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Posted: 9/6/2010 3:11:52 PM EDT
Years ago when Glock first offered the model 22 I bought one. I shot it a few times then traded it off for something else. I own a few other Glocks in 9mm and .45 and never had any problems with any of them.
However, I have read all the kaboom horror stories and seen the pics of the carnage. Question is, are they warranted and based on fact or has the internet enabled the few stories to be blown out of proportion.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:13:01 PM EDT
Do not shoot cast lead bullet reloads and you should be fine. They do recommend periodic replacement of the recoil springs though.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:13:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By the_great_snag:
Do not shoot cast lead bullet reloads and you should be fine. They do recommend periodic replacement of the recoil springs though.


or reloads period
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:15:13 PM EDT
Also, don't load the same round repeatedly.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:17:33 PM EDT
I'm considering getting a 23 and a 27, any feedback on these particular models ?
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:19:27 PM EDT
Oh, it's a real problem alright. Not "blown out of proportion" by any means.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:20:52 PM EDT
Dont shoot lead bullets and if your going to reload dont load them hot. If you do that you will be fine....
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:21:51 PM EDT
I had a G22 for a long time, put a few thousand rounds threw it and never had a single problem.
Not one FTF, not one tiny little issue.

Its a great gun.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:22:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By macro:
I had a G22 for a long time, put a few thousand rounds threw it and never had a single problem.
Not one FTF, not one tiny little issue.

Its a great gun.


why did you throw it? part of torture testing or something?
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:23:21 PM EDT
Internet bullshit.

18K rounds through my Glock 22 and nearly 5K through my G27.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:26:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 3:27:19 PM EDT by m4pointman]

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
I'm considering getting a 23 and a 27, any feedback on these particular models ?

Our issue mod. 23s used to have the bad habit of disassembling themselves during firing. Glock sent replacement slide lock springs that were beefier and that seems to have fixed the problem for the most part but occasionally one comes apart in quals. Don't know what generation these guns are but we fix guns every qual due to broken parts. .40 cartridge seems to be hard on these little guns.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:27:31 PM EDT
Occasionaly...a G22 blows up. Seems to be an out of battery thing....but high pressure reloads and factory ammo have long been suspected of the cause...as has bullet set-back to cause the high pressure.

Part of the issue is likely the chamber design...and probably the bulk of the issue is ammo related.

Lot's of internet info about the issue...it ain't a myth, and not neccesarily confined to Glocks, or the G22. Other handguns have ripped in a spectacular manner too.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:28:17 PM EDT
It's mostly internet and arfcom BS perpetrated my 1911 fans. The 40 Glock 22 is one of the most widely issued handguns in service with law enforcement agencies. The fact that you hear anything about this at all attests more to the number of Glocks in use than the actual number of incidents. By your 40 Cal Glock and don't look back.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:28:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 3:30:18 PM EDT by ED_P]
I don't trust .40 in any pistol.

I had a S&W TS4013 for a while. Had the best trigger of any non-target gun I ever owned, but after a couple years of picking up shells and seeing just how much more they bulged in any brand, than my 9mm and .45 shells, I started thinking just how much more on the edge of the envelope .40 was, pressure wise. I wanted to know if it was just my chamber for this model or gun, so I started taking range samples of other .40 shells and noticed many had the same, very prominent bulge.

After a while I decided I'd be better off with 9mm and .45, which work fine. And they're much more pleasant to shoot.


Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:38:01 PM EDT
It is very real, this is/was my glock 27.

The best way to prevent Kabooms is to not shoot your glock, (that is what my gun smith told me)
I really thing that if a manufacture can't make a gun safely shoot commercal ammo it should not be sold.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:38:31 PM EDT
I'm considering a .40 and the G23 is in my top 3 picks. No final decision has been made.

It is my understanding that the 'kaboom' issue has to due with using brass which has been reloaded multiple times. Keep track of your loadings and don't load for Bear, and you should be fine. I don't consider it enough of an issue to dissuade me from buying one...yet. I will be doing more research before buying.

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:41:31 PM EDT
Private email.

If you eliminate the use of reloads, a couple of police departments using low quality loads (meaning factory defective), and failure to clean weapons, the answer is very few kabooms. Some years ago, there was a small run of defective frames and the problem was corrected.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:42:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By para_frame:
It is very real, this is/was my glock 27.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/paraframe/busted_glock7.jpg
The best way to prevent Kabooms is to not shoot your glock, (that is what my gun smith told me)
I really thing that if a manufacture can't make a gun safely shoot commercal ammo it should not be sold.


What round caused this? Reload? If so, how many reloadings did you have on the piece of brass?



Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:47:01 PM EDT
When people go out for dinner and the service is great, Food great and price resonable they don't seem to go home and post about it.

So usually you just see the posts where people have problems.

Issues are real and the internet is the force multiplyer.

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:49:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PaperStreet:
Originally Posted By para_frame:
It is very real, this is/was my glock 27.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/paraframe/busted_glock7.jpg
The best way to prevent Kabooms is to not shoot your glock, (that is what my gun smith told me)
I really thing that if a manufacture can't make a gun safely shoot commercal ammo it should not be sold.


What round caused this? Reload? If so, how many reloadings did you have on the piece of brass?



supposedly new, unfired brass with a 180 JRN reloaded at about the slowest i could still get the gun to cycle, brought the gun used from an old man who said he only shot 50 rounds of WWB though it. It had probably less then 1000 rounds trough it when it made me regret sinning to the great John Mosses Browning.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:49:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GseriesFal:
It's mostly internet and arfcom BS perpetrated my 1911 fans. The 40 Glock 22 is one of the most widely issued handguns in service with law enforcement agencies. The fact that you hear anything about this at all attests more to the number of Glocks in use than the actual number of incidents. By your 40 Cal Glock and don't look back.



1911 means the year 1911 vs 1980 something.

More Glocks? Not likely.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:51:30 PM EDT
Real problems with the 22 when running a weapon light.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:55:18 PM EDT
I'll probably get flamed for this, but the .40 cartridge itself is a poor choice IMHO. It doesn't really do anything that a 9mm won't do pretty much as well.

It was the answer to the question the FBI asked in the late 80's, which was how to get mid-level 10mm power in a 9mm-sized weapon. S&W and Glock both rushed models to market as soon as the 40 cartridge was introduced. All the .40 is is a 10mm chopped down, similar to the difference between 38 and 357 or 44 special and 44 magnum.

The original Smith guns have long vanished from the market and the Glocks have seen several upgrades to improve their performance with .40, due to its being wildly popular in LE circles for whatever reasons.

I have owned a G23 and shot factory ammo through it with no issues. I would not hesitate to buy a Glock if I wanted a .40, but to me, it's a caliber that does nothing my 9mm won't do more cheaply and reliably.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:57:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GseriesFal:
It's mostly internet and arfcom BS perpetrated my 1911 fans. The 40 Glock 22 is one of the most widely issued handguns in service with law enforcement agencies. The fact that you hear anything about this at all attests more to the number of Glocks in use than the actual number of incidents. By your 40 Cal Glock and don't look back.


Beat me to it. The sheer number of .40 Glocks out there means that there will be more issues for the Glock haters to write about.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:58:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By para_frame:
Originally Posted By PaperStreet:
Originally Posted By para_frame:
It is very real, this is/was my glock 27.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/paraframe/busted_glock7.jpg
The best way to prevent Kabooms is to not shoot your glock, (that is what my gun smith told me)
I really thing that if a manufacture can't make a gun safely shoot commercial ammo it should not be sold.


What round caused this? Reload? If so, how many reloadings did you have on the piece of brass?



supposedly new, unfired brass with a 180 JRN reloaded at about the slowest I could still get the gun to cycle, brought the gun used from an old man who said he only shot 50 rounds of WWB though it. It had probably less then 1000 rounds trough it when it made me regret sinning to the great John Mosses Browning.


Just to clarify, you loaded your load in unfired brass? Just making sure since you mentioned unfired brass and reloaded. I assume you used 'reloaded' meaning you were the loader.

Either way, that seems to contradict what I have heard. Most of what I read has dealt with multiple (4 to 5) reloadings on the same piece of brass. If you had issues on a new or once fired piece, that changes things.

More research is definitely necessary.

Thanks.




Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:58:40 PM EDT
Had a 23 for years with no issues whatsoever. Bought it used in decent condition, no idea how heavily used it was really, besides alot of slide and barrel wear.

If Glock didn't have full faith in the product it wouldn't leave store shelves.

The fact that the Kaboomer up there ^ posted that he used "supposedly *whatever* brass" in his reloads means he had no idea what he was doing and probably shouldn't be reloading in the first place.

Great gun, I just didn't like how snappy it was and went to 9mm.

And as far as the cast lead bullets, what the fuck is the point of using those anyways?
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:59:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By the_great_snag:
I'll probably get flamed for this, but the .40 cartridge itself is a poor choice IMHO. It doesn't really do anything that a 9mm won't do pretty much as well.

It was the answer to the question the FBI asked in the late 80's, which was how to get mid-level 10mm power in a 9mm-sized weapon. S&W and Glock both rushed models to market as soon as the 40 cartridge was introduced. All the .40 is is a 10mm chopped down, similar to the difference between 38 and 357 or 44 special and 44 magnum.

The original Smith guns have long vanished from the market and the Glocks have seen several upgrades to improve their performance with .40, due to its being wildly popular in LE circles for whatever reasons.

I have owned a G23 and shot factory ammo through it with no issues. I would not hesitate to buy a Glock if I wanted a .40, but to me, it's a caliber that does nothing my 9mm won't do more cheaply and reliably.
Yup good 124 and 147gr 9mm hollow points are roughly as effective as the better 180gr .40 loads

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:01:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
Oh, it's a real problem alright. Not "blown out of proportion" by any means.


Its definitely blown out of proportion compared with the number of cases and the number of Glock pistols out there.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:03:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PaperStreet:

Just to clarify, you loaded your load in unfired brass? Just making sure since you mentioned unfired brass and reloaded. I assume you used 'reloaded' meaning you were the loader.

Either way, that seems to contradict what I have heard. Most of what I read has dealt with multiple (4 to 5) reloadings on the same piece of brass. If you had issues on a new or once fired piece, that changes things.

More research is definitely necessary.

Thanks.



Yes, new brass with me being the reloader. After one load all my .40 brass was used only for my S&W 410, I thought by doing so I could prevent a Kaboom, I was wrong.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:05:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By the_great_snag:
I'll probably get flamed for this, but the .40 cartridge itself is a poor choice IMHO. It doesn't really do anything that a 9mm won't do pretty much as well.

It was the answer to the question the FBI asked in the late 80's, which was how to get mid-level 10mm power in a 9mm-sized weapon. S&W and Glock both rushed models to market as soon as the 40 cartridge was introduced. All the .40 is is a 10mm chopped down, similar to the difference between 38 and 357 or 44 special and 44 magnum.

The original Smith guns have long vanished from the market and the Glocks have seen several upgrades to improve their performance with .40, due to its being wildly popular in LE circles for whatever reasons.

I have owned a G23 and shot factory ammo through it with no issues. I would not hesitate to buy a Glock if I wanted a .40, but to me, it's a caliber that does nothing my 9mm won't do more cheaply and reliably.
Yup good 124 and 147gr 9mm hollow points are roughly as effective as the better 180gr .40 loads



I should add though that this was NOT the case in the late 80's. At that time 9mm loads were seriously lacking in stopping power. It would be unfair the 9mm vs .40 discussion not to state that up front.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:06:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By krpind:
Originally Posted By GseriesFal:
It's mostly internet and arfcom BS perpetrated my 1911 fans. The 40 Glock 22 is one of the most widely issued handguns in service with law enforcement agencies. The fact that you hear anything about this at all attests more to the number of Glocks in use than the actual number of incidents. By your 40 Cal Glock and don't look back.



1911 means the year 1911 vs 1980 something.

More Glocks? Not likely.


So you believe that every agency that bought a 1911 between 1911 and 2010 still has that pistol in service today? There may have been more 1911's produced than Glocks but I would venture to bet there are more Glocks currently in service and being used today. I'm sure if you looked at the statistics for KBs you would find that the percentage was about even for any pistol in relation to it's amount of use.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:06:42 PM EDT
Glock Armorers school the instructor mentioned that the early G22s did have a problem with the locking block. Don't remember the exact details.

As already said, no lead bullets in a factory barrel.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:06:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By para_frame:
Originally Posted By PaperStreet:

Just to clarify, you loaded your load in unfired brass? Just making sure since you mentioned unfired brass and reloaded. I assume you used 'reloaded' meaning you were the loader.

Either way, that seems to contradict what I have heard. Most of what I read has dealt with multiple (4 to 5) reloadings on the same piece of brass. If you had issues on a new or once fired piece, that changes things.

More research is definitely necessary.

Thanks.



Yes, new brass with me being the reloader. After one load all my .40 brass was used only for my S&W 410, I thought by doing so I could prevent a Kaboom, I was wrong.


He said "SUPPOSEDLY" new, unfired brass. It means he is either full of crap or he wasn't certain of his reloading materials, which also makes me highly skeptical. Where did you buy your "SUPPOSEDLY" new brass? A gun show? Was the seller dressed in realtree and carrying a 1911? "Yeah hoss! Never been fired cerrr-teee-friend brand spankin new yeehaw!"
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:08:05 PM EDT

I shoot a G23 that I bought used with no problems. I use only new factory ammo as is stipulated by glock. Part of the case is not fully supported by the barrel and from what I uderstand, using reloaded cases that have been weakened in the area where the case is not supported, could lead to a kaboom.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:12:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By matty-lou:
Had a 23 for years with no issues whatsoever. Bought it used in decent condition, no idea how heavily used it was really, besides alot of slide and barrel wear.

If Glock didn't have full faith in the product it wouldn't leave store shelves.

The fact that the Kaboomer up there ^ posted that he used "supposedly *whatever* brass" in his reloads means he had no idea what he was doing and probably shouldn't be reloading in the first place.

Great gun, I just didn't like how snappy it was and went to 9mm.

And as far as the cast lead bullets, what the fuck is the point of using those anyways?


I bought the brass at a gun show from a relatively well respected dealer in my area, the brass was kind of old looking but looked unfired and he stated it was unfired, I ran a few shells through a resizing die but the 5 or so I ran through where dropping in with no resistence so I strongly suspected they where new (or much less likely, the respected dealer was lieing and ran fired brass through a sizer before he sold them to me to make a few bucks and wipe out his reputation) I have reloaded tens of thousands of rounds without a single screw up and i do not appreciate you implying that I am an incompedent reloader.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:22:19 PM EDT
Bought my Gen3 23 back in April, and have something like 1300 rounds through her with no problems whatsoever. Great pistol, great buy.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:37:48 PM EDT
I don't like Glocks. I personally think they are no better than a Lorcin in quality due to the number of failures out there. But, putting all of my personal feelings aside I will say this.

Over all, the Glock is a reliable gun but the weakness is in three very critical areas. The first and most common is the unsupported chamber. The lower part of the rear of the chamber is relieved/radiused for more reliable feeding. This is common in most of the larger bore handguns. For some reason, this is a severe issue in the Glock. I believe the radius cut in the .40 caliber is too excessive for the cartridge given the problems with the brass used in the first decade or so of use. A lot of that brass is still out there and it is a problem.

The second problem is the design of the rifling. Being that the Glock doesn't use traditional rifling but uses a polyganal (forgive the spelling) bore, it is more sensitive to pressure increases from leading. Combine this with the unsupported chamber and you have a nice recipe for a Kb.

The third and least known problem with the Glock design is the steel slide rail reinforcements in the frame. There just isn't enough steel there to make them sturdy enough. They can and do flex under load from firing. Most of the time, this isn't an issue but there were a run of Glocks made in the 90's that had failures in these reinforcements.

Now, again, I'm taking all personal feelings out of this. There are a lot of reasons I do not like and will not shoot Glocks. The above represent documented safety issues only. There are a few resources on the web that have documented failures and Glock's responses or lack there of. The most commonly known is Dean Spiers site... Glock kb's

If you google. "Glock kb" you'll find video's and photo's and documentation on the issue.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:40:26 PM EDT
Don't shoot lead bullets, don't shoot reloads, don't chamber the same round repeatedly to avoid bullet set-back, and change your recoil spring every few thousand rounds and it should be fine. The .40 really won't do anything a good 9mm round won't do, but it does come with the bonuses of snappier recoil and increased wear and tear on the gun.

Two guys from my agency dumped a guy with a shotgun a few years ago- one had a Glock 19, the other a Glock 22. Both the 9mm and .40 rounds penetrated plenty deep, opened like they were supposed to and did plenty of damage. And nobody could tell the difference between the 9mm wound channels and the .40 wound channels. IMHO, no reason to pick the .40 over a good 9mm, but if .40 is your cup of tea, go for it.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:42:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:44:04 PM EDT
You just gotta be sure you are Professhunal enough to handle the Glock Fotay
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:44:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrus-the-virus:
Originally Posted By the_great_snag:
Do not shoot cast lead bullet reloads and you should be fine. They do recommend periodic replacement of the recoil springs though.


or reloads period

Bullshit, I've fired thousand and thousands of cast reloads through stock Glock barrels without a single problem other than having to clean them more often.

OP, it's 10% real and 90% internet bullshit spread like the stinky crap above.

If you want to know more come to the Handguns subforum where the GD comedians and bullshitters don't go.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:49:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 5:41:43 PM EDT by Waldo]
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:51:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By 3rdpig:
If you want to know more come to the Handguns subforum where the GD comedians and bullshitters don't go.


Mine blew up in 1992. I've still got the letter from that miserable fuckstick, Paul J. Jannuzzo.




welcome to the club.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:04:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:09:33 PM EDT
I have one going on 6K now, no problems except for 2 mags I need to replace the springs in. The problem of kabooms is real, it does happen for a few different reasons. Older glock .40s didnt have as much case support as they do now, rounds being cycled constantly through the chamber could have bullet setback with increased pressure. Also lead is not a good idea in the polygonal rifling along with crappy gunshow reloads.

It happens but its by no means a common thing. Buy one and enjoy.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:26:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GseriesFal:
It's mostly internet and arfcom BS perpetrated my 1911 fans. The 40 Glock 22 is one of the most widely issued handguns in service with law enforcement agencies. The fact that you hear anything about this at all attests more to the number of Glocks in use than the actual number of incidents. By your 40 Cal Glock and don't look back.



This.
I've never had problems with Glocks.
If you want to shoot lead, for whatever that reason is, just buy an after market barrel and shoot anything.


Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:33:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MrFuzzybunny:
Originally Posted By GseriesFal:
It's mostly internet and arfcom BS perpetrated my 1911 fans. The 40 Glock 22 is one of the most widely issued handguns in service with law enforcement agencies. The fact that you hear anything about this at all attests more to the number of Glocks in use than the actual number of incidents. By your 40 Cal Glock and don't look back.



This.
I've never had problems with Glocks.
If you want to shoot lead, for whatever that reason is, just buy an after market barrel and shoot anything.




Yes, of course, all the real documented cases are all part of a vast 1911 wing conspiracy.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:35:29 PM EDT
I have been present for two kabooms.

One in 1998 an one in 2004. Both .40 cal. Both with factory ammo.

I can't prove it, but I think there is a design flaw in the Glock 40's.
The Glock fanboys and Glock themselves won't admit it. But where there's smoke there's fire.
I'd really like to see Glock's internal data on kabooms. Might make for some interesting reading.



Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:36:52 PM EDT
If I were to choose a .40, I would go Sig.

If it does Kb, Sigs Slides are milled steel and beefier,

I would think that would make them a little safer.

Now if they could just get over that QC issue
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:39:49 PM EDT
Let me start with I owned a glock 22 and shot a few thousand rounds before I sold it and went to a .45 and a 9mm . based on what I was told by a glock armorer the .40 has the most problems of all Glocks. I think the whole .40 thing is blown out of proportion but I made my vote. I think the .40 has issues as a round in general. Glock has sold more than anyone so they are an easy target .
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:49:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Years ago when Glock first offered the model 22 I bought one. I shot it a few times then traded it off for something else. I own a few other Glocks in 9mm and .45 and never had any problems with any of them.
However, I have read all the kaboom horror stories and seen the pics of the carnage. Question is, are they warranted and based on fact or has the internet enabled the few stories to be blown out of proportion.


i love my 1911, and i own glocks, one of them being the 23 .40s+w, it's a gen1, and has shot very well with no issues since day 1. i've got more then 5,000 rds through it, and it still shoots like a champ. with that said, i don't reload and only shoot jacketed factory ammo.
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