were very badly assembled.  Cocking tubes welded on crooked, failure to clean, ground bolts,  before finishing, etc...

This thread is relevant to my interests..............

Your first mistake was to buy anything MFI...  The cocking handle they use on the PTR sucks...or at least the ones I've seen.  It's an easy fix though with a $5 new version HK cocking handle from RobertRTG and about 10 mins of work doing the swap.  Now that they're offering the PTR with a HK profile barrel I might just have to check one out as a shooter.  I love my HK and as I said before...have been kept from buying a PTR-91 because of the heavy profile barrel.  Time to start looking around now!

CMS

I don't really mind a heavy barrel as it is probably mostly going to be a bench shooter anyways, I'm not going to lug it through the jungle of Africa.

Tag.

Yeah MFI stuff has a mixed reputation, its definately cheap though compared to B&T or HK original. As for sheetmetal, its true, but it holds up pretty well.

Well if you want a G3 type rifle then I would spend the extra $$ for a real, made in W. Germany, HK91.

I've owned 3 HK91 over the years and they were all 100% good to go!
I hear that the Portugese and Greek made semi auto G3s that came over before the 89 ban
are also very good too.

However, I still prefer the FAL over the HK due to the superior ergonomics. Both are very, very reliable.

One question to ask yourself is are you planning to modify it at all?  I bought true HK and now I have mixed feelings, I've considered on a few occasions HK51ing it but I can't bring myself to alter such a glorious rifle.  I have a couple of friends with PTRs and they are fine weapons, but if you're a true HK snob there really is no substitute.

There are still decent deals to be had, I got mine unfired with fixed and collapsible stocks (collapsible sucks btw, try to get a cheek weld on that), wide fore with bipod, and a handful of mags for under 2k.  

Either way, I don't think you'll be disappointed in your purchase, aside from questionable ergonomics, it's one of my favorite shooters, and you'll be hard pressed to find a more reliable gun than a true HK91/G3.

I built my SW3 from an hk parts kit and new man match barrel, I have never had any malfunctions and I have shot nearly every type of ammo through it.  IMHO the hk91/g3/sw3 et al are great weapons.  I do however plan to build a DSA FAL in the near future.

I wrote PTR an email yesterday asking why a PTR over a real G3 and got this...

The question that you asked is very broad, I will try to explain the advantages while being concise.  When comparing a PTR to a G3 or HK91, the first thing you will see is the quality of the fit and finish of the PTR.  The welds are beautiful, everything fits tightly and it has a very nice and even powder-coated finish.  The originals, though they performed well for what they were intended, did not have great welds(they didn’t crack, but didn’t look good either) and the finish was a lower quality(which was fine because they were intended to be battle rifles, not Precision Target Rifles).  As far as comparing parts, the PTR’s all have a chromoly, match grade, bull barrels made by Thompson/Center.  The G3/HK91 came with standard, non-match grade barrels that were tapered to be thinner towards the front(inevitably allowing warping and barrel whip over time).  The PTR’s have a milled aluminum hanguard that is already drilled and tapped to accept picatinny rails for accessories such as a pistol fore grip, tactical laser, tactical flashlight, bipod etc.  The G3/HK91 have a standard hand guard that is not able to accept any accessories at all.  With the PTR’s, we offer a welded picatinny scope/optics mount on most of our models.  The advantage of a welded scope/optics mount is that it will never shift or cant, meaning you will not have to keep readjusting your scope.  With the G3/HK91 you have to go with either an original German claw mount($150-$300) or another style mount like the B&T mount($170-$200), the drawback is that with the way they attach to the receiver, over time they will loosen up and you will have to keep tightening them and readjusting your scope.  We also have our own proprietary way of fluting and chambering the barrels.  We run a very tight chamber that is the actual size of the round.  The G3/HK91 had a chamber that was a decent amount wider than the rounds themselves, which did not yield great accuracy.  They shot a 3”-4” group at 100 yards, which was fine for them being a battle rifle, because they were intended to shoot a body mass.  The PTR’s are precision target rifles and are intended to shoot for accuracy, not necessity.  They yield a .5”-1.5” group at 100 yards.  This is an amazing improvement compared to the G3/HK91.  We have also made some internal tweaks(like the tighter chamber) to reduce the amount of felt recoil when firing the rifle.  If you were to shoot the PTR, G3 and HK91 side by side, you would see that the PTR kicks about 30% less than the others.  This is really nice when you take how your shoulder feels after a long day of shooting into account,  a .308 round packs a punch.  When you look at it, PTR took a good design and improved on it to make the best possible rifle you can buy in this style of action.  Our rifles are more easily equipped with accessories, more accurate, have less felt recoil and a better fit and finish.  That’s not even the best part though, it’s the price.  When you compare the price of a PTR to an original G3 or HK91, you will see the PTR’s are roughly half the cost of an original and are newly manufactured with a warranty.  This means that you get a brand new, better rifle, for half of what you would pay for an original 26-55 year old G3/HK91 with an undetermined amount of rounds already shot through it(it could need a barrel replacement).  If you have any more questions, please let me know.



Best Regards,

Chris Petersen

Marketing Associate

Quite a bit of marketing BS in that mail IMO...

Barrel, I'm sure their barrels from an accuracy POV are better than what came on the original HK91's but profile IMO has little to do with it. The G3SG1 sniper variant used the same barrels as the rest of them and they grouped about what they are claiming for their rifles.

Chamber, again from an accuracy pov its probably a bit better but not a whole lot and you do loose some reliability (which they have had problems with in the past).

Accuracy, While I've seen a few HK91's shoot 3-4" groups thats usually more like the century guns not the HK builds which ususally shoot ~2" maybe better depending on the ammo, and I call BS on one of their rack grade rifles shooting .5" groups or a reasonable round count consistently.

Recoil: I'm not sure how they get 30% less recoil, unless the rifle weighs 30% more.

Scope mounts: The welded rail does have those advantages, that being said the B&T systems I've used have not ever loosened up, and the claw mounts, I have had those go a bit loose but that was after YEARS of use, and was quick and easy to fix.

It is true its a new rifle, and they are good and accurate rifles but most of this email is over the top.

My Ptr 91. n i b mft 2003

1 muzzle crown
2 no flash hider
3 all metal

http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt300/renonow/GRFS/IMG_0012-2.jpg
http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt300/renonow/GRFS/IMG_0015-2.jpg
http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt300/renonow/GRFS/IMG_0020-1.jpg

you have to decide if you want a shooter or a collector.

i have a really hard time slapping down 3K for a semi-auto firearm, when 3K already has you in the area of several transferable SMG's. and i'll take something with a happy switch damned-near every time...

that said, i don't really know what the "going rate" is for a new condition HK 91. the GB auctions put them pretty high, but those usually aren't a good indicator of what the guns are actually going for.

They go for $1700-$1800 for average condition rifles and 10-15 mags nowadays.

CMS

The blocks are 1" inch I fired 4 rounds till I dialed it down .The one covered with the tape was one shot from my AK47

The biggest disappointment of my gun-owning life was a preban HK91.

Way, waaaaaaaaay overrated

I suggest that you get neither.

From what I hear, PTR bought a bunch of HK tooling.





 

The G3SG1 weren't off-the-shelf G3s either.  All the rifles came from the factory with at test group, something like the top 1% most accurate of the factory rifles became G3SG1s.



 

If you can afford the H&K get it. If not, the PTR is G2G. My friend has had both and the he liked the H&K better, but the PTR is a good shooter. The H&K does hold it's value.

That advertisement is a bit dated.  I, uh.... I fixed it.

Any idea where I could find that print?

I love my PTR-91K, but the barrel thing is rough. Someone mentioned that PTR is using a gov't profile barrel now, is that true? I'd deff be down to buy another!

The emal was deff pure marketing. All of the marketing points were just that. While he is also right about them, he exaggerates and misleads a litle bit, especially about the scope mount coming loose. I bought the MFI low pro mount, and have had zero issues. Mine loves surplus, especially radway. 147 grain is good to about 500 meters, than it gets weird. 168 grain does outstanding in my rifle, I can push it to 750 meters, but its not what i'd call an effective range for a point target. The rounds fall in about a 10X10 square.

Recoil with proper bolt gap is negligible, more than an AR, but no worse than any other .308 battle rifle. A FAL properly gassed has about the same amount. Also, HKparts sells the HK heavy buffer from time to time. It WILL CUT DOWN RECOIL, but it also reduces your wallet 30%(or about 295.00). I spent the money, now it recoils like an AK, or less. HK furniture makes it balance much better also. I've got about 3,000 rounds of Lith, Radway, Lake City, Wolf, Brown Bear, Prvi, Federal, and Winchester fired through it.

Reliability has been amazing! Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nadda. etc. etc. I waited till I fired 1500 rounds of wolf before I cleaned it. I wanted to see if it would get sluggish or stop. It wasn't even starting to when I finally broke down and cleaned it. Break down is simple, even an african rebel fighting Rhodesia could do it. Cleaning it on the other hand... Be prepared to sacrifice at least 1 T-shirt, and a lot of cleaning patches.

OP, buy one, and just replace the furniture for starters. Fire it than decide what else you wanna do. The furniture PTR gives you isn't shit, its just not original.

i sold my HK91  oh well live and learn

that being said that is one heavy ass rifle to be hauling around

As far as recoil, I have both the heavy buffer and the thick rubber recoil pad from the HK 21, its no worse than any 308 bolt gun I've fired.

This

Yes, but they still used the same exact barrel as the rest of the rifles....

I've never owned a PTR, but one of the first things I did with all my HKs was swap out the metal lower with the newer style polymer 'navy' lowers.  I don't like the metal lowers.  

If I bought a PTR, I'd swap out the handguard with an HK part, but other than that leave it alone.  At least the finish on the PTRs is a nice flat black.  I never liked the blue-grey finish that came on most of the HK91s and 93s.  Purely cosmetic, but still I prefer the black.

I think they got their tooling from the HK-licensed factory in Pakistan. POF I think it is called.



 

Yeah, and they accuracy was more a fluke than a design intention.  If you break it down, we're talking about comparing a factory produced match barrel vs the top 1% of thousands of barrels made.  Taking the most accurate 1% and using that to claim that all the barrels are that accurate is disingenuous at best.





 

I've seen that tooling, and it is HK tooling it says so in big white letters across the top of the machine.  I have a picture somewhere.





 

I think I read somewhere that they got the tooling from INDEP in Portugul.